Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[MalcolmTucker]

Their difference in 14/15 was the quality of there teams and not the other way around. Put Neymar and Suarez with Ronaldo and the treble goes the other way so that is futile.

Not my point. Messi was putting on individual masterclasses in the CL of which Ronaldo simply doesn't have the ability to do. Ronaldo's CL numbers in the last 5 years are awe inspiring but his all round game hasn't been. That's why Messi can have iconic performances against City without scoring or assisting while Ronaldo can't. Which leads me to my next point;

“It’s not debatable who creates more chances”. Cool. What matters are the numbers that make the goals and if Messi creates 5 more chances but gets 2 assists and Ronaldo creates 2 chances and gets 2 assists I don’t see the difference

If you don't see the difference then I pity you, really what is the point of watching full football games if this is your viewpoint?

Here's Ronaldo's playmaking from a single season - 5 minutes of nice plays but most of it is around the area, square balls and crosses.


Compared to Messi from the same season (19 minutes) - look at the difference, a lot of these are from his own half or deep the middle third. The vision and the quality of the passes are night and day to Ronaldo's, never mind the sheer quantity of them


In the end, Ronaldo's responsibility is a box player, so of course he is going to get plenty of assists because he plays closer to goal (when Ronaldo picks up the ball in midfield he pretty much passes to the closest team mate then moves towards the box). Messi has far more responsibility and creates chances or advantages from any where in the opponent's half. This is all very obvious to anyone with eyes so let me ask you this; do you really believe that Ronaldo creates as many chances as Messi?

 

[SportingCP96]

No. Messi was putting on individual masterclasses in the CL of which Ronaldo simply doesn't have the ability to do. Ronaldo's CL numbers in the last 5 years are awe inspiring but his all round game hasn't been. That's why Messi can have iconic performances against City without scoring or assisting while Ronaldo can't. Which leads me to my next point;



If you don't see the difference then I pity you, really what is the point of watching full football games if this is your viewpoint?

Here's Ronaldo's playmaking from a single season - 5 minutes of nice plays but most of it is around the area, square balls and crosses.


Compared to Messi from the same season (19 minutes) - look at the difference, a lot of these are from his own half or deep the middle third. The vision and the quality of the passes are night and day to Ronaldo's.


In the end, Ronaldo's responsibility is a box player, so of course he is going to get plenty of assists because he plays closer to goal (when Ronaldo picks up the ball in midfield he pretty much passes to the closest team mate then moves towards the box). Messi has far more responsibility and creates chances or advantages from any where in the opponent's half. This is all very obvious to anyone with eyes so let me ask you this; do you really believe that Ronaldo creates as many chances as Messi?

I don't nor will I sit here and say Ronaldo is a more creative player then Messi, Messi is a better passer creator and has more vision. I never said otherwise. My point is (and I cant remember if it was you or someone else who said it because I am in class) that people cant just sit here and say Ronaldo is just goals when he really is not and if you have watched him from 07/08 onwards you would know that (once again I don't mean you I mean you as in everyone). He does a lot more for his team then just score and to Messi credit he is better at creating passing and all those things then Ronaldo because it is the nature of his game. Just like Ronaldo being better at the things I have stated is the nature of his game despite everything they are both very different players.

Ronaldo has had many iconic and memorable performances in the CL and moments that part is not a debate.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Ronaldo fanboys make me laugh. Ronaldo is better in 1 area "The air" everything else messi is miles ahead.

Messi is 18 goals behind ronaldo and played wait for it ...... 150 less games with 62 more assists. Fhey dont even compare as goalscorers.

3 leagues dominated???? Really

How many la liga titles has ronaldo won vs Messi. Juventus will win the leagie for the first time in how many years this year thanks to Ronaldo.

It will kill the ronaldo fanboys seeing Messi win the Balon Dor. Because Ronaldo fans love winning individual awards. I doubt Messi cares. Sad thing is when he does win it Ronaldo wont get the chance again because of age.

It's not just air though. Ronaldo's mentality and desire are a notch above everyone else's including Messi. That's why this is a debate. Ofcourse Messi has more skill, but the fact that Ronaldo comes close is a testament to the significance of the mental aspect.

