Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Womp said:
Odd statement considering Ronaldo relies purely on his physical attributes, Messi doesn't.
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He certainly does.

The turn of pace and acceleration is a huge part of Messi's game, and tonight it was just a dream to watch :drool:. Once that goes he will lose the ability to beat players so easily and that will cause him big problems.

But Robben still has it and he's what? 33 now?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
He certainly does.

The turn of pace and acceleration is a huge part of Messi's game, and tonight it was just a dream to watch :drool:. Once that goes he will lose the ability to beat players so easily and that will cause him big problems.

But Robben still has it and he's what? 33 now?
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Aye, but that's just ability, he doesn't rely on his pace or power as much as Ronaldo does, for eg. Messi could be slow as feck and he'd still be an immense footballer. That's why I don't see him falling off anytime soon.
 
Peyroteo said:
If he doesn't drop deeper he plays a lot worse and his stats would be a lot worse. He's better at running at defenders so he'll drop deep, if he stayed in the middle of the CBs he would disappear from the game. Ronaldo is better off playing closer to goal. They are different players that operate in different areas. Just like Ronaldo would play worse if he dropped deep, Messi would play worse if he played 20 meters ahead.
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Not necessarilly. Messi scored 73 goals when he was closer to the box and 60 goals whilst being injured till April under Tito. The difference is that he had a system in place to deliver him good balls that he could control. At the moment noone gives him the ball if he doesn't drop deep to construct moves. He has shown exceptional ball movement when he had the right support. Noone can score 73 goals in one season by dropping deep all the time and dribbling. I doubt anyone in my lifetime will even come close to those numbers and he would have broken it in 12/13 season had he not been injured.

Messi is just an alien. All the greats like Pele, Maradona, Cruyff etc were all great at both scoring and creating but they leaned to one side or the the other. Noone in the history of the game has been so good at doing both with such brutal efficiency. He complies with the stats that seems to be how footballers are judged these days, he is ahead in almost every statistical metric whilst he offers 'magic' and captures the imagination of the football romantics and purists. He is the most complete attacking player I have seen.
 
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Womp said:
Aye, but that's just ability, he doesn't rely on his pace or power as much as Ronaldo does, for eg. Messi could be slow as feck and he'd still be an immense footballer. That's why I don't see him falling off anytime soon.
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Whats the use of changing speeds if you are slow?
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Whats the use of changing speeds if you are slow?
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Changing speed isn't the only thing Messi excels at. If he was to lose his pace, he still has his passing range, the ability to wiggle out of tight spaces, his finishing and dead ball delivery etc.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Whats the use of changing speeds if you are slow?
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He would essentially be like David Silva and Bernado Silva are like atm, especially Bernando Silva who can still dribble 2-3 players despite not having that burst off pace.
 
If Ronaldo has to play in midfield like Messi does he'd be dog shit, Messi gives like two or three assists per game that his teammates fail to concrete.
 
Today Messi was the better player and it was about time he did something like this because before this game he hadn't scored or being very good at any clásico since 2014, he also recently scored against Atlético (also had a very long spell without scoring). So sure this performance is very signifcant for Barcelona as a team and for Messi's individual performances. I think Ronaldo was good in his role, he did everything right except for being clinical like he was against Bayern and there was one very clear chance for him he should have scored; so while I won't shit on him it feels he let himself and the team down missing a very good opportunity to put the team ahead and wrap the league and he has only him to blame for that.

Still the league isn't done yet and we have other crucial games ahead, he won't have another opportunity to score against Barcelona in what's left of the season but we can still win the league and the UCL so I hope he doesn't sulk after this and keeps scoring goals for us.
 
Raoul said:
No doubt, although I'm always amused by how sure some people are when they pontificate that one is better than the other.
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There really won't be any debate on who was better when Messi's still tearing teams to shreds after Ronaldo's retired. He was undoubtedly better in his teens, it's widely acknowledged that Messi's reached higher peaks than Ronaldo ever has in their prime, and it'd be very surprising if he's anything other than an exceptional player in his 30s.

