Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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Hahaha imagine comparing this year’s Atletico to the ones from 2014 and 2016 who went to the UCL

I can just as easily say Ronaldo’s teammates failing him? The ones who went to 2 UCL finals in the last 4 years? They weren’t good enough?

Go check Juve's 2015 CL final team and tell me how many players are still at the club. Teammates? Which teammates?

Didn't Atletico went to 2 CL finals in the past 5 years? So Juve are great because they went to 2 CL finals in 5 years. Atletico went to 2 CL finals in 4 years, but they aren't great. Great. That's some fantastic logic right there.

Go check Juve's 2015 CL final lineup and tell me how many players are still at the club. Not that this matters in the slightest as you already know this and will keep making the same point over and over again despite knowing how wrong it is :lol:

And Messi deserves the Ballon D'Or and has had a brilliant season, finally performed in the CL. Watching Barcelona surpass Cristiano Ronaldo for CL titles will be an historic day and it would be deserved after the club made an investment no other club can make.

And I got temp banned for a harmless joke in the Casillas thread for some reason for those that tagged me...
 
Go check Juve's 2015 CL final team and tell me how many players are still at the club. Teammates? Which teammates?

Interesting choice to omit the 2017 side which is essentially the same team with Cristiano replacing Higuaín.
 
Messi is more talented, I don't think anyone can argue that. He can do many many things at the highest level for a very long time, which is never happened in the football's world since Pele, and we all know football evolved a lot since Pele's era. Messi's football is also much more beautiful to watch, especially since Ronaldo become the striker.

However, winning at football is not always about being more talented, it's also about the determination, strength, teammates, and luck as well. Brazil 1982 was super talented but they still didn't win the World Cup. It's very hard to argue player vs player in a team game since it's close to impossible to correctly "evaluate" the individual contribution. Who's the best defender? the best defensive midfield? the best left back? Who's better between Xavi or Scholes? Zidane vs Platini? Maradona vs Messi?

Personally, I prefer the use of "tier", and I think both of them are GOAT tier with Messi being the better one. But I understand and can respect that some people think Ronaldo is better. Ultimately if you build your team around Messi or Ronaldo, the result is pretty equal (Ronaldo has a great team that supports his style and so does Messi), so even I acknowledge that Messi is better he can't be THAT much better. Ronaldo is also extremely talented and his records (even his assists is good for a supposed "selfish" player) and achievement speaks for itself. In my opinion, if there is no Messi, Ronaldo will definitely be considered as a contender for GOAT tier, so even with the existent of Messi, he should still be considered the same.
 
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The notion that Messi couldn’t destroy the EPL is hilarious to me. The physicality aspect is massively over stated. The best players in our league are mostly midgets. Aguero, Hazard, Silva, Sterling are all small quick players who tear other teams to shreds on a weekly basis. Messi would break every record going if he had played over here. Same as Ronaldo would have if he stayed at United his whole career.

The idea that going to Juve and winning a title in another league is a great achievement is somewhat diminished by the fact that Juve were already head and shoulders above their opposition before he joined. If Messi had gone to Bayern and won the German league it would have been equally unimportant to his legacy.

We have bought into the Sky hype machine that the EPL is some sort of ultimate league and the only one that matters if you want to prove yourself as a player. It’s ridiculous!
 
The same Atletico who are 2nd in La Liga

How many of the Juve side in the final 2015 are still there?

GK 1 Italy Gianluigi Buffon (c)
RB 26 Switzerland Stephan Lichtsteiner
CB 15 Italy Andrea Barzagli
CB 19 Italy Leonardo Bonucci
LB 33 France Patrice Evra Substituted off 89'
DM 21 Italy Andrea Pirlo
RM 8 Italy Claudio Marchisio
LM 6 France Paul Pogba Yellow card 41'
AM 23 Chile Arturo Vidal Yellow card 11' Substituted off 79'
CF 10 Argentina Carlos Tevez
CF 9 Spain Álvaro Morata

