Ronaldo can win the next World Cup for all I care but Messi will always be the best footballer of our generation, and I ain't even a Messi fan.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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The best manager ever certainly knows nothing when it comes to footballers, at least according to the Messi cult.
Depends on how he would win it. If he wins it alla Maradona in '86 or Garrincha in '62, then I think that would put him above Messi. If he wins it like this Euros, then it might reopen the debate again, but still Messi would be greater in my eyes.
What do you mean by him maturing earlier ? In Ronaldos first 3 seasons at man Utd he scored 27 goals . In Messi's first 3 he scored 26.
Ignoring that Sporting season again?
This is just ridiculous . He bought him , of course he's going to say that .
Need i remind you who else he has bought and what he once said about Phil Jones ? I much prefer quotes from players who played against/ with both.
The players Sir Alex has signed over the years, yet it always goes back to Ronaldo.
As for that Phil Jones quote, maybe he was drunk or something, he certainly hasn't repeatedly made the same point.
The bolded part in Fergie's comment is perfectly true. Ronaldo's longevity at the top level is what distinguishes him from other European greats who were arguably more talented or had a higher peak but didn't have in them 10+ world class seasons. Ronaldo's fitness, hunger and consistency are truly extraordinary.
The point is that his opinion is biased. Any friends / teammates are going to choose their buddy.
SAF is biased, so are Messi fans or those who for some reason dislike Ronaldo. Everyone is biased to an extent.
I think that there is some argument on Messi maturing earlier than Ronaldo. For example, I would say that both became world class in 2006-2007 despite that Messi was almost 2 years younger.
Messi's goal per match ratio is quite higher than Ronaldo's, though if we count only their peak years, then it's goal rate is still higher, but the difference is smaller.
You also need to add the fact that Messi played for a better team virtually in all his career bar 2006-2007 and 2007-2008. His team created more chances and was more dominant than Ronaldo's. On the other hand, we have to add the fact that Ronaldo takes much more shoots than Messi.
Considering all things, Messi and Ronaldo are equally good at goalscoring. But if you consider their all round play, then Messi quite easily wins. He also has an advantage when it comes to trophies: 4 UCL vs 3 UCL (3-3 taking into account only the years when they contributed a lot for those trophies), 8 league titles vs 4 league titles for Messi (6-4 for Messi taking into account only the years when they contributed a lot for those trophies), 4 cups vs 3 cups for Messi. So, considering the trophies, Messi wins by a wide margin when it comes to club trophies. Ronaldo has an international trophy, something that will remain a black mark on Messi's career, but that cannot compensate for all those more trophies of Messi.
So, I would say:
- Goalscoring: Tie
- Trophies: Advantage Messi
- All round play: Big advantage Messi
- Success on different teams: Advantage Ronaldo
Considering all things, Ronaldo needs to do something very extraordinary in the next few years, to be rated above Messi IMO. I don't think that he'll do so, but it is a big credit for him to actually make this a contest.
He's the least obvious one among those I mentioned, clearly - but as Gio says, he was the player who more than anyone else made the '70 team gel, and he did so by taking up a more indirect role (less finishing, more facilitating, as they say). So, I'd say he deserves a mention, even if he's below the other three in that department.
This I agree with. It's clear as day who the more talented of the two is and for Ronaldo to constantly be able to compete is a determinate to his hard-work. Still think Messi is the better of the two due to how dominant he was at his best, was unbelievable to watch at times.
People are also forgetting that Ronaldo is two years older than Messi, so in theory Messi will have an additional two years at his peak than Ronaldo will. That is going go make a huge difference when it comes to trophies won and goals scored.
Messi will physically decline faster than Ronaldo, there is no doubt in that IMO.
He will likely be able to adjust his game better than Ronaldo when they won't have the speed, power and acceleration they have now.
Agreed, but my point was more or less that people are comparing the achievements of a player that is two years older than the other. Let's compare what Messi has in two years to what Ronaldo has now.
Fergie knows football!
Messi only played well with an exceptional Barca team. On the other hand, with Argentina he messed up again and again.
Messi played better in this year's Copa than Ronaldo did the the Euros. Ronaldo won the cup (well, Portugal did) and Messi didn't. That's how football works.Fergie knows football!
Messi only played well with an exceptional Barca team. On the other hand, with Argentina he messed up again and again.
The goal is to win. It is not a circus, it is a competition. Messi failed.
