Individual quality.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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Individual quality.
People rate De Bruyne + David Silva extremely highly because of what they did last season... Modric+Kroos hadn't been a partnership the season before 2014/15. Nobody thought Madrid had the best midfield in the world then, it was Juve and Barca.
Kroos has been so overrated it's incredible. Not saying he hasn't been a great player, he definitely has. But it's complete bullshit to put him as the no.2 midfielder behind Modric in the past few years. Winning the World Cup next to a superior midfielder in Schweinsteiger and the Champions Leagues next to a superior midfielder in Modric has done wonders to his reputation. Great set piece taker and great at long passes that switch the play to the other side. Isn't elite at none of the other major skills for a midfielder, not very press resistant, not a great short passer, average physically, not a big offensive threat and below average defensively, both at pressing and defensive transitions. He didn't massively decline at 28 like some pretend, this has been his level for a while and I think if Zidane is smart Kroos won't be starting at Real Madrid much longer.
He's lucky that he has the german media patting him on the back every chance they get. Verratti, Thiago (if the injuries allowed him), Pogba, De Bruyne and Pjanic could have all replaced him and achieved the same amount of success in these circumstances.
Kroos has been so overrated it's incredible. Not saying he hasn't been a great player, he definitely has. But it's complete bullshit to put him as the no.2 midfielder behind Modric in the past few years. Winning the World Cup next to a superior midfielder in Schweinsteiger and the Champions Leagues next to a superior midfielder in Modric has done wonders to his reputation. Great set piece taker and great at long passes that switch the play to the other side. Isn't elite at none of the other major skills for a midfielder, not very press resistant, not a great short passer, average physically, not a big offensive threat and below average defensively, both at pressing and defensive transitions. He didn't massively decline at 28 like some pretend, this has been his level for a while and I think if Zidane is smart Kroos won't be starting at Real Madrid much longer.
He's lucky that he has the german media patting him on the back every chance they get. Verratti, Thiago (if the injuries allowed him), Pogba, De Bruyne and Pjanic could have all replaced him and achieved the same amount of success in these circumstances.
Obviously not. This is just one of the many examples of people doubling down on an inane argument!
That much is obvious. @Zehner just made a post without checking and started to dig deeper with every post.
In 2014-15 Modric was injured and out for most of the season.
Together they started just 19 out of 59 games in all competitions. In one of those games Kroos was subbed out after first half.
4 games in CL
0 in Club world cup
13 games in La Liga
0 games in Copa del rey
2 games in super copa. In 1 of those games, Kroos was subbed out after first half.
Oh, the Onze d'Or guy. I didn't even see that!
He's seemingly battling his own thoughts - keeps arguing against arguments that no one made!
What's the problem here? People here don't seem to understand 80s football.Oh, the Onze d'Or guy. I didn't even see that!
Whether the award jumped the shark later on doesn't really matter, Platini winning it from 1983 - 1985 was a no brainer. Feel free to watch the games or double check in other sources - Italy has countless of football newspapers.
Maradona might have been the best player in the World at some point in the late 70s or early 80s, but the Onze d'Or was only awarded to players in Europe.
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Not to forget his initial argument was that casemiro, kroos and modric were the best midfield in the world for four years. One year of which casemiro was out on loan and the other he didn't start.
This is also hilarious, the CL winning team was Di Maria, Alonso/Khedira, Modric. So taking three mids out of that team = Modric best midfield in the world.
This is what I don't understand. This is not even opinion, he is factually wrong. Just accept and move on instead of digging bigger hole.
The award is based on a poll of a french magazine voters, do I really need to point out how stupid that is?
Oh, the Onze d'Or guy. I didn't even see that!
He's seemingly battling his own thoughts - keeps arguing against arguments that no one made!
Yes, Prometheus, the stats guy who seemingly can't form a rational argument. So, we've had penalties and headers, then Lampard over Zidane and Iniesta, then Kroos and Modric we'rent really that good, then the off the ball movement argument. You really cant get anymore desperate. Think you might need a break.