2017:
GK 1 Italy Gianluigi Buffon (c)
CB 15 Italy Andrea Barzagli Substituted off 66'
CB 19 Italy Leonardo Bonucci
CB 3 Italy Giorgio Chiellini
RM 23 Brazil Dani Alves
CM 5 Bosnia and Herzegovina Miralem Pjanić Yellow card 66' Substituted off 71'
CM 6 Germany Sami Khedira
LM 12 Brazil Alex Sandro Yellow card 70'
AM 21 Argentina Paulo Dybala Yellow card 12' Substituted off 78'
CF 9 Argentina Gonzalo Higuaín
CF 17 Croatia Mario Mandžukić

Liverpool lost to Crvena Zvezda, your point is?

The point isn't Atletico v Liverpool anyway, it's that Ronaldo v AM was a better performance than Messi v Liverpool

Except that it wasn’t, messi’s Performance was better
 
Go check Juve's 2015 CL final team and tell me how many players are still at the club. Teammates? Which teammates?

Didn't Atletico went to 2 CL finals in the past 5 years? So Juve are great because they went to 2 CL finals in 5 years. Atletico went to 2 CL finals in 4 years, but they aren't great. Great. That's some fantastic logic right there.

Go check Juve's 2015 CL final lineup and tell me how many players are still at the club. Not that this matters in the slightest as you already know this and will keep making the same point over and over again despite knowing how wrong it is :lol:

And Messi deserves the Ballon D'Or and has had a brilliant season, finally performed in the CL. Watching Barcelona surpass Cristiano Ronaldo for CL titles will be an historic day and it would be deserved after the club made an investment no other club can make.

And I got temp banned for a harmless joke in the Casillas thread for some reason for those that tagged me...

I was showing Cal how dumb it is to compare modern Juventus/Atletico to teams of the last. I think both teams are weaker than they have been in years.
 
To claim that Ronaldo is better than Messi is like claiming that Gerd Muller was better than Maradona.

Actually it’s even more idiotic, because at least Muller scored more goals than Maradona. Ronaldo isn’t even decisively better than Messi at the one thing he’s great at.
It's really ignorant how a lot of people limit Muller just to a goalscorer, I suggest you actually watch a few games of his not just the highlights reel.
 
I was showing Cal how dumb it is to compare modern Juventus/Atletico to teams of the last. I think both teams are weaker than they have been in years.
Atletico are definitely worse now than they were in 2016. Not sure they're particularly worse than the 2017 side

Juve are definitely the strongest they've been since 2006 though. That they went out to Ajax does not change that, in CL you need luck and they didn't have it this time
 
I don't need stats or team achievments to tell me which one is better. It's obvious just from watching them play that Messi is a level above. Ronaldo is the best of the humans, but Messi isn't human.
 
The notion that Messi couldn’t destroy the EPL is hilarious to me. The physicality aspect is massively over stated. The best players in our league are mostly midgets. Aguero, Hazard, Silva, Sterling are all small quick players who tear other teams to shreds on a weekly basis. Messi would break every record going if he had played over here. Same as Ronaldo would have if he stayed at United his whole career.

The idea that going to Juve and winning a title in another league is a great achievement is somewhat diminished by the fact that Juve were already head and shoulders above their opposition before he joined. If Messi had gone to Bayern and won the German league it would have been equally unimportant to his legacy.

We have bought into the Sky hype machine that the EPL is some sort of ultimate league and the only one that matters if you want to prove yourself as a player. It’s ridiculous!

I've not heard a single person say that Buffon has enhanced his reputation during his PSG stint because he's "done it in another league" yet Cristiano going to Juve for their annual cake walk to the scudetto is supposed to prove something apparently.

The idea that the Premier League is so physically arduous belongs in the 90s too. There are hardly any true shithouse teams in the league these days and players aren't allowed to get away with murder by refs any more. The difference between the leagues is negligable. PL managers certainly seem to favour "powerhouse" type midfielders compared to coaches in other leagues but, as you say, it's the skillful midgets who are dominating the league.

