Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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SportingCP96 said:
Ronaldo has shown no signs of slowing down either and I expect next season him to return to the 40s and more goal tally. In fact Messi won’t have a longer career then Ronaldo I would argue.
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Disagree, Ronaldo's best years are behind him and Juventus will need a massive overhaul in midfield. Ramsey alone won't be enough. And Ronaldo will need to win CL to get another Ballon D'or.

I do think he's had a good season with Juventus this year.
 
Shamana said:
Probably his last chance at winning another CL. Of course if Barca replenish their squad they might be up there soon and again, but Messi is not athletic. He can't go on playing as a forward player, when his stamina is tanked.
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They're getting De Jong and De Ligt this summer. If they can replace Suarez and a better manager they will get there.

But he only has 3-4 years left to win another CL.
 
Shamana said:
Honestly going in with a 3 goal lead mostly because of Messi it should have been settled there than. Massive kudos to Liverpool for doing the incredible, but Barca's defense should not have shipped 4 goals in a game this big. That kind of stuff is beyond Messi's ability.
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Spot on. I do think barca should've scored at least ONE goal, but that backline turning into a playground isn't Messi's fault.
 
Daysleeper said:
Disagree, Ronaldo's best years are behind him and Juventus will need a massive overhaul in midfield. Ramsey alone won't be enough. And Ronaldo will need to win CL to get another Ballon D'or.

I do think he's had a good season with Juventus this year.
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He had 48 goals last season ? And this year he will get to 30 which though is a massive drop is understand because of how bad juve are and there style of play along with it being a new league. I expect him to be back in the 40s next season. He has looked quicker and sharper this season to last and serie A is a more defensive league compared to la liga where teams play very open and don’t focus as much on defense.
 
Shamana said:
I think we can all agree though that CR7 was a superior CL record


I think everyone can agree that CR7 is the best champions league player of all time. Or at least the highest scoring. Messi isn't really all that far behind though.
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Speaking of their goal scoring records in the UCL:

 
Daysleeper said:
He was awful in 2014, 2016, and 2018 Finals
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He wasn't awful... and he was injured in both 2014 and 2016 finals.

Daysleeper said:
What big stage is that? Messi was incredible in CL this year. One game where he was still Barca's best player doesn't change that.

As been said many times before, when Ronaldo doesn't show up his teammates always do, when Messi doesn't show up no one else for him does either.
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Why do you think that happens? Magic? Luck?

I like how Messi is the one that plays with better teammates yet Ronaldo is the one whose teammates constantly bail him out :lol:
 
Peyroteo said:
He wasn't awful... and he was injured in both 2014 and 2016 finals.



Why do you think that happens? Magic? Luck?
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Bad teammates. Everyone was awful

Again even Eders can score in finals when Ronaldo doesn’t play

And yes he was awful in 2014 and 2016 and last year as well in the final. Can’t thjnk of any other star player who has that luxury and still get trophies out of it

Without Messi Barca don’t even have a big advantage going into yesterday
 
Daysleeper said:
Bad teammates. Everyone was awful
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I'm not talking about yesterday. I'm talking about their careers.

You claim Ronaldo can afford to not show up and still go through because his teammates bail him out while Messi's teammates rarely bail him out.

I'll ask again because I really want to know. What is the cause of this mysterious phenomenon? Magic or pure luck?
 
"All of Barcelona's eight shots on goal against Liverpool were either taken by or directly created by Lionel Messi. "

Literally he is doing all the attacking on his own

He was also Barca's highest rated player on whoscored with a 7.2 in the match
 
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Peyroteo said:
I'm not talking about yesterday. I'm talking about their careers.

You claim Ronaldo can afford to not show up and still go through because his teammates bail him out while Messi's teammates rarely bail him out.

I'll ask again because I really want to know. What is the cause of this mysterious phenomenon? Magic or pure luck?
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Maybe Real Madrid had more matchwinners than Barca?
 
Daysleeper said:
He was awful in 2014, 2016, and 2018 Finals

What big stage is that? Messi was incredible in CL this year. One game where he was still Barca's best player doesn't change that.

As been said many times before, when Ronaldo doesn't show up his teammates always do, when Messi doesn't show up no one else for him does either.
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:lol: sure. I am not gonna give a serious response if you think he was awful. You're probably still recovering from the 100th Messi bottle job.
 
Peyroteo said:
I'm not talking about yesterday. I'm talking about their careers.

