Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Cal? said:
15/16 Real Madrid 3-0 Wolfsburg
16/17 Real Madrid 3-0 Atletico Madrid
17/18 Juventus 0-3 Real Madrid
13/14 Bayern Munich 0-4 Real Madrid
18/19 Juventus 3-0 Atletico Madrid
08/09 Arsenal 1-3 Manchester United

The CL alone where Messi has basically never matched any of the above Ronaldo performances.

Ronaldo scored a hat-trick against Sweden in the playoff to qualify for the WC, or did you conveniently forget that?

Ronaldo was the best player by far when he led Real Madrid to the CL 3-peat, remember even retaining it was thought to be nigh on impossible? Messi himself has tried many many times with better team mates and couldn't do it.
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Messi's performances in these matches are better than Ronaldo's in the ones you mentioned

09/10 Barcelona 4-1 Arsenal
10/11 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United
10/11 Real Madrid 0-2 Barcelona
12/13 Barcelona 4-0 Milan
14/15 Barcelona 3-0 Bayern
17/18 Barcelona 3-0 Chelsea
18/19 Barcelona 3-0 Liverpool


Also, how the feck is that Bayern game such a legendary performance from him? Ramos settled the tie early on and then Ronaldo only turned up after Bayern needed 4 unanswered goals.
 
Henry said:
He was by far the best player? We can just take a simple breakdown of stats to show that is not true by any means.

2015/2016 La liga + CL:

Messi: 32 goals, 17 assists. (Messi was injured a lot this season and missed like 13 games IIRC)
Ronaldo: 51 goals, 15 assists.

2016/2017 La liga + CL:

Messi: 48 goals, 11 assists.
Ronaldo 37 goals, 12 assists.

2017/2018 La liga + CL:

Messi: 40 goals, 14 assists
Ronaldo 41 goals, 7 assists.

He has worse individual performance from a stats perspective in 2/3 seasons and only a better one in the season Messi was injured a lot. Not sure how you can with a straight face say he was "By far" the better player.

The thing with you, Cal, is that you're so dogmatic and unreasonably biased. Your dislike for Messi is so clear with demeaning comments such as "crying and quitting" and hyperbolic statements as "The 2nd best player in the world occasionally showing his worth in the CL after 3 years of doing feck-all. :D"

You decide what qualifies as better based on whatever Ronaldo does better on. If Messi and Ronaldo swapped achievements and stats these last 3 years and Messi won 3x CLs in a row, you'd argue that CL is a knockout competition with a lot of luck involved (which it is) and Ronaldo is clearly the superior player for his domestic record of 3 Copas, better individual stats and 2 league titles.

But because you're so dogmatic in your worship for Ronaldo, CL is now the one deciding factor for what qualifies as the best player. I'll grant you that Ronaldo has had better CL performances these last 3 years, but you act as if Ronaldo himself was the one who dragged a rugged and awful Real to every CL title. Ronaldo had plenty of games where he wasn't good but where Real Madrid pulled through as a team.

Finally, honestly embarrassing that you think 2 headers and a penalty is better than what Messi produced vs Bayern in 2014/2015 or what he did yesterday.
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I specifically said CL, I'm not sure what your point is regarding the Liga+CL stats. Do you want me to list the CL scoring stats those 3 seasons? :lol:

Also, you go on and on about how Messi was injured for parts of 15/16 and conveniently leaves out the fact Ronaldo actually missed more game in 16/17? Never let the facts get in the way...

Messi did cry and quit after the Copa debacle where his country without him soundly beat Chile, but he shows up for the final to lose the game for them. It's also true that for their standards, Messi did go missing for 3 years in the CL, there's go glossing over that.

I've never denied Ronaldo needed a team that could support him to win the CL (his failure this season is further proof), but it's the Messi brigade who pretend he doesn't need any help winning the CL.

2006 - he didn't even need to play from the QF onwards
2009 - Ovebro (or Iniesta) got them to the final
2011 - Alves getting Pepe sent off and he scored that goal, probably the year he came closest to the last 3 season Ronaldo-level CL domination
2015 - Neymar and Suarez scored most the goals, Messi himself only scored in 1 game out of 7 in the knockout stage.