If you want truly dirty, physical shithouse football, try CONMEBOL. You know, that region where Messi regularly trashes the best national teams.
 
It's really ignorant how a lot of people limit Muller just to a goalscorer, I suggest you actually watch a few games of his not just the highlights reel.
Muller was more than just a goalscorer, just like Ronaldo is more than just a goalscorer, but his overall game doesn't compare to Messi or Maradona.
 
No, it doesn't. I've played football my whole life, I used to watch it a lot more when I was younger and even spent much time reading in-depth tactical blogs and some coaching stuff. I've tried so many times to have a somewhat substantial discussion with you but if anyone delivers you an argument that even requires a slight understanding of football you back out and counter with an argument like "oh wow the Messi brigade boys hyping up dribbles so much again. If that's so important why has Ronaldo scored more in the KO stages of the CL?"
It's plain and simple, as soon as there's a debate that regards more complex concepts of the sports, like how dribblings and intelligent/progressive passes create space, superiority or retain possession, you can't participate any longer and try to ridicule the argument with romanticism or small mindedness or whatever.

See, in many TV broadcasts there are always these kind of situations when an attack is taking place and some smart ass director thinks that a close-up of the player is a spectacular view and thus the right thing to do. You immediately see which people know football because those that do are annoyed af because they can't see the other players' movements and thus can't know what's about to happen next. If the player made a mistake by not playing, if he should've searched the 1 on 1, if should've shot and so forth.

Those who don't have a clue are okay with it because they simply don't pay attention to those things. I'm completely sure in which camp you belong. You confirmed so often that you don't understand the importance of dribbles and passes unleass they immediately lead to a goal. Heck you didn't even acknowledge Messi's run before the 2:0. You don't even understand that this goal wouldn't have happened without him causing complete chaos since four Liverpool players tightly around him couldn't take the ball away from him in a controlled manner. And this was one of his unimpressive dribbles in that match, it could've easily happened even earlier or after one of his defense splitting passes (which are often only possible because he created the space and the lane necessary for this pass through dribbling past 2-3 players beforehand). As I said, nothing you post implies that you recognize and understand these things, so why on earth should I think that you have even the slightest clue?

What you don't understand is that for people who actually know the sport the things that happen before the goal are often if not to say usually more impressive than the goal itself. And this is because breaking defenses is the most difficult aspect of playing football and more often than not the one that scores the goal is only perfecting what was already a series of 3-4 great plays before that.

No you don't. You just come up with this as some strange "revenge" thing, just like you always do when you don't like someone's argument.

And no, football can't be quantified, especially not things like interdependencies between playing styles, day form and so forth. At least not yet. That is at least if you haven't developed a statistical model for that purpose which functions better than all the most advanced comparable tools (xG, packing rate and all this stuff that usually has Messi up front by the way, but probably they are also simply a part of the Messi brigade). In this case, I'd recommend you found a company for that, pretty sure you can make a fortune with that :)
You seem to be under the illusion that playing the game somehow makes you an expert, and have a very narrow minded view about the "important aspects". Your obsession with dribbling has also clouded your mind to other key factors like runs off the ball, timing, etc.

Just answer this, if it was as clear as you claim that Messi is miles and miles better, how come there are plenty who have played football to a much higher level who agree with my view that Ronaldo is better? Are they all somewhat clueless or they just value different aspects of the game?.

If you even have the slightest clue how bookmaking works, you'd realize that football can be quantified over a long run.
 
I've not heard a single person say that Buffon has enhanced his reputation during his PSG stint because he's "done it in another league" yet Cristiano going to Juve for their annual cake walk to the scudetto is supposed to prove something apparently.

The idea that the Premier League is so physically arduous belongs in the 90s too. There are hardly any true shithouse teams in the league these days and players aren't allowed to get away with murder by refs any more. The difference between the leagues is negligable. PL managers certainly seem to favour "powerhouse" type midfielders compared to coaches in other leagues but, as you say, it's the skillful midgets who are dominating the league.