You claim Ronaldo can afford to not show up and still go through because his teammates bail him out while Messi's teammates rarely bail him out.

I'll ask again because I really want to know. What is the cause of this mysterious phenomenon? Magic or pure luck?
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Poor teammates. Look at Ronaldo with poor teammates, he can't get out of the QF.
 
shamans said:
:lol: sure. I am not gonna give a serious response if you think he was awful. You're probably still recovering from the 100th Messi bottle job.
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In those finals? Of course Ronaldo was awful, Ramos and Bale finished the job
 
Shamana said:
Point being that no 1 player consistently decides the outcome of major games and competitions. It's impossible in a 11 man team game. Maybe Pelé did, but that was before my time. Would you also say that Barcelona won the 09 CL final vs Man Utd because Messi scored and Ronaldo didn't? Or did it have something to do with the whole Barca team performing a level above united and Xavi and Iniesta absolutely dominating our midfield?

But no Ronaldo didn't score so he must have been shit and lacked leadership.
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The point is Messi rarely rescues any game/tie for his team. Ronaldo did it recently against Atletico.

When did Messi last do it?
 
Daysleeper said:
And without Messi they don't even have a 3-0 lead in the first leg.

Ronaldo will be remembered as a good goal scorer, Messi will still be spoke about with a sense of wonder many many years from now.
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If he doesn't win a WC, Copa or at least a CL, he will not.

It'll be more about how he couldn't cut it at the highest level after dominating early on.
 
Peyroteo said:
I'm not talking about yesterday. I'm talking about their careers.

You claim Ronaldo can afford to not show up and still go through because his teammates bail him out while Messi's teammates rarely bail him out.

I'll ask again because I really want to know. What is the cause of this mysterious phenomenon? Magic or pure luck?
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Real Madrid definitely have some sort of charm with the CL. I still don't know how that team managed to win 3 in a row.
 
Daysleeper said:
Poor teammates. Look at Ronaldo with poor teammates, he can't get out of the QF.
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What? But he's undoubtedly had better teammates throughout his career...

You've just said Eder bailed Ronaldo out but Messi's teammates don't bail him out because they're poor? How does that make sense?

Unless you think Suarez and Neymar are worse than Bale and Benzema while Higuain, Aguero and Tevez don't stack up against Postiga, Hugo Almeida and André Silva, how does that make any sense?

Messi is the one who had better teammates, yet he's also the one whose teammates refuse to bail him out. Weird how that works.
 
VP said:
Real Madrid definitely have some sort of charm with the CL. I still don't know how that team managed to win 3 in a row.
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Main reason: they had the GOAT playing for them.
 
Peyroteo said:
What? But he's undoubtedly had better teammates throughout his career...

You've just said Eder bailed Ronaldo out but Messi's teammates don't bail him out because they're poor? How does that make sense?

Unless you think Suarez and Neymar are worse than Bale and Benzema while Higuain, Aguero and Tevez don't stack up against Postiga, Hugo Almeida and André Silva, how does that make any sense?

Messi is the one who had better teammates, yet he's also the one whose teammates refuse to bail him out. Weird how that works.
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He's had better teammates on paper at various times in his career, but Ronaldo had the best midfield in the world. Again, look at Ronaldo with players who put in average performances. Look at Messi when players put in average performances. Literally the only game in recent history I can think of where was Messi was merely "decent" and Barca still got a huge CL win was with Neymar....one time.

Suarez hasn't scored in CL in over a year. Marcelo, Ramos and Benzema are amongst the all time highest scoring CL players at their various positions.
 
VP said:
Real Madrid definitely have some sort of charm with the CL. I still don't know how that team managed to win 3 in a row.
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Them, Liverpool and AC Milan just have something there. It is the culture of those clubs, their fans, history ... whatever you want to call it really. It just gives them a lift no other club has. The likes of us, Barcelona or Juventus need to be top quality to reach finals or win the CL. Usually, the latter teams win it in years where they dominate their domestic league as well. This barely ever applies to the former.
 
Cal? said:
An equalizer in the 1st leg, against the 5th placed English sides is all you can come up with?
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The difference is that Messi puts them in a position where tie doesn't need to be turned around because of he does his job. Ronaldo did it against Atletico that literally just lost 3-0 to Espanyol of all teams.

And Messi in CL this season >>>>>>>>>>> Ronaldo

Not even close.
 
Daysleeper said:
The difference is that Messi puts them in a position where tie doesn't need to be turned around because of he does his job. Ronaldo did it against Atletico that literally just lost 3-0 to Espanyol of all teams.