The only thing that Ronaldo's done that Messi hasn't is excelling for different clubs. Beyond that they're neck-and-neck or Messi's significantly ahead on all meaningful metrics, and you have to be of a particular mindset yo believe Messi wouldn't excel elsewhere.
 
Brwned said:
There really won't be any debate on who was better when Messi's still tearing teams to shreds after Ronaldo's retired. He was undoubtedly better in his teens, it's widely acknowledged that Messi's reached higher peaks than Ronaldo ever has in their prime, and it'd be very surprising if he's anything other than an exceptional player in his 30s.

The only thing that Ronaldo's done that Messi hasn't is excelling for different clubs. Beyond that they're neck-and-neck or Messi's significantly ahead on all meaningful metrics, and you have to be of a particular mindset yo believe Messi wouldn't excel elsewhere.
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I think this may be the last year we will see both players perform at the Ronaldo/Messi level where they've had their own unique category and everyone else was below them. Ronaldo at a minimum has dropped off this year to where he looks more human, and at 32, I would imagine that will continue next year.
 
Raoul said:
I think this may be the last year we will see both players perform at the Ronaldo/Messi level where they've had their own unique category and everyone else was below them. Ronaldo at a minimum has dropped off this year to where he looks more human, and at 32, I would imagine that will continue next year.
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I think Ronaldo will continue to give the numbers he does as long as he's at Madrid and they continue to create the chances they do. His overall game has become very ordinary but the stats won't really go down imo. If Zlatan can, despite his performanecs, get 28 goals at 35 in a more difficult league, Ronaldo at 32-34 should continue to comfortably score 30 a year imo. He's just the best finisher there is.
 
Peyroteo said:
If he doesn't drop deeper he plays a lot worse and his stats would be a lot worse. He's better at running at defenders so he'll drop deep, if he stayed in the middle of the CBs he would disappear from the game. Ronaldo is better off playing closer to goal. They are different players that operate in different areas. Just like Ronaldo would play worse if he dropped deep, Messi would play worse if he played 20 meters ahead.
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Given what you've said, surely messi's goalscoring is more impressive.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Who says Messi "has" to drop deeper?
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His coach, and the fact that he's playing with Iniesta, Rakitic, Dennis, Andre Gomes and Rafinha. Not Kroos, Modrid, James and Isco. If he played like an isle he would be a non-factor given our midfield

Cal? said:
ronaldovmessi.png


Are you sure about those figures?
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The basic math I did with the numbers someone posted and corrected for you about their scoring since 2010 after you moaned that Ronaldo A) Played in a rebuilding Man Utd and B) Needed a year to settle in La Liga?

Yeah, I'm sure about that, no need to turn the debate around into different stats another time
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
He certainly does.

The turn of pace and acceleration is a huge part of Messi's game, and tonight it was just a dream to watch :drool:. Once that goes he will lose the ability to beat players so easily and that will cause him big problems.

But Robben still has it and he's what? 33 now?
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Allegedly, he already lost it after his 2013 injury
And then he lost it again this same season, you can read about it in the Messi thread, people saying it literally 2 days ago.

He has lost his pace and change of rythm like 4 times in the last 7 years, yet somehow when he doesn't have 3 guys covering him and gets his 2 meters to think and run he seems to magically recover it. But even when he loses it (be it 4 years ago, now or 4 years in the future) he still has a lot of weapons, Xavi had the stamina and pace of a semi-pro in his last seasons at Barcelona and he kept spinning and driblling, Messi always was a better dribbler so he's not becoming a 1'69 version of Fellaini

Adzzz said:
It's like arguing over Mozart and Beethoven.
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Or Pelé vs Muller, Hugo Sanchez vs Maradona, John Stockton vs Kevin Johnson, Steve Nash vs Gilbert Arenas, Alonso vs Vettel. In your example it would be like saying Justin Bieber is an equal artist to Jean-Michel Jarre because he is able to match or even surpass his revenue

Some athletes can keep up or even improve GOAT material stats, but that doesn't put them in the same picture if you look at the sport as a whole, and not just a bunch of stats
 
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Messi has lost a lot of pace it seems, pretty sure Toni Kroos beat him to a loose ball over a fairly long distance?
 
