I thought you were talking about the Copa?
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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I don't know what I'm talking about anymore tbh...
Lol... guess we'll leave it at that
I can not believe the arrogance shown by Messi fans, any iota of logic/stat/argument which shows Ronaldo having done an iota better than their Messiah, is out-rightly dismissed as "nonsense", "stupid" & people not agreeing with them are accused of "being thick" and "ignorant" etc. It's like a cult, they do not even agree for a fair debate, when clearly both sides have their cases & now Ronaldo seems to clearly have an ace over Messi now, which gives him a clear edge.
Also, the posts which say Argentina had an ordinary defense with Macheranho, Otamendi, Zabaletta etc.
At the end of their careers and when it's all looked back on, winning an international trophy, captaining your team to their first major international trophy in their history will have Ronaldo placed on a pedestal above Messi.
It's as simple as that. Now it all depends whether Messi can come out of retirement and win something for Argentina. If not, Ronaldo will always have a major plus on his side in the argument.
There's a reason Pele and Maradona are held as number one and two in people's opinions and that's because they won titles with their countries.
In 20 years time, when people look back at Ronaldo leading Portugal to 2016 glory, they'll see his headed goals (his leap against Wales will be iconic) and his back flick goal against Hungary.
As I've said before, Messi has done everything in his comfort zone, at one club. Ronaldo has done it in two leagues and at international level now.
Ronaldo has surpassed Messi.
It's as simple as that. Now it all depends whether Messi can come out of retirement and win something for Argentina. If not, Ronaldo will always have a major plus on his side in the argument.
There's a reason Pele and Maradona are held as number one and two in people's opinions and that's because they won titles with their countries.
In 20 years time, when people look back at Ronaldo leading Portugal to 2016 glory, they'll see his headed goals (his leap against Wales will be iconic) and his back flick goal against Hungary.
As I've said before, Messi has done everything in his comfort zone, at one club. Ronaldo has done it in two leagues and at international level now.
Ronaldo has surpassed Messi.
I can not believe the arrogance shown by Messi fans, any iota of logic/stat/argument which shows Ronaldo having done an iota better than their Messiah, is out-rightly dismissed as "nonsense", "stupid" & people not agreeing with them are accused of "being thick" and "ignorant" etc. It's like a cult, they do not even agree for a fair debate, when clearly both sides have their cases & now Ronaldo seems to clearly have an ace over Messi now, which gives him a clear edge.
Also, the posts which say Argentina had an ordinary defense with Macheranho, Otamendi, Zabaletta etc.
The Messi cult is really weird, for them it's not even up for discussion who is the GOAT and that's really fickle.
Bingo
I'd rather think it is because they were the best footballers.
But plenty to do with them winning the tournament, hence the discussion.
You really couldn't work that out without me explaining it to you?
He had less to do with them winning the tournament than the likes of Pepe, Nani and maybe one or two others and not only because, y'know, they won the final without him.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Im curious, is there anyone outside Madrid/United/Portugal camp that said how Ronaldo is a better player then Messi? Tried to find youtube video with quotes and i found one but there is nothing there bar one comment from Fernando Torres where he says Ronaldo is the best in the world.
No matter how much you wish it was true it simply isn't.
Tell me, why do people put Cruyff and Best above Gerd Muller or Iniesta? Two are world cup winners, world cup final goalscorers and the other two won feck all with their countries. And again, using your ridiculously flawed and biased logic we'd have to say that guys like Zidane will be above Messi now, aye? All time great, world cup winner, euro winner, CL winner, ballon d'Or winner. Won everything for club and country. Must be better than Messi.
I'm thankful that football isn't quite as simplistic as you seem to think it it is.
I do laugh at the ignorant nonsense of how Messi has only done it in Spain and Ronaldo's proven himself in England. Look at the best players in the EPL... Aguero, Hazard, Ozil, Silva, Sanchez et al. I think it's safe to say that Messi would do just fine in that league. The arrogance though (as always) is astounding. We're actually undermining an all time great's ability because he hasn't played against the likes of West Brom and Bournemouth. Give me a break.
You're also severely mistaken if you think people consider Maradona as the GOAT solely because of 86.
If there was ever any incentive for Messi to come out of retirement and win the world cup, it was this.
The topscorer and top assist provider for Portugal in the tournament somehow had little to do with them winning it.
The topscorer and top assist provider for Portugal in the tournament somehow had little to do with them winning it.
Yet, despite that, still behind Pepe and Nani in terms of performances over the tournament (and obviously in the final too).
Yet this somehow counts as him leading his side to silverware, to the point where the quality of his performances on this stage "settles" the Ronaldo/Messi debate. Go figure.
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Anyone who thinks Ronaldo is better, doesn't play football or lacks footballing intelligence for me. It is a non debate, I don't see how anyone can watch either of them over the course of their careers and come to the conclusion Ronaldo is the better player. It is unfathomable to me.
I used to be the biggest Ronaldo fanboi from about 03-08 and I would argue that at his peak, he was a fantastic rival to Messi and sometimes outperformed him but the 'better' player - no chance. Messi does everything better bar heading/skill moves and in terms of penalties, both have had their fair share of embarrassing misses.
You just have to love the modern game, where misplaced shoots turn into assist.
@Raees agree with everything.
@Raees agree with everything.
Another example of the Messi cult at work. I guess you think Sir Alex lacks footballing intelligence.
If Ronaldo winning the euros is the incentive Messi needs to come out of retirement and win the World Cup then that is pretty sad. That attitude would be pretty pathetic.