I strongly disagree with bold. That is exactly what Ronaldo has done time and time again. Watch some of his games for United when we're trailing or his champions league game for Madrid. Even for Portugal, you may not count being on the sidelines a leader but his whole team basically agree that he was an inspiration.
Ive have seen Messi play in a team that is struggling, only for him to turn it around all by himself.
What's this idea that Messi doesn't turn games around? Have people suddenly forgot how reliant Barca was on Messi? He'd turn draws into wins and losses into draws week in week out for them. His cameo turned it around for Barca against PSG. I do agree that he's not the same leader and inspirator as Maradona but this idea that Messi doesn't turn around games is madness.
It depends what you define leadership as, Ronaldo being stroppy doesn't help him and his persona.
Players look to Messi to make the difference and he does more often that not. there's only a few occasions you can say it's not gone Messi's way, but he is still a leader, have you ever heard the phrase "Lead by example", that is a form of leading.
Not all leaders are vocal, football you don't need words you need performances.
I think Ronaldo is a great player but on the pitch he is not Messi but both two great players.
Cal mentions Messi dropping off yet he performs better over 90 minutes than Ronaldo.
La Liga last year:
Champions League last year:
Performance scores Messi: 69.45 Ronaldo 65.485 (If you average out their club stats last year).
You can of course say that the CL is a tougher competition which is true but then you can say equally the goals for Ronaldo were scored against clubs like Malmo. You still can't ignore Ronaldo was the best player in the CL last year. (He just wasn't the best performer in world football).
The goals Ronaldo scored early on in the CL really buffed his attacking numbers in the CL last year.
That's their total score, everything they do on the field, so Messi is the best player in the world last year statistically and in terms of performance you can't ignore that. His performances have been better.
Those who watched the Copa America and Euro like myself would see Messi was also the best at International level.
(No data available for Euro vs Copa by the way that's down to OPTA).
Statistically at the Euro per 90 minute Eden Hazard was the best player.
(Note the totals puts Hazard, Payet, Ronaldo, Griezmann, Kroos as the best 5 performers, perhaps a better representation).
Make of it what you will.
I prefer statistics that arbitrarily deciding what a leader is and using that as an argument. its clear who the greater performer is.
Mourinho knew it too quite clearly
Jose Mourinho: 'If Lionel Messi is the best on the planet, Cristiano Ronaldo is the best in the universe'.
"It is harder to be Cristiano than Messi. Messi grew up in the team where he plays, with the players with whom he plays. Not Cristiano. He was in England, then they put him here in a losing team. He had to grow over the last two years with this team which has been forming," Mourinho said.
"One (Messi) plays as a (number) 9 and roams around in those 50 square metres where the distance to goal is smaller and defence less intense."
"The other (Ronaldo) plays as a winger. How does a winger score as many goals as a number 9? Besides, Ronaldo is a player who is not protected by anyone."
Video with the subtitles below:
Is it possible to check whether there is some difference in Ronaldo's performances under Benitez and under Zidane. I thought that he did better under Zidane.
Both SAF and Mourinho managed Ronaldo. Any chance that might have something to do with it?
Of course. They are biased. Isn't everyone? But the point here is to those that think it's no competition: if it was that ridiculous to compare the two would two great managers be talking about it like that?
While I think you're a tad harsh on both of them, the general point is obviously correct. Some horrific logic on show in this thread.
Mourinho knew it too quite clearly
Jose Mourinho: 'If Lionel Messi is the best on the planet, Cristiano Ronaldo is the best in the universe'.
"It is harder to be Cristiano than Messi. Messi grew up in the team where he plays, with the players with whom he plays. Not Cristiano. He was in England, then they put him here in a losing team. He had to grow over the last two years with this team which has been forming," Mourinho said.
"One (Messi) plays as a (number) 9 and roams around in those 50 square metres where the distance to goal is smaller and defence less intense."
"The other (Ronaldo) plays as a winger. How does a winger score as many goals as a number 9? Besides, Ronaldo is a player who is not protected by anyone."
Video with the subtitles below:
Why would a Real Madrid manager say otherwise? It's probably in his contract to say so? Why would he support his rivals best player
Do enjoy watching Messi play or you don't watch him because he is Ronaldo's rival?
Yes, it's a bit harsh - but if the context is "best ever" they have to be compared to the likes of Di Stefano and Cruyff, and they fall well short of that standard when it comes to being "leaders" (as I understand the term, at least).
