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Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Spot on
I havent said anything about Ronaldo so not sure where that judging is coming from? I was debating the fact that the CL isnt far better than the league.
If everyone has their own interpretation then whoever is the best player is subjective (which it obviously is anyway), and therefore you cannot say with any authority that Ronaldo is the best Real Madrid player (ex-Real Madrid player, actually).
Someone could say that they think Luka Modric is the best Real Madrid player. Obviously Modric is never going to score as many goals as Ronaldo, but equally Ronaldo doesn't contribute as much as Modric elsewhere. And if it all comes down to effectiveness being based on interpretation, then no-one can ever say otherwise.
In fact, this is an extremely poorly founded argument that you're making because you have to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi, and therefore you have to pretend that what everyone else knows to be true:
...that Messi has a much more complete skillset than Ronaldo and contributes far more to games in general, somehow doesn't matter. It's only Messi who performs like a midfielder, winger and forward rolled into one because he's a phenomenon. That's why Mascherano said the following:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mascherano-messi-three-players-one
Ultimately, anyone can believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi. This cannot be literally disproven. But you can never credibly say Ronaldo is a better and more complete footballer than Messi. Because this can, to some extent, be measured statistically, and Messi comes out on top by some distance.
But that's no disgrace because Messi is a unique player who comes out on top statistically against everyone. That's why he's the best player around today by a considerable distance, and can only be compared with the greatest ever players (all of whom, I believe he is better than, but that's more debatable).
Everyone who is objective and understands football already knows this anyway. I mean, you'd have to be an idiot, completely delusional, or utterly biased to claim that Ronaldo is, or has ever been, as good and complete a footballer as Messi. Let alone today.
If everyone has their own interpretation then whoever is the best player is subjective (which it obviously is anyway), and therefore you cannot say with any authority that Ronaldo is the best Real Madrid player (ex-Real Madrid player, actually).
Someone could say that they think Luka Modric is the best Real Madrid player. Obviously Modric is never going to score as many goals as Ronaldo, but equally Ronaldo doesn't contribute as much as Modric elsewhere. And if it all comes down to effectiveness being based on interpretation, then no-one can ever say otherwise.
In fact, this is an extremely poorly founded argument that you're making because you have to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi, and therefore you have to pretend that what everyone else knows to be true:
...that Messi has a much more complete skillset than Ronaldo and contributes far more to games in general, somehow doesn't matter. It's only Messi who performs like a midfielder, winger and forward rolled into one because he's a phenomenon. That's why Mascherano said the following:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mascherano-messi-three-players-one
Ultimately, anyone can believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi. This cannot be literally disproven. But you can never credibly say Ronaldo is a better and more complete footballer than Messi. Because this can, to some extent, be measured statistically, and Messi comes out on top by some distance.
But that's no disgrace because Messi is a unique player who comes out on top statistically against everyone. That's why he's the best player around today by a considerable distance, and can only be compared with the greatest ever players (all of whom, I believe he is better than, but that's more debatable).
Everyone who is objective and understands football already knows this anyway. I mean, you'd have to be an idiot, completely delusional, or utterly biased to claim that Ronaldo is, or has ever been, as good and complete a footballer as Messi. Let alone today.
The fact that those words were actually written after somebody put some thought into it is incredible, nevermind by someone who argued Gareth Bale is a better football player than Cristiano Ronaldo.
If you believe that to measure a player you judge their goal contributions and then what they add everywhere else on the pitch (which to you is how good they are technically on the ball) while completely ignoring literally every other facet in which a player can affect the game for their team it shows you have absolutely no understanding at all of how the game of football works. The holy trinity of football: scoring, assisting and dribbling... who cares about the rest?
The best part is the people giving such a big importance to dribbling in this thread don’t care at all that every time Messi gets man marked properly his ability to get past players gets neutralized more often than not these days and his impact on the game greatly reduced. It’s only going to get worse as he gets slower and slower too but apparently you guys deluded yourselves into thinking he’s going to turn into a number 8 or a Pirlo style midfielder despite that being the most nonsensical idea in football history since you’ve once again arbitrarily decided that technical ability is the only necessary attribute for a football player.