Because like it or not, Messi vs Ronaldo is a valid debate with good points in favor of either man.

Not that anyone in here ever makes any, mind.

 

[giorno]

That says more about the quality of Barcelona then it does about Ronaldo. In fact that proves another point I stated.

Genuinely curious: why is that?

 

[Tostao_80]

IF Messi wins it this year, Ronaldo would have still received more votes than Messi in 10 out of 16 years.

Damn, you are really getting desperate now. In 50 years time, who will really care that Cristiano got more votes in that 16 year span? All people will care about is Leo WINNING more Balon Dor titles. Nobody talks about Platini's 5 top 3 finishes, or Cruyff's 4 top 3 finishes. They both won 3 apiece, and that's all people remember. And seeing as you put so much stock in individual titles, Kevin Keegan won more Balon Dors than the mighty Eusebio. Who is considered greater of the two? I guess you would say Keegan because he won more titles.
Also, just out of curiosity, do you consider both Lampard and Gerrard as greater than Paul Scholes? They won a lot more votes than Paul Scholes in the Balon Dor voting.

 

[giorno]

Messi, you mean. Without him Barca wouldn't be anywhere near as dominant.

No? They had the spine of the national team that won euro-wc-euro. And when they lost that, they went and signed the 3rd and 4th best players in the world

 

[Zlaatan]

Their difference in 14/15 was the quality of there teams and not the other way around. Put Neymar and Suarez with Ronaldo and the treble goes the other way so that is futile.

“It’s not debatable who creates more chances”. Cool. What matters are the numbers that make the goals and if Messi creates 5 more chances but gets 2 assists and Ronaldo creates 2 chances and gets 2 assists I don’t see the difference.

That’s besides Bringing up the fact that Messi out of la liga and Barcelona would have his stats reduced by a noticeable amount despite still being world class.

How can you not see the difference?

 

[Daysleeper]

No? They had the spine of the national team that won euro-wc-euro. And when they lost that, they went and signed the 3rd and 4th best players in the world

They would not be winning even half as many La Liga's without him.

 

[giorno]

So Ronaldo is not a good dribbler? Or getting passed players?

Not anymore, no. Used to be though

Btw, he's been the best player in serie A by a country mile this season

 

[SportingCP96]

How can you not see the difference?

they both got the same job done but in different ways? keep in mind no one is arguing who is the better creator.

 

[SportingCP96]

Not anymore, no. Used to be though

Btw, he's been the best player in serie A by a country mile this season

I agree 100% like I said he has molded his game and changed styles on 3 different occasions.

 

[SportingCP96]

Genuinely curious: why is that?

Barca are a better "team" and a lot more consistent than Real and you need that in a 38 league season. They know how to win the little games because those are the ones that ultimately win championships and grind out results. They are not as complacent in a 38 game season. Countless times they were losing by multiple goals this season and rallied back most recently at Villarreal. Madrid just always seemed to get more complacent.

In the CL its more high pressure knockout games and Real and especially Ronaldo seem to thrive on that.

Where as as has been shown on constant occasions Barca and in particular Messi buckles under the pressure.

 

[Cal?]

Damn, you are really getting desperate now. In 50 years time, who will really care that Cristiano got more votes in that 16 year span? All people will care about is Leo WINNING more Balon Dor titles. Nobody talks about Platini's 5 top 3 finishes, or Cruyff's 4 top 3 finishes. They both won 3 apiece, and that's all people remember. And seeing as you put so much stock in individual titles, Kevin Keegan won more Balon Dors than the mighty Eusebio. Who is considered greater of the two? I guess you would say Keegan because he won more titles.
Also, just out of curiosity, do you consider both Lampard and Gerrard as greater than Paul Scholes? They won a lot more votes than Paul Scholes in the Balon Dor voting.

It was the Messi brigade during the 4-1 era who valued the Ballon D'or above everything else, it's just funny how they changed their tune completely in the last few years.

There have always been issues with the Ballon D'or voting, Sneijder was more than deserving in 2010 whilst Modric wasn't in 2018.