Looks like they got smart readers, because they got it right from '83 - '85. Platini also won the Ballon D'or those years by large margins. Who would be your suggestion?
1983: 1. Platini 2. Falcao 3. Rummenigge
1984: 1. Platini 2. Tigana 3. Elkjaer
1985. 1. Platini 2. Elkjaer 3. Maradona
Edit: Alright they had some extremly laughable results lately like:
2014-15 GRIEZMANN Antoine POGBA Paul LACAZETTE Alexandre
Is it confirmed that this was always a public only vote ? Or people just started trolling?
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I can only post 3 times ( new member here ) so couldn’t reply you earlier.
What is your point here then ? That Messi can turn it around against mighty Lyon huhh at home when score is 0-0 in first leg ?
And It’s not about scoring multiple times(like against Atlético Madrid ) . It’s about scoring/winning when the stakes are high and opposition is stronger/bad matchup. I fancy Ronaldo to do damage is such situations more than Messi .
What you saying here basically is certain teams which are basically strong in defense and well managed can nullify both Messi and Ronaldo right ? How does Messi become great then if he best ever for you ? And That’s exactly my point here in this forum is that both are extremely efficient and great on their own and only difference is their style .
Most people prefer Messi way but that doesn’t make him better in my eyes . I prefer Ronaldo and I truly think mentally he is far strong than Messi and doesn’t shy away from challenges .
His CL record is insane in recent years and only time he is not in final since 2014 is 2015 .even in that season he scored in both legs I think against Juventus. Weaving your magic against average La Liga teams is good and even Ronaldo did that thousand of times in La Liga but I think that’s comparatively easier to do than against elite European teams .
Yeah, and alltogether Modric had 25 appearances that season, 19 of those were alongside Kroos. Sounds like a partnership to me in which one player was injured for a larger amount of time.
The idea I only checked afterwards is nice but no, that's not the case. Modric at that time was quite obvious the best CM in the world, no need to explain. Kroos before his injury was one of Bayern's best players in their CL win. The next season he became even better under Pep and won the WC with Germany. I thought it was impossible that Bayern lets him leave but it happened. To me, it was clear that Real Madrid had the best midfield in the world the very moment the Kroos deal was announced. The closest to prime Xavi and Iniesta you could get. I was really excited and started watching Real solely to see how this partnership works out. So I assure you that I followed this partnership very closely since day one.
Yes, as a consequence Modric's injury problems they didn't play that much alongside each other. Still, there was no midfield in the world with the same quality, only ones that had more playing time in that season.
Again, this shows that you have simply no understanding of what is importantbfor a midfielder whatsoever. Except for Pjanic, none of these players is even suited for Kroos' role. These aren't controllers or distributors, they are key players like Modric or Iniesta that are best at creating transitions from static possession into attacks.
Especially if you see how often guys like Pogba, Thiago and de Bruyne lose the ball it is ridiculous to suggest Madrid would do equally good with them in Kroos' spot. You'd get a midfielder with more assists but lose control of the game. Especially Thiago is a player I absolutely love and prefer watching but he's not on Kroos level. Not as consistent as a passer, not as precise and subtle. With Isco he's IMO the most technically gifted CM currently playing the game but they simply don't utilize their full potential.
Kroos on the other side is the best progressive passer of the game. He moves the ball around the pitch and is incredibly precise when shifting the play. That alone nakes the opponent readjust their formation and that's when mistakes occur and holes in defensive lines come to existance. That he's not pressing resistant is completely ridiculous since among all those players you mentioned he's the one getting dispossessed the fewest amount of times. You simply can't get near him since his positioning (off the ball movement again) and awareness always provide him with an easy passing option to relieve pressure. There's no player better at outplaying the opponent's pressing bar Modric himself.
I can only repeat myself, you have no understanding of midfield play in possession oriented styles whatsoever. Zero.
And no, he hasn't declined, he's simply having a bad season. Happens, quite positive he'll be back.
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Like I said you make stuff up. You're an obvious troll.
Penalties and headers - I didn't even participate in that.
Lampard over Zidane - Never made that argument.
Modric and Kroos weren't that good - never said that!
