Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Zehner]

Of course not

As to the rest of the post: Cristiano never had teammates as good and talented as the ones you mentioned playing with Messi

And i disagree strongly about him not clicking with Benzema or forcing him to sacrifice his own goals for him. Benzema was never a great goalscorer, too streaky. That has nothing to do with Cristiano

Benzema was quite a good goal scorer with amazing finishing when he joined Madrid. It's just logical that a striker's numbers go down when he plays along Ronaldo since Cris demands those spaces in the box strikers usually demand for themselves. Can't imagine him working out with someone like Lewandowski, Suarez or Kane. Of course they could help him with their great linkup play but it would be a one sided partnership.

That's why Messi's goal stats are so special IMO. You can play him next to a top striker and he'll score his goals on top of that because he rarely scores typical striker goals.

 

[giorno]

Benzema was quite a good goal scorer with amazing finishing when he joined Madrid. It's just logical that a striker's numbers go down when he plays along Ronaldo since Cris demands those spaces in the box strikers usually demand for themselves. Can't imagine him working out with someone like Lewandowski, Suarez or Kane. Of course they could help him with their great linkup play but it would be a one sided partnership.

That's why Messi's goal stats are so special IMO. You can play him next to a top striker and he'll score his goals on top of that because he rarely scores typical striker goals.

Benzema is and always was a streaky player. He could go 2 months scoring in every game and then another 2 where he can't hit a barn door from 3 yards out. He's never been a great goalscorer. His number for us have been more or less in line with his number for OL or France

As for Messi allowing other strikers to score a lot, funny how that works: the only strikers to actually score a lot of goals next to him have been Eto'o(36 to Messi's 38), Neymar and Suarez

You'd almost think that has less to do with Messi and more to do with Neymar and Suarez being the 3rd and 4th best players in the world...

 

[Cal?]

Benzema is and always was a streaky player. He could go 2 months scoring in every game and then another 2 where he can't hit a barn door from 3 yards out. He's never been a great goalscorer. His number for us have been more or less in line with his number for OL or France

As for Messi allowing other strikers to score a lot, funny how that works: the only strikers to actually score a lot of goals next to him have been Eto'o(36 to Messi's 38), Neymar and Suarez

You'd almost think that has less to do with Messi and more to do with Neymar and Suarez being the 3rd and 4th best players in the world...

I wonder what Zlatan makes of that theory.

 

[Vadim]

Why does one player have to be better than the other?

 

[Saffron]

What do you base that assumption on?

Xavi himself, among others

Such is Xavi's respect for Messi's abilities, he believes he could even carve out a role in any other area of the park.

"I think that he would be able to play wherever he wants on the park," he added.

Not sure if you’re trolling or if you’re genuinely not aware of Messi’s amazing versatility. The only reason he doesn’t get 73 goals every season is because that would be a waste of his talents.

 

[Cal?]

Xavi himself, among others

Not sure if you’re trolling or if you’re genuinely not aware of Messi’s amazing versatility. The only reason he doesn’t get 73 goals every season is because that would be a waste of his talents.

I thought we've already established Xavi talks a lot of shit when it comes to Messi, he's probably the Grand Wizard of the Messi brigade.

Next you'd be claiming the only reason Messi recently scored CL QF goals for the first time in 6 years because he preferred to concentrate his efforts against Betis and co.

 

[Zehner]

Benzema is and always was a streaky player. He could go 2 months scoring in every game and then another 2 where he can't hit a barn door from 3 yards out. He's never been a great goalscorer. His number for us have been more or less in line with his number for OL or France

As for Messi allowing other strikers to score a lot, funny how that works: the only strikers to actually score a lot of goals next to him have been Eto'o(36 to Messi's 38), Neymar and Suarez

You'd almost think that has less to do with Messi and more to do with Neymar and Suarez being the 3rd and 4th best players in the world...

Well, you could also argue that the only striker whose numbers went down a little was David Villa and still scored 18 or so league goals in like 2500 minutes. Ibra exemplarily scored 16 in 200 minutes. Sanchez when he was a regular starter also had 19 goals and 12 assists in 2400 minutes in his final season.

