Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Renegade said:
that’s the silliness of the general argument between these 2. Can people pull up 5 world class performances from Ronaldo that doesn’t involve him scoring?

Ronaldo is one of the greatest goal scorers of all time no doubting. I have huge respect for his achievements but I can’t ignore what my eyes see regardless of numbers.

Even if Messi had won the 2014 World Cup which was very possible, this argument would still be continuing but under different criteria from Ronaldo fans. Ultimately Messi & Ronaldo fans will
Not be convinced otherwise regardless of what happens and who ever scores more or finishes there career with more.
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The game's all about end product these days, that's the reason Messi and Ronaldo are allowed to do what they want on the pitch. Intangibles don't matter that much anymore for attackers, or else flair players like Ozil will be on the same level as Messi.

If Messi were to do everything else he does but stop producing goals and assists, it will be a big problem for Barca.
 
He'sRaldo said:
The game's all about end product these days, that's the reason Messi and Ronaldo are allowed to do what they want on the pitch. Intangibles don't matter that much anymore for attackers, or else flair players like Ozil will be on the same level as Messi.

If Messi were to do everything else he does but stop producing goals and assists, it will be a big problem for Barca.
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So do you rate Lukaku higher than a Firminho?
 
Kappa123 said:
Honest question: If Ronaldo is actually so great then how come it's only Messi who gets compared with Pele, Maradona, R9, etc? It sounds absurd to compare CR7 with those, and I realised that's because nobody ever does it. Because it just sounds wrong, doesn't it. He's clearly not that level of footballer and never has been.

Whereas Messi fits right in with that company it has to be said. Sometimes it really is just that simple.
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Guessing you missed the countless threads on this forum comparing him to past historical players.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Intangibles don't matter that much anymore for attackers, or else flair players like Ozil will be on the same level as Messi.
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Well - no. He wouldn't have been considered in the same bracket in any age.

But you're right that intangibles have become much less important in debates over who's the better player. Contemporary debates tend to focus on sheer numbers to a ludicrous degree.
 
MrEleson said:
Guessing you missed the countless threads on this forum comparing him to past historical players.
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I think its the fact that high-profile players and managers generally don't discuss C. Ronaldo as the greatest of all time while Messi has been discussed in that breath since he hit his prime. Fergie said recently that in 2009 Messi was the best in the world and now he's the greatest of all time. For me Ronaldo is obviously one of the greatest, but overall his skill on the ball is not quite on the same level as the other goats.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well - no. He wouldn't have been considered in the same bracket in any age.

But you're right that intangibles have become much less important in debates over who's the better player. Contemporary debates tend to focus on sheer numbers to a ludicrous degree.
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If Ozil consistently had the same numbers as Messi he'd be viewed on a similar level for sure, because he's also aesthetically very pleasing to watch. That's why I chose a player like him as an example.

In fact, you could say that it's those crazy numbers which set those two apart, of course fueled by their exceptional skill.
 
Renegade said:
that’s the silliness of the general argument between these 2. Can people pull up 5 world class performances from Ronaldo that doesn’t involve him scoring?

Ronaldo is one of the greatest goal scorers of all time no doubting. I have huge respect for his achievements but I can’t ignore what my eyes see regardless of numbers.

Even if Messi had won the 2014 World Cup which was very possible, this argument would still be continuing but under different criteria from Ronaldo fans. Ultimately Messi & Ronaldo fans will
Not be convinced otherwise regardless of what happens and who ever scores more or finishes there career with more.
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But is that not what happened with Ronaldo? Considering they are practically dead even at club level many said "who ever wins something for there country will be the Greatest" pundits and fans all said this especially in 2014 leading up to the final they were all ready to close up any comparison threads yet then in 2016 Ronaldo wins a major trophy for his country and the subsequent tie breaker is achieved along with having done a 3 peat in the CL yet right on cue the narrative changed and it does not matter he achieved international glory.

I guarantee had Messi won a Copa or the WC and Ronaldo won nothing for Portugal this thread would have been closed that day.

This Is an endless debate.
 
SportingCP96 said:
But is that not what happened with Ronaldo? Considering they are practically dead even at club level many said "who ever wins something for there country will be the Greatest" pundits and fans all said this especially in 2014 leading up to the final they were all ready to close up any comparison threads yet then in 2016 Ronaldo wins a major trophy for his country and the subsequent tie breaker is achieved along with having done a 3 peat in the CL yet right on cue the narrative changed and it does not matter he achieved international glory.

