Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Daysleeper]

Every player in Europe plays against the small teams, so Ronaldo isn't gifted in that regard.
Also Ronaldo has been playing most of his career in Portugal with companions such as Postiga, Hugo Almeida, etc. He would die for half Higuain.

I think Messi and Ronaldo records are both amazing, but for the sake of showing how the "Ronaldo only has it because he plays monthly against the Vatican" let's see Messi:

**************

69 goals in 91 games, it's great and he doesn't play against Sealand like Ronaldo, so let's see:

Ronaldo has no goals vs Brazil, how pathetic, in a grand total of 3 games (2 friendlies and 1 competitive).
5 goals vs Brazil
Wow 5 goals in 11 games (6 friendlies, 2 in Copa America, 3 in WC qualifying) the many WC qualifiers and the yearly Copa Amerricas over the years? No, all goals are from the friendlies. Weird.

Ronaldo has 3 goals in 2 games vs Switzerland, one a WC qualifier that qualified Portugal for WC and the other was the Nations League semifinal.
3 goals vs Switzerland
A good european team and Messi has the same amount of goals! Oh, was a friendly

Ronaldo has 3 goals in 5 games (3 competitive and 2 friendlies)
2 goals vs Spain
Nice... ah scored in 2 of the 3 friendlies, never played competitive vs Spain

Ronaldo has 1 goal in a friendly vs Croatia, played 3 times (2 friendlies and 1 in Euro)
2 vs Croatia!
2 friendlies and 1 WC game, maybe he... no he scored in the 2 friendlies

Ronaldo never scored vs France! He had 4 games: 2 friendlies, 1 WC semi-final and 1 Euro final where he barely played as he left injured. Sad performances vs a team Portugal didn't beat for 40 years until 2016!
1 goal vs France
Messi did it! 1 Friendly and 1 WC game, maybe he did score in the... nope, he scored in the friendly again. Hmm.

Ronaldo never scored against Germany, the loser! All competitive games, 2 in WC and 2 in Euro.
1 goal vs Germany
Lionel did it again. Messi had 4 games, 2 friendlies and 2 WC games, this time maybe? No, he scored in one of the friendlies. But

Ronaldo has 2 friendlies against Argentina, scored 1 goal.
1 goal vs Portugal
Messi also played those 2 friendlies and also got 1 goal. But Ronaldo was lucky have been partnered with a 31 year old Danny and Hugo Almeida while Messi had to bear up with Lavezzi and that fraud Higuain so it's not fair.

Ronaldo didn't score in 2 friendly games vs Italy, a team Portugal generally does well if you exclude those 30 years Portugal was unable to beat it and all the other remaining ones except the last because God Èder too
Messi didn't too because he never played Italy otherwise it would have been in a competitive game of course.


So in total Messi has 33 goals in 46 friendlies. So 48% of Messi's goals come from friendlies. And Ronaldo in friendlies has 17 goals in 47 games (17% of total). Messi the friendly GOAT.


But look Messi is very good vs a good team such as Uruguay!
4 goals nice! All goals in WC qualifiying! He only needed 8 games vs Uruguay for that. And none in Copa America.
3 goals vs Chile! In 9 games. All goals in WC qualifying, maybe one in the last 10 Copa editions in the last 5 years would have been handy.
3 goals vs Colombia! In 9 games. All goals in WC qualifying.

Who the hell does he score against in Copa America then. Let's see:

1 goal vs Peru
1 goal vs Mexico
2 goals vs Paraguay
3 goals vs Panama
1 goal vs Venezuela
1 goal vs United States

Erm... ok let's see the WC goals

1 goal vs Serbia-Montenegro
1 goal vs Bosnia-Herzegovina
1 goal vs Iran
3 goals vs Nigeria


But but let's see the fraud Ronaldo

Euro final stage goals:

1 goal vs Greece
3 goals vs Netherlands
2 goals vs Czech Republic
2 goals vs Hungary
1 goal vs Wales

Netherlands, Panama, it's the same, it's all about canals.

WC goals:

1 goal vs Iran
1 goal vs North Korea
1 goal vs Ghana
3 goals vs Spain
1 goal vs Morocco

No knockout stage goals ha! Oh wait Messi too. 3 goals in 2 games vs Nigeria is better than 3 goals in 1 game vs Spain that Portugal didn't even win that game so it's a draw.



Messi the clear OG. While Ronaldo has it easy to be honoured to play Andorras in the qualifying forcefully as Portugal isn't unable to break them without him Messi has to lead Argentina to glory in tough friendlies vs Haiti and Hong Kong.
Did I mention yet that Ronaldo was being fed on a plate by world class idols such as Postiga, Hugo Almeida and geriatric Liedson while Messi had to babysit rocks with eyes such as Milito, Tévez, Aguero, Higuain and other log-footed minerals that had the biggest achievement in their carreers when Messi honours them by calling them to the Argentina national team.


*************

This post is supposed to be sarcastic and only half serious.
Messi's record in the national team is fantastic. I don't want to play it down at all.

So is Ronaldo's while always being out down because he happens to play against some teams many people laugh at, like Luxembourg (he scored today vs them), a team that drew vs France in Paris last year before France went on to be WC.
Messi has more goals vs top teams than Ronaldo but if you look well all (!) of them were friendlies and Ronaldo played less games and/or more competitive games vs them than Messi.
Look at Brazil. Messi played them 5 times in competitive games, never scored and had 1 draw and 4 defeats. Ronaldo had only 1 competitive game, a WC game that was a draw.
In the other 2 friendlies Ronaldo had he didn't score too and 1 was a victory and another a defeat. Messi had 6 friendlies, 4 victories and 2 defeats. In those 6 friendlies, he scored in 3 of them (with an hattrick once).
Is Messi good vs Brazil? Yes he is, even if he didn't score in 8 of the 11 games he had against them. Is Ronaldo bad against Brazil? I don't know, he barely played them, only 3 games. Yet this is used to attack Ronaldo.

