They wont play their best player in an extremely improtant match?
Mesut Özil
- Thread starter charleysurf
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They wont play their best player in an extremely improtant match?
so?
He went to see him. If he was not seriously interested in him he would not have gone at all. Fergie didn't pick the Bremen team, so was not the one to decide he would not start the game.
If they are planning on selling him, no, they may not. They play him his value plummets or they lose him on a free next summer.
Any news today then lads?
Erm, so why leave seven minutes after he is brought on then?
Özil came on in the 38th minute, Fergie left at half-time...
Maybe the half time drink ended up a major session.
Its been discussed before, but why not watch him in the second half?
I think he was watching Fulham. I think he saw enough in the first half - they were 5-0 up at HT.
Maybe Fergie had another meeting he had to go to.
Not if they want money for him they wont
They'll lose money by not qualifying as well.
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As I said before, weigh what they'd get for him against Champions League income.
We've no idea why Fergie went to Fulham. Could have been to speak to the new manager, could have been something to do with Smalling, could have been to watch another player from Bremen or even one from Fulham. Could also have been to collect that crate of wine he was promised last season or to deliver a crate of wine as a welcome gift to Sparky. Could be for many, many reasons.
If it specifically was to watch Ozil then I can't think of a bigger insult to a player than to leave after he's played for only 7 mins.
We do face Fulham in the second league round too. It might have been both that and that he wanted to see if he could see something regarding Ozil. He will probably leave this summer. Even though they seemingly have not made a move yet I bet Bayern Munchen is interested too. Perhaps he just goes for free next summer.
Fergie stayed back after Fulham friendly last w-e and was with Bremen directors/entourage in boardroom
from daniel taylor's twitter
from daniel taylor's twitter
I got the feeling that Fergie tried to sign him but it's impossible at the moment, maybe Ozil prefers a move to Barca or Madrid.
Back to propping up the table then.
probably just a little chit chat about Ozil, didnt hear what he wanted and left it as that.
got to see fulham aswell so two birds with one stone type.
Not true - there are two answers to this.
One given by Fergie himself where he said he was there to watch a team we'd be playing in two weeks who have a new manager.
On the other side Daniel Taylor of the Guardian tweeted
"Confirmed, from high at #MUFC, that Fergie was at Fulham last w-e purely to see Ozil - not, as he said, to see forthcoming opponents"
"Fergie ALWAYS delegates staff to spy on opposition unless it's, say, a big Champions League tie (but definitely not a friendly)"
Depends on who you choose to believe
Edit: Interesting - as of 2 min before this post that breef posted - Daniel Taylor saying that SAF stayed back to talk to Bremen officials.
DTguardian: More on #MUFC & Ozil . . Fergie stayed back after Fulham friendly last w-e and was with Bremen directors/entourage in boardroom
Yeah Bref just posted that a bit ago.
We speculated about this in the last thread; that it was most likely he was there to have some contact with Bremen. If you trust Daniel Taylor, then that seems to have been the case.
Yeah, I know he said that I've highlighted above. He has done that before too. If he's in the area anyway he does tend to go to the matches/call on other managers.
Daniel Taylor has been wrong quite a few times recently with his ITK tweets if you've noticed.
I like Daniel Taylor's writing. Unfortunately, he got it way wrong 2-3 weeks ago when he wrote that according to his sources, Vidic wants out.
Saw it after I posted, just skimmed over the page beforehand.
Yeah but now hes writing about a player coming to us, so it has to be true!
Either way theres a lot of rumours going about that it seems like people are just putting stories up in hopes that it happens and they look like they are in the know...
That's quite possible. His own defence for the Vidic thing was
@DTguardian said:
I still think it is pretty unlikely that Fergie went to "scout" Fulham for 45 mins. Obviously it is even more ridiculous to claim he was there to "scout" Özil given the amount of time he would've seen him for.
But to have contact with Werder officials, well it would explain why he didn't care to watch the whole match, if that wasn't the reason for his visit.
