Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Aloysius's Back 3]

So much wrong with this post. Messi with Liverpool, City, or even Tottenham and he would still dominate. You think he wouldn’t be able to put perform Aguero, or salah or mane? I mean seriously!?

As for Ronaldo having better stats that isn’t remotely true. He has better CL stats but Messi will overtake him for total goals if he hasn’t already and trumps him in assists.

Cristiano Ronaldo has played 118 games more than Leo Messi in all his club career and has scored only 1 goals more than the argentinian. Also, Leo Messi has given 45 assists more than Cristiano Ronaldo in all his club career, making a total of 834 goals generated in 684 games (1.22 goals generated by game).

Not sure what you’re on about.

Messi at Liverpool love to see him put a Mane shift on gegenpressin and then wonder if he is going to have the same exact career he did at Barcelona playing possession football.

As said before - reply to me

Messis definitely been better than Ronaldo this year no debate.

However if both retired tomorrow i think Ronaldo would have had the better career

This is something interesting I found online.
Dont know if its been posted here before.


Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi in court:

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden ball? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times.
Messi: Yes, 5 times as well.

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden Boot? Ronaldo: Yes, 4 times. Messi: Same here.

Judge: How many individual trophies have you each won? Ronaldo: 16. Messi: 13.

Judge: Have any of you played for another club’s first team besides your current one? Ronaldo: Yes! Sporting CP in Portugal first division and Manchester United in BPL. Messi: No. Only Barcelona.

Judge: Have any of you won a title with your national team?
Ronaldo: Yes! We won Portugal’s first ever European Championship.
Messi: No.

Judge: How many goals have each of you scored for your respective teams?
Ronaldo: Should I count the goals I’ve scored for Man United and Sporting?

Judge: No. Only for Real Madrid.
Ronaldo: 436 goals in 426 appearances or 9 seasons.
Messi: 539 goals in 625 appearances or 14 seasons.

Judge: Who has scored more hat- tricks in La Liga?
Ronaldo: Me. 35 in La Liga.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I’ve scored 28.

Judge: Which is the most prestigious competition in club football?
Ronaldo: Champions League.
Messi: Champions League.

Judge: Have any of you won Champions League? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times in total with 2 different teams. Once with Man United and 4 times with Madrid.
Messi: Yes, 4 times with Barcelona only. J

Judge: Who has scored more goals in the CL between the two of you?
Ronaldo: I’ve scored 118 goals in the CL. Messi: I’ve scored 100.

Judge: Who has more assists between the two of you in the CL?
Ronaldo: I have 39.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I have 26.

Judge: Who has scored more goals in total in the CL finals?
Ronaldo: Me.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Which one of you have scored more free kicks?
Ronaldo: I have.
Messi: Ronaldo has.

Judge: Most goals with weak foot?
Ronaldo: Me, I think.
Messi: (Nods in agreement).

Judge: Most goals from outside of the box? Ronaldo: Me.. again.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Who has scored more headers? Ronaldo: Is that a serious question?
Messi: ...

Judge: Who has a better penalty conversion rate?
Ronaldo: I think I do. I’ve scored 82% of the penalties I’ve taken.
Messi: I’ve scored 77% of the penalties I’ve taken.

Judge: Which one of you have scored the most goals in total during your career? Ronaldo: I think I have. 647 goals.
Messi: I’ve scored 603

Judge: How many football records do each of you hold in total for both club and country? Ronaldo: 146
Messi: 110

Judge: Well, after analyzing all of the facts that have been presented to me. I can only draw one conclusion when it comes to comparing you both as football players. That conclusion is that Ronaldo is the better player in almost every category. When it comes to goal scoring and accolades for both club and country, Ronaldo comes out on top. Messi, you are without a doubt Barcelona’s best player of all time. But certainly not the world’s best ever. That is clearly Ronaldo at the moment. Messi: But I am younger than Ronaldo and haven’t played as many matches as him. Judge: I understand that, but until you surpass his goal scoring records and win as many trophies both individually and collectively as he has, then Ronaldo will, according to the statistics, be considered as the best football player of all time. Until then, keep pushing on and you just might be able to achieve just as much as Ronaldo.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I see you lean towards the left side of things. Oh boy indeed.

