Mesut Özil

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CasaStreets said:
You see, that's how Germany played it, not us. Think of who else we have had occupy that attacking midfielder position recently in a 4-5-1, which of them has been a player bad at tracking back? Scholes? Anderson? Giggs? Park?

When you play someone like Ozil there instead, who will not track back often, then what is the difference between that system and a 4-4-2 defensively?

Nothing is the answer. And yet, we play a 4-5-1 for defensive stability and ball control in the midfield, Ozil does neither. He is not the type of player who gets on the ball all the time, nor is one who tracks back well. He is a great player that doesn't fit the puzzle
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Playing Ozil in the hole would help give a lot more control. He absolutely is a player to help do that, although he like all other advanced playmakers need a Scholes or a Sweinsteiger playing the ball round in midfield and feeding him the ball in good areas.

Ultimately with Fletcher in midfield and Vidic in defence, with Valencia and Nani tracking back well, you dont have to worry too much about setting your team up defensively. Unless you're Jose Mourinho.
 
Brwned said:
If excelling for Germany in a World Cup constitutes proving yourself - presumably to be good enough for United? - then we should sign Podolski up too.
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You have a point but Podolski was gash at the 2010 world cup so that's that ;)

Your point about Ozil being lambasted for the same stuff as Berbatov doesnt really wash either given that Berbatov showed a great goal scoring pedigree at Leverkusen and Spurs yet hasnt found the net quite as regularly at United.

Ozil has never shown himself to be a goal scorer, he'd get a few with his intelligent runs but he is a playmaker pure and simple.
 
I just hope for Ozil's sake he doesn't go to Madrid, because it will be a huge backward step for his career atm. - didn't they just buy Di Maria? On top of that, they have Kaka, Ronaldo, Higuain, VdV (am I missing someone?)...but maybe they will find him a spot in their first XI by flogging off some poor chap who ends up winning the Champions League again. :lol:

Come to United son. SAF will turn you into a world beater :drool:
 
dmode said:
We should get him at all cost. Just like I said that we should get Ronaldhino after that match:
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WOW.. I just remembered how fecking great he was.. I hate Peter Kenyon for fecking this one up..
 
Brwned said:
I don't think we would've bought Berbatov if we were looking for a player who tracks back or wants to get on the ball all the time, I think we were just looking for someone who could drift into space and provide that key pass time and again.

In the toughest games when we need more ball control we could move Ozil out to the wing if need be, but as the main formation I can't see why we couldn't just go 4-2-3-1. It's a slight formation/tactics change but we've done that before with plenty of signings.
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You think we should switch to a formation where only one out of our 7 strikers plays at a time? Quite a few with lots of potential who need chances in the 1st team. Not to mention, only Rooney can be counted on to play that lone striker role with any decent return, because we don't have an established #9 type player. All the while, you would be taking this risk to abandon the formation that has almost won us 4 titles on the trot. You have to be more rational in your arguments man...

So back to my argument, we will not be abandoning the 4-4-2 for most of our games because we have designed our personnel to work with the 4-4-2. Where does Ozil fit into a 4-4-2? Left wing? To try and displace Nani? Or play second fiddle and block Park and Obertan's chances? Or would he be a second striker? But he's not really a finisher, is he? I don't understand. We play 70% of our games in a 4-4-2. Yet nobody has a concrete idea on how he would work for us in a 4-4-2... somebody, please?

Ekeke said:
Playing Ozil in the hole would help give a lot more control. He absolutely is a player to help do that, although he like all other advanced playmakers need a Scholes or a Sweinsteiger playing the ball round in midfield and feeding him the ball in good areas.

Ultimately with Fletcher in midfield and Vidic in defence, with Valencia and Nani tracking back well, you dont have to worry too much about setting your team up defensively. Unless you're Jose Mourinho.
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I am not totally sure what you're talking about? Play him as the second striker in a 4-4-2? So what happens with the 7 strikers we already have? Diouf, Macheda, Welbeck, and Hernandez will all be trying to get opportunities and already have Rooney, Berbatov, and Owen in front of them. Should we loan or sell them? They need chances.