Off the ball movement argument - didn't participate such discussion also.
You contribute nothing interesting to the discussion and keep making things up.
You do realize that people have stopped taking you seriously since that onze D'or feck up, right? Now you are just digging the hole deeper and making yourself look like a total fool.
Happy digging
That's what wiki says, like everyone else in this thread I knew nothing about it until tomato used it to boost up messi.
Also French people voting for Platini as the best is expected.
That characterization of Kroos is complete nonsense, really.
I'd also argue that while it's true that he's quite bad in defense transition (the tracking back part of it), he can be quite good at pressing when the whole team works as a unit and keeps spaces tight. It's just that neither Real nor Germany managed to do that in the last couple of years.
You do realize that people have stopped taking you seriously since that onze D'or feck up, right? Now you are just digging the hole deeper and making yourself look like a total fool.
Happy digging
Aren't you the guy who said "Messi brigade don't believe in facts or figures." Keep digging with that bs argument. You're like an obsessed sycophant. Try making more sense.
They don’t need to be the same kind of player to improve the team ffs. Suarez and Aguero are completely different to Benzema but they would have improved Madrid.
You have no understanding of football at all if you rate Kroos the way you do or if you believe he’s just having a bad season when he’s been at this level for almost 2 years. Those players would have better stats, results and midfield control if they played next to the best midfielder in the world in Luka Modric. Kroos has been nothing special in the slightest.
The shamelessness in pretending that he magically became a worse player the second Ronaldo left is unbelievable, especially when it apparently applies to half the damn team (Varane, Marcelo, Casemiro, Kroos, Isco)
It's elitist and stupid now to trust my own eyes? What else you going to trust. I think you have more of an issue with the tone of it tbh. I can't see what the over complication is, watch a match watch the players play, judge who is better.
And it's not "just look at it" It's just look at it over a period of 10 or so years, in conjunction with other factors tactics, circumstance luck, stats etc. In the end though looking is the most important factor whether it sounds elitist or not.
No Messi's claim to greatness is that he's won all different types of things whilst being the best player. Even when he loses he's usually the best player.
What you said is what Ronaldo fans say in order to make Messi sound worse and in order to make Ronaldo sound better.
Why would people discount winning in a Ronaldo/Messi argument when Messi wins more? No you reduce it to who is silkier on the ball because you deliberately misrepresent peoples arguments.
Garrincha isn't seen as better than Pele and others because he's not as well known, doesn't have as much to his game and his will to win didn't last as long. Loads of things. He's more of a cult status, underrated player.
Your buddy zehner is doing exactly that, maybe read his posts before accusing others of misrepresenting people's arguments. So the will to win and showing up at bigger stages matters a lot, in that case, something messi hasn't done as well as ronaldo for a majority of his career.
Ronaldo didn't even score after the quarter finals last year, at all, and his team still went on to win the whole thing. In 2014 and 2016 he did zilch against those same Atletico teams that beat Messi. His only goal in 2014 coming from a late, meaningless penalty when the game was already decided.
Messi literally scored multiple times against Juventus last season, when Barca was losing on aggregate last season to Chelsea, he completely turned the tie around in their favor. When they were losing on aggregate to Lyon (who had beaten city and at that point hadn't lost ONCE the entire tourney) he turned the tie around.
Are those teams (Lyon, Chelsea, Juventus last year) better than Atletico or 2017 Juventus? No. But it's amazing how a guy in Messi that has historically torched Ronaldo's teams time and time again (although maybe you consider Madrid an average la liga team as they've been absolutely miserable with just two trophies in the league over the past ten years) denied Ronaldo a CL on multiple occasions (his header against United is one of the all time iconic goals period, as is his run through the entire Madrid team by himself in 2011) but apparently, he shies away from a challenge.
He destroyed Bayern in the semi finals, all the other teams he lost to outside of Roma last year went on to the CL finals. Juventus imploded at halftime of the 2017 final.
Ronaldo is great a couple months out of the year and CL is absolutely where he has shined. No on is arguing that. But it's funny how much recency bias has made it seem like Messi has 0 CL's or something by the way some people talk about him. Messi is also the leading scorer in this year's CL.