Yes, Ronaldo would struggle playing in instagramless oblivion Bolivia and would puke because of the lack of oxygen(-ated water for his hair) at the ISS, so would Messi struggle to score in Kazakhstan 2 light-years away from home while fearing the mongol horde next door might come at any moment to loot his tax-evaded hoard.

Props on the solid post! However, while Messi has had good teammates on paper, look at how much of a letdown nearly every teammate has been (outside of Mascherano). Higuain has been a train wreck, Aguero has been up and down with his playing time with the NT, Dybala can't play the same position as Messi, Di Maria was the most dispossessed player of the 2014 world cup (although I liked the tournament he had overall, shame he got injured for the final).

Look at Argentina without Messi, it's an absolutely abysmal record.

 

[Daysleeper]

Let's see Cristiano Ronaldo performed for United, Real, Juve and Portugal
Lionel performed for Barcelona and fails to turn up for Argentina. Not all tournaments were bad, some were decent like the WC 2010 but they have all been enormously underwhelming. Even the biggest Messi fans should be able to acknowledge that imo.
Anyway I think friendly international goals shouldn't count. I see not why they should? But since they do count it's going to be a very prestigious record when Ronaldo eventually breaks Daei's record.

He might have had a slow start to the season but he is still on 17 goals in 20 games for club and country. He should move to the MLS next season so he has got a good chance to break Bican's all time goal scoring record.

messi 2014 was good, you’d be insane to think otherwise. Best player of the tournament you can’t certainly have arguments against that but to say he never shows up for Argentina is bollocks.

how many finals had Ronaldo scores
For Portugal in? Ronaldo’s teammates snow up FAR more than messi’s does

 

[2mufc0]

messi 2014 was good, you’d be insane to think otherwise. Best player of the tournament you can’t certainly have arguments against that but to say he never shows up for Argentina is bollocks.

how many finals had Ronaldo scores
For Portugal in? Ronaldo’s teammates snow up FAR more than messi’s does

Messi didn't deserve that player of the tournament in 2014, he looked ashamed himself when he picked it up.

 

[VBI]

It's not just Ronaldo, every European forward gets to pad their stats at NT level in a way South American forwards generally don't. It's just a fact, every qualifying tournament they get a minimum of 4 games against, comparatively speaking, really poor teams ranked at like 80th and below, every single set of qualifiers. Not to mention friendly selections for various reasons. Your random default forward for one of Conmebol's big three nations will play pretty strong opponents noticably more frequently than UEFA's top teams will due to the way their calenders are laid out.

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi didn't deserve that player of the tournament in 2014, he looked ashamed himself when he picked it up.

He was still one of the best players of the tournament inarguably

 

[SportingCP96]

It's not just Ronaldo, every European forward gets to pad their stats at NT level in a way South American forwards generally don't. It's just a fact, every qualifying tournament they get a minimum of 4 games against, comparatively speaking, really poor teams ranked at like 80th and below, every single set of qualifiers. Not to mention friendly selections for various reasons. Your random default forward for one of Conmebol's big three nations will play pretty strong opponents noticably more frequently than UEFA's top teams will due to the way their calenders are laid out.

The same way half of Messi goals for his country is against friendlies against hati, Hong Kong etc. So why even attempt to downplay over 100 goals for your country when the closest person To Ronaldo to do it for Portugal was Pauleta with 47.

 

[SportingCP96]

Every player in Europe plays against the small teams, so Ronaldo isn't gifted in that regard.
Also Ronaldo has been playing most of his career in Portugal with companions such as Postiga, Hugo Almeida, etc. He would die for half Higuain.

I think Messi and Ronaldo records are both amazing, but for the sake of showing how the "Ronaldo only has it because he plays monthly against the Vatican" let's see Messi:

**************

69 goals in 91 games, it's great and he doesn't play against Sealand like Ronaldo, so let's see:

Ronaldo has no goals vs Brazil, how pathetic, in a grand total of 3 games (2 friendlies and 1 competitive).
5 goals vs Brazil
Wow 5 goals in 11 games (6 friendlies, 2 in Copa America, 3 in WC qualifying) the many WC qualifiers and the yearly Copa Amerricas over the years? No, all goals are from the friendlies. Weird.

Ronaldo has 3 goals in 2 games vs Switzerland, one a WC qualifier that qualified Portugal for WC and the other was the Nations League semifinal.
3 goals vs Switzerland
A good european team and Messi has the same amount of goals! Oh, was a friendly

Ronaldo has 3 goals in 5 games (3 competitive and 2 friendlies)
2 goals vs Spain
Nice... ah scored in 2 of the 3 friendlies, never played competitive vs Spain

Ronaldo has 1 goal in a friendly vs Croatia, played 3 times (2 friendlies and 1 in Euro)
2 vs Croatia!
2 friendlies and 1 WC game, maybe he... no he scored in the 2 friendlies

Ronaldo never scored vs France! He had 4 games: 2 friendlies, 1 WC semi-final and 1 Euro final where he barely played as he left injured. Sad performances vs a team Portugal didn't beat for 40 years until 2016!
1 goal vs France
Messi did it! 1 Friendly and 1 WC game, maybe he did score in the... nope, he scored in the friendly again. Hmm.

Ronaldo never scored against Germany, the loser! All competitive games, 2 in WC and 2 in Euro.
1 goal vs Germany
Lionel did it again. Messi had 4 games, 2 friendlies and 2 WC games, this time maybe? No, he scored in one of the friendlies. But

Ronaldo has 2 friendlies against Argentina, scored 1 goal.
1 goal vs Portugal
Messi also played those 2 friendlies and also got 1 goal. But Ronaldo was lucky have been partnered with a 31 year old Danny and Hugo Almeida while Messi had to bear up with Lavezzi and that fraud Higuain so it's not fair.