 

[SportingCP96]

It was the Messi brigade during the 4-1 era who valued the Ballon D'or above everything else, it's just funny how they changed their tune completely in the last few years.

There have always been issues with the Ballon D'or voting, Sneijder was more than deserving in 2010 whilst Modric wasn't in 2018.

I to remember when it was 4-1 it was shoved down Ronaldo fans throats as proof Messi was better.

Then Ronaldo eclipses Messi even wins something with his country and now "none of that matters".

Lastly again you are right. Sneijder was the best player in the world in 2010 and thats being completely honest. He genuinely impacted and was the very player for everything inter and the Netherlands did.

The truth is Balon D Or it should be
Messi-4 Ronaldo-6

 

[Donk87]

Have you forgotten his clutchness against Atletico a few weeks ago?
By the way, where was messi's clutchness against Roma last season, against Juve the season before that, and against Atletico the season before that? Also not forgetting that Messi managed to luckily score against a very mediocre United side that was already counted out before the match... have some dignity my friend

I'm taking the piss out of the use of clutch/clutchness and all variations of, not making a serious point.

How did you not get that?

 

[Schneckerl]

"Ronaldo is trash"

Comments like that make it that no can take anything you say seriously on this topic.

SportingCP96
Supports: Sporting CP

 

[Saffron]

Except for the fact that Messi plays nowhere near where Xavi used to, so you're making a fool of yourself just like the person who came up with that idiotic quote.

The point is Messi could easily play the Xavi role just as well as Xavi did, and if he’s not allowed to score, that role would probably be his most useful

 

[SportingCP96]

SportingCP96
Supports: Sporting CP

ok? your point? That means I am crazy for saying that "Ronaldo is trash" is a fecking stupid statement?

Facts don't care about your feelings and most of the shet I say is facts

 

[giorno]

If you think Ronaldo was better than Messi (or even equal) in 14/15 then you're demented. Messi was putting on masterclasses against Man City and Bayern in the CL while grabbing a treble

Playing next to Neymar and Suarez. Cristiano meanwhile was very much Messi's equal for most of the season, until we his and the rest of the team's legs allowed it. Seriously, he was pretty much the only guy on our team to show up against juventus in the semis. Messi got to shine brighter in the CL because he was allowed to. In 14/15 Cristiano was every bit as otherwordly. 48 goals in the league alone ffs, scored in 10 of the 12 games he played in CL

And assists stats are largely meaningless, it's not debatable who creates more chances for their team mates. Ronaldo is just a goalscorer these days, while Messi is a playmaker and a goalscorer and Messi is better at both currently (and overall in their careers, as he has a better goals p/g ratio).

Just a goalscorer, yes, broadly. A goalscorer who scores almost a goal a game and in almost every big game. Last i checked, goals are what win games

 

[pregra]

The truth is Balon D Or it should be
Messi-4 Ronaldo-6

Mental... if anything it should be 6-3 to Messi.

 

[Charles Miller]

I think Messi has talent to score at least two goals every game at any level againat any team/nt. But the only reason he was so amazing against United is because Barcelona won away and it was in the Camp Nou. No way i would trust him to do what Cristiano Ronaldo did against Atletico Madrid in those conditions. Also, again, there is no such thing as a "goat" who can't lead your nt in the world cup if you are Brazilian, Argentinian or German.

 

[SportingCP96]

Mental... if anything it should be 6-3 to Messi.

Ronaldo should of won 2018 and Messi should not have won 2010.

Every other Balon D or was rightfully given to the correct winner of either side.

 

[Pocho]

Playing next to Neymar and Suarez. Cristiano meanwhile was very much Messi's equal for most of the season, until we his and the rest of the team's legs allowed it. Seriously, he was pretty much the only guy on our team to show up against juventus in the semis. Messi got to shine brighter in the CL because he was allowed to. In 14/15 Cristiano was every bit as otherwordly. 48 goals in the league alone ffs, scored in 10 of the 12 games he played in CL


Just a goalscorer, yes, broadly. A goalscorer who scores almost a goal a game and in almost every big game. Last i checked, goals are what win games

Great goalscorer then, like Muller.