If you want truly dirty, physical shithouse football, try CONMEBOL. You know, that region where Messi regularly trashes the best national teams.
Yet has failed spectacularly to win the Copa America in whatever number of attempts. Why does the Copa get played so randomly anyway?
 
You seem to be under the illusion that playing the game somehow makes you an expert, and have a very narrow minded view about the "important aspects". Your obsession with dribbling has also clouded your mind to other key factors like runs off the ball, timing, etc.

Just answer this, if it was as clear as you claim that Messi is miles and miles better, how come there are plenty who have played football to a much higher level who agree with my view that Ronaldo is better? Are they all somewhat clueless or they just value different aspects of the game?.

If you even have the slightest clue how bookmaking works, you'd realize that football can be quantified over a long run.

How come there's more who think Messi is better then?

There's more footballers who think Messi is better than vice-versa.
 
Except that it wasn’t, messi’s Performance was better
Considering some of you tried to claim he was good at OT and basically think he never has a bad performance, whereas Ronaldo is apparently a passenger every game who regularly scores headers and tap ins, so I'm not surprised you see it that way.
 
Not fair to compare players of different ages and eras. Neither should we look solely on stats.

We should instead look at how a player makes you feel. If they have the ability to get you off your seat and shake your head in disbelief.

Take the purest supporters, young children who don't know stats. Most of them love Messi or Ronaldo more than any other player. That tells you those two are gods of the game. No other players have done what they have done, consistently.

For me it should be a tie, but because football is a team sport, I know who I'd prefer as a team mate. Because of that, the guy who just shades it, is Messi.
 
How come there's more who think Messi is better then?

There's more footballers who think Messi is better than vice-versa.
That just means that there's an argument to be had, it's about personal opinions and not a fact that the Messi brigade claim it is.
 
That just means that there's an argument to be had, it's about personal opinions and not a fact that the Messi brigade claim it is.

But there's more people who think Messi is better.

Every football forum bar maybe a Real Madrid one will also think Messi is better.

Obviously it's not a 'fact', but thinking Ronaldo is better makes you in the minority.
 
Take the purest supporters, young children who don't know stats. Most of them love Messi or Ronaldo more than any other player. That tells you those two are gods of the game. No other players have done what they have done, consistently.

Kids just like whatever’s popular. If Gary Doherty was on every ad and on the cover of every magazine, he’d probably be their favourite player.
 
That just means that there's an argument to be had, it's about personal opinions and not a fact that the Messi brigade claim it is.
Problem is, the minority that think Cristiano is better are other Sporting/Portuguese, or United, Real fans, who would be biased anyway.

Very rarely you see neutral fans saying Cristiano is better.
 
Except that it wasn’t, messi’s Performance was better

To each their own I guess, but I just rewatched all Ronaldo contacts against Atletico and how anyone can think this was a better performance than Messi's against Liverpool is beyond me. Ronaldo had some decent dribbles and retained the ball well, but most of that happened in areas that posed no particular danger and the dribbles he had usually lead to possession losses (blocked crosses etc.). He didn't create chances for his team mates either apart from one cross that found the head of a Juve player in the box.

Messi on the other hand scored two, one of those an incredible free kick, one a tap in after Suarez hit the crossbar through a chance Messi created himself, set up three to four clear cut chances through good to great plays (Vidal, Suarez, Dembele, Coutinho [who was marginally offside, still great dribble and pass]), initiated many attacks (through one of his quick turns, switches of play, one twos..) and retained possession/drew fouls under much pressure of the opponent. Ronaldo wasn't bad or anything apart from his goals, in fact that was probably the best match I've seen from him in the last 4-5 years in the CL, at least in terms of overall play, but it wasn't that special either.
 
Yet has failed spectacularly to win the Copa America in whatever number of attempts. Why does the Copa get played so randomly anyway?

Failed spectacularly? He has the most assists and MOTM awards in the competition's history and won player of the tournament.

He may not have won it but he's played well individually. It's like saying Ronaldo failed in La Liga because he only won 2 La Ligas titles in 11 years.
 