It's almost laughable if you think Messi vs Liverpool was a better performance than Ronaldo basically singled-handedly turning the tie against Atletico.
 
Messi is more enjoyable to watch and a better all round footballer. I voted for him. On the other hand, Ronaldo is the never say never kind of guy and is more impressive in the latter stages of tournaments.
 
InLevyITrust said:
It’s certainly more than doing it in one, no matter how you wish to cut it.
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Cal? said:
I specifically said CL, I'm not sure what your point is regarding the Liga+CL stats. Do you want me to list the CL scoring stats those 3 seasons? :lol:

Also, you go on and on about how Messi was injured for parts of 15/16 and conveniently leaves out the fact Ronaldo actually missed more game in 16/17? Never let the facts get in the way...

Messi did cry and quit after the Copa debacle where his country without him soundly beat Chile, but he shows up for the final to lose the game for them. It's also true that for their standards, Messi did go missing for 3 years in the CL, there's go glossing over that.

I've never denied Ronaldo needed a team that could support him to win the CL (his failure this season is further proof), but it's the Messi brigade who pretend he doesn't need any help winning the CL.

2006 - he didn't even need to play from the QF onwards
2009 - Ovebro (or Iniesta) got them to the final
2011 - Alves getting Pepe sent off and he scored that goal, probably the year he came closest to the last 3 season Ronaldo-level CL domination
2015 - Neymar and Suarez scored most the goals, Messi himself only scored in 1 game out of 7 in the knockout stage.

It's almost laughable if you think Messi vs Liverpool was a better performance than Ronaldo basically singled-handedly turning the tie against Atletico.
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No it’s not, look at how many chances Messi created against Liverpool as oppose to Ronaldo.

Messi’s was definitely better than ronaldo against Atletico. Messi should had another two assists to go with two goals had Dembele not inexplicably flopped on those final shots.

Ajax were worried about Ronaldo in the box, Liverpool were worried about Messi all over the pitch.

And also, Liverpool >>>> Atletico

Messi did it against a significantly stronger team. This is the weakest team Atletico has had since 2013.
 
VanKenny said:
Wolfsburg? Come on. I only mentioned semifinal and final games, and you bring up Wolfsburg. Then im going to bring up the half a dozen times Messi "molested" Arsenal, when he taught City a football lesson, Chelsea, Bayern in 2008(4 goals), etc.

And btw, i never said CR7 was a CL choker and wasnt a big game player. I was just laughing at how some people could consider CR7 to be the best player on big games when clearly he wasnt, as i clearly demonstrated in the examples i posted above.

CR7 has never came close to the level Messi performed in the matches i posted above. CR7 hasnt never come close to Messi vs Bayern 2015 or Messi vs Madrid 2011, vs United 2011. just not even close. All those are semis or finals. Lets not even talk about all the final and semifinals CR7 has basically been a passenger, which is pretty much all of them bar one or two.

Just answer this: Who has played better on the semifinals and finals of the CL?
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You did include "United 2 weeks ago" in your list, so it's not strictly SF & Final. Are you going to pretend Arsenal in the 10s are even remotely close to any of the opponents I listed except Wolfsburg?

Ronaldo vs Bayern in 2014 was better than Messi in 2015, the hat-trick against Atletico in 17 SF? The final that very same season?

The reason Messi hasn't played nearly as many SF/F as Ronaldo is simple, he goes missing in the QF quite often, in fact, until United, he hasn't scored a single QF goal for 6 years!
 
mdvmia said:
Messi's performances in these matches are better than Ronaldo's in the ones you mentioned

09/10 Barcelona 4-1 Arsenal
10/11 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United
10/11 Real Madrid 0-2 Barcelona
12/13 Barcelona 4-0 Milan
14/15 Barcelona 3-0 Bayern
17/18 Barcelona 3-0 Chelsea
18/19 Barcelona 3-0 Liverpool

Also, how the feck is that Bayern game such a legendary performance from him? Ramos settled the tie early on and then Ronaldo only turned up after Bayern needed 4 unanswered goals.
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There's no point debating this, for Messi fans, any game he doesn't choke like Roma he was the MOTM and better than games where Ronaldo scored a hat-trick in. :wenger:

There's a reason why Ronaldo's record in the CL knockout stage is so much better than Messi's
 
Daysleeper said:
No it’s not, look at how many chances Messi created against Liverpool as oppose to Ronaldo.

