Mesut Özil

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Getting the thread back on track, I'm sure most would agree that if Ozil joins our attack in the big matches would look like so:

-------------------Rooney

------Nani-----------Ozil---------Valencia

In my opinion, the position Ozil has in this attack is a position where we came up short last year. We lacked a creative cutting edge at times, and also a consistent goalscorer from the centre. So in other words, Ozil is the kind of player we needed last season.

The next question is 'Is he the player we need this season?'

We have Anderson to come back who has great talent but has struggled with injuries and form. Can he step up this year? The position is made for him.

A return to form from Carrick could release Scholes back into an advanced role where he is still a threat.

Giggs brings guile and penetrative passing when he plays there.

Giggs and Scholes will need to be replaced soon and Ozil would be a great addition, but can we win the big prizes this season regardless?

PS. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm a big fan of the lad and would love to see him in a United shirt
 
Jaap said:
Özil played behind the strikers in Bremen's diamond midfield formation before the winterbreak. This was away to Freiburg, where the Werderaner won their match 6-0. Özil scored a goal and assisted another four.

---------- Özil ----------
--- Jensen ----- Hunt ---
------- Bargfrede -------

I can see a willingness to cover defensively, he did plenty for Germany at the World Cup, but he also does so for Werder in the Bundesliga. He has a strict coach (Thomas Schaaf), who doesn't like the idea of a player not tracking back, not marking or not putting in a defensive shift. He does a lot of ball-winning in his own team's area and is certainly not afraid to get stuck in (something that he needs to do, should he move to us).

There's a nice YouTube video of him I suggest you to have a look at, Brwned.

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Well that's certainly a positive, it's a bit ridiculous of myself to judge a player on the basis of 10 games or so in a certain system, especially given it's purely at international level. I'd disagree on him doing plenty for Germany(I thought he was pretty much the only player in a very organised Germany team that didn't have to do much work on the defensive, actually) myself, I didn't see him contribute any more than Berbatov would usually, but like I said that's only a few games. If you think Ozil's shown enough in the league then I'll take your word for it absolutely, appreciate the input/information as always.

Will give it a watch.
 
VidaRed said:
With our current midfield we wont win the champions league...of that i am certain.

Im sure saf recognizes this but cant compete in the transfer market. I have a feeling that ozil doesn't want to come to us otherwise fergie would have snapped him up weeks ago.
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Agree with this, SAF seems to want him and therefore would have had him by now. IMO Barca will sign him, god knows why they need him, but then again they seem to want to sign everyone and everyone wants to go there.
 
The White Pele said:
Getting the thread back on track, I'm sure most would agree that if Ozil joins our attack in the big matches would look like so:

-------------------Rooney

------Nani-----------Ozil---------Valencia

In my opinion, the position Ozil has in this attack is a position where we came up short last year. We lacked a creative cutting edge at times, and also a consistent goalscorer from the centre. So in other words, Ozil is the kind of player we needed last season.

The next question is 'Is he the player we need this season?'

We have Anderson to come back who has great talent but has struggled with injuries and form. Can he step up this year? The position is made for him.

A return to form from Carrick could release Scholes back into an advanced role where he is still a threat.

Giggs brings guile and penetrative passing when he plays there.

Giggs and Scholes will need to be replaced soon and Ozil would be a great addition, but can we win the big prizes this season regardless?

PS. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm a big fan of the lad and would love to see him in a United shirt
Click to expand...

As I said previously, the player in the hole (behind 1 forward) needs to deliver a consistant amount of goals. Not a huge amount but enough to make up the difference from losing the 2nd striker. 9 league goals from Berbatov was deemed not enough... So how can the position be "made" for Anderson if he hasnt scored 9 goals for us yet? Now if we played a diamond and had 2 players up front and Anderson behind, maybe the goalscoring responsibilities are reduced and he could do a better job there. But we arent going to play a diamond.
 
The White Pele said:
In my opinion, the position Ozil has in this attack is a position where we came up short last year. We lacked a creative cutting edge at times, and also a consistent goalscorer from the centre. So in other words, Ozil is the kind of player we needed last season.
Click to expand...

This is where I think he falls short, for now at least, and is perhaps the only reason I can see Ferguson overlooking him.

With no goals for Shalke in 30 (ok he was very young) and only 13 in 71 for Werder, there are question marks there.

Wether the transfer muppets (I'm not ruling myself out of that bracket :) ) like it or not, I think Ferguson sees Gibson and Cleverly being goalscoring midfielders who are the ultimate value. No transfer fee and no additional wages.
 
Pexbo said:
This is where I think he falls short, for now at least, and is perhaps the only reason I can see Ferguson overlooking him.

With no goals for Shalke in 30 (ok he was very young) and only 13 in 71 for Werder, there are question marks there.