And again, in 75% of the finals Ronaldo has played in he's been extremely pedestrian. Take the average CL Finals performance from Messi vs Ronaldo and Messi wins hands down.
But I do agree that Ronaldo has been better in CL in recent years over Messi, but I don't think that makes him the better player. Ronaldo has the luxury of having teammates finish the job in the Final. If Madrid had lost some of the CL finals where Ronaldo didn't show up no one would be talking about his performances nearly as much, they would just be focusing on the CL title winners instead. And to his credit, he's fantastic in the knockout rounds. No one can deny that. But as I've said before, it is a luxury to be allowed to be pedestrian multiple times (or miss 90% of a final altogether) and still come away with a trophy every time.
When has Messi played bad in the Champions League but had his team mates step up and get a result? I can only really think of the PSG 6-1
Spot on!
I love that Ronaldo is the one that has the luxury of having teammates bail him out despite the obvious fact Messi had better teammates that help him control the game and won 2 of his 3 Champions League titles playing with the best team in the history of the fecking sport and the other with Neymar and Suarez either side of him
Ronaldo is the one that had the luxury? Playing in the best team of all time... now that's a luxury. I guess in your mind it's a luxury to play with Eder instead of Higuain too, right?
No shit it's easier to show up more often when the team controls every single game against any team in the world. When the team is getting run over and completely dominated by the opposition then it's a bit harder to make a big difference. Welcome to football. It's easier to win Champions League titles when you have a teammate like Neymar scoring 7 goals in the last 5 games of the competition... having Gareth Bale play well for 30 minutes in the whole competition is not a luxury.
If Messi even got to the semifinals more often maybe he could afford to get injured and win the competition without playing... here's Ronaldo's record in the Champions League since he blew up at United.
2006/07: SF
2007/08: W
2008/09: F
2009/10: RO16
2010/11: SF
2011/12: SF
2012/13: SF
2013/14: W
2014/15: SF
2015/16: W
2016/17: W
2017/18: W
2018/19: Quarters vs Ajax
They get past Ajax and it's going to be the 12th CL semifinal he gets to in 13 years. In this period, Madrid didn't get to one semifinal without him, United got to one semifinal without him and Juve got to 2 semifinals without him. You'll still have people pretending it's easy to get there or that it's all luck and teammates bailing him out. Not every player can have the luxury of having the best set of teammates in the history of the sport that give him the best possible platform to dominate european football... but somehow it's Ronaldo that had the luxury of Ramos and Bale bailing him out rather than Ramos and Bale having had the luxury of playing with a player like Ronaldo who puts them in those situations to start with.
Bringing up the 2014 and 2016 CL finals in every post when you know damn well Ronaldo was injured in both matches and shouldn't have even played in 2014 is just awful. Both times they beat the Atletico team that knocked out Messi's Barcelona, last time Atletico lost a knockout match in Europe without facing Cristiano Ronaldo was in 2013, over 6 years ago. And you really believe that to be a coincidence? It's not like playing the style of football that a team with Ronaldo will play makes it harder for a defense like Atletico... no, it's because Ramos and Bale bail him out
"I mean if you basically want to discount winning"
Nobody discounts winning, you said they did, therefore you're misrepresenting. Just because you do this "and you.." thing, doesn't mean you weren't doing what you were accused of in the first place. Can we get beyond this 'I know you are I said you are but what am I' rubbish.
You know I'm just defending an argument that I see as better than yours so there's no need for this "My buddy" stuff. Honestly, If I see you or whoever else making a good argument in favor of Ronaldo (there's plenty of them) I will hold my hands up. Your arguments though, are bad and I can't in good faith defend them.
Anyway Ronaldo turns up less than Messi, he's won less. If you talk of Messi failing in the champions league (only recently mind, but for arguments sake) you have to talk about Ronaldo failing in the league.
You can have the same level as will to win as someone else but lose in unlucky or tactical circumstances, was this loss because of lack of will?