Messi’s was definitely better than ronaldo against Atletico. Messi should had another two assists to go with two goals had Dembele not inexplicably flopped on those final shots.

Ajax were worried about Ronaldo in the box, Liverpool were worried about Messi all over the pitch.

And also, Liverpool >>>> Atletico

Messi did it against a significantly stronger team. This is the weakest team Atletico has had since 2013.
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We're back to the incompetence of his team mates again? Ronaldo would have been playing against Spurs if it wasn't for his team mates making basic defensive mistakes after he gave them the lead.

Now the 2nd placed English team is >>>> the 2nd placed Spanish team? The same side who haven't lost a CL knockout stage game to any team other than Ronaldo-led Real Madrid for years? Incidently the very same team who managed to knock out the Messi-led Barca on more than one occasion?
 
I wish I could vote for Ronaldo. It seems just like yesterday that came on for us against Bolton. And the screamer on Almunia. The CL trophy lift.

But in all honesty I had to vote for Messi, who without any serious question now is the GOAT.
 
Cal? said:
There's no point debating this, for Messi fans, any game he doesn't choke like Roma he was the MOTM and better than games where Ronaldo scored a hat-trick in. :wenger:

There's a reason why Ronaldo's record in the CL knockout stage is so much better than Messi's
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His goal record. You do realize that there's more to a football game than the final contact before the ball passes the line, don't you?

But who am I telling this. By now I'm fully convinced you watch football games like I watch the superbowl. No idea what's actually happening on the pitch unless someone scores.
 
Zehner said:
His goal record. You do realize that there's more to a football game than the final contact before the ball passes the line, don't you?

But who am I telling this. By now I'm fully convinced you watch football games like I watch the superbowl. No idea what's actually happening on the pitch unless someone scores.
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I'm getting very fed up with your attitude, I offer you a chance to prove you know football so well by putting your money where your mouth is and you refuse.

Then you act all holier than thou with you narrow minded views on football. :wenger:

Prove yourself or shut up about how you know football so well. :smirk:
 
Zehner said:
His goal record. You do realize that there's more to a football game than the final contact before the ball passes the line, don't you?

But who am I telling this. By now I'm fully convinced you watch football games like I watch the superbowl. No idea what's actually happening on the pitch unless someone scores.
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Furthermore, considering their comparable record in other competitions, are you suggesting Messi decides NOT to score as many in the CL knockout stage? :lol:
 
Cal? said:
15/16 Real Madrid 3-0 Wolfsburg
16/17 Real Madrid 3-0 Atletico Madrid
17/18 Juventus 0-3 Real Madrid
13/14 Bayern Munich 0-4 Real Madrid
18/19 Juventus 3-0 Atletico Madrid
08/09 Arsenal 1-3 Manchester United

The CL alone where Messi has basically never matched any of the above Ronaldo performances.
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Absolutely delusional.

Ronaldo was not even the most decisive player on the pitch against Bayern in 2014. That was comfortably Ramos, who not only scored the two most important goals, but was also an absolute wall in defense.

mdvmia said:
09/10 Barcelona 4-1 Arsenal
10/11 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United
10/11 Real Madrid 0-2 Barcelona
12/13 Barcelona 4-0 Milan
14/15 Barcelona 3-0 Bayern
17/18 Barcelona 3-0 Chelsea
18/19 Barcelona 3-0 Liverpool
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Good list, I would also add the following:

08/09 Barcelona 2-0 Manchester United
11/12 Barcelona 7-1 Bayer Leverkusen
 
Cal? said:
I'm getting very fed up with your attitude, I offer you a chance to prove you know football so well by putting your money where your mouth is and you refuse.

Then you act all holier than thou with you narrow minded views on football. :wenger:

Prove yourself or shut up about how you know football so well. :smirk:
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Whatever mate, I won't shut up simply because I'm not wiling to spend my time on some betting competition with you just to prove a point. And I don't need that to see that you've got no clue what you're talking about.