I'm out of this thread, though - it's a madhouse. The only ones thriving here are people who get a kick out of saying "my dad's stronger than your dad" over and over again.
So you've seen them both do. Makes sense considering they're top players. The likes of Zidane, Surez, Henry and other top players also do it because that's what elite level footballers do, to varyong degrees and frequency levels.
True. If you want to see absurdly bad logic this is the thread. And the other one that banke laal made and set up to fail.
You can look at performances from a certain date yes.
Here he is before and after Rafas sacking.
please note the bump in score between the two is due to his goal output increasing, not because he was passing better or creating more chances, his general performances were the same, but goal output increased
Before in the league.
After
In relation to Messi & Neymar (Individually) in those periods.
Before Sacking:
After:
Ronaldo improved since Zidanes appointment in the league and cup but Messi was still a better performer by some distance.
Statistics don't lie, Ronaldo does influence the game in terms of finishing off moves but he's not a total footballer.
Any statistician or analyst can tell you that.
Messi was the best player in the League and Cup but Ronaldo outperformed Messi in the CL.
Champions League Comparison.
Before Rafas Sacking:
After Rafas Sacking:
As I point out earlier Ronaldos output in the CL the Malmo game really pushed his numbers forward in the early stages hence his performance score with Rafa in the CL.
From a statistics and performance point of view that's qualitative data and not quantitative. if I choose to record Usain Bolt on a day he has a broken foot, some other athlete may beat him so it's skewed but Ronaldo over the season was the best in the CL.
TLDR Messi the best over the season per 90 minutes, Ronaldo the best in the CL.
Ronaldo better with RAFA in the CL but only because of Malmo, Ronaldo worse with Zidane but had better opponents.
Messi stronger over the year statistically (even internationally) from a performance standpoint and statistically.
Both won the same amount of trophies too.
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That thread became a trainwreck/custerfeck but my intention was not to bring the worst out of people!
To be fair when you post from the position of a fan, then there's no chance the thread will be good. As it'll lead to typical YouTube comment section level fan bickering. May your every following thread be incrementally betterThat thread became a trainwreck/custerfeck but my intention was not to bring the worst out of people!
So, if Gignac shot 5 cm more in the right (and so scored instead of hitting the post), then that would have made Messi better than Ronaldo?
Think all the credit should go to Zagallo rather than Pele. Pele was just tasked with playing in his best position with the some of the best players around in their own positions and it turned into one of the finest expressions of the game. Its like crediting Messi instead of Pep for how Barca work with their stars being spread around the pitch in great positions.
He's better than Ronaldo with the ball, of that there is no doubt. But then again Zico was better with the ball than Pele, was he a better player? football like all sports is all about being effective, not who's the most talented. If not, then we all have to bow down at Best's feet and admit he's the greatest to have ever done it.
I have noticed, some people get really aggressive when it comes to Ronaldo/Messi debate, and want to shoot down the opposition's opinion with a bazooka.To be fair when you post from the position of a fan, then there's no chance the thread will be good. As it'll lead to typical YouTube comment section level fan bickering. May your every following thread be incrementally better
Zico Vs Pele is nowhere the level as Messi Vs Ronaldo though.
Statistics tell you Messi is more effective than Ronaldo, the debate Pro-Ronaldo for so long has been he's better in the air and he's done it in another country. Now it's that Eder has won the European cup for Portugal.
When you have to give credit to Ronaldo for something Eder did there's something wrong but that's football. Ronaldo would have had to have pulled some memorable performances to put his name up there in the Euros vs big opposition, almost a Maradona vs England performance but he didn't.
I've not seen something that Ronaldo has done that makes me go "Oh my god" in maybe 6 years now.
I don't feel the same excitement with Ronaldo and looking at numbers, performances and statistics too, Ronaldo isn't doing anything that Messi isn't.
The only number Ronaldo is ahead on is goals, but when you compare the areas the players occupy, their touch maps in a game it's obvious Messi is a playmaker more these days not a finisher but because with Xavi leaving its now Messi who has to do this role.
Filling Xavis role is never easy, but Messi is doing it to a very high standard, probably a better long passer than he was. but Ronaldo with age is now a more central striker who doesn't dribble and is there for goals, could Messi do what Ronaldo is doing? Yes, and he could do it better because he's a much better dribbler than Ronaldo is.
sorry meant I haven't*. "Turning games around" goes to Ronaldo.
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