 

[Saffron]

I thought we've already established Xavi talks a lot of shit when it comes to Messi, he's probably the Grand Wizard of the Messi brigade.

Next you'd be claiming the only reason Messi recently scored CL QF goals for the first time in 6 years because he preferred to concentrate his efforts against Betis and co.

If you’re not aware, I was referring to the 1 season he played striker where he got 73 goals and immediately stopped playing as a striker. Because he’s simply too versatile to restrict himself to being a goalscorer like Ronaldo.

Therefore it’s not a stretch to suggest his numbers would be in that ballpark if he played as a striker every season.

Then this debate wouldn’t even exist. But because the Ronaldo brigade is somehow incapable of realizing that equal goal count PLUS being miles better at nearly everything else makes Messi the better player, this thread lives on

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

Why does one player have to be better than the other?

I blame capitalism.

 

[Cal?]

If you’re not aware, I was referring to the 1 season he played as a striker where he got 73 goals and immediately stopped playing as a striker. Because he’s simply too versatile to restrict himself to being a goalscorer like Ronaldo.

Therefore it’s not a stretch to suggest his numbers would be in that ballpark if he played as a striker every season.

Then this debate wouldn’t even exist. But because the Ronaldo brigade is somehow incapable of realizing that equal goal count PLUS being better at nearly everything else makes Messi better, this thread lives on

Oh, the season where he bottled the penalty against Chelsea to cost his team a CL final place?

It's a joke to suggest he doesn't play as a forward nowadays.

 

[SportingCP96]

His behavior when losing or when things aren't going his way is.

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with his quality as a player.

 

[Saffron]

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with his quality as a player.

But Portugal winning a final without him apparently does

 

[Saffron]

It's a joke to suggest he doesn't play as a forward nowadays.

From last year:

Another European Golden Boot is on the horizon for the Argentina international, who is three ahead of Liverpool's Mohamed Salah and nine ahead of Cristiano Ronaldo.

What makes Messi's imminent achievement even more impressive is that he no longer plays like a striker, more like an attacking midfielder.

Messi recently admitted his role at Barcelona is changing and now an incredible heat map has emerged of his season that proves exactly that.

Per infosmessi and SofaScore, the below heat map shows Messi is outperforming every striker in the world right now from midfield.

https://www.givemesport.com/1310681...om-this-season-has-emerged-and-its-staggering

 

[Cal?]

From last year:

https://www.givemesport.com/1310681...om-this-season-has-emerged-and-its-staggering

The myth that he plays in midfield.

 

[Saffron]

The myth that he plays in midfield.

Well I wouldn’t call him a ”midfielder” but he does spend more time there than Ronaldo. Starts deeper, collects the ball, creates much more.

 

[Daysleeper]

Also, the main reason why barcelona wouldn't have won half as many league titles without messi is probably because we had Cristiano. Take out both, and i don't see things going differently

The argument of comparing two players based on trophies won is so fecking dumb

In which case if we take trophies out of the equation then Messi is comfortably the better player.

 

[Saffron]

Messi is 18 goals behind ronaldo and played wait for it ...... 150 less games with 62 more assists. Fhey dont even compare as goalscorers.

What’s great about this is that pretty soon there will come a time when Messi officially surpasses Ronaldo’s pure goal count. And then everyone will realize he needed over 100 less games to do it.

Ronaldo has built up this false image of himself as the better goalscorer, but when this milestone hits, illusions will be shattered. Hard.

Reddit, Twitter etc will explode and I will be there for it

 

[Gehrman]

The myth that he plays in midfield.

He is an attacking midfielder, a nr 10. Definitely not a striker these days.

 

[2mufc0]

I thought we've already established Xavi talks a lot of shit when it comes to Messi, he's probably the Grand Wizard of the Messi brigade.

Next you'd be claiming the only reason Messi recently scored CL QF goals for the first time in 6 years because he preferred to concentrate his efforts against Betis and co.