Cal? said:
Furthermore, considering their comparable record in other competitions, are you suggesting Messi decides NOT to score as many in the CL knockout stage? :lol:
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No, I don't. What's the thought process behind that conclusion? I'm just saying that Messi's performances were better than Cristiano's overall although he scored less.
 
Zehner said:
Whatever mate, I won't shut up simply because I'm not wiling to spend my time on some betting competition with you just to prove a point. And I don't need that to see that you've got no clue what you're talking about.

No, I don't. What's the thought process behind that conclusion? I'm just saying that Messi's performances were better than Cristiano's overall although he scored less.
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Whether you know football well can easily be proven by betting on it. I do rather well myself and you clearly lack the ability to do so. :lol:

They have a comparable record in most competitions, Ronaldo has a much better record in CL knockout stage, the most obvious conclusion is that Messi isn't very good at CL knockout stage. But as you insist he's supposedly better, do please explain why his CL knockout stage record is somewhat lacking.
 
Cal? said:
Whether you know football well can easily be proven by betting on it.
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No, not really.

Cal? said:
I do rather well myself and you clearly lack the ability to do so. :lol:
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Congratulations, but if that's the case it just proves what I've just stated above :)


Cal? said:
They have a comparable record in most competitions, Ronaldo has a much better record in CL knockout stage, the most obvious conclusion is that Messi isn't very good at CL knockout stage. But as you insist he's supposedly better, do please explain why his CL knockout stage record is somewhat lacking.
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That is because Messi can have better games than Ronaldo even if the former scores zero and the latter scores three. Why he scored less than he usual does? Don't know, if I were to guess then I'd say against top teams, he is busy doing stuff on areas of the pitch where he's less likely to score. Or in other words, the areas in which you rarely occupied by Ronaldo. Then I remember that his overall record against top teams is at least equal to Ronaldo's if not better so yeah, don't know. All I know is that Cristiano's arguably best games in the KO rounds of the CL, like his Juve and Bayern ones, didn't impress me nearly as much as Messi's best have done while his bottom level is far lower.
 
Cal? said:
I specifically said CL, I'm not sure what your point is regarding the Liga+CL stats. Do you want me to list the CL scoring stats those 3 seasons? :lol:

Also, you go on and on about how Messi was injured for parts of 15/16 and conveniently leaves out the fact Ronaldo actually missed more game in 16/17? Never let the facts get in the way...

Messi did cry and quit after the Copa debacle where his country without him soundly beat Chile, but he shows up for the final to lose the game for them. It's also true that for their standards, Messi did go missing for 3 years in the CL, there's go glossing over that.

I've never denied Ronaldo needed a team that could support him to win the CL (his failure this season is further proof), but it's the Messi brigade who pretend he doesn't need any help winning the CL.

2006 - he didn't even need to play from the QF onwards
2009 - Ovebro (or Iniesta) got them to the final
2011 - Alves getting Pepe sent off and he scored that goal, probably the year he came closest to the last 3 season Ronaldo-level CL domination
2015 - Neymar and Suarez scored most the goals, Messi himself only scored in 1 game out of 7 in the knockout stage.

It's almost laughable if you think Messi vs Liverpool was a better performance than Ronaldo basically singled-handedly turning the tie against Atletico.
Click to expand...

You said "Ronaldo best player by far when he lead Real Madrid to the CL 3-peat", responding to a post talking about la liga, world cup etc so pretty sure you didn't mean Ronaldo was the best player by far in the CL, but in general terms.

Either way, I conceded the Ronaldo has had a better CL performance these last 3 years, my point with bringing up La Liga is because best player is not determined by CL performance, there are other competitions in football.

Yeah, I brought up Messi's injuries in 15/16 because it caused a big outlier in amount of matches he missed (13 games). You bring up 2016/2017 where Ronaldo played 3 games less than Messi in La liga (in terms of minutes) but played more overall in the season as if they somehow are equivalent.

I've yet to see any "Messi brigade" try to claim Messi wins it on his own. Both Real Madrid and Barcelona are top teams filled with quality and you don't win CL or any competition in football on your own. The debate I've seen is who does more for his team or which team is more reliant on the player.