You seem to be under the illusion that playing the game somehow makes you an expert, and have a very narrow minded view about the "important aspects". Your obsession with dribbling has also clouded your mind to other key factors like runs off the ball, timing, etc.

Just answer this, if it was as clear as you claim that Messi is miles and miles better, how come there are plenty who have played football to a much higher level who agree with my view that Ronaldo is better? Are they all somewhat clueless or they just value different aspects of the game?.

If you even have the slightest clue how bookmaking works, you'd realize that football can be quantified over a long run.

No, I'm not saying I'm an expert because I played the game. I didn't even say that I understand more about football than the average fan. What I'm saying is that you don't understand it. And I'm saying that to you in particular, not exemplarily Peyroteo (who I believe to be biased but who still has a very good understanding of football and makes substantial points) because there's no such substance in your posts. Never. All just superficial stuff you usually read in Facebook discussions.

And no, my mind is not clouded regarding key factors like runs off the ball, timing etc., I know their importance fully well. It's like the Pareto Principle, this stuff makes up 80% of a players quality but the remainding 20% are much harder to realize. Ronaldo's great at making every bit of the 80% count but Messi still has great runs and off the ball movements (especially between the lines, when he enters the box in the defenders' backs and when in combination play - Tiki Taka and possession football is more about off the ball movement than anything else, just read some quotes of Cruyff) while he completely thrashes Ronaldo in skills on the ball.

Ultimately it is a question of preferences. There's no ultimate truth in judging a football player, everyone of us has a little algorithm in his head which weights different aspects of a player's game differently. If your's tells you that Cristiano is the best, then fair enough. But then be consequent in how you weigh these criteria. Because if your algorithm computes that Cristiano is a better player than Messi then there's no way Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer, Cruyff or Laudrup should've ever been regarded as the best in the world at any point of time. If your GOAT list would consist of names like Müller, Romario, Bican, Puskas etc., it would be a different story. But you just use different criteria based on which players you judge.
 
Failed spectacularly? He has the most assists and MOTM awards in the competition's history and won player of the tournament.

He may not have won it but he's played well individually. It's like saying Ronaldo failed in La Liga because he only won 2 La Ligas titles in 11 years.

Brilliant counter-arguement. There’s a lot of repeated shit in this thread, but I’ve not actually seen this.
 
But there's more people who think Messi is better.

Every football forum bar maybe a Real Madrid one will also think Messi is better.

Obviously it's not a 'fact', but thinking Ronaldo is better makes you in the minority.
Thank you, please explain to the Messi brigade.

The majority view is not always right, Brexit being a great example.

Problem is, the minority that think Cristiano is better are other Sporting/Portuguese, or United, Real fans, who would be biased anyway.

Very rarely you see neutral fans saying Cristiano is better.


Which category does Gullit fall into?
Failed spectacularly? He has the most assists and MOTM awards in the competition's history and won player of the tournament.

He may not have won it but he's played well individually. It's like saying Ronaldo failed in La Liga because he only won 2 La Ligas titles in 11 years.
Ronaldo did win La Liga.

I said Messi failed spectacularly to win the Copa America, which he did, he's never won it. I didn't say he's failing spectacularly during the tournaments.
 
The top guys at Fifa, Uefa etc are ruining the big tournaments.

Euros was pathetic and devalued with the format change. A team finishing third in the group stage who then went on to win the tournament was laughable. Winning a single game in 90 minutes. Up there with Chelsea as one of the most underserved winning sides at a big tournament.

The World cup if expanded will be shit.

Copa America changing to two groups is stupid. I get the thinking of a one of extra Copa celebration tournament but this years or next years shouldnt take place. No idea the thinking behind it.
 
Mario Balotelli a few days ago:

If we’re talking statistically, they’re the same. But as someone who played against both, I can say that in my opinion Messi is out of this world, embarrassing. You can never get the better of him.

In terms of quality, Messi is better than everyone. I’m convinced that if you ask a defender if they would rather play against Messi or Ronaldo, they would have no doubts.

Messi and Ronaldo are two phenomena, true, but they’re not the same.
 