You're second paragraph, which I assume refers to how he would fit into a 4-5-1, is crazy. You've just gone ahead and said, "play him in the attacking midfield role, but don't worry about his lack of defensive ability." We have played a 4-5-1 in the CL now for several years, with 3 CM's who all do the job defensively, and it has almost gotten us to 3 CL finals on the trot. But no, let's forget about that, feck it, just stick Ozil in there and let him sort it out!

It's frustrating to try and get you guys to seriously think about the bigger picture and the way our team is already set up to operate, because you don't want to understand it, you just want Ozil.
 
CasaStreets said:
You think we should switch to a formation where only one out of our 7 strikers plays at a time? Quite a few with lots of potential who need chances in the 1st team. Not to mention, only Rooney can be counted on to play that lone striker role with any decent return, because we don't have an established #9 type player. All the while, you would be taking this risk to abandon the formation that has almost won us 4 titles on the trot. You have to be more rational in your arguments man...

So back to my argument, we will not be abandoning the 4-4-2 for most of our games because we have designed our personnel to work with the 4-4-2. Where does Ozil fit into a 4-4-2? Left wing? To try and displace Nani? Or play second fiddle and block Park and Obertan's chances? Or would he be a second striker? But he's not really a finisher, is he? I don't understand. We play 70% of our games in a 4-4-2. Yet nobody has a concrete idea on how he would work for us in a 4-4-2... somebody, please
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I thought we played 4-2-3-1 in 06/07 and 07/08, then went 4-4-1-1 in 08/09 and only recently went back to 4-4-2, so I think the major disagreement here comes on what formation we play not how Ozil would fit in.

I think we've been moving more to a 4-3-3 gradually anyway, which if is the case then I'd imagine Sir Alex would want Anderson to play as the most advanced midfielder rather than someone like Ozil, as you said. That's just a guess though, we might not be going 4-3-3 and Sir Alex might want to go back to 4-2-3-1 so that's why I'm not ruling it out.

I understand your point but Sir Alex has been flexible with his formations over the past 5 years or so, so I don't see why you're going off the premise we'll be sticking to two very specific formations with no chance of adjustments.
 
CasaStreets said:
You think we should switch to a formation where only one out of our 7 strikers plays at a time? Quite a few with lots of potential who need chances in the 1st team. Not to mention, only Rooney can be counted on to play that lone striker role with any decent return, because we don't have an established #9 type player. All the while, you would be taking this risk to abandon the formation that has almost won us 4 titles on the trot. You have to be more rational in your arguments man...

So back to my argument, we will not be abandoning the 4-4-2 for most of our games because we have designed our personnel to work with the 4-4-2. Where does Ozil fit into a 4-4-2? Left wing? To try and displace Nani? Or play second fiddle and block Park and Obertan's chances? Or would he be a second striker? But he's not really a finisher, is he? I don't understand. We play 70% of our games in a 4-4-2. Yet nobody has a concrete idea on how he would work for us in a 4-4-2... somebody, please?



I am not totally sure what you're talking about? Play him as the second striker in a 4-4-2? So what happens with the 7 strikers we already have? Diouf, Macheda, Welbeck, and Hernandez will all be trying to get opportunities and already have Rooney, Berbatov, and Owen in front of them. Should we loan or sell them? They need chances.

You're second paragraph, which I assume refers to how he would fit into a 4-5-1, is crazy. You've just gone ahead and said, "play him in the attacking midfield role, but don't worry about his lack of defensive ability." We have played a 4-5-1 in the CL now for several years, with 3 CM's who all do the job defensively, and it has almost gotten us to 3 CL finals on the trot. But no, let's forget about that, feck it, just stick Ozil in there and let him sort it out!

It's frustrating to try and get you guys to seriously think about the bigger picture and the way our team is already set up to operate, because you don't want to understand it, you just want Ozil.
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4-3-3 is about retaining the ball better due to more passing options in the midfield sector. It is not about being more defensive, unless you make it extremely defensive by having your wingers track all the way back and in doing so actually play 4-5-1 not 4-3-3. So yeah, 4-3-3 is about keeping the ball and being flexible in attack.

A lot of teams are successful playing just 1 player who is great at getting their foot into the tackle. Fletcher is very good at this and with Scholes sitting so deep these days he's in the "Carrick" position to pick up loose balls and intercept.