Most likely true though, Xavi, Messi, Iniesta, Pep all part of the same circle jerk.

 

[Svartzonker]

Why does so few trust their own eyes? Cherry picking stats will not settle this so called debate.

Watch the games and you will all know who is the superior player.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Messi is the GOAT. It's that simple.

He's the equal of Ronaldo as a scorer, they are clearly the two best at it.

But take that away from him and he's clearly the best playmaker too. He's unbelievable.

Even without his prolific scoring he'd be one of the best players around due to his playmaking ability. That's what separates him.

 

[Zehner]

Oh, the season where he bottled the penalty against Chelsea to cost his team a CL final place?

It's a joke to suggest he doesn't play as a forward nowadays.

It is a joke to suggest he does.

 

[CaptainAvengers]

The way to seperate the players is take away the goals scored (which is about equal) and you'll see clearly one can dictate the tempo of a game, playmaking ability up there, can impact a game, turn a cross on a six-pence etc..

Watch a game when both players don't score and who's performance satisfies you more? I think it is that simple.

 

[Saffron]

The way to seperate the players is take away the goals scored (which is about equal) and you'll see clearly one can dictate the tempo of a game, playmaking ability up there, can impact a game, turn a cross on a six-pence etc..

Watch a game when both players don't score and who's performance satisfies you more? I think it is that simple.

It’s extremely rare that Ronaldo gets lots of praise for a game where he doesn’t score or assist. Whereas the opposite is true for Messi. He has had innumerable immense games where he didn’t rack up any points but still dictated the play.

And conversely, Ronaldo can be completely invisible for an entire game but score a header in the 89th and suddenly it’s a great performance according to many. Because scoring is all they really expect him to do.

 

[Zlaatan]

they both got the same job done but in different ways? keep in mind no one is arguing who is the better creator.

But they didn't get the same job done.. Their teams scored the same amount of goals, but we're not comparing their teams. In this example one player created five chances and the other created two, which is quite a big difference.

If Pogba sets up Rashford for five 1-v-1's and KDB sets up Aguero for two 1-v-1's and they both get two assists, how does that say that Pogba and KDB did the same job?

 

[RochaRoja]

It’s really interesting how common it is for Cristiano fans to use plays and phrases directly from the alt-right/Trump play book.

It’s almost as if total devotion to a charismatic narcissist makes people completely lose their concept of objective reality or something.

(See also: José Mourinho)

 

[RochaRoja]

Messi, one wack off Smalling and he wasn't the same, so they say, how many wacks did Ronaldo have at 17 , 18 , 19, in prem hmmm. Messi mesmerising player in 1 league 1 league alone, in Europe, your not aloud to takle him, every tackle is afoul, regardless. Uefas golden boy untouchable, bloody face is in everywhere Even when Ya ya Toura, was best player in Europe or the world, he still didn't get Balon dor?
Messi can be injured for 6mths and still win it! Could I suppose have moved from Barca, but didn't have the balls to do it in another league week in week out, like a fair weather golfer , like a rugby scrum half is great when pack is on top,

Will go down as one of the best in a generation at one club, Ronaldo is now on his 4th club in differing leagues. Scored in all of them, won with his country a European championship
Albeit getting injured in final. So he's the better player. Messi not even the best for Argentina, maradonna that is, now there's a player.

I don’t know what’s more laughable: the idea that Yaya Touré was ever “the best player in Europe or the world” or the idea that Messi hasn’t spent his entire career being roughed up. The Premier League is like an episode of the Teletubbies compared to South American football ffs.

 

[Saffron]

It’s really interesting how common it is for Cristiano fans to use plays and phrases directly from the alt-right/Trump play book.

It’s almost as if total devotion to a charismatic narcissist makes people completely lose their concept of objective reality or something.

(See also: José Mourinho)

It’s also interesting to look at how often they use sarcastic oneliners as a substitute for debating. Very Trump like and very indicative of an untenable standpoint that has to be covered up by constant deflections and distractions.