Because one has zero respect for the human tool that is Ben Shapiro, one "leans left"?

I'm just disappointed that he's sullying what is otherwise the most entertaining thread on the Caf.

 

[VanKenny]

I just find it funny how him creating chances and his teammates missing is his teammates letting him down regardless of the fact he was the one that missed the biggest chance of the game. How can it be others' fault for missing chances when he had more and better chances to score than any other player? That's what I don't understand.

Its not funny at all if you take all things into consideration. When Messi played a 10/10 performance on the first leg, and basically gave Barcelona a 90% chance of getting to the final, and on top of that, his teammates ruined 4 or 5 clear chances set up by him that would have sealed the tie on both legs, its hard to criticize him for 1 or 2 misses he had.

Of course he misses sometimes, there is a world class keeper and world class defense in front of him, he can literally score everything, if he had a 100% eficiency rate he would have 2000 goals by now, and 10 CLs.

But no, he misses too, just like every other player in history has.

He scored 2, and created another 6 or 7 chances in the two legs. One of them ended up being a goal. So he had around 9 great plays and 2 "misses" or mistakes. The balance is in favor of Messi, by far. Its not like he made 2 chances and ruined another 6 chances by himself like some people make it sound here.

And thats exactly the problem with this thread, some people basically close their eyes, put their fingers on their ears and just repeat 10x "Messi bottler, Messi out again, not a big game player". So ridiculous.

Had Pique scored a wonder header in the 90' minute and bailed Messi out of his "horrible" game, nobody here would even dare saying Messi had anything but an amazing semifinal.

 

[Pocho]

Messi at Liverpool love to see him put a Mane shift on gegenpressin and then wonder if he is going to have the same exact career he did at Barcelona playing possession football.

As said before - reply to me

Messis definitely been better than Ronaldo this year no debate.

However if both retired tomorrow i think Ronaldo would have had the better career

This is something interesting I found online.
Dont know if its been posted here before.


Cristiano Ronaldo vs Lionel Messi in court:

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden ball? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times.
Messi: Yes, 5 times as well.

Judge: Have any of you won the Golden Boot? Ronaldo: Yes, 4 times. Messi: Same here.

Judge: How many individual trophies have you each won? Ronaldo: 16. Messi: 13.

Judge: Have any of you played for another club’s first team besides your current one? Ronaldo: Yes! Sporting CP in Portugal first division and Manchester United in BPL. Messi: No. Only Barcelona.

Judge: Have any of you won a title with your national team?
Ronaldo: Yes! We won Portugal’s first ever European Championship.
Messi: No.

Judge: How many goals have each of you scored for your respective teams?
Ronaldo: Should I count the goals I’ve scored for Man United and Sporting?

Judge: No. Only for Real Madrid.
Ronaldo: 436 goals in 426 appearances or 9 seasons.
Messi: 539 goals in 625 appearances or 14 seasons.

Judge: Who has scored more hat- tricks in La Liga?
Ronaldo: Me. 35 in La Liga.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I’ve scored 28.

Judge: Which is the most prestigious competition in club football?
Ronaldo: Champions League.
Messi: Champions League.

Judge: Have any of you won Champions League? Ronaldo: Yes, 5 times in total with 2 different teams. Once with Man United and 4 times with Madrid.
Messi: Yes, 4 times with Barcelona only. J

Judge: Who has scored more goals in the CL between the two of you?
Ronaldo: I’ve scored 118 goals in the CL. Messi: I’ve scored 100.

Judge: Who has more assists between the two of you in the CL?
Ronaldo: I have 39.
Messi: Ronaldo has. I have 26.

Judge: Who has scored more goals in total in the CL finals?
Ronaldo: Me.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Which one of you have scored more free kicks?
Ronaldo: I have.
Messi: Ronaldo has.

Judge: Most goals with weak foot?
Ronaldo: Me, I think.
Messi: (Nods in agreement).

Judge: Most goals from outside of the box? Ronaldo: Me.. again.
Messi: Ronaldo.

Judge: Who has scored more headers? Ronaldo: Is that a serious question?
Messi: ...