I guarantee had Messi won a Copa or the WC and Ronaldo won nothing for Portugal this thread would have been closed that day.

This Is an endless debate.
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I can’t say I’ve been following the debate pre 2014. I can’t argue with that though mate, their fans will side by there favourite and not be convinced otherwise regardless of what happens.

I agree with the bolder. We’ll miss them both when their gone. Talking down the achievements of both titans to prove a point is ridiculous really. They’re both football treasures. What Ronaldo is doing at his age is incredible.
 
Kinsella said:
That's because Ronaldo doesn't have the ability of Messi.
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And Messi doesn't have the mental ability of Cristiano Ronaldo, not even close.

I'd have loved to see the numbers Ronaldo could have got if he had Xavi & Iniesta setting up chances chances for him vs getafe 24/7 instead of Benzema and Modric.
 
Bebestation said:
And Messi doesn't have the mental ability of Cristiano Ronaldo, not even close.

I'd have loved to see the numbers Ronaldo could have got if he had Xavi & Iniesta setting up chances chances for him vs getafe 24/7 instead of Benzema and Modric.
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I don’t think that Barcelona side would have been made better by swapping Messi with Ronaldo
 
Bebestation said:
And Messi doesn't have the mental ability of Cristiano Ronaldo, not even close.

I'd have loved to see the numbers Ronaldo could have got if he had Xavi & Iniesta setting up chances chances for him vs getafe 24/7 instead of Benzema and Modric.
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This has to be a wum surely?
 
Posh Red said:
I don’t think that Barcelona side would have been made better by swapping Messi with Ronaldo
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I never said the Barcelona side would be better - I said that Ronaldo would have more numbers because that's all he has. I'm not taking anything away from the Barcelona lot.
 
It has to be Messi though. The way he can dribble past 5 or 6 players and score a goal, his playmaking, he has even improved his freekick numbers drastically the last couple of years, while Ronaldo has been garbage in taking them for years now.

Ronaldo is one of the best players of all time, no doubt, but sometimes, you have to accept that someone is just better than you.
 
Bebestation said:
And Messi doesn't have the mental ability of Cristiano Ronaldo, not even close.
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Mental strength you mean. Perhaps not, but the game is called football so it's hardly surprising that most people place what a player can do with the ball at his feet before anything else.

Also, Ronaldo's leadership capability is something he developed over time. He didn't have it from the get go.

Bebestation said:
I'd have loved to see the numbers Ronaldo could have got if he had Xavi & Iniesta setting up chances chances for him vs getafe 24/7 instead of Benzema and Modric.
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That's hard to say in a sense because Ronaldo would've had to have played a much bigger role in general play had he played for Barcelona. I'm not sure he's suited to that.

Messi fans can also quite reasonably claim that they would've loved to have seen how much more he would've won had he played under better managers.
 
Shamana said:
I think its the fact that high-profile players and managers generally don't discuss C. Ronaldo as the greatest of all time while Messi has been discussed in that breath since he hit his prime. Fergie said recently that in 2009 Messi was the best in the world and now he's the greatest of all time. For me Ronaldo is obviously one of the greatest, but overall his skill on the ball is not quite on the same level as the other goats.
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ive seen plenty of pundits give Ronaldo that acclaim though. Ruud Gullit just said earlier this year that he thought Ronaldo was the best of all time. I’ve also seen others speak of him in the discussion as the greatest.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Ronaldo and Messi have been compared head to head there whole career. Both are by far the best of their generation and for years Ronaldo was better than Messi and vise vera so it is IMPOSSIBLE that one is compared to the others and the other is not when Messi has been compared to Ronaldo his whole career and vise versa. Messi is on the Mount Rushmore because of his brilliant talent, Ronaldo is there for both his talent and his unbelievable Mentality, that Brady and MJ mentality. Both are great and Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, and Messi are the 4 greatest of all time. The order is based on personal opinion.