Wether the transfer muppets (I'm not ruling myself out of that bracket :) ) like it or not, I think Ferguson sees Gibson and Cleverly being goalscoring midfielders who are the ultimate value. No transfer fee and no additional wages.
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22 years old and last season he got 9 league goals in his first season playing in the hole. Before that he was a young player playing on the wing. The only relevant information is what he's done in the hole, and in fairly recent times. In Ozil's case we're talking about 1 season and then the world cup.

Cleverley is a player who spent most of his time in our reserves as a fullback and then went on loan to Watford and played on the wing. Its unlikely he'll get too many games in central midfield with his lack of experience let alone playing in the hole. And Cleverley's goals have come in the championship and in pre-season, we're yet to see what he can do at the top level.
 
Ekeke said:
As I said previously, the player in the hole (behind 1 forward) needs to deliver a consistant amount of goals. Not a huge amount but enough to make up the difference from losing the 2nd striker. 9 league goals from Berbatov was deemed not enough... So how can the position be "made" for Anderson if he hasnt scored 9 goals for us yet? Now if we played a diamond and had 2 players up front and Anderson behind, maybe the goalscoring responsibilities are reduced and he could do a better job there. But we arent going to play a diamond.
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Good point. I do think Anderson could significantly improve his goal return though if he got a run of games in an advanced role. He just needs to work at getting into those positions. Although he's only scored one goal for us it's not like he has missed many clear cut chances, but his long range shooting has indeed been disappointing.

Too often though we've seen him playing deeper and I hope when he comes back he can prove himself as an attacker and improve his tally.

Edit: Anyway, before this turns into an Anderson thread, how many goals do you think Ozil would give us if he joined? I think he is capable of getting to 15
 
Pexbo said:
This is where I think he falls short, for now at least, and is perhaps the only reason I can see Ferguson overlooking him.

With no goals for Shalke in 30 (ok he was very young) and only 13 in 71 for Werder, there are question marks there.

Wether the transfer muppets (I'm not ruling myself out of that bracket :) ) like it or not, I think Ferguson sees Gibson and Cleverly being goalscoring midfielders who are the ultimate value. No transfer fee and no additional wages.
Click to expand...
Many players increase their goal return when playing with better players. Just look at Valencia. He'd scored seven goals in three seasons at Wigan, an amount which he managed to score in his first season at United, and it'll probably be even more this season...
 
The White Pele said:
Good point. I do think Anderson could significantly improve his goal return though if he got a run of games in an advanced role. He just needs to work at getting into those positions. Although he's only scored one goal for us it's not like he has missed many clear cut chances, but his long range shooting has indeed been disappointing.

Too often though we've seen him playing deeper and I hope when he comes back he can prove himself as an attacker and improve his tally.

Edit: Anyway, before this turns into an Anderson thread, how many goals do you think Ozil would give us if he joined? I think he is capable of getting to 15
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Most of the shots he's had for us, he's used a technique that wasnt ideal for the situation. A short range technique for shots from a fair distance for example, that were never seriously going to have the power to beat the keeper. It may be a confidence thing I dont know, but he's done nothing at all to suggest that he's going to score more goals than the average midfielder.

15 is the sort of ideal number I would hope for too, if we signed him and he had a really good season. Around 15 league goals I mean.

Around that number is where you can say that having a second goalscorer up front wouldnt have been better than having someone in the hole. As a second striker may have managed more goals, but obviously not the same creativity.
 
EdWeatherall said:
Did this appear in the either thread yet

Linky

I know they have them for all people named on the website
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Meh any player that has been linked to us has a profile on the united website. As it says in the details bit a note of "express 9 July"

Edit- fecking white text smart ass.
 
-------------------hernandez

------park-----------berba---------obertan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-------------------rooney

------nani-----------ozil---------valencia

screw ozil. owen's better anyway.
 
-------------VDS-------------
----------Vida--Rio----------
-------Scholes - Carrick-------
-Valencia-----Ozil------Nani-
-Berba --- Chicharito --- Rooney-



:wenger:
 
Apparently Barca has reached a deal with Bremen for 10 million but Guardiola and the player himself need to give their OK's.

That's what El Pais apparently said, I heard.
 
Rams said:
Giggs moved Lee Sharpe out of the team. If Tom Cleverley is good enough he'll get his chance and take it. He's almost 21, same age as Ozil. He's got bags of talent and was one the star players in the Championship last season. And he's English to boot! So lets start giving him a chance.
I remember watching a young Xavi in his first seasons at Barca, he was useless and the Barca fans just couldn't understand why the maneger kept picking him..
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If I remember well Giggs drove an injury prone Lee Sharpe out of the team which is different. Nowadays we have 4 left wingers in the team (Nani, Park, Obertan and Giggs) and 5 central midfielders (Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes and Gibson) with players like OShea, Giggs and even Valencia capable of moving in central midfield. How many chances does an inexperienced kid has to dislodge one of those guys?