 

[SportingCP96]

Apparently if you are a Sporting,Madrid, or even Portuguese you cant say Ronaldo is better.

 

[giorno]

They would not be winning even half as many La Liga's without him.

We don't win 4 CL in 5 years without Cristiano either

 

[SportingCP96]

We don't win 4 CL in 5 years without Cristiano either

NO STOP! That statement only applies when talking about Messi. Sorry you cant use that in an argument.

 

[giorno]

Great goalscorer then, like Muller.

Yeah, like one of the best players of all time. From his age 30 to age 34 seasons. He's a similar player and equal to or better than one of the best players ever, after losing pretty much half of his game

I really don't understand the gerd muller comparison as if it were a negative thing

 

[Pocho]

Yeah, like one of the best players of all time. From his age 30 to age 34 seasons. He's a similar player and equal to or better than one of the best players ever, after losing pretty much half of his game

I really don't understand the gerd muller comparison as if it were a negative thing

It is not negative at all. Cristiano fans take it negatively.

 

[giorno]

They would not be winning even half as many La Liga's without him.

Also, the main reason why barcelona wouldn't have won half as many league titles without messi is probably because we had Cristiano. Take out both, and i don't see things going differently

The argument of comparing two players based on trophies won is so fecking dumb

 

[giorno]

The point is Messi could easily play the Xavi role just as well as Xavi did, and if he’s not allowed to score, that role would probably be his most useful

Can he? We have no proof of that

I tend to agree with Capello in his description of both, but get this: Messi? We've actually seen his like before.

We've never seen the like of Cristiano before*. Over 14 seasons he's been literally 3 different players, and every incarnation was a top 10 all time at worst

*we probably would have, had injuries not ended the career of Marco Van Basten just as he was entering his prime

 

[Tostao_80]

ok? your point? That means I am crazy for saying that "Ronaldo is trash" is a fecking stupid statement?

Facts don't care about your feelings and most of the shet I say is facts

Yeah, like Ronaldo should be leading the Balon Dor 6 to 4. That is not a fact, that is conjecture.

 

[SportingCP96]

Yeah, like Ronaldo should be leading the Balon Dor 6 to 4. That is not a fact, that is conjecture.

I said 'Most" the Balon D or is for sure debatable. But I think many would agree Sneijder was the best player in 2010 and Modric was NOT the best player in 2018.

Hence why I said most not all.

 

[giorno]

Barca are a better "team" and a lot more consistent than Real and you need that in a 38 league season. They know how to win the little games because those are the ones that ultimately win championships and grind out results. They are not as complacent in a 38 game season. Countless times they were losing by multiple goals this season and rallied back most recently at Villarreal. Madrid just always seemed to get more complacent.

In the CL its more high pressure knockout games and Real and especially Ronaldo seem to thrive on that.

Where as as has been shown on constant occasions Barca and in particular Messi buckles under the pressure.

But Cristiano wasn't carrying us in every game in those CL. I mean, looking at the SF and Finals of those 4 CL, in 11 games he was truly great in 2, very good in another, decent to good in 2 others, and actually relatively poor in the other 6(outright poor in Milan)

It's a team sport. Teams win stuff as a team, not because of one player. Unless it's Maradona at Mexico '86

 

[Zehner]

Playing next to Neymar and Suarez. Cristiano meanwhile was very much Messi's equal for most of the season, until we his and the rest of the team's legs allowed it. Seriously, he was pretty much the only guy on our team to show up against juventus in the semis. Messi got to shine brighter in the CL because he was allowed to. In 14/15 Cristiano was every bit as otherwordly. 48 goals in the league alone ffs, scored in 10 of the 12 games he played in CL


Just a goalscorer, yes, broadly. A goalscorer who scores almost a goal a game and in almost every big game. Last i checked, goals are what win games