IMO Ronaldo and Messi complete the Mount Rushmore with Pele and Maradona all for different reasons. In general though no one will ever do and break the records like Ronaldo and Messi have done year in year out. They changed football and made scoring 50 goals a season the norm. If they score 30 goals in a season many would consider that a "bad" season. That is how high both of there standards are and is something many won't grasp until they are out the game for good.
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I was listening to an interesting podcast with Garry Kasparov and remembered he made an analogy with the best chest players of all time and the best football players. His 'Mount Rushmore' was Maradona, Pele and Messi and that's what the overwhelming majority is. No matter how many goals or accomplishments Ronaldo has and will go on to have - he's never had the obvious genius that Messi possesses and never will and that's just the way it is.
 
Wow using chess players opinions now :lol:
 
Kinsella said:
That's because Ronaldo doesn't have the ability of Messi.
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Its a cute post until you realize Messi is the second best player of his generation. That in itself is no shame though. He would be #! in any other era that did not have Ronaldo in it.
 
Renegade said:
I can’t say I’ve been following the debate pre 2014. I can’t argue with that though mate, their fans will side by there favourite and not be convinced otherwise regardless of what happens.

I agree with the bolder. We’ll miss them both when their gone. Talking down the achievements of both titans to prove a point is ridiculous really. They’re both football treasures. What Ronaldo is doing at his age is incredible.
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I agree. Its something I will tell my kids about. Both are idols. Don't matter who you prefer just enjoy the last few years.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Its a cute post until you realize Messi is the second best player of his generation. That in itself is no shame though. He would be #! in any other era that did not have Ronaldo in it.
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Whatever about it being a 'cute' post, it's an accurate one.
 
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MrEleson said:
ive seen plenty of pundits give Ronaldo that acclaim though. Ruud Gullit just said earlier this year that he thought Ronaldo was the best of all time. I’ve also seen others speak of him in the discussion as the greatest.
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Really? Feels like it's 95% of pundits who say Messi, I hear Ronaldo has great work etic but hardly ever that he is the GOAT like Messi is.


This footwork by Messi today is sublime:

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/dy9803/messis_quick_footwork/

Destroying a team Ronaldo failed against. :)
 
Kinsella said:
Whatever about it being 'cute' post, it's an accurate one.
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Because you concluded it was? Because every box checks in Ronaldos favor bar the fact that I agree Messi is more talented though that does not equate to Ronaldo being talentless as he is a very gifted footballer. If the measurement of talent alone was the sole equation of determining who was a better player then R9 or Ronaldinho are the two greatest players of all time.

Furthermore more proof of that is shown in other major sports. Joe Montana and hell even Aaron Rodgers are undoubtedly more talented then Brady yet Brady is undeniably the GOAT. What is one of the main things that make MJ the GOAT? The intangibles, the things you can't physically see, the mentality of a player. The ability to appear in the biggest moments and show up when your team needs you most. Ronaldo Is a landslide winner in that department. Yet I have no doubt you and other Messi fans will dismiss that fact because it does not fit YOUR criteria. Messi may well be the more TALENTED player of the two but that does not make him the BETTER player of the two.

Lastly Messi in the 2016 Portugal team would get eliminated in the group stage or at best R16. You and I both know that.
 
SportingCP96 said:
I agree gotta love these friendly performances. Hopefully the same can be done in a competitive game.;)
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I'll give you this one Sporting, I don't give as much clout to friendlies but love to have fun in this thread ;)
 
SportingCP96 said:
Because you concluded it was? Because every box checks in Ronaldos favor bar the fact that I agree Messi is more talented though that does not equate to Ronaldo being talentless as he is a very gifted footballer. If the measurement of talent alone was the sole equation of determining who was a better player then R9 or Ronaldinho are the two greatest players of all time.

Furthermore more proof of that is shown in other major sports. Joe Montana and hell even Aaron Rodgers are undoubtedly more talented then Brady yet Brady is undeniably the GOAT. What is one of the main things that make MJ the GOAT? The intangibles, the things you can't physically see, the mentality of a player. The ability to appear in the biggest moments and show up when your team needs you most. Ronaldo Is a landslide winner in that department. Yet I have no doubt you and other Messi fans will dismiss that fact because it does not fit YOUR criteria. Messi may well be the more TALENTED player of the two but that does not make him the BETTER player of the two.