Ozil is not a player to play in a midfield 3. He is a player to play in the hole in front of a midfield 4 who all defend including the wingers, or in front of the 3 deeper midfielders in a diamond and to join the striker from there.

Ozil is effectively the type of player Sir Alex tried to play Berbatov as having spent £31 million on him. Its silly to suggest people just want Ozil and arent thinking about how we actually play, when our big transfer (and flop till this point) was a player who was then played in this exact position. Its clearly the way Sir Alex wanted to go and how he was setting up his team.
 
Ekeke said:
4-3-3 is about retaining the ball better due to more passing options in the midfield sector. It is not about being more defensive, unless you make it extremely defensive by having your wingers track all the way back and in doing so actually play 4-5-1 not 4-3-3. So yeah, 4-3-3 is about keeping the ball and being flexible in attack.

A lot of teams are successful playing just 1 player who is great at getting their foot into the tackle. Fletcher is very good at this and with Scholes sitting so deep these days he's in the "Carrick" position to pick up loose balls and intercept.

Ozil is not a player to play in a midfield 3. He is a player to play in the hole in front of a midfield 4 who all defend including the wingers, or in front of the 3 deeper midfielders in a diamond and to join the striker from there.

Ozil is effectively the type of player Sir Alex tried to play Berbatov as having spent £31 million on him. Its silly to suggest people just want Ozil and arent thinking about how we actually play, when our big transfer (and flop till this point) was a player who was then played in this exact position. Its clearly the way Sir Alex wanted to go and how he was setting up his team.
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IMO Ozil played as part of a midfield 3 for Germany and did very well (podolski and muller were on the wings, with Kheidera and Schweinsteirger as the two other midfielders).

For me, Germany played a lot like Fergie wants United too.
 
Mitch Conor said:
IMO Ozil played as part of a midfield 3 for Germany and did very well (podolski and muller were on the wings, with Kheidera and Schweinsteirger as the two other midfielders).

For me, Germany played a lot like Fergie wants United too.
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Yeah, they didnt play 4-3-3

Germany and Bayern Munich both played a 4-4-1-1.

The 4 in midfield defended in an organised way, even Podolski who didnt track back when he was playing for Germany on the left wing in the previous tournament. The 1 in the hole is a free man and in Mueller's case was a bit of a nutter going all over the place, or in Ozil's case just looking to pick up offensive positions for counter attacks.
 
Mesut Ozil
Werder Bremen to Manchester United - The Insider says: 2/5

Ozil has made the right noises since his return to Germany following the World Cup. He has one year left on his Bremen contract but has not talked about wanting a big move away.

Instead his performances have done enough to attract big interest without him flagging up the situation.

Bremen general manager Klaus Allofs says he wants the 21-year-old to stay and talks are ongoing over a new deal. But he has acknowledged there is a possibility he will leave and that is because he knows of the big clubs who are interested.

United have asked to be kept informed while Chelsea and Arsenal are also admirers but may choose to look elsewhere if Bremen continue to demand £25m.

Read more: THE INSIDER: Manchester United join the race for Mesut Ozil, Sunderland eye David James and Luis Fabiano considers Tottenham | Mail Online
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The dream lives on.
 
Please..Please..Please...

And 25 Million isn't a big proce to pay for a 21 year old who showed his classion the biggest stage in world football.
 
Suedesi said:
We're after Ozil, big time.

It's between us and Madrid.

This from "Die Welt" which is not a tabloid
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If you're talking about this story then you're talking a load of shit.
Verhandlung geplatzt: Özil bei Werder Bremen vor dem Absprung - Nachrichten Sport - Fußball - Bundesliga - Werder Bremen - WELT ONLINE

There's a line at the end that says "Apart from Real Madrid other European top clubs like Manchester United are interested in the playmaker. The transfer window ends on 31 August".

Big fecking deal.
 
charleysurf said:
If you're talking about this story then you're talking a load of shit.
Verhandlung geplatzt: Özil bei Werder Bremen vor dem Absprung - Nachrichten Sport - Fußball - Bundesliga - Werder Bremen - WELT ONLINE

There's a line at the end that says "Apart from Real Madrid other European top clubs like Manchester United are interested in the playmaker. The transfer window ends on 31 August".