You see, Cruyff and Di Stefano were both greatest players of their generation, but since they didn't win any major international trophies, they would be always considered 1 tier below Pele and Maradona. Its not fair but thats the way it is.
probably the most fustrating thing for Ronaldo fans when comparing these two is that they literally can't discuss football, skills, technique and everything else about the game itself. it's purely stats and math because Ronaldo doesn't stand a chance otherwise and they know it, that's why they avoid it. but the funniest thing is, after years of convincing others that Portugal is a shit team who would be lost without Ronaldo, after years of finishing second in every possible qualification group with Portugal - they finally played without him and won their biggest trophy ever 
and then one of his fanboys opened a poll that just ended up showing that vast majority of caf still regard Messi as a superior player
and then one of his fanboys opened a poll that just ended up showing that vast majority of caf still regard Messi as a superior player One thing I've noticed about Messi fans that just dislike Ronaldo is their patronizing tone in discuss their skill levels. Suddenly it becomes laughable to even compare the two.
I don't want to generalise but most Ronaldo fans are willing to discuss who is better while there's a sizeable chunk of Messi fans that just go "*green smiley* there's no comparision! Messi wins!"
Personally, anyone who can't see this summer (and maybe even 2016 so far) being a win for Ronaldo over Messi I feel like they are heavily biased towards Messi.
I don't want to generalise but most Ronaldo fans are willing to discuss who is better while there's a sizeable chunk of Messi fans that just go "*green smiley* there's no comparision! Messi wins!"
Personally, anyone who can't see this summer (and maybe even 2016 so far) being a win for Ronaldo over Messi I feel like they are heavily biased towards Messi.
probably the most fustrating thing for Ronaldo fans when comparing these two is that they literally can't discuss football, skills, technique and everything else about the game itself. it's purely stats and math because Ronaldo doesn't stand a chance otherwise and they know it, that's why they avoid it. but the funniest thing is, after years of convincing others that Portugal is a shit team who would be lost without Ronaldo, after years of finishing second in every possible qualification group with Portugal - they finally played without him and won their biggest trophy ever
Ronaldo:
Better Header. Better Long shots. Better Strength. Better off the ball movement. Blistering acceleration (Messi has better pace with the ball). Way better leader - literaly has an aura surrounding him.
Messi:
Better passer. Better play-maker. Better free kicks. Better dribbling.
But the point is everything I've said above is an opinion. We can argue endlessly about it. Trophies and accolades, however, are facts. That's why people bring up the "math" you talk about. I don't see why you are so butt hurt about them anyway since Messi has more Ballon'dors.
I've long felt that Messi was best compared to a shortarsed Pele as type of player goes and what you can expect him to deliver.
After vacillating somewhat on how to pidgeonhole Ronaldo, I think he compares best as Van Basten with longevity.
After vacillating somewhat on how to pidgeonhole Ronaldo, I think he compares best as Van Basten with longevity.
come on. ffs.
I liked what I saw of him on the touchline in the final, it was a good showing for a captain, but one swallow doesn't make a summer.
Outside of that one game, everyone on earth would have agreed that he is a sulky egocentric twat who has to make an effort to celebrate anything but his own goals.
That's a 'Redknappism' right there.
thank you for linking to quotes about that one game already acknowledged. It is not sufficient to erase the enduring narrative of more than a decade of vain self-absorption.
#leader
That's how you see it. There's a reason his teammates are in love with him. The guy is a leader. He is a winner inside out. He truly has a never give up attitude that rubs on his teammates.
What we saw on the touchline was not the one instance of Ronaldo showing leadership. It was the explosion of all that leadership usually kept on the pitch on display because he couldn't play.
If Messi was off injured he'd have gone to his room and sat in the dugout, head tucked in his jacket. (or retired from football hehe). Ronaldo was influencing his teammates off the pitch. I can't think of any current footballer that has an aura like that. Zlatan? I'm not sure.
Pretty much all the players he played with talk only good things about him. So probably, he isn't the egocentric we say he is.
Last night also pretty much puts to bin the 'Ronaldo would much rather win a Ballon D'Or than an important trophy' claims which have been addressed to him for a long time.
What is this awesome aura you speak of? Couldn't see anything on the telly
Imagine what's its like if Ronaldo become a manager one day
Probably a fair point.
Just look at penalties. Even putting aside Messi missing vs Ronaldo scoring, the difference in leadership was so big. Ronaldo was there motivating his teammates, putting Moutinho (who despite is decent of them didn't want to take the pen) to take then pen, while Messi was there speechless, like a dead robot.
Ronaldo showed true leadership yesterday. Messi vs Chile was like Ronaldo vs Chelsea. Something that you do when you are young and emotions get the better of you, but not if you are team's captain.
how come Ronaldo's aura only works when he doesn't play? why didn't it work 2014 or 2012?
That's like saying "how come Messi's accuracy didn't work in the copa final?" ...
you still didn't answer my question. so it works only if Eder comes into the game or...?
It's an important factor, no question. But Pelé's and Maradona's legacy is not down to the simple fact that they won those WC titles, as was implied in that post I quoted. These titles are linked to their greatness because what they did to help their teams win them. Things you can't measure in statistics and title collections.
Pelé the 17 year old mega-prodigy seriously delivered on his promise in 1958 (also scoring one of the greatest goals in WC history) and as the figurehead of the 1970 all star team as well. Maradona made world football his own in 1986 and gave what was probably the best individual performance of the tournament's history. They didn't just "win a title", they contributed legendary performances to that achievement.
So while results and titles are important of course, they alone are not enough to elevate anyone into those spheres. And that's the point the other poster had to ignore to claim Ronaldo has surpassed Messi - who ticks all the boxes to be one of the greatest of all time, bar that one - with that title.
It's like a bad lawyer's argument, an insistence on a simple & undeniable fact in one's favour, leaving out crucial context to score a point.
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