You keep ranting about CL domination by Ronaldo, and again, I concede he has performed better in the CL. But the point is, in the context of the discussion of who is best player, there are other competitions to consider (and I don't even think basing a player's ability on his trophy count to be logical to begin with). And as I mentioned in my last post, you're so dogmatic in your worship of Ronaldo that the CL has become the one deciding factor according to you because it is the one factor where Ronaldo has a clear advantage.

Anyway, your post listing the CL performances of Ronaldo and saying Messi doesn't match any of those performances is on such a level of sheer bias and fanboyism (or just a poor understanding of football in general) that is shows any discussion with you really is pointless. Respond to this post if you want but personally I am done. Cheers.
 
Zehner said:
No, not really.

Congratulations, but if that's the case it just proves what I've just stated above :)

That is because Messi can have better games than Ronaldo even if the former scores zero and the latter scores three. Why he scored less than he usual does? Don't know, if I were to guess then I'd say against top teams, he is busy doing stuff on areas of the pitch where he's less likely to score. Or in other words, the areas in which you rarely occupied by Ronaldo. Then I remember that his overall record against top teams is at least equal to Ronaldo's if not better so yeah, don't know. All I know is that Cristiano's arguably best games in the KO rounds of the CL, like his Juve and Bayern ones, didn't impress me nearly as much as Messi's best have done while his bottom level is far lower.
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Betting on it is the best way to prove if you know something, football, stocks, properties, ultimately it's all the same.

Anyway, not surprised regarding the bolded part at all. Any performance where he wasn't completely awful (Roma away), you guys try to claim he's the best player on the pitch. Didn't some of you try to claim he had a great game at OT last month? :wenger:
 
Re-opening the poll has re-energised the madness of this thread.

Put a time limit on it...please!!!
 
If you vote Ronaldo in this poll you sort of imply that he’s the best player of all time, which seems insane to me but each to their own.
 
Henry said:
You said "Ronaldo best player by far when he lead Real Madrid to the CL 3-peat", responding to a post talking about la liga, world cup etc so pretty sure you didn't mean Ronaldo was the best player by far in the CL, but in general terms.

Either way, I conceded the Ronaldo has had a better CL performance these last 3 years, my point with bringing up La Liga is because best player is not determined by CL performance, there are other competitions in football.

Yeah, I brought up Messi's injuries in 15/16 because it caused a big outlier in amount of matches he missed (13 games). You bring up 2016/2017 where Ronaldo played 3 games less than Messi in La liga (in terms of minutes) but played more overall in the season as if they somehow are equivalent.

I've yet to see any "Messi brigade" try to claim Messi wins it on his own. Both Real Madrid and Barcelona are top teams filled with quality and you don't win CL or any competition in football on your own. The debate I've seen is who does more for his team or which team is more reliant on the player.

You keep ranting about CL domination by Ronaldo, and again, I concede he has performed better in the CL. But the point is, in the context of the discussion of who is best player, there are other competitions to consider (and I don't even think basing a player's ability on his trophy count to be logical to begin with). And as I mentioned in my last post, you're so dogmatic in your worship of Ronaldo that the CL has become the one deciding factor according to you because it is the one factor where Ronaldo has a clear advantage.

Anyway, your post listing the CL performances of Ronaldo and saying Messi doesn't match any of those performances is on such a level of sheer bias and fanboyism (or just a poor understanding of football in general) that is shows any discussion with you really is pointless. Respond to this post if you want but personally I am done. Cheers.
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I appreciate the fact that Messi has dominated La Liga much more, but the CL is the bigger competition and I won't change my mind if you lot go on to win it.

As for performances, there's no point debating it, clearly people appreciate different things. For me, Ronaldo v Atletico was a much better performance than Messi v Liverpool, because of the pressure of it all and achieving exactly what he needed to do. I've hardly ever seen Messi pull it out of the bag for Barca when the going gets tough, he has many games where he's dominated from the start, but you very rarely see he produce something to turn the tie on its head.
 
Rajma said:
If you vote Ronaldo in this poll you sort of imply that he’s the best player of all time, which seems insane to me but each to their own.
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Calling it insane might be over-egging it a bit, but yeah...essentially you're right.
 