Big fecking deal.
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Take a chill pill. I've seen the same two clubs repeatedly being linked with him in the German press. Otherwise, none can say anything for sure, even for Khedira; clubs are very tight-lipped when it comes to transfers.
 
Suedesi said:
Take a chill pill. I've seen the same two clubs repeatedly being linked with him. Otherwise, none can say anything for sure, even for Khedira; clubs are very tight-lipped when it comes to transfers.
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So your statement "We're after Ozil, big time. It's between us and Madrid" is still just you having a muppet spasm over media gossip?
 
Well, I'm actually Ozil's maternal cousin and he always consults me what to do when it comes to important decisions.

I'll tell him to chose Madrid cuz United has some bitter, bitter fans.

Jog on now.
 
Suedesi said:
Well, I'm actually Ozil's maternal cousin and he always consults me what to do when it comes to important decisions.

I'll tell him to chose Madrid cuz United has some bitter, bitter fans.

Jog on now.
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Get back to reading Die Welt. There's a story on Manuel Neuer in there that you can wank over.
 
Andersonsonson said:
Valid point about the bench there. Ozil is not a first team player in my opinion. I for one wouldn't start him over a fit Ryan Giggs or Fletcher, lt a lone a valencia or Nani on the wings.

Yes he had a good world cup. A world cup that Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Darren Fletcher, Michael Carrick (no gametime), Valencia, Anderson, Gibson or Nani didnt get a chance to shine at.

For me he is overrated, great passer of the ball and great eye for a throughball but his close control when pressed, prompted him to panic and he wasnt an attacking midfielder that you seen running at players and bamboozling them and having a shot. He simply took the pass and put it elsewhere quickly. A good throughball passer isnt worth 25million if you ask me

I think the muppetry comes or should i say "cums" when he played in that German setup. As said before i dont see how he can improve on what we have or who you would drop.

I reckon Ozil is overrated and overpriced/overvalued.
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United often played with Rooney alone up top, especially against top competition.

I imagine that Ozil would be in a three man midfield with Scholes and Fletcher with Giggs and Nani on the wings and Rooney alone up top.

Or, in a 4-4-2 he could play alongside Rooney up top in place of Berbatov.

So, no, I would not play him in place of Giggs or Fletcher. Giggs can't play every match anyway, and I believe that Fletcher is not an attacking midfielder (see Ferguson's recent comments about Gibson providing something which United haven't had since Scholes could play up top).

I have seen him take on players, and his speed and movement create space for other players.

He is not overrated in my opinion, and remember he is only 21 so he has an upside.
 
I wonder if Barca will make a move for him if they get rebuffed by Arsenal. They have 40 million ear marked for Cesc, but if Wenger plays hardball and Cesc doesn't go this year I can definitely see Barca moving for Ozil (who in many ways is a better fit since he can play as a winger leaving Xavi and Iniesta in their preferred positions).
 
There is no chance in hell we will get him.

We are sticking with the youngsters. We won't be buying any big name players who will cost tons.
 
Won't make sense for Barca for the money. They aren't in that great shape financially and Cesc a player they want, one of their own, so the large amount makes sense.

The players Barca has already would mean very little play time for Ozil. He'll be another Hleb for them - a player that did well elsewhere and then never gets a look into their first team.

Pedro, Villa, Messi, Ibra are the players he'd have to displace more so than Iniesta or Xavi. He'd have a tough time at Barca.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
I find you only watched and rated him in the WC ?

Hilarious post mate, i mean a guy that is just a good throughball passer.. PFFT... that's only one of his strengths...

He is not over priced... his contract ends in a year, he is not over valued as he is one of Bundesliga's best youngsters and if Milner is worth 30m Ozil for 25m is a steal.
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Funnier still you believe Milner is rated at 30million! Thats what makes it worse. Fergie is right when he says there is no value in the market. For gods sake Villa went at 32million. So that must mean by your judgement that a high transfer fee is indicative of how much ability a player has!?

I have seen him in a few games for Bremen albeit on ESPN but for me he didnt have the same influence on the team that Diego had for them. But Lailani does make a valid point i havent watched him in every game, id say about 10-15 games in total including the World Cup. But for me, i havent seen him do enough to displace anyone in our team.