Ronaldo didn't score in 2 friendly games vs Italy, a team Portugal generally does well if you exclude those 30 years Portugal was unable to beat it and all the other remaining ones except the last because God Èder too
Messi didn't too because he never played Italy otherwise it would have been in a competitive game of course.


So in total Messi has 33 goals in 46 friendlies. So 48% of Messi's goals come from friendlies. And Ronaldo in friendlies has 17 goals in 47 games (17% of total). Messi the friendly GOAT.


But look Messi is very good vs a good team such as Uruguay!
4 goals nice! All goals in WC qualifiying! He only needed 8 games vs Uruguay for that. And none in Copa America.
3 goals vs Chile! In 9 games. All goals in WC qualifying, maybe one in the last 10 Copa editions in the last 5 years would have been handy.
3 goals vs Colombia! In 9 games. All goals in WC qualifying.

Who the hell does he score against in Copa America then. Let's see:

1 goal vs Peru
1 goal vs Mexico
2 goals vs Paraguay
3 goals vs Panama
1 goal vs Venezuela
1 goal vs United States

Erm... ok let's see the WC goals

1 goal vs Serbia-Montenegro
1 goal vs Bosnia-Herzegovina
1 goal vs Iran
3 goals vs Nigeria


But but let's see the fraud Ronaldo

Euro final stage goals:

1 goal vs Greece
3 goals vs Netherlands
2 goals vs Czech Republic
2 goals vs Hungary
1 goal vs Wales

Netherlands, Panama, it's the same, it's all about canals.

WC goals:

1 goal vs Iran
1 goal vs North Korea
1 goal vs Ghana
3 goals vs Spain
1 goal vs Morocco

No knockout stage goals ha! Oh wait Messi too. 3 goals in 2 games vs Nigeria is better than 3 goals in 1 game vs Spain that Portugal didn't even win that game so it's a draw.



Messi the clear OG. While Ronaldo has it easy to be honoured to play Andorras in the qualifying forcefully as Portugal isn't unable to break them without him Messi has to lead Argentina to glory in tough friendlies vs Haiti and Hong Kong.
Did I mention yet that Ronaldo was being fed on a plate by world class idols such as Postiga, Hugo Almeida and geriatric Liedson while Messi had to babysit rocks with eyes such as Milito, Tévez, Aguero, Higuain and other log-footed minerals that had the biggest achievement in their carreers when Messi honours them by calling them to the Argentina national team.


*************

This post is supposed to be sarcastic and only half serious.
Messi's record in the national team is fantastic. I don't want to play it down at all.

So is Ronaldo's while always being out down because he happens to play against some teams many people laugh at, like Luxembourg (he scored today vs them), a team that drew vs France in Paris last year before France went on to be WC.
Messi has more goals vs top teams than Ronaldo but if you look well all (!) of them were friendlies and Ronaldo played less games and/or more competitive games vs them than Messi.
Look at Brazil. Messi played them 5 times in competitive games, never scored and had 1 draw and 4 defeats. Ronaldo had only 1 competitive game, a WC game that was a draw.
In the other 2 friendlies Ronaldo had he didn't score too and 1 was a victory and another a defeat. Messi had 6 friendlies, 4 victories and 2 defeats. In those 6 friendlies, he scored in 3 of them (with an hattrick once).
Is Messi good vs Brazil? Yes he is, even if he didn't score in 8 of the 11 games he had against them. Is Ronaldo bad against Brazil? I don't know, he barely played them, only 3 games. Yet this is used to attack Ronaldo.

Yes, Ronaldo would struggle playing in instagramless oblivion Bolivia and would puke because of the lack of oxygen(-ated water for his hair) at the ISS, so would Messi struggle to score in Kazakhstan 2 light-years away from home while fearing the mongol horde next door might come at any moment to loot his tax-evaded hoard.

What a fantastic post must of took a while to get all that info! Either way MURDER with words right there if I have ever seen it.

It is just disgusting how anything Ronaldo does is downplayed all the time. Would be fair to say he is the most underrated GOAT category player ever.

I respect Messi a lot and think he is one of the GOAT players but for all his talent he just lacks that "thing" or that mentality like Ronaldo does have. Also I cant ignore the fact that while still being great he just is not the same player he is for Barca compared to when he plays for Argentina, as well that I will always wonder how he would fair in a different team in a different league with different philosophies. I have no doubt he would still be WC but would he dominate a league like Ronaldo has done.

Portugal, United , Madrid, Juve(still early but 30 goals in his first season was a good start) he has showed up and shown out everywhere he has been and IF he is too win a CL in Juve then he literally has won a CL for 3 different clubs in 3 different leagues along with an unprecedented trophy for Portugal which is our first and only. I just don't see how anyone can argue that.

 

[SportingCP96]

I really agree with this and I think they would play out of their mind together. At any point in their careers. But even now, I just think they'd wreck teams offensively. Ronaldo's simple one touch passes and one-twos would work wonders for Messi's runs between lines, and he would just deliver all kinds of incredible balls for Ronaldo which would just then finish them up as he always has.

Man... This would be like a dream come true to me, just one season... In a big club without an European trophy.

Or even in the MLS.

Wish it'd happen...

This would be the best show on earth. I would camp out for tickets to see them play together for a full season.

 

[Daysleeper]

The same way half of Messi goals for his country is against friendlies against hati, Hong Kong etc. So why even attempt to downplay over 100 goals for your country when the closest person To Ronaldo to do it for Portugal was Pauleta with 47.

Except haiti and hong kong only lead to 5 goals combined


way more minnows in euro qualifiers than south american, not even close

 

[SportingCP96]

Except haiti and hong kong only lead to 5 goals combined


way more minnows in euro qualifiers than south american, not even close

I would just resort to @Camara post above for a more detailed overview. Also thats why I said etc. I did not mean just Haiti and Hong Kong.