No, I'm not saying I'm an expert because I played the game. I didn't even say that I understand more about football than the average fan. What I'm saying is that you don't understand it. And I'm saying that to you in particular, not exemplarily Peyroteo (who I believe to be biased but who still has a very good understanding of football and makes substantial points) because there's no such substance in your posts. Never. All just superficial stuff you usually read in Facebook discussions.

And no, my mind is not clouded regarding key factors like runs off the ball, timing etc., I know their importance fully well. It's like the Pareto Principle, this stuff makes up 80% of a players quality but the remainding 20% are much harder to realize. Ronaldo's great at making every bit of the 80% count but Messi still has great runs and off the ball movements (especially between the lines, when he enters the box in the defenders' backs and when in combination play - Tiki Taka and possession football is more about off the ball movement than anything else, just read some quotes of Cruyff) while he completely thrashes Ronaldo in skills on the ball.

Ultimately it is a question of preferences. There's no ultimate truth in judging a football player, everyone of us has a little algorithm in his head which weights different aspects of a player's game differently. If your's tells you that Cristiano is the best, then fair enough. But then be consequent in how you weigh these criteria. Because if your algorithm computes that Cristiano is a better player than Messi then there's no way Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Beckenbauer, Cruyff or Laudrup should've ever been regarded as the best in the world at any point of time. If your GOAT list would consist of names like Müller, Romario, Bican, Puskas etc., it would be a different story. But you just use different criteria based on which players you judge.
:lol: So you finally understand it's an opinion and not a fact? :lol:

That took long enough...

It must be nice living in your tiny little world where you just judge everything on your feelings, you refuse to even discuss how to quantitatively analyze a football game and go off on how I don't appreciate your way of thinking. :wenger:
 
Mario Balotelli a few days ago:
Seriously? Balotelli? :lol:

bX3E1s_lBgQLq5RGmclz-3g9hllUVsvCz_N-6kM9YAs.gif
 
Thank you, please explain to the Messi brigade.

The majority view is not always right, Brexit being a great example.




Which category does Gullit fall into?

Ronaldo did win La Liga.

I said Messi failed spectacularly to win the Copa America, which he did, he's never won it. I didn't say he's failing spectacularly during the tournaments.


Ruud Gullit is literally the only non-biased, credible voice clearly favouring Ronaldo. There is no one else. No wonder the Ronaldo brigade cling on to him like the violin band clinged on to the Titanic as it went down.

Every other non-biased, credible footballing person either favours Messi or has no public opinion. And there are hundreds of them.
 
You seem to be under the illusion that playing the game somehow makes you an expert, and have a very narrow minded view about the "important aspects". Your obsession with dribbling has also clouded your mind to other key factors like runs off the ball, timing, etc.

Just answer this, if it was as clear as you claim that Messi is miles and miles better, how come there are plenty who have played football to a much higher level who agree with my view that Ronaldo is better? Are they all somewhat clueless or they just value different aspects of the game?.

If you even have the slightest clue how bookmaking works, you'd realize that football can be quantified over a long run.

This is where you get put to the test Cal. Seeing as you said there are plenty, give us 10 names who think Cristiano is better of the two? How many can you even name who have said that Cristiano is the best in history?
It won't take me long to find the same for Leo.
 
:lol: So you finally understand it's an opinion and not a fact? :lol:

That took long enough...

It must be nice living in your tiny little world where you just judge everything on your feelings, you refuse to even discuss how to quantitatively analyze a football game and go off on how I don't appreciate your way of thinking. :wenger:

Erm I never denied that it is about preferences and opinions. I was always just pointing out that your arguments are utter shit. And no, I don't judge by my feelings. Don't know how you come to that conclusion again but as always, I don't expect any kind of explanation from you. Because there is none, you are just spouting out complete nonsense in the hope someone buys that bullshit without questioning. Funny by the way how you - again - dragged the discussion away from actual football. I wrote 200-300 words but you decide to pick out and solely address something that has nothing to do with it. Messi has so many arguments going for him but probably there best there is in this world is that someone as clueless as you thinks Cristiano is better.