Judge: Who has a better penalty conversion rate?
Ronaldo: I think I do. I’ve scored 82% of the penalties I’ve taken.
Messi: I’ve scored 77% of the penalties I’ve taken.

Judge: Which one of you have scored the most goals in total during your career? Ronaldo: I think I have. 647 goals.
Messi: I’ve scored 603

Judge: How many football records do each of you hold in total for both club and country? Ronaldo: 146
Messi: 110

Judge: Well, after analyzing all of the facts that have been presented to me. I can only draw one conclusion when it comes to comparing you both as football players. That conclusion is that Ronaldo is the better player in almost every category. When it comes to goal scoring and accolades for both club and country, Ronaldo comes out on top. Messi, you are without a doubt Barcelona’s best player of all time. But certainly not the world’s best ever. That is clearly Ronaldo at the moment. Messi: But I am younger than Ronaldo and haven’t played as many matches as him. Judge: I understand that, but until you surpass his goal scoring records and win as many trophies both individually and collectively as he has, then Ronaldo will, according to the statistics, be considered as the best football player of all time. Until then, keep pushing on and you just might be able to achieve just as much as Ronaldo.

Wasn't funny the first time they've post it, imagine now.

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi at Liverpool love to see him put a Mane shift on gegenpressin and then wonder if he is going to have the same exact career he did at Barcelona playing possession football.

As said before - reply to me

Messis definitely been better than Ronaldo this year no debate.

However if both retired tomorrow i think Ronaldo would have had the better career

And you whine about the lack of wonder goals but clearly missed the goals against Liverpool, Bayern and United

You can say Ronaldo has the better resume, can't argue that, but when you watch both of them week in and week out its pretty obvious Messi is better.

 

[Cal?]

Lyon, United, first leg against Liverpool

You do know the difference between rescuing a tie or just winning a game? What did he rescue against United? Barca were never behind since the moment the OG went in.

Liverpool should have won in 2018 and Atletico in 2016. That team did not deserve two, much less three in a row. Disgrace.

What? You can make a case for Atletico. What did Liverpool do last year to deserve it? Having an awful keeper?

His greatness comes from the fact he makes everyone around him better while simultaneously every single player turns to shit as soon as they're playing next to him so as to always form a one man team full of proven world class players he has to carry. You might thing this is completely nonsensical but it's actually too genius for you to understand.

Well summed up

The 2016-2017 side is arguably the deepest team ever assembled in world football.

Their 2nd stringers essentially won La Liga at the tail-end of the season.

That 2017 CL winning side and Ronaldo's CL knockout stage run is the greatest ever CL run by any player ever.

So much wrong with this post. Messi with Liverpool, City, or even Tottenham and he would still dominate. You think he wouldn’t be able to put perform Aguero, or salah or mane? I mean seriously!?

As for Ronaldo having better stats that isn’t remotely true. He has better CL stats but Messi will overtake him for total goals if he hasn’t already and trumps him in assists.

Cristiano Ronaldo has played 118 games more than Leo Messi in all his club career and has scored only 1 goals more than the argentinian. Also, Leo Messi has given 45 assists more than Cristiano Ronaldo in all his club career, making a total of 834 goals generated in 684 games (1.22 goals generated by game).

Not sure what you’re on about.

How many times do we need to explain stat padding against Betis or Girona & co doesn't mean as much as CL knockout stage goals against the best sides?

 

[Rito]

And you whine about the lack of wonder goals but clearly missed the goals against Liverpool, Bayern and United

You can say Ronaldo has the better resume, can't argue that, but when you watch both of them week in and week out its pretty obvious Messi is better.

Genuinely curious, what did the "eye test" say regarding his game at Anfield?

 

[Daysleeper]

Genuinely curious, what did the "eye test" say regarding his game at Anfield?

That he was comfortably the best player for Barca, created every single chance they had, and without him they wouldn't even be in a position to have the lead in the tie to begin with.

 

[Daysleeper]

You do know the difference between rescuing a tie or just winning a game? What did he rescue against United? Barca were never behind since the moment the OG went in.

What? You can make a case for Atletico. What did Liverpool do last year to deserve it? Having an awful keeper?