Obviously the Vidic thing shows how changeable things are, so even if what DT says is true, it is obviously no guarantee of that even translating into a bid.
I think he will not move this year.
Werder Bremen have a tough game against Sampdoria, and the economic value for qualifying in the CL proper exceeds the 12-15MM Euros they'd get for Ozil. In addition, any replacement for Ozil would cost money, so it's unlikely that Werder would be too pi$$ed if Ozil stays.
From Ozil's perspective, he can stay another year in the Bundesliga, get some CL exposure and next year command a large signing fee / wage.
From Man Utd / Chelsea / Real / Barca perspective, he's not likely to walk straight into the starting eleven. Def not at Barca, maybe for a few months at Madrid while Kaka's is injured. Not sure about us and Chelsea, but both teams would have to rejigger formations a bit and there's no guarantee that it will work out. At 12-15MM EUR, he's not a huge risk, but it seems that Fergie / Ancelotti / Jose / Pep do not feel too strongly about the player, and would rather invest elsewhere.
Add here the short time before the CL game, and I think any deal would be very tough to complete. Waiting another year may suit all parties involved.
Werder Bremen have a tough game against Sampdoria, and the economic value for qualifying in the CL proper exceeds the 12-15MM Euros they'd get for Ozil. In addition, any replacement for Ozil would cost money, so it's unlikely that Werder would be too pi$$ed if Ozil stays.
From Ozil's perspective, he can stay another year in the Bundesliga, get some CL exposure and next year command a large signing fee / wage.
From Man Utd / Chelsea / Real / Barca perspective, he's not likely to walk straight into the starting eleven. Def not at Barca, maybe for a few months at Madrid while Kaka's is injured. Not sure about us and Chelsea, but both teams would have to rejigger formations a bit and there's no guarantee that it will work out. At 12-15MM EUR, he's not a huge risk, but it seems that Fergie / Ancelotti / Jose / Pep do not feel too strongly about the player, and would rather invest elsewhere.
Add here the short time before the CL game, and I think any deal would be very tough to complete. Waiting another year may suit all parties involved.
Great post.
So would it be viable to buy him now and loan him back to Bremen for the season?
Pros:
+ Lower price (most likely)
+ CL Experience
+ Bremen get money but still have the player for this important CL games
+ If he flops this season we can pull a Ljajic (maybe)
+ Gives Cleverley and other young players a season to prove themselves
+ Giggs and Scholes will most likely retire after the season so it's very possible we would be looking for some creative player after the season in any case
Cons:
- Lower signing fee and wages for Ozil (from his point of view, obviously good for United in the long term)
- something else, but I don't want to ruin this master plan of mine.
Pros:
+ Lower price (most likely)
+ CL Experience
+ Bremen get money but still have the player for this important CL games
+ If he flops this season we can pull a Ljajic (maybe)
+ Gives Cleverley and other young players a season to prove themselves
+ Giggs and Scholes will most likely retire after the season so it's very possible we would be looking for some creative player after the season in any case
Cons:
- Lower signing fee and wages for Ozil (from his point of view, obviously good for United in the long term)
- something else, but I don't want to ruin this master plan of mine.
There's no point in loaning him back, when we could get him for free next summer.
But then there will be other teams to compete with, most of whom can pay more then us.
Mr. Taylor, you point out that Fergie delegates a staff to spy on opposition. But since when does Fergie deal with arranging transfer signings and talking to other clubs officials???????
All of those teams are rumoured to be interested now though. He will go where he wants to go - this summer or next. Just because he is on a free next summer doesn't necessarily mean he'll be shown any more realistic interest. He's going to go to one of the top clubs - Barca, United, Madrid, Chelsea - one way or the other. I don't think we'll have much more serious competition next summer.