But just for the laughter, tell us about your great and profound statistical model to quantitatively analyze football.

Oh, and am I right by the way? Have you ever played football yourself at any point in your life?
 
According to you it is, to me Ronaldo being successful in 3 countries and Internationally counts for something. His leadership qualities matter to me, for you it clearly don’t, fair enough that’s your choice. I find that attitude narrow minded, but I respect it, I really don’t see the problem.

The problem I do have is when people say “Messi could do it too, and do it better”, that’s a strawman argument, and just your opinion. I’m not saying he couldn’t, but the fact Ronaldo has is a pro for him, I’m not saying it’s a negative for Messi.

So you think it's narrow-minded to not put that much stock in CR7 winning Serie A with Juventus, a team that has won it 7 times the years prior and would have won it without him as well? He's not even Serie A's top scorer after taking over PK and FK duties there as well. I think it's silly to use that in any form for an argument between the two, but to each his own. I think the main argument in favor of CR7 is his ridiculous record in knock-out stages of the CL, which he will probably not lose to Messi when all is said and done and I can only see maybe Mbappe as being capable of breaking it towards the latter stages of his career.

I do agree on one thing though, I think it's silly to assume Messi would do better somewhere else, and it's an irrelevant argument because it's based purely on speculation.
 
To each their own I guess, but I just rewatched all Ronaldo contacts against Atletico and how anyone can think this was a better performance than Messi's against Liverpool is beyond me. Ronaldo had some decent dribbles and retained the ball well, but most of that happened in areas that posed no particular danger and the dribbles he had usually lead to possession losses (blocked crosses etc.). He didn't create chances for his team mates either apart from one cross that found the head of a Juve player in the box.

Messi on the other hand scored two, one of those an incredible free kick, one a tap in after Suarez hit the crossbar through a chance Messi created himself, set up three to four clear cut chances through good to great plays (Vidal, Suarez, Dembele, Coutinho [who was marginally offside, still great dribble and pass]), initiated many attacks (through one of his quick turns, switches of play, one twos..) and retained possession/drew fouls under much pressure of the opponent. Ronaldo wasn't bad or anything apart from his goals, in fact that was probably the best match I've seen from him in the last 4-5 years in the CL, at least in terms of overall play, but it wasn't that special either.

I think you quoted the wrong post, I agree Messi’s performance was better
 


Which category does Gullit fall into?

He’s a minority I think. Not much common idea, of course everyone can stick to his opinion. Cristiano has areas where he edges Messi.

The random fan, as in this thread, I feel is valid. Non many non biased opinions in Cristiano’s favor.
 
This is where you get put to the test Cal. Seeing as you said there are plenty, give us 10 names who think Cristiano is better of the two? How many can you even name who have said that Cristiano is the best in history?
It won't take me long to find the same for Leo.
There are plenty who seem to say whatever they want at whatever time they want.

Pele has certainly said one of them is the best at various different times.

Anyway, are you resorting to majority = right? Do you support Brexit?
 
Erm I never denied that it is about preferences and opinions. I was always just pointing out that your arguments are utter shit. And no, I don't judge by my feelings. Don't know how you come to that conclusion again but as always, I don't expect any kind of explanation from you. Because there is none, you are just spouting out complete nonsense in the hope someone buys that bullshit without questioning. Funny by the way how you - again - dragged the discussion away from actual football. I wrote 200-300 words but you decide to pick out and solely address something that has nothing to do with it. Messi has so many arguments going for him but probably there best there is in this world is that someone as clueless as you thinks Cristiano is better.

But just for the laughter, tell us about your great and profound statistical model to quantitatively analyze football.

Oh, and am I right by the way? Have you ever played football yourself at any point in your life?
The so called "eye test" is basically just feelings, you lot are so simple minded that you think resorting to petty insults is the way to go. :wenger:

There's been plenty of Messi brigade down the years and you're the only one who is this unique combination of cluelessness and holier-than-thou attitude.
 
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