Well summed up

That 2017 CL winning side and Ronaldo's CL knockout stage run is the greatest ever CL run by any player ever.

How many times do we need to explain stat padding against Betis or Girona & co doesn't mean as much as CL knockout stage goals against the best sides?

And how many times is it worth mentioning that Messi has scored against United, Bayern, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid, Arsenal, and Juventus MULTIPLE times

Messi 2015 faced much tougher competition than Ronaldo 2017.


Thanks for trying

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Wasn't funny the first time they've post it, imagine now.

And what makes you think I did it for fun? I just copied and pasted it because I could not be bothered for all the stats that show C. Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi.

But Messi scores more wonder goals so he is the best whilst everything else points to Ronaldo. As @Daysleeper said - Ronaldo has the better resume. For that he is the better player.

 

[Oga on top.]

Ronaldo is better. I changed. I hated him because of his connection to United but he’s better. No chance in hell Ronaldo doesn’t get an away goal if he was at Anfield.

 

[Casanova85]

Both showed up in certain games (CR vs Atlético, Messi vs Liverpool in Camp Nou) but in the end they both sank when their teams were at their worst.

Perhaps we will never see CR or Messi lifting another UCL, who knows...

 

[De Portago]

And what makes you think I did it for fun? I just copied and pasted it because I could not be bothered for all the stats that show C. Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi.

But Messi scores more wonder goals so he is the best whilst everything else points to Ronaldo. As @Daysleeper said - Ronaldo has the better resume. For that he is the better player.

Their resumes are fairly well balanced, there's no way to clearly determine which one is better. One CL and EC more for Ronaldo, with 4 league titles and 3 national cups less. Ditto the goalscoring and all the other records.

Having said that, Toni Kroos resume is better that Zidane's. Is anyone here willing to champion Kroos as the superior player?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Ronaldo is better. I changed. I hated him because of his connection to United but he’s better. No chance in hell Ronaldo doesn’t get an away goal if he was at Anfield.

Ronaldo probably doesn't score the free-kick in the first leg, Liverpool lose 2-0 but win second leg 4-1 etc.

This is a thread of extremes but both Messi and Ronaldo were very good in the CL knockouts this season but were let down by team-mates. Messi had a good game at Anfield I thought but didn't have much help. At this point I'm not sure another CL win for either player will change anyone's mind about who is better, there is too much preceding evidence on who you prefer and people's minds are made up. I'm often amused by fans of a player going like 'he scored 2 here he's definitely better' in a random match like those goals are the ones that have decided it, not the 600 before that and the many more to come.

 

[Cal?]

And how many times is it worth mentioning that Messi has scored against United, Bayern, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid, Arsenal, and Juventus MULTIPLE times

Messi 2015 faced much tougher competition than Ronaldo 2017.

Thanks for trying

The stats were posted a few pages back, Ronaldo's record is FAR better, also, are you going to pretend Arsenal are in the same company as the rest in the last few years? And conveniently leave out Atletico?

Messi's 2015 CL: City, PSG, Bayern, Juve
Ronaldo's 2017 CL: Napoli, Bayern, Atletico, Juve

Remember that's Pellegrini City not St Pep City, are you seriously claiming it's "much" tougher, if at all.

However, the key issue here is Messi scored a grand 2 goals in 7 games, Ronaldo scored 10!!

 

[Daysleeper]

Ronaldo is better. I changed. I hated him because of his connection to United but he’s better. No chance in hell Ronaldo doesn’t get an away goal if he was at Anfield.

Really? Because he had zero against Liverpool only last year

 

[Daysleeper]

The stats were posted a few pages back, Ronaldo's record is FAR better, also, are you going to pretend Arsenal are in the same company as the rest in the last few years? And conveniently leave out Atletico?

Messi's 2015 CL: City, PSG, Bayern, Juve
Ronaldo's 2017 CL: Napoli, Bayern, Atletico, Juve

Remember that's Pellegrini City not St Pep City, are you seriously claiming it's "much" tougher, if at all.

However, the key issue here is Messi scored a grand 2 goals in 7 games, Ronaldo scored 10!!