And Messi in CL this season >>>>>>>>>>> Ronaldo

Not even close.
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Is that what happened in all those QFs in recent years or last night? :lol:

Clearly a dead game in La Liga is the level Atletico should be judged at, makes perfect sense.
 
Cal? said:
Main reason: they had the GOAT playing for them.
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Theonas said:
Them, Liverpool and AC Milan just have something there. It is the culture of those clubs, their fans, history ... whatever you want to call it really. It just gives them a lift no other club has. The likes of us, Barcelona or Juventus need to be top quality to reach finals or win the CL. Usually, the latter teams win it in years where they dominate their domestic league as well. This barely ever applies to the former.
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Exactly, this predates Ronaldo. From the five in a row when no one was around to finishing 5th in 2002 and winning it to the jammy 3 peat. They've lost what 3 of 16 finals? it's absurd especially when you compare to Juve or our record.
 
Daysleeper said:
He's had better teammates on paper at various times in his career, but Ronaldo had the best midfield in the world.
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For two seasons at most. Messi had the best midfield of all time for 4 or 5... :lol:

And he didn't win it 3 times in a row then.

Daysleeper said:
Again, look at Ronaldo with players who put in average performances. Look at Messi when players put in average performances. Literally the only game in recent history I can think of where was Messi was merely "decent" and Barca still got a huge CL win was with Neymar....one time.

Suarez hasn't scored in CL in over a year. Marcelo, Ramos and Benzema are amongst the all time highest scoring CL players at their various positions.
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Those 'average performances' are a whole level apart.. Play offensive football so as to funnel their whole attack through Messi and then act surprised when things go to shit if he isn't having a good day. I mean, what else do you expect?

Would you trade Benzema for Suarez? Marcelo for Dani Alves? Modric for Iniesta? Kroos for Xavi? Bale for Neymar? Isco for Coutinho? Dembele for Asensio? Malcom for Vasquez? Busquets for Alonso or Casemiro? How can you even bring up teammates in this conversation when looking at the teammates they've had at both their clubs and internationally only makes Ronaldo's achievements bigger and Messi's smaller?

300 more million this summer on De Jong, De Ligt and whoever else and if Barca fail to win it all we're guaranteed to still hear about how Barcelona is just a shit one man team.
 
VP said:
Exactly, this predates Ronaldo. From the five in a row when no one was around to finishing 5th in 2002 and winning it to the jammy 3 peat. They've lost what 3 of 16 finals? it's absurd especially when you compare to Juve or our record.
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Err... we've only ever lost 2 finals. :confused:
 
Cal? said:
Err... we've only ever lost 2 finals. :confused:
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I mean we've generally been unlucky in Europe. Leverkusen, Dortmund, Porto, Bayern so many instances where we could've gone through
 
VP said:
I mean we've generally been unlucky in Europe. Leverkusen, Dortmund, Porto, Bayern so many instances where we could've gone through
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We've only ever won it when we're a great side. :(
 
Theonas said:
Them, Liverpool and AC Milan just have something there. It is the culture of those clubs, their fans, history ... whatever you want to call it really. It just gives them a lift no other club has. The likes of us, Barcelona or Juventus need to be top quality to reach finals or win the CL. Usually, the latter teams win it in years where they dominate their domestic league as well. This barely ever applies to the former.
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This.

It's so annoying too.

We just don't have that lift in the CL that Liverpool seemingly do.

They have routinely destroyed the best teams in knockout ties. Even under Rafa, they beat Real 4-0 at Anfield.

Last time we smashed a team at OT in the CL iirc was Roma. We've rarely had those nights.
 
Peyroteo said:
For two seasons at most. Messi had the best midfield of all time for 4 or 5... :lol:

And he didn't win it 3 times in a row then.



Those 'average performances' are a whole level apart.. Play offensive football so as to funnel their whole attack through Messi and then act surprised when things go to shit if he isn't having a good day. I mean, what else do you expect?

Would you trade Benzema for Suarez? Marcelo for Dani Alves? Modric for Iniesta? Kroos for Xavi? Bale for Neymar? Isco for Coutinho? Dembele for Asensio? Malcom for Vasquez? Busquets for Alonso or Casemiro? How can you even bring up teammates in this conversation when looking at the teammates they've had at both their clubs and internationally only makes Ronaldo's achievements bigger and Messi's smaller?