 

[Tostao_80]

It’s also interesting to look at how often they use sarcastic oneliners as a substitute for debating. Very Trump like and very indicative of an untenable standpoint that has to be covered up by constant deflections and distractions.

Dismantling their arguments is so easy. Case in point.
Cristiano fans: Cristiano is better because he has has won more (debatable but lets go with it).
Messi fans: but that argument is not definitive, otherwise didnt Muller win more than Diego? Was Muller therefore better? Sergio Ramos has won more than Baresi. Who is greater?
Cristiano fans: no answer. But hold on, he's better because he scores better, esp in the CL.
Messi fans: Again, scoring more doesnt make one better, or are you now saying that Lampard was better than Zidane AND Iniesta because he scored more?
Cristiano fans: silence again. But Cristiano is better because he has more Balon Dor votes. Messi fans: again, cant always go by that, otherwise are you saying that Lampard AND Gerrard were MUCH better than Scholes because they destroyed him in Balon Dor voting (in fact, he never got a single vote in his career).
Cristiano fans finally respond: Well sometimes Balon Dor is wrong, look how Sneider got cheated by Messi in 2010. Messi should have 4.
Messi fans: but hold up. One minute you are swearing by The Balon Dor and using it to big up Cristiano, then the next, youre doubting its accuracy. Which is it?
Cristiano fans: Again, no response.
Messi fans: what quality as a footballer makes Cristiano better?
Cristiano fans: Well, how about heading and off the ball movement.
Messi fans: Muller had better heading and off the ball movement than Diego, did that make him better?
Cristiano fans: again silence. Hes another one, Cristiano is more clutch.
Messi fans: Muller was more clutch than Diego. Was he better?
Cristiano fans: silence. But Cristiano has proved it in different leagues, so hes better.
Messi fans: again not definitive. Or are you now saying that Marcel Desailly is greater than Beckenbauer, Moore, Maldini AND Baresi because he proved it in different leagues? Zola better than Roberto Baggio? Evra better than Maldini?
Cristiano fans: silence again.
Breaking down their arguments is like childsplay.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

Dismantling their arguments is so easy. Case in point.
Cristiano fans: Cristiano is better because he has has won more (debatable but lets go with it).
Messi fans: but that argument is not definitive, otherwise didnt Muller win more than Diego? Was Muller therefore better? Sergio Ramos has won more than Baresi. Who is greater?
Cristiano fans: no answer. But hold on, he's better because he scores better, esp in the CL.
Messi fans: Again, scoring more doesnt make one better, or are you now saying that Lampard was better than Zidane AND Iniesta because he scored more?
Cristiano fans: silence again. But Cristiano is better because he has more Balon Dor votes. Messi fans: again, cant always go by that, otherwise are you saying that Lampard AND Gerrard were MUCH better than Scholes because they destroyed him in Balon Dor voting (in fact, he never got a single vote in his career).
Cristiano fans finally respond: Well sometimes Balon Dor is wrong, look how Sneider got cheated by Messi in 2010. Messi should have 4.
Messi fans: but hold up. One minute you are swearing by The Balon Dor and using it to big up Cristiano, then the next, youre doubting its accuracy. Which is it?
Cristiano fans: Again, no response.
Messi fans: what quality as a footballer makes Cristiano better?
Cristiano fans: Well, how about heading and off the ball movement.
Messi fans: Muller had better heading and off the ball movement than Diego, did that make him better?
Cristiano fans: again silence. Hes another one, Cristiano is more clutch.
Messi fans: Muller was more clutch than Diego. Was he better?
Cristiano fans: silence. But Cristiano has proved it in different leagues, so hes better.
Messi fans: again not definitive. Or are you now saying that Marcel Desailly is greater than Beckenbauer, Moore, Maldini AND Baresi because he proved it in different leagues? Zola better than Roberto Baggio? Evra better than Maldini?
Cristiano fans: silence again.
Breaking down their arguments is like childsplay.