Pellegrini's city were defending champions of england, not as good as Pep's team but still good. Juventus were worse in 2017, as were Bayern.

And that is your problem, you only look at goals. I'd take Messi's performance over City than any Ronaldo performance.

 

[Daysleeper]

And what makes you think I did it for fun? I just copied and pasted it because I could not be bothered for all the stats that show C. Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi.

But Messi scores more wonder goals so he is the best whilst everything else points to Ronaldo. As @Daysleeper said - Ronaldo has the better resume. For that he is the better player.

No, he's not. Xabi Alonso has a better resume than Zidane, does that make him better?

 

[Tostao_80]

And what makes you think I did it for fun? I just copied and pasted it because I could not be bothered for all the stats that show C. Ronaldo is better than Lionel Messi.

But Messi scores more wonder goals so he is the best whilst everything else points to Ronaldo. As @Daysleeper said - Ronaldo has the better resume. For that he is the better player.

Since when does having the best resume qualify you to being the better player? Doesn't Gerd Muller have a better resume than Cruyff and Diego? Must make him the player.

 

[mdvmia]

His greatness comes from the fact he makes everyone around him better while simultaneously every single player turns to shit as soon as they're playing next to him so as to always form a one man team full of proven world class players he has to carry. You might thing this is completely nonsensical but it's actually too genius for you to understand.

Unironic comment considering you've been trying to argue that a team which won seven league titles in a row and reached two CL finals in the previous four years suddenly became shit and needed to be carried by Ronaldo once he arrived.

 

[gibers]

Meh @Peyroteo & @totaalvoetbal have said it all.

I think Messi is a big reason Barca will not win the champions league again.

People criticise Valverder (I do he is trash tbh) but what can he do to get the best out of Messi?

The laziest top player I have ever seen. Has to play in the middle and of course his best mate Suarez has to play so BArca have to play 442 or 343 to accommodate his laziness.

The intensity Liverpool dished out was soemthing Barca couldnt live with. Messi looked gassed after 30 mins.

 

[Casanova85]

Meh @Peyroteo & @totaalvoetbal have said it all.

I think Messi is a big reason Barca will not win the champions league again.

People criticise Valverder (I do he is trash tbh) but what can he do to get the best out of Messi?

The laziest top player I have ever seen. Has to play in the middle and of course his best mate Suarez has to play so BArca have to play 442 or 343 to accommodate his laziness.

The intensity Liverpool dished out was soemthing Barca couldnt live with. Messi looked gassed after 30 mins.

That's some rubbish. That's the way argentinians talk. Barça fans know better. Messi is the reason why Barça went to Anfield with a 3-0 lead. Valverde, Coutinho, Busquets, Alba and Lenglet is why Barça collapsed.

What does a manager need to make Messi shine at his brightest? Easy. A 4-3-3, Messi surrounded by top players so he can go GOAT mode. Messi was surrounded by some of the very best players available in 2009, 2011 and 2015.

So, I'll admit this much: Messi is a Top Player, but needs other Top Players to reach GOAT status.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Barca fans justifying how good City were in 2015 when they made top 4 on GD
Juve 2017 who conceded like 3 goals until the final were worse than 2015

 

[gibers]

That's some rubbish. That's the way argentinians talk. Barça fans know better. Messi is the reason why Barça went to Anfield with a 3-0 lead. Valverde, Coutinho, Busquets, Alba and Lenglet is why Barça collapsed.

What does a manager need to make Messi shine at his brightest? Easy. A 4-3-3, Messi surrounded by top players so he can go GOAT mode. Messi was surrounded by some of the very best players available in 2009, 2011 and 2015.

So, I'll admit this much: Messi is a Top Player, but needs other Top Players to reach GOAT status.

433 with Messi

Where would he play? The fake RW/AM leaving his flank exposed, forcing the cm to go wide and leaving Busquets outnumbered in MF. Messi is lazy as feck. Works okay in a LaLiga but at the highest level in the cl, his lack of movement hurts the team.

Of Course Messi will carry Barca who else will when he is the centre of Barcas universe. does no defensive thing, forces his mf to be outnumbered, 0 off the ball movment.

Liverpool lost that game because they couldn't finish. Where was Messi in the second leg? Flopped 4 years in a row now.