If we loan him up he will return as an EPL tested player at a time when Scholes, Giggs and probably Hargreaves would have retired. There will be enough space for both him and the new guy. I cant see why bringing in a promising talent with good experience like Ozil would hinder his career.
 
devilish said:
If I remember well Giggs drove an injury prone Lee Sharpe out of the team which is different. Nowadays we have 4 left wingers in the team (Nani, Park, Obertan and Giggs) and 5 central midfielders (Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes and Gibson) with players like OShea, Giggs and even Valencia capable of moving in central midfield. How many chances does an inexperienced kid has to dislodge one of those guys?

If we loan him up he will return as an EPL tested player at a time when Scholes, Giggs and probably Hargreaves would have retired. There will be enough space for both him and the new guy. I cant see why bringing in a promising talent with good experience like Ozil would hinder his career.
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If we sign Ozil, he plus Cleverely = Giggs + Scholes as AM's. Meaning the dol guard will most likely start to be fazed out steadily as the season goes by.
 
Plan M said:
Who thinks we're signing him? Who thinks that we aren't?
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I don t think he ll join us, unless the price drops to below 10m.
Player transfer fees are set to go down, especially from next season with the new uefa finanacial fairplay regulation and many clubs will think twice before spending big (except thos with more money than sense like city). I think transfers like those of Carvalho at 8 million will become the norm.
15 million may look as a low fee for someone like ozil but clubs also know that with 15 million next summer they could buy a lot more than they could now.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
If we sign Ozil, he plus Cleverely = Giggs + Scholes as AM's. Meaning the dol guard will most likely start to be fazed out steadily as the season goes by.
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The thing is Scholes has become a different midfielder for us in the last few seasons, not an AM but a deep lying play maker which is a role neither Ozil of Cleverly can fill.
 
Devil may care said:
The thing is Scholes has become a different midfielder for us in the last few seasons, not an AM but a deep lying play maker which is a role neither Ozil of Cleverly can fill.
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Xavi, Pirlo. Who else could fill it?




We cannot replace Scholes. End of.
 
I admire your optimism about Cleverley but I think he's going to find it very difficult to become as good as Ozil is at the moment - only a year separates them and there's a vast difference in experience and class between the two at the moment. While I rate Cleverley and wish him well, I think he doesn't have more than a 30 per cent chance of making it to the United's first team in the next few years. It's extremely tough to become a first team player at United nowadays. For all the talk about giving youngsters a chance not many of them are able to make it, take the likes of Eagles and Richardson for example - both seemingly talented with great desire but they couldn't cut it. I'm glad that Evans, O'Shea and Fletcher have found their way to the first team but they're the only ones in this century to do so, three players in 10 years isn't really much, is it?
 
Devil may care said:
The thing is Scholes has become a different midfielder for us in the last few seasons, not an AM but a deep lying play maker which is a role neither Ozil of Cleverly can fill.
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We have Carrick to be the deep lying playmaker and Anderson is being slowly and painfully converted into one, and if that fails we can always hope James or Pogba can become that or we sign Rodwell. What we've truly lacked though is a Scholes of old and a younger version of the current Giggs in our squad for long term benefit. Cleverely and Ozil would provide us with that. As SAF tries to develop Gibson into his own version of Lampard.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
We have Carrick to be the deep lying playmaker and Anderon is being slowly and painfully converted into one. What we've lacked thought is a Scholes of old and a younger version of the current Giggs. Cleverely and Ozil would provide us with that. As SAF develops Gibson into his own version of Lampard.
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I see Ozil and Cleverly filling the roles you suggest but I think we'll need to invest in a deep lying playmaker when Scholes hangs them up.
 
dev1l said:
I don t think he ll join us, unless the price drops to below 10m.
Player transfer fees are set to go down, especially from next season with the new uefa finanacial fairplay regulation and many clubs will think twice before spending big (except thos with more money than sense like city). I think transfers like those of Carvalho at 8 million will become the norm.
15 million may look as a low fee for someone like ozil but clubs also know that with 15 million next summer they could buy a lot more than they could now.
Click to expand...

15 million (EUR or £) is "low" because he will be out of contract end of the new season. If we REALLY wanted him, I'm sure we could afford more than £10m. After all Smalling was £10m, and he doesn't have the same high profile as Ozil, has he? Ultimately, I guess it's where Ozil wants to go, if at all.

Agree with you on the new UEFA rule though. Not spending more than a club can generate is really going to hinder a lot of clubs,
 
manusteve said:
15 million (EUR or £) is "low" because he will be out of contract end of the new season. If we REALLY wanted him, I'm sure we could afford more than £10m. After all Smalling was £10m, and he doesn't have the same high profile as Ozil, has he? Ultimately, I guess it's where Ozil wants to go, if at all.

Agree with you on the new UEFA rule though. Not spending more than a club can generate is really going to hinder a lot of clubs,
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Initially when i heard about this new financial fairplay rule i thought it was another media things - a lot of hullaboo about nothing.
But yesterday i met someone who is close to one of Uefa's top guys and told me that they re dead serious about it and it will definitely be implemented.
 
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