Ronaldo didn't play with bad players either. Thing is, the only two players Cris formed a really synergetic partnership with at Madrid were Marcelo and Özil. Benzema exemplarily was vital vor Ronaldo but he sacrificed much of his goal threat to become a supporting striker. Cristiano makes it hard for both strikers (since he occupies their space in the box) and left wingers (since that's where he starts his runs). Can't imagine Neymar and Suarez would've had similarly successful careers at Madrid. Messi on the other hand made their numbers go up, fed them with beautiful through balls and so forth. He's got so many trademark partnerships it's unreal. There was completely intuitive understanding with Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets, Alves, Alba, Neymar and Suarez just to name a few and it made both players better. He makes others look great and I don't think that's the case for Ronnie. He didn'nt really click with Bale, Isco, Benzema and Higuain, now it's a similar case with Dybala. Benzema exemplarily has scored almost as much as Suarez this season although the latter missed significantly more chances. You often get the feeling that his team mates have to adjust their playing style in order to complement him and usually there's only one who profits from it, at least in terms of numbers. Messi on the other hand makes his team mates numbers go up and scores his 40+ goals a season on top of that.

 

[SportingCP96]

But Cristiano wasn't carrying us in every game in those CL. I mean, looking at the SF and Finals of those 4 CL, in 11 games he was truly great in 2, very good in another, decent to good in 2 others, and actually relatively poor in the other 6(outright poor in Milan)

It's a team sport. Teams win stuff as a team, not because of one player. Unless it's Maradona at Mexico '86

I agree the team make a big difference and then players of Messi and Ronaldo quality get you over the edge.

Only in the sport of basketball can 1 player single handedly win the game in a team sport.

 

[giorno]

Ronaldo didn't play with bad players either. Thing is, the only two players Cris formed a really synergetic partnership with at Madrid were Marcelo and Özil. Benzema exemplarily was vital vor Ronaldo but he sacrificed much of his goal threat to become a supporting striker. Cristiano makes it hard for both strikers (since he occupies their space in the box) and left wingers (since that's where he starts his runs). Can't imagine Neymar and Suarez would've had similarly successful careers at Madrid. Messi on the other hand made their numbers go up, fed them with beautiful through balls and so forth. He's got so many trademark partnerships it's unreal. There was completely intuitive understanding with Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets, Alves, Alba, Neymar and Suarez just to name a few and it made both players better. He makes others look great and I don't think that's the case for Ronnie. He didn'nt really click with Bale, Isco, Benzema and Higuain, now it's a similar case with Dybala, you often get the feeling that his team mates have to adjust their playing style in order to complement him and usually there's only one who profits from it, at least in terms of numbers.

Of course not

As to the rest of the post: Cristiano never had teammates as good and talented as the ones you mentioned playing with Messi

And i disagree strongly about him not clicking with Benzema or forcing him to sacrifice his own goals for him. Benzema was never a great goalscorer, too streaky. That has nothing to do with Cristiano

 

[Hughie77]

Messi, one wack off Smalling and he wasn't the same, so they say, how many wacks did Ronaldo have at 17 , 18 , 19, in prem hmmm. Messi mesmerising player in 1 league 1 league alone, in Europe, your not aloud to takle him, every tackle is afoul, regardless. Uefas golden boy untouchable, bloody face is in everywhere Even when Ya ya Toura, was best player in Europe or the world, he still didn't get Balon dor?
Messi can be injured for 6mths and still win it! Could I suppose have moved from Barca, but didn't have the balls to do it in another league week in week out, like a fair weather golfer , like a rugby scrum half is great when pack is on top,

Will go down as one of the best in a generation at one club, Ronaldo is now on his 4th club in differing leagues. Scored in all of them, won with his country a European championship
Albeit getting injured in final. So he's the better player. Messi not even the best for Argentina, maradonna that is, now there's a player.

 

[Schneckerl]

ok? your point? That means I am crazy for saying that "Ronaldo is trash" is a fecking stupid statement?

His behavior when losing or when things aren't going his way is.

 

[Cal?]

The point is Messi could easily play the Xavi role just as well as Xavi did, and if he’s not allowed to score, that role would probably be his most useful

What do you base that assumption on? The fact that Messi runs far less than anyone on the pitch and is ill suited to play a Xavi role?

 

[Cal?]

Mental... if anything it should be 6-3 to Messi.

Do explain...