Nonetheless downplaying what will end up being 120+ goals for your national team is just silly and is almost troll level. No European EVER has hit 100 goals for their country (or South American) and Ronaldo will end up with well over 100.

 

[trims]

Messi didn't deserve that player of the tournament in 2014, he looked ashamed himself when he picked it up.

If Messi was the best player of the tournament in 2014 then so was I.

Ronaldo was easily better in 2012 and if we win the penalties instead of Spain then he wins player of the tournament instead of Iniesta. We would have beaten that italian team in the final

Didn’t Messi win most Man of the match awards in that World Cup? Vehemently denying that Messi deserved it and then trying to argue that Ronaldo deserved the 2012 award just makes you seem biased.

 

[VBI]

I don't think his post was detailed as it was slightly misleading. It's the other way around as being presented here, on twitter particularly it was Ronaldo fans making a huge deal about his hat-trick and his overall NT goal record compared to Messi, like "haha he's scored so many more than Messi" but when you look at the opponents Messi has generally scored more against better teams so it balances out.

I wasn't personally downplaying Ronaldo's NT record, I think it's astonishingly good. The fact is that he will 99% likely be the world record holder for NT goals when he retires which is a colossal achievement for which he will rightly receive a ton of plaudits. Not everything has to be directly compared between the two, even in this clownshoe of a thread.

 

[Camara]

I don't think his post was detailed as it was slightly misleading. It's the other way around as being presented here, on twitter particularly it was Ronaldo fans making a huge deal about his hat-trick and his overall NT goal record compared to Messi, like "haha he's scored so many more than Messi" but when you look at the opponents Messi has generally scored more against better teams so it balances out.

I wasn't personally downplaying Ronaldo's NT record, I think it's astonishingly good. The fact is that he will 99% likely be the world record holder for NT goals when he retires which is a colossal achievement for which he will rightly receive a ton of plaudits. Not everything has to be directly compared between the two, even in this clownshoe of a thread.

Ok let's do a detailed exercise with who they scored against.
These tiers are my own view so feel free to comment on them.

Historical Giants
Brazil
Uruguay
Spain
France
Germany
Portugal (let's pretend plz)
Netherlands
Argentina

In this tier, Messi scored 14 goals in 32 games while Ronaldo scored 8 goals in 25 games.
In friendlies Messi scored 10 goals in 14 games while Ronaldo scored 1 goal in 10 games.
In competitive games Messi scored 4 goals in 18 games while Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 15 games.
All the competitive goals Messi scored were against Uruguay in WC qualifiers. No goals in final stages of the tournaments.


Strong teams
Paraguay
Colombia
Chile
Switzerland
Mexico
Croatia
Serbia-Montenegro / Serbia
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Russia
Greece
Poland
Czech Republic

In this tier Messi scored 20 goals, 13 in competitive and 7 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 23 goals, 20 in competitive and 3 in friendlies.


Medium teams
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Nigeria
Algeria
Peru
Iran
United States
Slovenia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Hungary
Northern Ireland
Cameroon
Egypt
Finland
Ghana
Iceland
Morocco
Slovakia
Ukraine
Wales

In this tier Messi scored 21 goals, 16 in competitive and 5 in friendlies
Ronaldo scored 22 goals, 16 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.


Weak teams
Panama
Haiti
Guatemala
Hong Kong
Nicaragua
Albania
Lithuania
Andorra
Armenia
Latvia
Luxembourg
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
Kazakhstan
Saudi Arabia
New Zealand
North Korea

In this tier Messi scored 14 goals, 3 in competitive and 11 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 46 goals, 40 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.




So, if you ignore the badmouthed weak team tiers this is their numbers:

Messi: 55 goals, 33 in competitive and 22 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 53 goals, 43 in competitive and 10 in friendlies



Now let's also remove the medium tier to have only giants and strong teams

Messi: 34 goals, 17 in competitive and 17 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 31 goals, 27 in competitive and 4 in friendlies


What, shocking! Ronaldo scores basically the same as Messi vs strong teams, but he actually does it in competitive games!


But Messi has 14 goals against the giant tier while Ronaldo has only 8 goals. Messi needed 32 games for that (0.4375 goals per game) while Ronaldo needed 25 (0.32 gpg).
But if we go competitive the tables turn dramatically! Messi has 4 goals in 18 games (0.22 gpg, and no goal in final stages of competitions) while Ronaldo has 7 goals in 15 games (0.466 gpg, all in final stages).
So another shocking horror: in competitive games vs the giants Ronaldo has more than twice the goal ratio of Messi!
Those friendlies, gotta catch 'em all!

 

[Bebestation]

Ok let's do a detailed exercise with who they scored against.
These tiers are my own view so feel free to comment on them.

Historical Giants
Brazil
Uruguay
Spain
France
Germany
Portugal (let's pretend plz)
Netherlands
Argentina

In this tier, Messi scored 14 goals in 32 games while Ronaldo scored 8 goals in 25 games.
In friendlies Messi scored 10 goals in 14 games while Ronaldo scored 1 goal in 10 games.
In competitive games Messi scored 4 goals in 18 games while Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 15 games.
All the competitive goals Messi scored were against Uruguay in WC qualifiers. No goals in final stages of the tournaments.


Strong teams
Paraguay
Colombia
Chile
Switzerland
Mexico
Croatia
Serbia-Montenegro / Serbia
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Russia
Greece
Poland
Czech Republic

In this tier Messi scored 20 goals, 13 in competitive and 7 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 23 goals, 20 in competitive and 3 in friendlies.


Medium teams
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Nigeria
Algeria
Peru
Iran
United States
Slovenia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Hungary
Northern Ireland
Cameroon
Egypt
Finland
Ghana
Iceland
Morocco
Slovakia
Ukraine
Wales

In this tier Messi scored 21 goals, 16 in competitive and 5 in friendlies
Ronaldo scored 22 goals, 16 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.