300 more million this summer on De Jong, De Ligt and whoever else and if Barca fail to win it all we're guaranteed to still hear about how Barcelona is just a shit one man team.
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Imagine blaming Messi for this :lol::lol: Like seriously, comfortably their best player yesterday and CREATED EVERYTHING

Did you miss how atrocious Suarez, Alba and Coutinho? Or how insanely crap the cowardly tactics from Valverde was?

And I'll take most of Ronaldo's squads over the past 5 years over Messi's.

Again, take an excellent midfield that Ronaldo had and he becomes incredibly ordinary. Not even his fault, everyone needs teammates to step up. Messi nearly single handedly took over this Liverpool tie with the advantage in the first leg.

Madrid have been insanely stacked in recent years and comfortably had the better depth as well. Pep era Barca were amazing, as were the front 3 of MSN, but Xavi left in 2015 and Iniesta had been declining for years.
 
Daysleeper said:
Imagine blaming Messi for this :lol::lol: Like seriously, comfortably their best player yesterday and CREATED EVERYTHING

Did you miss how atrocious Suarez, Alba and Coutinho? Or how insanely crap the cowardly tactics from Valverde was?
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I literally did not in any way say that? What the hell are you on about? I didn't even talk about last night's game AT ALL. Did you misquote me?

Daysleeper said:
And I'll take most of Ronaldo's squads over the past 5 years over Messi's.
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Again, when did I talk about last 5 years? I'm talking about their whole careers. Instead of actually agreeing or disagreeing, you choose a completely random amount of time and ignore the discussion completely by making random statements.

If you agree with what I'm saying, just say it. Don't completely shift the discussion to something completely irrelevant that's not even being argued.

Daysleeper said:
Again, take an excellent midfield that Ronaldo had and he becomes incredibly ordinary. Not even his fault, everyone needs teammates to step up. Messi nearly single handedly took over this Liverpool tie with the advantage in the first leg.

Madrid have been insanely stacked in recent years and comfortably had the better depth as well. Pep era Barca were amazing, as were the front 3 of MSN, but Xavi left in 2015 and Iniesta had been declining for years.
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:lol::lol:

Yeah, Pep era Barca were great... so were MSN Barca. But Neymar left two years ago. Not 5 or 6 years ago.

I actually admire the way you've written that so as to make it seem Neymar left in 2015 instead of 2017.

Throughout the entirity of their careers, Messi has no doubt had better teammates than Ronaldo yet it doesn't stop you from having enough shame to excuse his failures by blaming his teammates despite the fact looking at their teammates throughout their careers does nothing but enhance Ronaldo's achievements and diminuish Messi's. Not only is it embarassing, it does the exact opposite of what you're trying to argue. Then again, maybe I'm the stupid one for expecting some sort of logic by someone who calls Ronaldo an incredibly ordinary player.
 
Peyroteo said:
I literally did not in any way say that? What the hell are you on about? I didn't even talk about last night's game AT ALL. Did you misquote me?



Again, when did I talk about last 5 years? I'm talking about their whole careers. Instead of actually agreeing or disagreeing, you choose a completely random amount of time and ignore the discussion completely by making random statements.

If you agree with what I'm saying, just say it. Don't completely shift the discussion to something completely irrelevant that's not even being argued.



:lol::lol:

Yeah, Pep era Barca were great... so were MSN Barca. But Neymar left two years ago. Not 5 or 6 years ago.

I actually admire the way you've written that so as to make it seem Neymar left in 2015 instead of 2017.

Throughout the entirity of their careers, Messi has no doubt had better teammates than Ronaldo yet it doesn't stop you from having enough shame to excuse his failures by blaming his teammates despite the fact looking at their teammates throughout their careers does nothing but enhance Ronaldo's achievements and diminuish Messi's. Not only is it embarassing, it does the exact opposite of what you're trying to argue. Then again, maybe I'm the stupid one for expecting some sort of logic by someone who calls Ronaldo an incredibly ordinary player.
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I’ve ALWAYS said Ronaldo was the greatest CL player of all time and phenomenal overall. Just that without an exquisite midfield he looks ordinary.

And Ronaldo played with a ballon dor winner and World Cup player of the tournament winner. And played some of the great CL players ever at their positions.

Simply playing with Neymar doesn’t Messi has had better teammates in recent years.

Ronaldo has one of the most legendary defenders of all time in Ramos and the greatest midfield of the past 5 years.

Messi has a better team up and through 2015 but it’s been all Ronaldo for teammates since then prior to this year.
 
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