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Cal? said:
Betting on it is the best way to prove if you know something, football, stocks, properties, ultimately it's all the same.
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No. I can be a great economist, that won't make be a great trader. Football bets are even worse because there's so much luck involved and the best strategy is usually not based on football knowledge. I know people that made won 10k in a month by betting on sports that aren't even broadcasted in my country. And even more so, how am I supposed to bet on EPL games when I watch maybe 10 games in the whole year? Nowadays I only watch games of my own club and international games that I am interested in.

Cal? said:
Anyway, not surprised regarding the bolded part at all. Any performance where he wasn't completely awful (Roma away), you guys try to claim he's the best player on the pitch. Didn't some of you try to claim he had a great game at OT last month? :wenger:
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Don't know if some did, but I wasn't one of them. That was one of the dullest performances I've seen from him since years. Of course you'd even said that if he had dribbled like his prime, only without scoring. As I said, you are simply completely clueless if you ask me. You are making arguments someone who understands how football is played would be too ashamed to make. And no, I don't want to imply that the Barca way is the true way of playing football, I acknowledge that there are many other ways to be successful that some may even find easier on the eye. But I haven't read anything from you that would imply that you even understand the basics of football.
 
Zehner said:
No. I can be a great economist, that won't make be a great trader. Football bets are even worse because there's so much luck involved and the best strategy is usually not based on football knowledge. I know people that made won 10k in a month by betting on sports that aren't even broadcasted in my country. And even more so, how am I supposed to bet on EPL games when I watch maybe 10 games in the whole year? Nowadays I only watch games of my own club and international games that I am interested in.
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That is exactly the issue here, you watch some games and decide based on nothing more than your subjective feeling about the match what constitutes a better performance.

Zehner said:
Don't know if some did, but I wasn't one of them. That was one of the dullest performances I've seen from him since years. Of course you'd even said that if he had dribbled like his prime, only without scoring. As I said, you are simply completely clueless if you ask me. You are making arguments someone who understands how football is played would be too ashamed to make. And no, I don't want to imply that the Barca way is the true way of playing football, I acknowledge that there are many other ways to be successful that some may even find easier on the eye. But I haven't read anything from you that would imply that you even understand the basics of football.
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I also think you're completely clueless, so that's something we can agree on. :D

Football, like most things in life, can be quantitatively broken down to derive maximum value in the market.
 
Cal? said:
We're back to the incompetence of his team mates again? Ronaldo would have been playing against Spurs if it wasn't for his team mates making basic defensive mistakes after he gave them the lead.

Now the 2nd placed English team is >>>> the 2nd placed Spanish team? The same side who haven't lost a CL knockout stage game to any team other than Ronaldo-led Real Madrid for years? Incidently the very same team who managed to knock out the Messi-led Barca on more than one occasion?
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Hahaha imagine comparing this year’s Atletico to the ones from 2014 and 2016 who went to the UCL

I can just as easily say Ronaldo’s teammates failing him? The ones who went to 2 UCL finals in the last 4 years? They weren’t good enough?

See what I did there? Not one person on the world would argue that a team on a record pace run in Liverpool are worse than Atletico

Nobody. Hell, even Real Madrid beat Atletico 3-1 this season alone.
 
Daysleeper said:
Hahaha imagine comparing this year’s Atletico to the ones from 2014 and 2016 who went to the UCL

I can just as easily say Ronaldo’s teammates failing him? The ones who went to 2 UCL finals in the last 4 years? They weren’t good enough?

See what I did there? Not one person on the world would argue that a team on a record pace run in Liverpool are worse than Atletico

Nobody. Hell, even Real Madrid beat Atletico 3-1 this season alone.
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The same Atletico who are 2nd in La Liga

How many of the Juve side in the final 2015 are still there?