 

[Gehrman]

Meh @Peyroteo & @totaalvoetbal have said it all.

I think Messi is a big reason Barca will not win the champions league again.

People criticise Valverder (I do he is trash tbh) but what can he do to get the best out of Messi?

The laziest top player I have ever seen. Has to play in the middle and of course his best mate Suarez has to play so BArca have to play 442 or 343 to accommodate his laziness.

The intensity Liverpool dished out was soemthing Barca couldnt live with. Messi looked gassed after 30 mins.

So you are saying this year CL topscorer and Liga topscorer is the reason why Barcelona won't win another CL? He's provided the goals that got them to the semi finals and scored 2 in semi's as well. I hardly think Messi the reason why they won't win another CL. It's not his fault Barca's defense imploded and let in 4 goals. Obviously his own bad fperformance was part of it, but the rest of team such as Suarez and Dembele need to chip in with some goals as well.

As Messi is getting older though it will be interesting how long he can keep up his scoring rate. He doesn't have the athletiscm of Ronaldo to compensate his age.

 

[De Portago]

433 with Messi

Where would he play? The fake RW/AM leaving his flank exposed, forcing the cm to go wide and leaving Busquets outnumbered in MF. Messi is lazy as feck. Works okay in a LaLiga but at the highest level in the cl, his lack of movement hurts the team.

Of Course Messi will carry Barca who else will when he is the centre of Barcas universe. does no defensive thing, forces his mf to be outnumbered, 0 off the ball movment.

Liverpool lost that game because they couldn't finish. Where was Messi in the second leg? Flopped 4 years in a row now.

Funny that fake AM/RW worked great in 2015, difference being that they had an actual RB (they have one now, but he rides the bench most of the time) and Rakitić was still able to offer some running.

 

[gibers]

So you are saying this year CL topscorer and Liga topscorer is the reason why Barcelona won't win another CL? He's provided the goals that got them to the semi finals and scored 2 in semi's as well. I hardly think Messi the reason why they won't win another CL. It's not his fault Barca's defense imploded and let in 4 goals. Obviously his own bad fperformance was part of it, but the rest of team such as Suarez and Dembele need to chip in with some goals as well.

As Messi is getting older though it will be interesting how long he can keep up his scoring rate. He doesn't have the athletiscm of Ronaldo to compensate his age.

He can score all the goals he wants. Barcelona dont defend on the front and can't sit deep and defend an onslaught. Liverpool showed them up. Messi's walking and poor off the ball movement contributes to Barcas poor European form.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Since when does having the best resume qualify you to being the better player? Doesn't Gerd Muller have a better resume than Cruyff and Diego? Must make him the player.

Pele has a fantastic resume & he was the greatest to many who had not seen him.

 

[gibers]

Funny that fake AM/RW worked great in 2015, difference being that they had an actual RB (they have one now, but he rides the bench most of the time) and Rakitić was still able to offer some running.

And after the opposition figured it out what happened? The mighty MSN won 1 cl and then lost laliga to Real. Messi stopped staying wide and came inside and Barca became easier to defend. In fact, barcas best run the season after their cl season was when Messi was out!

Messi came back in the classico where Neymar and Suarez destroyed Madrid and immediately he came on Madrid created 2 chances. Barcas best results in the classico in the last few years have been without Messi.

Messi's positioning is a problem. He can't play as a flase 9 anymore and he doesn't stay wide. So bara have to either play 343 or 442 .

It is what it is.

 

[Peyroteo]

Unironic comment considering you've been trying to argue that a team which won seven league titles in a row and reached two CL finals in the previous four years suddenly became shit and needed to be carried by Ronaldo once he arrived.

Show me one time where I've said that. One. Please.

Easy to make people look like idiots when you literally make up what they say and then argue against it.

 

[Casanova85]

433 with Messi

Where would he play? The fake RW/AM blah blah...

Same place he played for most of 2014-17: fake RW/SS. But those were the days of Suárez reaching nearly-GOAT status in some matches-moments. It's Valverde the fool who introduced the frigging 4-4-2 with Coutinho as a fake (and disastrous) LW/LMF.