This is all pretty unrelated to this thread's topic, I just wanted to point out that the award used to be similar to the Ballon D'Or result wise just including SAs playing in Europe and had decent recognition at that time. They merged in the late 80s which might have caused some changes - not entirely sure.
Certainly, I don't think using it in this thread or "Tostao_80's" argument to boost up Messi with this award has any merit.
Absolutely spot on with everything.I love that Ronaldo is the one that has the luxury of having teammates bail him out despite the obvious fact Messi had better teammates that help him control the game and won 2 of his 3 Champions League titles playing with the best team in the history of the fecking sport and the other with Neymar and Suarez either side of him
Ronaldo is the one that had the luxury? Playing in the best team of all time... now that's a luxury. I guess in your mind it's a luxury to play with Eder instead of Higuain too, right?
No shit it's easier to show up more often when the team controls every single game against any team in the world. When the team is getting run over and completely dominated by the opposition then it's a bit harder to make a big difference. Welcome to football. It's easier to win Champions League titles when you have a teammate like Neymar scoring 7 goals in the last 5 games of the competition... having Gareth Bale play well for 30 minutes in the whole competition is not a luxury.
If Messi even got to the semifinals more often maybe he could afford to get injured and win the competition without playing... here's Ronaldo's record in the Champions League since he blew up at United.
2006/07: SF
2007/08: W
2008/09: F
2009/10: RO16
2010/11: SF
2011/12: SF
2012/13: SF
2013/14: W
2014/15: SF
2015/16: W
2016/17: W
2017/18: W
2018/19: Quarters vs Ajax
They get past Ajax and it's going to be the 12th CL semifinal he gets to in 13 years. In this period, Madrid didn't get to one semifinal without him, United got to one semifinal without him and Juve got to 2 semifinals without him. You'll still have people pretending it's easy to get there or that it's all luck and teammates bailing him out. Not every player can have the luxury of having the best set of teammates in the history of the sport that give him the best possible platform to dominate european football... but somehow it's Ronaldo that had the luxury of Ramos and Bale bailing him out rather than Ramos and Bale having had the luxury of playing with a player like Ronaldo who puts them in those situations to start with.
Bringing up the 2014 and 2016 CL finals in every post when you know damn well Ronaldo was injured in both matches and shouldn't have even played in 2014 is just awful. Both times they beat the Atletico team that knocked out Messi's Barcelona, last time Atletico lost a knockout match in Europe without facing Cristiano Ronaldo was in 2013, over 6 years ago. And you really believe that to be a coincidence? It's not like playing the style of football that a team with Ronaldo will play makes it harder for a defense like Atletico... no, it's because Ramos and Bale bail him out
Thats exactly what zehner is doing, are you not reading his posts?
Yeah sure, I will wait for the day that happens. With the amount of bias you have, I am not expecting it to be any time soon. No, as soon as the great barca side declined and the best front three the world has ever seen didn't last with neymar being sold and suarez declining. And the CL>League, it always has been that way.This thread is giving me a headache. Its more complex than the Israel/Palestine issue or the origin of life.
Thats exactly what zehner is doing, are you not reading his posts?
"I mean if you basically want to discount winning"
Again. People don't and haven't done this. You said they did. You can go '
you can't read!' all you want, what I've just said is what you did.Simply pointing out I'm biased isn't enough, not to mention the hypocrisy. No shit I'm biased, It's not possible for someone to be completely unbiased. At least I can admit to it, If you're just going to accuse me of bias after me saying I'll defend Ronaldo fans if they make a good argument, I don't know what more I can do. Besides I haven't posted enough on this forum for you to make a such a sweeping judgement on me.
Losing the league every year should have come with that change of personnel. Messi's done pretty well in a transition period with a diminishing midfield (improving recently) and a change in Barcas style. CL requires more luck as does every cup competition. In the end though in Ronaldos case if your losing L every year even with the CL, that has to be taken into account.