GK 1 Italy Gianluigi Buffon (c)
RB 26 Switzerland Stephan Lichtsteiner
CB 15 Italy Andrea Barzagli
CB 19 Italy Leonardo Bonucci
LB 33 France Patrice Evra Substituted off 89'
DM 21 Italy Andrea Pirlo
RM 8 Italy Claudio Marchisio
LM 6 France Paul Pogba Yellow card 41'
AM 23 Chile Arturo Vidal Yellow card 11' Substituted off 79'
CF 10 Argentina Carlos Tevez
CF 9 Spain Álvaro Morata

2017:
GK 1 Italy Gianluigi Buffon (c)
CB 15 Italy Andrea Barzagli Substituted off 66'
CB 19 Italy Leonardo Bonucci
CB 3 Italy Giorgio Chiellini
RM 23 Brazil Dani Alves
CM 5 Bosnia and Herzegovina Miralem Pjanić Yellow card 66' Substituted off 71'
CM 6 Germany Sami Khedira
LM 12 Brazil Alex Sandro Yellow card 70'
AM 21 Argentina Paulo Dybala Yellow card 12' Substituted off 78'
CF 9 Argentina Gonzalo Higuaín
CF 17 Croatia Mario Mandžukić

Liverpool lost to Crvena Zvezda, your point is?

The point isn't Atletico v Liverpool anyway, it's that Ronaldo v AM was a better performance than Messi v Liverpool
 
All Ronaldos games have been the same since 3 to 4 years from now, he is having a bad game literally where he is not even remotely the best player on the pitch but then a moment of briliance by a teammate who creates a great ocassion and sets him up a thorugh ball for a tap in comes and then all of a sudden Ronaldo single handedly destroyed his opponent, its hillarious really..

They turn what was a bad game literally to a magnificent one because he tapped a ball in, i mean this is not a realistc barometer in which we can proove who played better individually on the pitch and this is mostly done in the majority of his games where he is not the best on the pitch just because he tapped a ball.

Just to give an example in the Juventus vs Atletico game Ronaldo played better than in most games and scored a hat trick true, but it is also true that he was not juventus best player on the pitch, it was Federico Bernardeschi! without this guy there is no penalty and no first goal! But it wasnt only those 2 actions he was just juventus best dribbler, assiter, the best influencer on the pitch, the one who did the most damage with the ball on his feet.

So the best way in my opinion to recognize who the best player is, is by WATCHING them play in the clasico heads up, Analyze every touch they make during the game and see for yourself whose end product is better, i think it is the best representation of how both of them handle themselves on the pitch! you see Messi everywhere when his team is attacking, he is creating, dribbling, assisting, playing one twos, nutmegging, going past players and even scoring, he has far way more reponsibilities on the pitch and on the other hand there is ronaldo without the ball just waiting for a teammate to set him up for him to score, hes only responsibility is to be free to receive by outpacing or outjumping a rival..

Comparing them is delusional.
 
Rajma said:
If you vote Ronaldo in this poll you sort of imply that he’s the best player of all time, which seems insane to me but each to their own.
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Not really, because I don't think Messi or Ronaldo is the best player of all time. For me, the best I have seen play is Maradona.

I think Messi needs more of a team around him that can compliment what he is all about, where as Ronaldo has proven it in the most physical league in the world, and for multiple years. I am not sure Messi would have the same impact in the premier league. He may, we'll never know, but for me, this puts Ronaldo ahead slightly.
 
Steven-UK said:
Not really, because I don't think Messi or Ronaldo is the best player of all time. For me, the best I have seen play is Maradona.

I think Messi needs more of a team around him that can compliment what he is all about, where as Ronaldo has proven it in the most physical league in the world, and for multiple years. I am not sure Messi would have the same impact in the premier league. He may, we'll never know, but for me, this puts Ronaldo ahead slightly.
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It's definitely implied that he's a contender for it.
 
Funny how “clutch” Cristiano has been less influential in CL semis and finals than “bottler” Messi.
 
Thehiddenpassenger07 said:
All Ronaldos games have been the same since 3 to 4 years from now, he is having a bad game literally where he is not even remotely the best player on the pitch but then a moment of briliance by a teammate who creates a great ocassion and sets him up a thorugh ball for a tap in comes and then all of a sudden Ronaldo single handedly destroyed his opponent, its hillarious really..