Brilliant

 

[redcafe_reader]

Dismantling their arguments is so easy. Case in point.
Cristiano fans: Cristiano is better because he has has won more (debatable but lets go with it).
Messi fans: but that argument is not definitive, otherwise didnt Muller win more than Diego? Was Muller therefore better? Sergio Ramos has won more than Baresi. Who is greater?
Cristiano fans: no answer. But hold on, he's better because he scores better, esp in the CL.
Messi fans: Again, scoring more doesnt make one better, or are you now saying that Lampard was better than Zidane AND Iniesta because he scored more?
Cristiano fans: silence again. But Cristiano is better because he has more Balon Dor votes. Messi fans: again, cant always go by that, otherwise are you saying that Lampard AND Gerrard were MUCH better than Scholes because they destroyed him in Balon Dor voting (in fact, he never got a single vote in his career).
Cristiano fans finally respond: Well sometimes Balon Dor is wrong, look how Sneider got cheated by Messi in 2010. Messi should have 4.
Messi fans: but hold up. One minute you are swearing by The Balon Dor and using it to big up Cristiano, then the next, youre doubting its accuracy. Which is it?
Cristiano fans: Again, no response.
Messi fans: what quality as a footballer makes Cristiano better?
Cristiano fans: Well, how about heading and off the ball movement.
Messi fans: Muller had better heading and off the ball movement than Diego, did that make him better?
Cristiano fans: again silence. Hes another one, Cristiano is more clutch.
Messi fans: Muller was more clutch than Diego. Was he better?
Cristiano fans: silence. But Cristiano has proved it in different leagues, so hes better.
Messi fans: again not definitive. Or are you now saying that Marcel Desailly is greater than Beckenbauer, Moore, Maldini AND Baresi because he proved it in different leagues? Zola better than Roberto Baggio? Evra better than Maldini?
Cristiano fans: silence again.
Breaking down their arguments is like childsplay.

I cringed pretty hard on your own strawman/patting on your own back and the "Cristiano fans: silence again"...

If you use "what about abc" as an argument then it can be used again Messi or any other player too. So if you think Messi is better, just tell me why and I will use the exact same style of argument again you.

For what it worth, Messi is better for me but your way or arguing...

 

[Hughie77]

I don’t know what’s more laughable: the idea that Yaya Touré was ever “the best player in Europe or the world” or the idea that Messi hasn’t spent his entire career being roughed up. The Premier League is like an episode of the Teletubbies compared to South American football ffs.

Ohh ffs, what South American league did Messi play in! Been at Barca since a kid ffs, and Ya ya was the best in the 1st yr city won there tile, I'm not a city fan. Messi is and will always be a top player in 1 league , unless he goes to China, or USA for mega bucks to finish off. Read all of it ffs . Just goes to show there's only on league watched in some minds, like the ones who vote for the Balon dor!

He probably get it again, they don't look at any one else, hope Ajax win CL then see who gets it, even if pool win it none of there players will get it iether, ffs. He end up a fat cocaine head like Maradona , but great players ffs

 

[Saffron]

Most likely true though, Xavi, Messi, Iniesta, Pep all part of the same circle jerk.

So when the 4 main architects of arguably the greatest team ever praise each other, it’s baseless circle jerk?

”Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson all part of the same circle jerk”.

Xavi recently predicted 7 out of 8 quarterfinalists in the Asian Cup, predicted both finalists and predicted the highly unfancied winners before the tournament even started. He might know a thing or two about football.

 

[RochaRoja]

Ohh ffs, what South American league did Messi play in! Been at Barca since a kid ffs, and Ya ya was the best in the 1st yr city won there tile, I'm not a city fan. Messi is and will always be a top player in 1 league , unless he goes to China, or USA for mega bucks to finish off. Read all of it ffs . Just goes to show there's only on league watched in some minds, like the ones who vote for the Balon dor!

He probably get it again, they don't look at any one else, hope Ajax win CL then see who gets it, even if pool win it none of there players will get it iether, ffs. He end up a fat cocaine head like Maradona , but great players ffs

Pretty sure Argentina plays in South America.