With regard to the Cleverley vs. Ozil debate:
1. Why not both? They are players who can play in the hole or on the wings, so why not play them together?
2. Let's look at the stats, and before the usual replies with the old chestnut about "Stats don't tell you everything" - at least stats represent something more substantive than naked opinions based on subjective impressions. I wonder how many of us have actually watched either Watford, Werder Bremen or Schalke's matches.
Ozil has produced 12 assists in each of the last two seasons for his club, while improving his goal tally to 9 after moving into the hole last season.
Cleverley scored 11 goals and had 5 assists while with Watford last season.
Nani and Valencia combined produced 13 assists in the Premier League last season. Giggs led United with 9 assists.
We all rave about Valencia's crosses and Nani's improvement. We are astonished at Giggs' production, but when it comes to Ozil who has consistently delivered 12 assists a season can we seriously say he's not worth going for?
The comparison with Cleverley is a fair one because Cleverley is 20 and Ozil is 21. There is only one year difference between the two, but one player has starred in the World Cup and in the Champions League, the other for Watford and against the MLS All-Stars. As to which is better football the Bundesliga or the Championship, I'll leave that for you to decide for yourself. Personally I think the German top flight edges it.
Both Cleverley and Ozil have a brilliant future, both could play together, and both offer different strengths.
When Cristiano was still with United, Giggs played more often at CM. With Ronaldo's departure Giggs has popped up on the wing again. I actually think that if Ozil comes to United we'll see him used on the wings with Giggs in an attacking midfield role. Ozil has that special quality of having a cultured left foot - something which United will lack when Giggs can no longer do it in three or four years. Ozil should be thought of more as a long-term replacement for Giggs, than a replacement for Scholes IMO.
United should have three top-class wingers for any season. In Nani, Valencia, Giggs and Park we would seem to have more than enough. Do we need Ozil? No. But if he is available then I think his quality and his ability to fill any spot from the wing to AM to a support striker combine to make him worth going for.
1. Why not both? They are players who can play in the hole or on the wings, so why not play them together?
2. Let's look at the stats, and before the usual replies with the old chestnut about "Stats don't tell you everything" - at least stats represent something more substantive than naked opinions based on subjective impressions. I wonder how many of us have actually watched either Watford, Werder Bremen or Schalke's matches.
Ozil has produced 12 assists in each of the last two seasons for his club, while improving his goal tally to 9 after moving into the hole last season.
Cleverley scored 11 goals and had 5 assists while with Watford last season.
Nani and Valencia combined produced 13 assists in the Premier League last season. Giggs led United with 9 assists.
We all rave about Valencia's crosses and Nani's improvement. We are astonished at Giggs' production, but when it comes to Ozil who has consistently delivered 12 assists a season can we seriously say he's not worth going for?
The comparison with Cleverley is a fair one because Cleverley is 20 and Ozil is 21. There is only one year difference between the two, but one player has starred in the World Cup and in the Champions League, the other for Watford and against the MLS All-Stars. As to which is better football the Bundesliga or the Championship, I'll leave that for you to decide for yourself. Personally I think the German top flight edges it.
Both Cleverley and Ozil have a brilliant future, both could play together, and both offer different strengths.
When Cristiano was still with United, Giggs played more often at CM. With Ronaldo's departure Giggs has popped up on the wing again. I actually think that if Ozil comes to United we'll see him used on the wings with Giggs in an attacking midfield role. Ozil has that special quality of having a cultured left foot - something which United will lack when Giggs can no longer do it in three or four years. Ozil should be thought of more as a long-term replacement for Giggs, than a replacement for Scholes IMO.
United should have three top-class wingers for any season. In Nani, Valencia, Giggs and Park we would seem to have more than enough. Do we need Ozil? No. But if he is available then I think his quality and his ability to fill any spot from the wing to AM to a support striker combine to make him worth going for.
Yes, but if he only has 2 options now, us or staying, surely we have more chance then next year if other teams want him. I've no idea if Ferguson wants him or not, but if he does why wait if we can secure him now for a minimal fee (according to my plan posted above which might or might not work out in reality)?
Great post
I like your style.
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