They turn what was a bad game literally to a magnificent one because he tapped a ball in, i mean this is not a realistc barometer in which we can proove who played better individually on the pitch and this is mostly done in the majority of his games where he is not the best on the pitch just because he tapped a ball.

Just to give an example in the Juventus vs Atletico game Ronaldo played better than in most games and scored a hat trick true, but it is also true that he was not juventus best player on the pitch, it was Federico Bernardeschi! without this guy there is no penalty and no first goal! But it wasnt only those 2 actions he was just juventus best dribbler, assiter, the best influencer on the pitch, the one who did the most damage with the ball on his feet.

So the best way in my opinion to recognize who the best player is, is by WATCHING them play in the clasico heads up, Analyze every touch they make during the game and see for yourself whose end product is better, i think it is the best representation of how both of them handle themselves on the pitch! you see Messi everywhere when his team is attacking, he is creating, dribbling, assisting, playing one twos, nutmegging, going past players and even scoring, he has far way more reponsibilities on the pitch and on the other hand there is ronaldo without the ball just waiting for a teammate to set him up for him to score, hes only responsibility is to be free to receive by outpacing or outjumping a rival..

Comparing them is delusional.
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@Thehiddenpassenger07 meet @Cal?

@Cal? meet @Thehiddenpassenger07
 
To claim that Ronaldo is better than Messi is like claiming that Gerd Muller was better than Maradona.

Actually it’s even more idiotic, because at least Muller scored more goals than Maradona. Ronaldo isn’t even decisively better than Messi at the one thing he’s great at.
 
Cal? said:
That is exactly the issue here, you watch some games and decide based on nothing more than your subjective feeling about the match what constitutes a better performance.
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No, it doesn't. I've played football my whole life, I used to watch it a lot more when I was younger and even spent much time reading in-depth tactical blogs and some coaching stuff. I've tried so many times to have a somewhat substantial discussion with you but if anyone delivers you an argument that even requires a slight understanding of football you back out and counter with an argument like "oh wow the Messi brigade boys hyping up dribbles so much again. If that's so important why has Ronaldo scored more in the KO stages of the CL?"
It's plain and simple, as soon as there's a debate that regards more complex concepts of the sports, like how dribblings and intelligent/progressive passes create space, superiority or retain possession, you can't participate any longer and try to ridicule the argument with romanticism or small mindedness or whatever.

See, in many TV broadcasts there are always these kind of situations when an attack is taking place and some smart ass director thinks that a close-up of the player is a spectacular view and thus the right thing to do. You immediately see which people know football because those that do are annoyed af because they can't see the other players' movements and thus can't know what's about to happen next. If the player made a mistake by not playing, if he should've searched the 1 on 1, if should've shot and so forth.

Those who don't have a clue are okay with it because they simply don't pay attention to those things. I'm completely sure in which camp you belong. You confirmed so often that you don't understand the importance of dribbles and passes unleass they immediately lead to a goal. Heck you didn't even acknowledge Messi's run before the 2:0. You don't even understand that this goal wouldn't have happened without him causing complete chaos since four Liverpool players tightly around him couldn't take the ball away from him in a controlled manner. And this was one of his unimpressive dribbles in that match, it could've easily happened even earlier or after one of his defense splitting passes (which are often only possible because he created the space and the lane necessary for this pass through dribbling past 2-3 players beforehand). As I said, nothing you post implies that you recognize and understand these things, so why on earth should I think that you have even the slightest clue?

What you don't understand is that for people who actually know the sport the things that happen before the goal are often if not to say usually more impressive than the goal itself. And this is because breaking defenses is the most difficult aspect of playing football and more often than not the one that scores the goal is only perfecting what was already a series of 3-4 great plays before that.


Cal? said:
I also think you're completely clueless
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No you don't. You just come up with this as some strange "revenge" thing, just like you always do when you don't like someone's argument.

And no, football can't be quantified, especially not things like interdependencies between playing styles, day form and so forth. At least not yet. That is at least if you haven't developed a statistical model for that purpose which functions better than all the most advanced comparable tools (xG, packing rate and all this stuff that usually has Messi up front by the way, but probably they are also simply a part of the Messi brigade). In this case, I'd recommend you found a company for that, pretty sure you can make a fortune with that :)
 
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