Liverpool lost that game because they couldn't finish.

Yes, a team that can't score usually loses a match, and if a team can't score is because the opposition defends properly and some more. Barça's defense did not collapse in the first match at CN.

Where was Messi in the second leg?

Where was the whole team, you mean, including the GK. Where was Suárez?

Flopped 4 years in a row now.

I wouldn't call 2018 and 2019 flops, but two consecutive collapses of Valverde and his incoherent 4-4-2 tactics against hyperactive teams with nothing to lose. Juve thrashing Barça 3-0 in 2017 is no different than Bayern thrashing Barça 7-0 in 2013: simply the better club that year.

 

[Tostao_80]

Pele has a fantastic resume & he was the greatest to many who had not seen him.

Whats Pele got to do with whether Gerd Muller had a better resume than Cruyff and Maradonna and whether that made Muller better than Cruyff and Diego?
Busquets has a better resume than Frank Rijkaard, does that make him better?
We can really go on with countless examples.

 

[De Portago]

And after the opposition figured it out what happened? The mighty MSN won 1 cl and then lost laliga to Real. Messi stopped staying wide and came inside and Barca became easier to defend. In fact, barcas best run the season after their cl season was when Messi was out!

Messi came back in the classico where Neymar and Suarez destroyed Madrid and immediately he came on Madrid created 2 chances. Barcas best results in the classico in the last few years have been without Messi.

Messi's positioning is a problem. He can't play as a flase 9 anymore and he doesn't stay wide. So bara have to either play 343 or 442 .

It is what it is.

What did they figure out exactly? You need a mobile and pacey RB (Roberto is neither), and a right midfielder that has the stamina to assume the RW position when Messi moves centrally, it's not rocket science for god's sake. Play Semedo and an actual mobile midfielder in the right central midfield slot, and it can still work.

Barcelona's central midfield in both these games against Liverpool was probably the worst I've seen them collectively and individually, and they on occasion fielded some real dross there in the last 20 years. Vidal is the only one that actually was worth his spot, Busquets and Rakitić were absolutely abysmal, especially in the second leg. Not that it was a surprise for anyone except Valverde...

 

[Righteous Steps]

Am i missing something or did Ronaldo not get knocked out to a very young Ajax team?

 

[Daysleeper]

Am i missing something or did Ronaldo not get knocked out to a very young Ajax team?

But he scored a goal so it’s okay

 

[SportingCP96]

And you whine about the lack of wonder goals but clearly missed the goals against Liverpool, Bayern and United

You can say Ronaldo has the better resume, can't argue that, but when you watch both of them week in and week out its pretty obvious Messi is better.

Thats not how you decide a GOAT. There are many quarterbacks arguably more talented then Tom Brady but it is pretty obvious who is the GOAT. Just to name 1 example.

 

[SportingCP96]

Am i missing something or did Ronaldo not get knocked out to a very young Ajax team?

Losing to arguably what has been the best or second best team in the tournament this year or losing a 3-0 lead and getting destroyed 4-0 no where to be found.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Messi can still play the false 9 role IMO, but you'd need to cover him with 2 wingers to make up for Messi's lack of pressing or contribution in defensive transitions + the midfield would have to be better than it currently is.

Suarez and him can longer play together at a high level in the CL. It's suicidal having 2 players who barely cover ground during non-possession phases.

That said, I don't see how he specifically can be criticized for the Liverpool tie. He did enough for the team to win.

 

[Pocho]

Meh @Peyroteo & @totaalvoetbal have said it all.

I think Messi is a big reason Barca will not win the champions league again.

People criticise Valverder (I do he is trash tbh) but what can he do to get the best out of Messi?

The laziest top player I have ever seen. Has to play in the middle and of course his best mate Suarez has to play so BArca have to play 442 or 343 to accommodate his laziness.

The intensity Liverpool dished out was soemthing Barca couldnt live with. Messi looked gassed after 30 mins.

hahah thats like an Everest of bollocks

 

[Pocho]

Pele has a fantastic resume & he was the greatest to many who had not seen him.

He only won 2 Copas Libertadores, imagine that. Like 13 Copas he didn´t win, very poor for a GOAT.