Yaya Touré being the best player in the world in 2012 is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

 

[Rito]

I cringed pretty hard on your own strawman/patting on your own back and the "Cristiano fans: silence again"...

If you use "what about abc" as an argument then it can be used again Messi or any other player too. So if you think Messi is better, just tell me why and I will use the exact same style of argument again you.

For what it worth, Messi is better for me but your way or arguing...

His memorable post is the one where he said Messi has won more Onze D'or, so he must be better.

 

[Zehner]

Yaya Touré being the best player in the world in 2012 is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

Wouldn't even have him in my top 5 at any point in time. Probably not even top 10.

 

[Paddy1983]

Dismantling their arguments is so easy. Case in point.
Cristiano fans: Cristiano is better because he has has won more (debatable but lets go with it).
Messi fans: but that argument is not definitive, otherwise didnt Muller win more than Diego? Was Muller therefore better? Sergio Ramos has won more than Baresi. Who is greater?
Cristiano fans: no answer. But hold on, he's better because he scores better, esp in the CL.
Messi fans: Again, scoring more doesnt make one better, or are you now saying that Lampard was better than Zidane AND Iniesta because he scored more?
Cristiano fans: silence again. But Cristiano is better because he has more Balon Dor votes. Messi fans: again, cant always go by that, otherwise are you saying that Lampard AND Gerrard were MUCH better than Scholes because they destroyed him in Balon Dor voting (in fact, he never got a single vote in his career).
Cristiano fans finally respond: Well sometimes Balon Dor is wrong, look how Sneider got cheated by Messi in 2010. Messi should have 4.
Messi fans: but hold up. One minute you are swearing by The Balon Dor and using it to big up Cristiano, then the next, youre doubting its accuracy. Which is it?
Cristiano fans: Again, no response.
Messi fans: what quality as a footballer makes Cristiano better?
Cristiano fans: Well, how about heading and off the ball movement.
Messi fans: Muller had better heading and off the ball movement than Diego, did that make him better?
Cristiano fans: again silence. Hes another one, Cristiano is more clutch.
Messi fans: Muller was more clutch than Diego. Was he better?
Cristiano fans: silence. But Cristiano has proved it in different leagues, so hes better.
Messi fans: again not definitive. Or are you now saying that Marcel Desailly is greater than Beckenbauer, Moore, Maldini AND Baresi because he proved it in different leagues? Zola better than Roberto Baggio? Evra better than Maldini?
Cristiano fans: silence again.
Breaking down their arguments is like childsplay.

Soooooo funny and so true.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Ohh ffs, what South American league did Messi play in! Been at Barca since a kid ffs, and Ya ya was the best in the 1st yr city won there tile, I'm not a city fan. Messi is and will always be a top player in 1 league , unless he goes to China, or USA for mega bucks to finish off. Read all of it ffs . Just goes to show there's only on league watched in some minds, like the ones who vote for the Balon dor!

He probably get it again, they don't look at any one else, hope Ajax win CL then see who gets it, even if pool win it none of there players will get it iether, ffs. He end up a fat cocaine head like Maradona , but great players ffs

This is like reading a whatsapp message on a Sunday morning from your drunk friend. Gibberish.

Why do you want a Liverpool player to win it?

 

[Bruno Marques]

I don’t know what’s more laughable: the idea that Yaya Touré was ever “the best player in Europe or the world” or the idea that Messi hasn’t spent his entire career being roughed up. The Premier League is like an episode of the Teletubbies compared to South American football ffs.

The more laughable thing is talking about politics or trump in a football forum

 

[VBI]

Surely there's no point in this debate this season? Ronaldo's only chance was to win the CL, as that would have been an achievement of some note. As it is, he went to a somewhat weaker team/smaller club in a significantly weaker league, and has performed below his own standards statistically and below Messi by some measure. Messi is 99.99% certain to win a record equalling 6th Pichichi award, reasonably likely to win a record extending 6th Golden Shoe, and has a decent shout of winning the CL top scorer, AND has already achieved more across the season with a CL semi final, Copa final and likely league title win to come.

Time to pack this up and start up again in the new season.