"I mean if you basically want to discount winning"
Again. People don't and haven't done this. You said they did. You can go '
Simply pointing out I'm biased isn't enough, not to mention the hypocrisy. No shit I'm biased, It's not possible for someone to be completely unbiased. At least I can admit to it, If you're just going to accuse me of bias after me saying I'll defend Ronaldo fans if they make a good argument, I don't know what more I can do. Besides I haven't posted enough on this forum for you to make a such a sweeping judgement on me.
Losing the league every year should have come with that change of personnel. Messi's done pretty well in a transition period with a diminishing midfield (improving recently) and a change in Barcas style. CL requires more luck as does every cup competition. In the end though in Ronaldos case if your losing L every year even with the CL, that has to be taken into account.
So ronaldo winning is just down to luck? Okayyyy and yeah just because you said it I will take your word on it.
I love that Ronaldo is the one that has the luxury of having teammates bail him out despite the obvious fact Messi had better teammates that help him control the game and won 2 of his 3 Champions League titles playing with the best team in the history of the fecking sport and the other with Neymar and Suarez either side of him
Ronaldo is the one that had the luxury? Playing in the best team of all time... now that's a luxury. I guess in your mind it's a luxury to play with Eder instead of Higuain too, right?
No shit it's easier to show up more often when the team controls every single game against any team in the world. When the team is getting run over and completely dominated by the opposition then it's a bit harder to make a big difference. Welcome to football. It's easier to win Champions League titles when you have a teammate like Neymar scoring 7 goals in the last 5 games of the competition... having Gareth Bale play well for 30 minutes in the whole competition is not a luxury.
If Messi even got to the semifinals more often maybe he could afford to get injured and win the competition without playing... here's Ronaldo's record in the Champions League since he blew up at United.
2006/07: SF
2007/08: W
2008/09: F
2009/10: RO16
2010/11: SF
2011/12: SF
2012/13: SF
2013/14: W
2014/15: SF
2015/16: W
2016/17: W
2017/18: W
2018/19: Quarters vs Ajax
They get past Ajax and it's going to be the 12th CL semifinal he gets to in 13 years. In this period, Madrid didn't get to one semifinal without him, United got to one semifinal without him and Juve got to 2 semifinals without him. You'll still have people pretending it's easy to get there or that it's all luck and teammates bailing him out. Not every player can have the luxury of having the best set of teammates in the history of the sport that give him the best possible platform to dominate european football... but somehow it's Ronaldo that had the luxury of Ramos and Bale bailing him out rather than Ramos and Bale having had the luxury of playing with a player like Ronaldo who puts them in those situations to start with.
Bringing up the 2014 and 2016 CL finals in every post when you know damn well Ronaldo was injured in both matches and shouldn't have even played in 2014 is just awful. Both times they beat the Atletico team that knocked out Messi's Barcelona, last time Atletico lost a knockout match in Europe without facing Cristiano Ronaldo was in 2013, over 6 years ago. And you really believe that to be a coincidence? It's not like playing the style of football that a team with Ronaldo will play makes it harder for a defense like Atletico... no, it's because Ramos and Bale bail him out
United and Madrid were declining as Ronaldo jumped ship. United went to a CL final without him, had he stayed they wouldn't have made many more CL finals after 2012.
Madrid were playing on fumes last year, Ronaldo was an absolute ghost last year, had Salah not been injured it would be a different story.
Ronaldo has some of the highest scoring CL players in HISTORY as teammates. Benezema, Ramos, Marcelo is one of the highest scoring defenders.
And imagine bragging about Madrid beating Atletico when it took a 94th minute Ramos header (Madrid were just as stifled as Barca in that match) and then a missed Griezmann penalty in the 90 minutes in 2016 to seal the deal. They got it done, but it must be such a luxury to be injured MULTIPLE times and still get trophies for it. It happened to Messi in 2006, but for Ronaldo to keep getting them despite being a complete passenger in the finals in 2014, 2016 (both CL and the Euro) and 2018 is something that may be unprecedented in sports history.
I can't think of any other #1 player for a team who can be absent in so many finals and still come away with the title. Ronaldo is a damn good player but possibly the most fortunate footballer in history.