Lastly Messi in the 2016 Portugal team would get eliminated in the group stage or at best R16. You and I both know that.
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MJ was a god in the finals, Ronaldo absolutely isn't. MJ wasn't outshined by Pippen on the biggest stage possible the way Ronaldo was usually outshined by Ramos or Bale. Ronaldo's mentality is closer to Westbrook. He'll still take the free kicks, or in Westbrook's case the final shot even if there are better options. Hell of a talent, physical freak, but a crappy attitude at times and they both love to chase personal stats

ANd Ronaldo wouldn't have gotten service on those ARG teams, they had zero midfield and could barely get the ball up the pitch without him as Messi had to play deeper than ever.

People whine about a stacked Juventus team and Ronaldo suffering because he isn't getting service there, it would be far worse than Argentina.

Ronaldo couldn't beat Chile either and also lost in penalties when they recently played a few years ago.
 
GifLord said:
And yet scoring 7 against farmers isn't as laughable? :confused:
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It is a EURO qualifier...one which we have got second place in and took us until the last day to confirm qualification.
 
GifLord said:
Does it matter? Even if it's a friendly do you think players will put on a half assed display?
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The mere thought of players 'not turning up' to represent their national side in a competitive game is laughable.
 
Daysleeper said:
MJ was a god in the finals, Ronaldo absolutely isn't. MJ wasn't outshined by Pippen on the biggest stage possible the way Ronaldo was usually outshined by Ramos or Bale. Ronaldo's mentality is closer to Westbrook. He'll still take the free kicks, or in Westbrook's case the final shot even if there are better options. Hell of a talent, physical freak, but a crappy attitude at times and they both love to chase personal stats

ANd Ronaldo wouldn't have gotten service on those ARG teams, they had zero midfield and could barely get the ball up the pitch without him as Messi had to play deeper than ever.

People whine about a stacked Juventus team and Ronaldo suffering because he isn't getting service there, it would be far worse than Argentina.

Ronaldo couldn't beat Chile either and also lost in penalties when they recently played a few years ago.
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Please. His record in the CL knockouts is absolutely insane. He has led Madrid to finals on more then one occasion.

You just have to look back at last season down 2-0 to Atletico and the man literally scored all 3 goals to lead the comeback against a fantastic defensive team. Messi did nothing as Barca choked a 3-0 and 4-0 lead in the knockouts in back to back seasons. Down 2-0 to Atletico I would bet my bottom dollar Messi disappears from the game.
 
SportingCP96 said:
Please. His record in the CL knockouts is absolutely insane. He has led Madrid to finals on more then one occasion.

You just have to look back at last season down 2-0 to Atletico and the man literally scored all 3 goals to lead the comeback against a fantastic defensive team. Messi did nothing as Barca choked a 3-0 and 4-0 lead in the knockouts in back to back seasons. Down 2-0 to Atletico I would bet my bottom dollar Messi disappears from the game.
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Which game have you been watching? He was their best player against Liverpool and Roma
 
SportingCP96 said:
Please. His record in the CL knockouts is absolutely insane. He has led Madrid to finals on more then one occasion.

You just have to look back at last season down 2-0 to Atletico and the man literally scored all 3 goals to lead the comeback against a fantastic defensive team. Messi did nothing as Barca choked a 3-0 and 4-0 lead in the knockouts in back to back seasons. Down 2-0 to Atletico I would bet my bottom dollar Messi disappears from the game.
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Messi created every single chance against Liverpool in that second leg. Every. Single. One.

With Ronaldo Barca wouldn’t even have a lead going into anfield.
 
Daysleeper said:
Messi created every single chance against Liverpool in that second leg. Every. Single. One.

With Ronaldo Barca wouldn’t even have a lead going into anfield.
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Even you don't believe that ffs:lol: He went to Turin the prior season and did as my boy Shannon Sharp would say a "Virtuoso" performance which helped give them a 3-0 lead. and then had Balls of Steel to put Juve comeback attempt to bed in the 93 minute.
 
GifLord said:
Which game have you been watching? He was their best player against Liverpool and Roma
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Grab the game by the neck and say "I am Lionel fecking Messi this is not happening in back to back season" and put the game to bed. Put it in your own hands and take over the game when your team needs you most.

In contrast Ronaldo embraced the fightback as he LOVES the headlines its what drives him. He didn't hand it to Dybala or whoever to lead them back HE led them back. He grabbed that game by the neck and ended it. After he scored the first goal EVERYONE knew how it was going to end and Atletico looked shook.

He did the same vs Sweden in Stockholm.
 
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