Messi is in a different league to Ronaldo.

Ronaldo isn't even the best Ronaldo. It's not a debate anymore Messi is clearly superior in every department to Ronaldo and plays in midfield for most of the game where as Ronaldo is lighting campfires in opposition boxes.
 
Messi has lost some pace. It's fairly obvious, but it doesn't deter him.

He's basically carried Barcelona the entire league season. Reminiscent of the 2012-2013 season. Perhaps even greater now, since he drops even further deep compared to back then.
 
Ronaldo is a great in his own right. Yesterday doesn't affect his legacy one bit for me and like I said if he wins CL again - probably gets in my top 10 of all time.

Messi is something else entirely. That look Kroos gave him just after the goal said it all - he looked terrified.
 
Peyroteo said:
Ronaldo has only been playing this way fairly recently. If we're talking this season only then I agree. Impressive is subjective though, is jumping in the air to head in a cross more or less impressive than going past two players and scoring?

I think a thing that people don't talk about enough is the fact that Messi played with such a dominant team throughout his career makes it that he spent a lot more time than Cristiano attacking. These days that's not true anymore but especially under Pep it was a very big difference in possession between both teams and even if it means that he spent only a bit more of time attacking in one game on the grand scheme of things it's a significant difference and it will affect the stats. Or it would seem that way at least, it's impossible to judge acurately really. That's why it's so hard to debate this, there's too many factors in play.
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Ronaldo has been playing like this a for a while now, it only has become more appearant the last 2 seasons. It was a graduale transformation, but the process to become what he is now started in his seconed season in Spain.
 
Messi for me is the best player I have ever seen playing, by a distance, but I respect people who have seen them play over the years and still say Ronaldo is better. Very loyal group of people, pretty admirable imo!

Furthermore you also have people, who said Ronaldo is the best, who I think have slowly been progressing to a sort of pro Messi stance over the years. A lot of them who said Ronaldo is the best, take a cop out nowadays and say they are equally great "can we just enjoy them both" or that its just a preference they have. I think this will only increase over the years.
 
Ronaldo at his peak seemed like a better athlete and was strong and quick, these things diminish over time. Messi has the far superior football brain and that is probably one of the last things to go. Messi is better.
 
From the Guardian's comments section:

"I think the difference is Messi makes you forget how annoying Barcelona are, whereas Ronaldo reminds you how annoying Real Madrid are..."
 
I was reading Balagues column, he's said Ronaldo has lost a lot of weight (upper-body bulk) to keep his pace as a CF now, I thought he looked a bit skinnier now than what he used to.

But now he has lost three kilos and made his body leaner with less muscle, especially in the upper part of his body, and he has built up the lower part of his body in order to maintain the explosive pace that will make him a great centre-forward.
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Only 1/2 a stone lost though, I wonder if he will get bullied a bit more by defenders if he loses more.

Messi obviously > Ronaldo and there's a big gulf and always has been, but you need to remember Ronaldo is a few years older too, and Messi will play deeper in his 30s whilst Ronaldo will play CF so I think the whole goals argument will be again a big talking point.
 
TheNewEra said:
I was reading Balagues column, he's said Ronaldo has lost a lot of weight (upper-body bulk) to keep his pace as a CF now, I thought he looked a bit skinnier now than what he used to.



Only 1/2 a stone lost though, I wonder if he will get bullied a bit more by defenders if he loses more.