Weak teams
Panama
Haiti
Guatemala
Hong Kong
Nicaragua
Albania
Lithuania
Andorra
Armenia
Latvia
Luxembourg
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
Kazakhstan
Saudi Arabia
New Zealand
North Korea

In this tier Messi scored 14 goals, 3 in competitive and 11 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 46 goals, 40 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.




So, if you ignore the badmouthed weak team tiers this is their numbers:

Messi: 55 goals, 33 in competitive and 22 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 53 goals, 43 in competitive and 10 in friendlies



Now let's also remove the medium tier to have only giants and strong teams

Messi: 34 goals, 17 in competitive and 17 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 31 goals, 27 in competitive and 4 in friendlies


What, shocking! Ronaldo scores basically the same as Messi vs strong teams, but he actually does it in competitive games!


But Messi has 14 goals against the giant tier while Ronaldo has only 8 goals. Messi needed 32 games for that (0.4375 goals per game) while Ronaldo needed 25 (0.32 gpg).
But if we go competitive the tables turn dramatically! Messi has 4 goals in 18 games (0.22 gpg, and no goal in final stages of competitions) while Ronaldo has 7 goals in 15 games (0.466 gpg, all in final stages).
So another shocking horror: in competitive games vs the giants Ronaldo has more than twice the goal ratio of Messi!
Those friendlies, gotta catch 'em all!

You are amazing

 

[SportingCP96]

Ok let's do a detailed exercise with who they scored against.
These tiers are my own view so feel free to comment on them.

Historical Giants
Brazil
Uruguay
Spain
France
Germany
Portugal (let's pretend plz)
Netherlands
Argentina

In this tier, Messi scored 14 goals in 32 games while Ronaldo scored 8 goals in 25 games.
In friendlies Messi scored 10 goals in 14 games while Ronaldo scored 1 goal in 10 games.
In competitive games Messi scored 4 goals in 18 games while Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 15 games.
All the competitive goals Messi scored were against Uruguay in WC qualifiers. No goals in final stages of the tournaments.


Strong teams
Paraguay
Colombia
Chile
Switzerland
Mexico
Croatia
Serbia-Montenegro / Serbia
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Russia
Greece
Poland
Czech Republic

In this tier Messi scored 20 goals, 13 in competitive and 7 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 23 goals, 20 in competitive and 3 in friendlies.


Medium teams
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Nigeria
Algeria
Peru
Iran
United States
Slovenia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Hungary
Northern Ireland
Cameroon
Egypt
Finland
Ghana
Iceland
Morocco
Slovakia
Ukraine
Wales

In this tier Messi scored 21 goals, 16 in competitive and 5 in friendlies
Ronaldo scored 22 goals, 16 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.


Weak teams
Panama
Haiti
Guatemala
Hong Kong
Nicaragua
Albania
Lithuania
Andorra
Armenia
Latvia
Luxembourg
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
Kazakhstan
Saudi Arabia
New Zealand
North Korea

In this tier Messi scored 14 goals, 3 in competitive and 11 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 46 goals, 40 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.




So, if you ignore the badmouthed weak team tiers this is their numbers:

Messi: 55 goals, 33 in competitive and 22 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 53 goals, 43 in competitive and 10 in friendlies



Now let's also remove the medium tier to have only giants and strong teams

Messi: 34 goals, 17 in competitive and 17 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 31 goals, 27 in competitive and 4 in friendlies


What, shocking! Ronaldo scores basically the same as Messi vs strong teams, but he actually does it in competitive games!


But Messi has 14 goals against the giant tier while Ronaldo has only 8 goals. Messi needed 32 games for that (0.4375 goals per game) while Ronaldo needed 25 (0.32 gpg).
But if we go competitive the tables turn dramatically! Messi has 4 goals in 18 games (0.22 gpg, and no goal in final stages of competitions) while Ronaldo has 7 goals in 15 games (0.466 gpg, all in final stages).
So another shocking horror: in competitive games vs the giants Ronaldo has more than twice the goal ratio of Messi!
Those friendlies, gotta catch 'em all!

OH MY GOD!!

You literally have just ended this debate (National team wise).

Back to back brilliant posts.

Ok so I don't know if you should be banned for hurting so many people at once or if you deserve post of the year award but something has to be done

OFFICIALLY my favorite Porto fan btw

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Ok let's do a detailed exercise with who they scored against.
These tiers are my own view so feel free to comment on them.

Historical Giants
Brazil
Uruguay
Spain
France
Germany
Portugal (let's pretend plz)
Netherlands
Argentina

In this tier, Messi scored 14 goals in 32 games while Ronaldo scored 8 goals in 25 games.
In friendlies Messi scored 10 goals in 14 games while Ronaldo scored 1 goal in 10 games.
In competitive games Messi scored 4 goals in 18 games while Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 15 games.
All the competitive goals Messi scored were against Uruguay in WC qualifiers. No goals in final stages of the tournaments.


Strong teams
Paraguay
Colombia
Chile
Switzerland
Mexico
Croatia
Serbia-Montenegro / Serbia
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Russia
Greece
Poland
Czech Republic

In this tier Messi scored 20 goals, 13 in competitive and 7 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 23 goals, 20 in competitive and 3 in friendlies.


Medium teams
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Nigeria
Algeria
Peru
Iran
United States
Slovenia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Hungary
Northern Ireland
Cameroon
Egypt
Finland
Ghana
Iceland
Morocco
Slovakia
Ukraine
Wales

In this tier Messi scored 21 goals, 16 in competitive and 5 in friendlies
Ronaldo scored 22 goals, 16 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.


Weak teams
Panama
Haiti
Guatemala
Hong Kong
Nicaragua
Albania
Lithuania
Andorra
Armenia
Latvia
Luxembourg
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
Kazakhstan
Saudi Arabia
New Zealand
North Korea

In this tier Messi scored 14 goals, 3 in competitive and 11 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 46 goals, 40 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.