Granted Lailani makes a good point he is young and could adapt to our team but i dont see how he is better than what we have at the present?

I know for one i wouldnt drop Nani or Valencia for him, nor Giggs ,Fletcher or anyone like that. For me he would need to do a bit more to justify a fee of that size, regardless if he has a year or not.

I as much as you love to see new players at the club, but realistically i cannot see it happening
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
There is no chance in hell we will get him.

We are sticking with the youngsters. We won't be buying any big name players who will cost tons.
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We spent £10m on Smalling, if Sir Alex thinks we need a creative attacker I doubt he'd shy away from paying an extra £5m for Ozil.

He probably doesn't though.
 
Brwned said:
We spent £10m on Smalling, if Sir Alex thinks we need a creative attacker I doubt he'd shy away from paying an extra £5m for Ozil.

He probably doesn't though.
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Ozil will go for 20million because of his WC. Even if he has a year left.

I have a feeling the big clubs who are interested in him will wait till January to make a move. Firstly that would mean you'd get to scout him for another 4months. Plus at that point he'd have only 6 months on his contract left. His price would fall tremendously. It'd be the last chance for Werder to sell him and make some money.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Ozil will go for 20million because of his WC. Even if he has a year left.

I have a feeling the big clubs who are interested in him will wait till January to make a move. Firstly that would mean you'd get to scout him for another 4months. Plus at that point he'd have only 6 months on his contract left. His price would fall tremendously. It'd be the last chance for Werder to sell him and make some money.
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The club aren't stupid and the player sure isn't despertate to move especially at the age of 21. He will sign a new contract if no one snaps him up in the summer transfer window even if he eventually leaves the year after.
 
Andersonsonson said:
Funnier still you believe Milner is rated at 30million! Thats what makes it worse. Fergie is right when he says there is no value in the market. For gods sake Villa went at 32million. So that must mean by your judgement that a high transfer fee is indicative of how much ability a player has!?

I have seen him in a few games for Bremen albeit on ESPN but for me he didnt have the same influence on the team that Diego had for them. But Lailani does make a valid point i havent watched him in every game, id say about 10-15 games in total including the World Cup. But for me, i havent seen him do enough to displace anyone in our team.

Granted Lailani makes a good point he is young and could adapt to our team but i dont see how he is better than what we have at the present?

I know for one i wouldnt drop Nani or Valencia for him, nor Giggs ,Fletcher or anyone like that. For me he would need to do a bit more to justify a fee of that size, regardless if he has a year or not.

I as much as you love to see new players at the club, but realistically i cannot see it happening
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So £32m for Villa isn't value? There's value in the market you just have to hope City aren't interested in the same player. Lets not get all high and might about our squad, our creativity isn't the best and the fact that alot seems to get tanted about whether or not 'they' can get in ahead of Giggs.. he's on his last legs the less games he plays the better, we can no longer rely on him or Scholes to give us a full season they are the most drop-able players in our squad because as far as i am concerned they are a luxury to us. £20m for this guy is his justified price and thats because he had a good world cup (why should that not come into the picture) it proves he can perform on the big stage does it not?!
 
fantastic prospect but where would he play?

Rafael-----?1?1?1?------Evra
------Fletcher-----?2?2?2?------
Valencia------------------Nani
------------Rooney------------

?1?1?1? needs to be a Scholes type player or Carrick when he was good. I can only think of Sneijder who could fill this role.

?2?2?2? needs to be combative, creative and energetic like a better version of Park, an in form Anderson or James Milner.

I can't see how Ozil would be accomodated without completely changing the system.
 
friendlytramp said:
fantastic prospect but where would he play?

Rafael-----?1?1?1?------Evra
------Fletcher-----?2?2?2?------
Valencia------------------Nani
------------Rooney------------

?1?1?1? needs to be a Scholes type player or Carrick when he was good. I can only think of Sneijder who could fill this role.

?2?2?2? needs to be combative, creative and energetic like a better version of Park, an in form Anderson or James Milner.

I can't see how Ozil would be accomodated without completely changing the system.
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Sneijder is nothing at all like Carrick or Scholes (as he currently plays), he is the exact same kind of player as Ozil.

And the combative, energetic player is already in the team, he's called Darren Fletcher.
 
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