Messi obviously > Ronaldo and there's a big gulf and always has been, but you need to remember Ronaldo is a few years older too, and Messi will play deeper in his 30s whilst Ronaldo will play CF so I think the whole goals argument will be again a big talking point.
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I wouldn't bet against Messi still scoring a feck load of goals, even if he had to play FB tbh. Moving to CM shouldn't be an issue
 
The question which of the two is better never even appeared to me. Messi has something that no other player has, something that makes me think he's not from this world. Compared to him Ronaldo looks normal and human. Even though his numbers aren't that far off, in my opinion the gap between Messi and Ronaldo is as big as the gap between Ronaldo and the rest.

I find it hard to imagine that anyone has ever been as good as Messi.
 
TheNewEra said:
I was reading Balagues column, he's said Ronaldo has lost a lot of weight (upper-body bulk) to keep his pace as a CF now, I thought he looked a bit skinnier now than what he used to.



Only 1/2 a stone lost though, I wonder if he will get bullied a bit more by defenders if he loses more.

Messi obviously > Ronaldo and there's a big gulf and always has been, but you need to remember Ronaldo is a few years older too, and Messi will play deeper in his 30s whilst Ronaldo will play CF so I think the whole goals argument will be again a big talking point.
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Yeah, Messi will move even further back over time (already has) over time while Ronaldo will become more and more of an out and out striker. I don't agree with stats being the sole barometer anyway but it will make even less sense when their positions move so far apart.

As for the comparison, I've never really felt there's much of a contest. As brilliant as Ronaldo is, and he's been a wonderful footballer, Messi has that otherworldly genius that you only come across once or twice in a lifetime of watching a sport. He does things others just cannot with an effortlessness and consistency that they can't.
 
I think Messi is clearly the better footballer. Matches Ronaldo's stats whilst also offering more in the build up process and playing a 'more attractive' style of football too. What makes this debate difficult however is considering that you could arguably swap Ronaldo at Madrid for any player in history and they would not match his output and to a certain extent ability to affect how the opposition set-up to counter him. In this respect he's as good as it's reasonably possible to be in his role. You could argue of course that players like Benzema and Rooney have had to sacrifice themselves for this, but equally Messi is prone to letting his teammates put in the effort on his behalf.

As a pure number 9, then the original Ronaldo is as good as anyone I've seen, and I prefer him as a footballer to Cristiano, but you'd find it hard to argue that Madrid would be as good if he'd played instead of Cristiano the past 6 years, assuming even he hadn't been injury prone.
 
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Pass and Move said:
Want to explain your thoughts a little more?
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Its subjective. If he managed to score 4x goals in La Liga back then, when all the teams were more in the same level, nowadays a guy with his speed and control of the ball would destroy every single defense with no need of the team to play entirely for him, as happens with cristiano.

Sometimes Cristiano damages Madrid because they try to serve him all the time. If Marco Asensio finished the play instead of passing the ball to Ronaldo (who missed) the story would've been different.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Madrid would be times better with R9 instead of CR7 if he was fine phisically.
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It won't be better per se but the team would play differently. For one thing the team wouldn't need as much space in behind because Cronaldo dictated the way Madrid attacked and they relied mostly on counters because he is the best counter attacking player I have ever seen so the team adjusted for him, but that came with it's downsides, especially against teams that played very tight lines. Also with CRonaldo in his prime you needed a CF to occupy the cbs so that he could do his second runs. Essentially the CF ie Benzema becomes a place holder for him. This meant that even when he played on the left he never was really a winger and was always more of a striker, especially considering almost all of his heat maps and average positions showed that he was the furthest Madrid player up the pitch and was more central than wide.

With R9 in his prime I think the team would play better generally and be able to play through the centre a lot more and be better against packed defences. It depends what you want really. CR is alos much better aerially than R9 so again you lose that added attacking option but I suppose you can say R9 was just such a physical monster that his plan A would work 99% of the time. I am sure that if R9 played for these current super teams he would get 60+ goals a season. Football is easier for the top stars now than when R9 played.
 
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Didn't watch the game but I heard Julia Roberts was very excited to meet Ronaldo.

Word says Messi said hi to her and she gave him an autograph.

Ronaldo 1 Messi 0
 
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