So, if you ignore the badmouthed weak team tiers this is their numbers:

Messi: 55 goals, 33 in competitive and 22 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 53 goals, 43 in competitive and 10 in friendlies



Now let's also remove the medium tier to have only giants and strong teams

Messi: 34 goals, 17 in competitive and 17 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 31 goals, 27 in competitive and 4 in friendlies


What, shocking! Ronaldo scores basically the same as Messi vs strong teams, but he actually does it in competitive games!


But Messi has 14 goals against the giant tier while Ronaldo has only 8 goals. Messi needed 32 games for that (0.4375 goals per game) while Ronaldo needed 25 (0.32 gpg).
But if we go competitive the tables turn dramatically! Messi has 4 goals in 18 games (0.22 gpg, and no goal in final stages of competitions) while Ronaldo has 7 goals in 15 games (0.466 gpg, all in final stages).
So another shocking horror: in competitive games vs the giants Ronaldo has more than twice the goal ratio of Messi!
Those friendlies, gotta catch 'em all!

But but where are the assists and pre-assist stats? What about better team index(mind you just like how football started in 2009, Portugal is a better team since sliced bread)

 

[VJ1762]

Ok let's do a detailed exercise with who they scored against.
These tiers are my own view so feel free to comment on them.

Historical Giants
Brazil
Uruguay
Spain
France
Germany
Portugal (let's pretend plz)
Netherlands
Argentina

In this tier, Messi scored 14 goals in 32 games while Ronaldo scored 8 goals in 25 games.
In friendlies Messi scored 10 goals in 14 games while Ronaldo scored 1 goal in 10 games.
In competitive games Messi scored 4 goals in 18 games while Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 15 games.
All the competitive goals Messi scored were against Uruguay in WC qualifiers. No goals in final stages of the tournaments.


Strong teams
Paraguay
Colombia
Chile
Switzerland
Mexico
Croatia
Serbia-Montenegro / Serbia
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Russia
Greece
Poland
Czech Republic

In this tier Messi scored 20 goals, 13 in competitive and 7 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 23 goals, 20 in competitive and 3 in friendlies.


Medium teams
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Nigeria
Algeria
Peru
Iran
United States
Slovenia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Hungary
Northern Ireland
Cameroon
Egypt
Finland
Ghana
Iceland
Morocco
Slovakia
Ukraine
Wales

In this tier Messi scored 21 goals, 16 in competitive and 5 in friendlies
Ronaldo scored 22 goals, 16 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.


Weak teams
Panama
Haiti
Guatemala
Hong Kong
Nicaragua
Albania
Lithuania
Andorra
Armenia
Latvia
Luxembourg
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
Kazakhstan
Saudi Arabia
New Zealand
North Korea

In this tier Messi scored 14 goals, 3 in competitive and 11 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 46 goals, 40 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.




So, if you ignore the badmouthed weak team tiers this is their numbers:

Messi: 55 goals, 33 in competitive and 22 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 53 goals, 43 in competitive and 10 in friendlies



Now let's also remove the medium tier to have only giants and strong teams

Messi: 34 goals, 17 in competitive and 17 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 31 goals, 27 in competitive and 4 in friendlies


What, shocking! Ronaldo scores basically the same as Messi vs strong teams, but he actually does it in competitive games!


But Messi has 14 goals against the giant tier while Ronaldo has only 8 goals. Messi needed 32 games for that (0.4375 goals per game) while Ronaldo needed 25 (0.32 gpg).
But if we go competitive the tables turn dramatically! Messi has 4 goals in 18 games (0.22 gpg, and no goal in final stages of competitions) while Ronaldo has 7 goals in 15 games (0.466 gpg, all in final stages).
So another shocking horror: in competitive games vs the giants Ronaldo has more than twice the goal ratio of Messi!
Those friendlies, gotta catch 'em all!

England is not even in this list, the shade .

Big props for the post. For how long have you been sitting on this content?

 

[Kappa123]

Ronaldo is easily better when it comes to national team, it's not really close. Messi has been brilliant as well though, it has to be said. He's even carried Argentina through some tournaments just as Ronaldo has, although his performances have often been overshadowed by his teammates' unfortunate capitulations - Higuain, etc.

Overall, though, it's also not even close. Messi is so much better it's unreal.

 

[skeelz]

Ok let's do a detailed exercise with who they scored against.
These tiers are my own view so feel free to comment on them.

Historical Giants
Brazil
Uruguay
Spain
France
Germany
Portugal (let's pretend plz)
Netherlands
Argentina

In this tier, Messi scored 14 goals in 32 games while Ronaldo scored 8 goals in 25 games.
In friendlies Messi scored 10 goals in 14 games while Ronaldo scored 1 goal in 10 games.
In competitive games Messi scored 4 goals in 18 games while Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 15 games.
All the competitive goals Messi scored were against Uruguay in WC qualifiers. No goals in final stages of the tournaments.


Strong teams
Paraguay
Colombia
Chile
Switzerland
Mexico
Croatia
Serbia-Montenegro / Serbia
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Russia
Greece
Poland
Czech Republic

In this tier Messi scored 20 goals, 13 in competitive and 7 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 23 goals, 20 in competitive and 3 in friendlies.


Medium teams
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Nigeria
Algeria
Peru
Iran
United States
Slovenia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Hungary
Northern Ireland
Cameroon
Egypt
Finland
Ghana
Iceland
Morocco
Slovakia
Ukraine
Wales

In this tier Messi scored 21 goals, 16 in competitive and 5 in friendlies
Ronaldo scored 22 goals, 16 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.


Weak teams
Panama
Haiti
Guatemala
Hong Kong
Nicaragua
Albania
Lithuania
Andorra
Armenia
Latvia
Luxembourg
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
Kazakhstan
Saudi Arabia
New Zealand
North Korea

In this tier Messi scored 14 goals, 3 in competitive and 11 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 46 goals, 40 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.