Madrid didn't replace him at all, when Ramos was missing the second leg against Juventus Madrid nearly choked without him. When he missed the second leg against Ajax they conceded 4 times.
Had Ronaldo stayed Madrid would've been far more competitive, but the team is on its last legs. Hence the huge retooling they'll be doing over the summer. They were due for a long time now.
I respect opinions, but I just can’t fathom how anyone can watch both players and decide that Ronaldo is a better footballer than Messi.
He’s an incredible goal scorer but that’s as far as I’d go with him. Messi is an incredible goalscorer, dribbler and passer. He’s a joke.
He’s an incredible goal scorer but that’s as far as I’d go with him. Messi is an incredible goalscorer, dribbler and passer. He’s a joke.
Yeah for me the difference is what they can do with the ball at their feet which is true benchmark of a footballers genius. Messi is light years ahead of Ronaldo with the ball in dribbling, touch, passing, vision etc.
Ronaldo is more athletic stronger, maybe faster and a better header of the ball. But that's mostly it imo.
It's so obvious that's practically absurd that we have to explain it time after time.
Did you not see Madrid play Champions League football for the past 3 years? Liverpool were on top, Madrid were winning that even with Salah on the pitch though, they'd have found a way to grab a goal out of their asses. That's always how it went.
They went past Dortmund, Tottenham, PSG, Juventus, Bayern and Liverpool while playing proactive football yet you want me to believe they were actually not a great team... just got incredibly lucky. Yeah right.
Right... they're on their last legs despite the fact that Ramos and Modric are still their 2 best players and the other guys haven't even got to 30 yet. Brilliant.
The starting eleven that played the Champions League finals will still be there next season.
You can't think of any other #1 players that was absent in so many finals because there isn't any other #1 player who's been to so many finals... he was injured for 3 of the biggest finals in his career.
He fully deserved to get there in the first place. Once you get to the final, it's a one off game. Anything can happen.
Karim Benzema, the CL legend. Lucky Ronaldo. Replace those 3 for Pique, Alba and Suarez and what do you think happens?
Messi didn't play the quarters, semis and finals in 2006
You have to be stupid to try to compare the two. Why the hell would it be a luxury to be able to have a normal 6/10 or 7/10 game and win a one-off match of football in which they're favourites in the first place? Why would they need him to have a 10/10 game to win the match? Barcelona certainly didn't need it if they actually managed to get to the finals. Difference is that Messi's played in 3 Champions League finals while Ronaldo's played in 6. Madrid were better than Atletico both in 2014 and 2016, Barcelona weren't. Their setup played to Atletico's hands. If you think it's luck or an incredible coincidence that for over 6 years now no team has won a knockout tie vs Atletico in Europe without having Cristiano Ronaldo then I don't know what to tell you.
When Ramos didn't play vs Juve, who pulled them through? When Ramos buried Madrid over and over again in 2013 vs United who pulled them through? When Sane was tearing Marcelo and Ramos a new asshole who pulled them through? when that defense was getting ripped to shreds in Wlfsburg who pulled them through? How many times has Ramos fecked up defensively only for Ronaldo to make up for it? How many goals has Sergio Ramos cost Real Madrid over the years?
8 straight years making the semifinals of the Champions League. Eight. Ronaldo's gone and they go out to Ajax in the round of 16. Where were Bale and Ramos? Where was Modric?
Exactly the point i was making. It was the only award at the time that considered south Americans and Europeans and at the same time had good recognition. Platini won this more than Diego. The point was that you cant judge who was better by who won more individual awards.
Furthermore, to coincide with the 60th anniversary of the Ballon d'Or in 2016, France Football published a reevaluation of the awards presented before 1995, when only European players were eligible to win the award. 12 out of the 39 Ballons d'Or presented during this time period would have been awarded to South American players; in addition to Pelé and Diego Maradona, Garrincha, Mario Kempes, and Romário were retrospectively recognized as worthy winners.
Diego would have won just 2 (86 and 90. Pele would have won 7).
These 2 would have still put him behind Van Basten and Platinis 3 each.
Despite this, Diego would have still been seen as the far better/ greater player of the 3.
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