So, if you ignore the badmouthed weak team tiers this is their numbers:

Messi: 55 goals, 33 in competitive and 22 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 53 goals, 43 in competitive and 10 in friendlies



Now let's also remove the medium tier to have only giants and strong teams

Messi: 34 goals, 17 in competitive and 17 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 31 goals, 27 in competitive and 4 in friendlies


What, shocking! Ronaldo scores basically the same as Messi vs strong teams, but he actually does it in competitive games!


But Messi has 14 goals against the giant tier while Ronaldo has only 8 goals. Messi needed 32 games for that (0.4375 goals per game) while Ronaldo needed 25 (0.32 gpg).
But if we go competitive the tables turn dramatically! Messi has 4 goals in 18 games (0.22 gpg, and no goal in final stages of competitions) while Ronaldo has 7 goals in 15 games (0.466 gpg, all in final stages).
So another shocking horror: in competitive games vs the giants Ronaldo has more than twice the goal ratio of Messi!
Those friendlies, gotta catch 'em all!

Please permit me to share this post on another forum in my country I belong to and give due credit. The debate about these two players is almost as hot as this place.

 

[Mcking]

Ok let's do a detailed exercise with who they scored against.
These tiers are my own view so feel free to comment on them.

Historical Giants
Brazil
Uruguay
Spain
France
Germany
Portugal (let's pretend plz)
Netherlands
Argentina

In this tier, Messi scored 14 goals in 32 games while Ronaldo scored 8 goals in 25 games.
In friendlies Messi scored 10 goals in 14 games while Ronaldo scored 1 goal in 10 games.
In competitive games Messi scored 4 goals in 18 games while Ronaldo scored 7 goals in 15 games.
All the competitive goals Messi scored were against Uruguay in WC qualifiers. No goals in final stages of the tournaments.


Strong teams
Paraguay
Colombia
Chile
Switzerland
Mexico
Croatia
Serbia-Montenegro / Serbia
Sweden
Belgium
Denmark
Russia
Greece
Poland
Czech Republic

In this tier Messi scored 20 goals, 13 in competitive and 7 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 23 goals, 20 in competitive and 3 in friendlies.


Medium teams
Venezuela
Ecuador
Bolivia
Nigeria
Algeria
Peru
Iran
United States
Slovenia
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Hungary
Northern Ireland
Cameroon
Egypt
Finland
Ghana
Iceland
Morocco
Slovakia
Ukraine
Wales

In this tier Messi scored 21 goals, 16 in competitive and 5 in friendlies
Ronaldo scored 22 goals, 16 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.


Weak teams
Panama
Haiti
Guatemala
Hong Kong
Nicaragua
Albania
Lithuania
Andorra
Armenia
Latvia
Luxembourg
Estonia
Faroe Islands
Azerbaijan
Cyprus
Kazakhstan
Saudi Arabia
New Zealand
North Korea

In this tier Messi scored 14 goals, 3 in competitive and 11 in friendlies.
Ronaldo scored 46 goals, 40 in competitive and 6 in friendlies.




So, if you ignore the badmouthed weak team tiers this is their numbers:

Messi: 55 goals, 33 in competitive and 22 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 53 goals, 43 in competitive and 10 in friendlies



Now let's also remove the medium tier to have only giants and strong teams

Messi: 34 goals, 17 in competitive and 17 in friendlies
Ronaldo: 31 goals, 27 in competitive and 4 in friendlies


What, shocking! Ronaldo scores basically the same as Messi vs strong teams, but he actually does it in competitive games!


But Messi has 14 goals against the giant tier while Ronaldo has only 8 goals. Messi needed 32 games for that (0.4375 goals per game) while Ronaldo needed 25 (0.32 gpg).
But if we go competitive the tables turn dramatically! Messi has 4 goals in 18 games (0.22 gpg, and no goal in final stages of competitions) while Ronaldo has 7 goals in 15 games (0.466 gpg, all in final stages).
So another shocking horror: in competitive games vs the giants Ronaldo has more than twice the goal ratio of Messi!
Those friendlies, gotta catch 'em all!

Did you count qualifying games as competitive?

 

[Renegade]

Can someone make an argument for Lukaku being better than Aguero?

saying that congratulations to Ronaldo huge achievement and one of the greatest goalscorers of all time.

 

[Steve Bruce]

OH MY GOD!!

You literally have just ended this debate (National team wise).

Back to back brilliant posts.

Ok so I don't know if you should be banned for hurting so many people at once or if you deserve post of the year award but something has to be done

OFFICIALLY my favorite Porto fan btw

That's the international argument and champions league put to bed.

Messi is the king of la liga though.

 

[Gehrman]

People also have to consider that Messi plays more as a nr 10 these days while Ronaldo is more of a striker. They play different roles in their team.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Ronaldo will end up the leading goalscorer in CL history, the leading international goalscorer in history and Real Madrid's leading goalscorer of all time at a ratio of more then one goal per game.

It's going to be hard debating against that.

 

[SportingCP96]

That's the international argument and champions league put to bed.

Messi is the king of la liga though.

Well ya he has been there since he was practically a fetus but in terms of since 2009-10 there individual numbers are practically the same though Messi has won more titles. At the same time Messi has had the better team for a majority of their times at Barca. He had the greatest club team of all time from 08-09 until 12-13 and then right as the midfield was starting to decline they added Neymar and a prime Suarez to a prime Messi.

When we talk about domestic leagues though it is also worth pointing out Ronaldo has played in 3 leagues (not counting Portugal) and has performed in 3.

As you said though in terms of CL and international football there is Zero debate as their is only one winner.

 

[SportingCP96]

Ronaldo will end up the leading goalscorer in CL history, the leading international goalscorer in history and Real Madrid's leading goalscorer of all time at a ratio of more then one goal per game.

It's going to be hard debating against that.

IF he ends as the all time CL goalscorer, (Messi can still catch him if Ronaldo stops scoring ) the all time International team scorer, the all time scorer in general in terms of any footballer to ever play the game added with his all time scoring accolade for Madrid we are talking about record that may never be broken or at the minimum will be a loonnnnnggg time until they are beaten.

 

[Mogget]

Ronaldo will end up the leading goalscorer in CL history, the leading international goalscorer in history and Real Madrid's leading goalscorer of all time at a ratio of more then one goal per game.

It's going to be hard debating against that.

Not if you actually watch them play

 

[Kappa123]

Honest question: If Ronaldo is actually so great then how come it's only Messi who gets compared with Pele, Maradona, R9, etc? It sounds absurd to compare CR7 with those, and I realised that's because nobody ever does it. Because it just sounds wrong, doesn't it. He's clearly not that level of footballer and never has been.

Whereas Messi fits right in with that company it has to be said. Sometimes it really is just that simple.

 

[VanGaalEra]

Not if you actually watch them play

I watch them play and say Ronaldo is the GOAT.

So there goes your post.

 

[SportingCP96]

Honest question: If Ronaldo is actually so great then how come it's only Messi who gets compared with Pele, Maradona, R9, etc? It sounds absurd to compare CR7 with those, and I realised that's because nobody ever does it. Because it just sounds wrong, doesn't it. He's clearly not that level of footballer and never has been.

Whereas Messi fits right in with that company it has to be said. Sometimes it really is just that simple.

Ronaldo and Messi have been compared head to head there whole career. Both are by far the best of their generation and for years Ronaldo was better than Messi and vise vera so it is IMPOSSIBLE that one is compared to the others and the other is not when Messi has been compared to Ronaldo his whole career and vise versa. Messi is on the Mount Rushmore because of his brilliant talent, Ronaldo is there for both his talent and his unbelievable Mentality, that Brady and MJ mentality. Both are great and Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, and Messi are the 4 greatest of all time. The order is based on personal opinion.

IMO Ronaldo and Messi complete the Mount Rushmore with Pele and Maradona all for different reasons. In general though no one will ever do and break the records like Ronaldo and Messi have done year in year out. They changed football and made scoring 50 goals a season the norm. If they score 30 goals in a season many would consider that a "bad" season. That is how high both of there standards are and is something many won't grasp until they are out the game for good.

 

[Mogget]

I watch them play and say Ronaldo is the GOAT.

So there goes your post.

Damn, you got me there.

 

[Daysleeper]

Ronaldo will end up the leading goalscorer in CL history, the leading international goalscorer in history and Real Madrid's leading goalscorer of all time at a ratio of more then one goal per game.

It's going to be hard debating against that.

His CL record could be broken by Messi and Messi is also on pace to overtake his total goals scored record.

Ronaldo is declining a bit so far while Messi is still in excellent form. Messi is the GOAT.

 

[RedRonaldo]

His CL record could be broken by Messi and Messi is also on pace to overtake his total goals scored record.

Ronaldo is declining a bit so far while Messi is still in excellent form. Messi is the GOAT.

Its possible, Messi is only 14 goals behind in CL, and 24 goals behind in total goals scored, and he is 2 years younger too, so its more the case of who will retire first and who will outlast longer.

But regarding total goals scored record, Messi in excellent form is currently on 10 goals this season so far, Ronaldo in decline is on 17 goals. Still abit of catching up to do.

 

[GifLord]

Its possible, Messi is only 14 goals behind in CL, and 24 goals behind in total goals scored, and he is 2 years younger too, so its more the case of who will retire first and who will outlast longer.

But regarding total goals scored record, Messi in excellent form is currently on 10 goals this season so far, Ronaldo in decline is on 17 goals. Still abit of catching up to do.

Messi was injured for over a month at the start of the season

Adductor problems Sep 25, 2019 Oct 1, 2019 6 days
Foot Injury Aug 5, 2019 Sep 16, 2019 42 days

 

[Righteous Steps]

Ronaldo will end up the leading goalscorer in CL history, the leading international goalscorer in history and Real Madrid's leading goalscorer of all time at a ratio of more then one goal per game.

It's going to be hard debating against that.

It's not hard at all, considering Messi is the greatest advanced playmaker and arguably greatest goalcorer of all times. Even if he doesn't match that then so what, the fact he comes close is even a testament to his alien ability, as in terms of playmaking Ronaldo doesn't come anywhere close to Messi.

 

[Daysleeper]

Its possible, Messi is only 14 goals behind in CL, and 24 goals behind in total goals scored, and he is 2 years younger too, so its more the case of who will retire first and who will outlast longer.

But regarding total goals scored record, Messi in excellent form is currently on 10 goals this season so far, Ronaldo in decline is on 17 goals. Still abit of catching up to do.

messi missed nearly two months though

but even with a bit of a decline you can never count Ronaldo out

 

[Gehrman]

Lukkaku will probably retire with more goals than Didier Drogba so he is obviously a greater footballer right?

 

[Daysleeper]

Lukkaku will probably retire with more goals than Didier Drogba so he is obviously a greater footballer right?

He did it in multiple leagues too!

 

[Gehrman]

He did it in multiple leagues too!

Did it with mediocre service as well at Everton.

 

[Renegade]

Did it with mediocre service as well at Everton.

that’s the silliness of the general argument between these 2. Can people pull up 5 world class performances from Ronaldo that doesn’t involve him scoring?

Ronaldo is one of the greatest goal scorers of all time no doubting. I have huge respect for his achievements but I can’t ignore what my eyes see regardless of numbers.

Even if Messi had won the 2014 World Cup which was very possible, this argument would still be continuing but under different criteria from Ronaldo fans. Ultimately Messi & Ronaldo fans will
Not be convinced otherwise regardless of what happens and who ever scores more or finishes there career with more.