Let’s see how he gets on with age but there’s a reason the static number 10 is pretty much dead in european football and there’s a reason all teams use the exact same gameplan against Barcelona in the CL and it works more often than not. Good luck trying to find space between the lines by standing there without adding any dynamic to the team both offensively or defensively. I mean, it won’t be a problem for him at all if the midfielders are somehow the ones getting the blame for not being able to find players that don’t move and are being man marked throughout the game but it will be a problem for the team.
But who cares about that? Rating players is all about goals, assists and dribbling instead of how those happen and how that impacts the team. Turns out looking more impressive on the ball is more important than how effective you are in the game.
What a load of complete waffle!
We've already looked at Messi's statistics for last season, and he literally put numbers on the board that no-one else in Europe even touched.
Literally no-one else can do that. No-one else that I've ever seen in the roughly 36 years that I've been watching football has ever been able to do that. No-one that is around today can touch that. It's not even close. Ozil can make the assists, de Bruyne can make the passes, Hazard can do the dribbles, Ronaldo can score the goals. No-one can put it all together in one package, at that level. Not even close.
To sit there and say "Messi gets neutralized more often than not" is a complete joke, which absolutely flies in the face of literally all reason and evidence.
I've made this point before, but it's made here as well:
https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-gossip/397578/favourite-player-heatmap-lionel-messi/
Messi ultimately won the European Golden Shoe, while having the heatmap of a midfielder, and contributing more to the general play than any midfielder in Europe. This is staggering and unbelievable. It is an unequalled achievement in world football. No-one else can do this. No-one else has done this. I suspect no-one else ever will do this.
But people will still come on here and go "Ronaldo scored one more goal, so he's better".
So what you're arguing here is that Messi isn't a better player because of something that has yet to happen, which might hypothetically happen in the future. Great argument.
And, as we know, Messi is the far more effective player statistically. Over the last 10 years, he has been by far the most effective player in world football. Any kind of statistical analysis of any sort that has even been put together always puts Messi on top, season after season, and usually by a considerable distance.
Last year was his best ever season in terms of his overall contribution. His consistency and level of performance were unbelievable. But because Barcelona had one bad game against Roma, somehow Messi is completely to blame for this. And this is a Barcelona team that he has carried time and time again. This is not a great Barcelona team. Yet Messi has put numbers on the board and performances on the field that are at least as good as anything he's ever done before, even at an advanced age, and in a worse team.
It's quite unbelievable that you won't acknowledge this and instead want to pretend that he is now somehow "easily neutralized"!
I haven't even gone down the route of putting up all the videos of Messi's greatest passes, Messi's greatest dribbles, Messi's greatest individual goals, Messi's best 50 goals, Messi versus no space...none of which any other player can come close to equalling. Even just looking at the raw statistics (which should favour Ronaldo, as he plays as an outright forward), Messi is well ahead. If you look at something deeper like overall contribution to play, Messi is absolute country mile ahead of any other player, and shouldn't even be compared to Ronaldo.
It's almost incomprehensible that you could even contemplate for one second that Ronaldo makes more contribution to the general play than Messi.
What a load of complete waffle!
We've already looked at Messi's statistics for last season, and he literally put numbers on the board that no-one else in Europe even touched.
Literally no-one else can do that. No-one else that I've ever seen in the roughly 36 years that I've been watching football has ever been able to do that. No-one that is around today can touch that. It's not even close. Ozil can make the assists, de Bruyne can make the passes, Hazard can do the dribbles, Ronaldo can score the goals. No-one can put it all together in one package, at that level. Not even close.
To sit there and say "Messi gets neutralized more often than not" is a complete joke, which absolutely flies in the face of literally all reason and evidence.
I've made this point before, but it's made here as well:
https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-gossip/397578/favourite-player-heatmap-lionel-messi/
Messi ultimately won the European Golden Shoe, while having the heatmap of a midfielder, and contributing more to the general play than any midfielder in Europe. This is staggering and unbelievable. It is an unequalled achievement in world football. No-one else can do this. No-one else has done this. I suspect no-one else ever will do this.
But people will still come on here and go "Ronaldo scored one more goal, so he's better".
So what you're arguing here is that Messi isn't a better player because of something that has yet to happen, which might hypothetically happen in the future. Great argument.
And, as we know, Messi is the far more effective player statistically. Over the last 10 years, he has been by far the most effective player in world football. Any kind of statistical analysis of any sort that has even been put together always puts Messi on top, season after season, and usually by a considerable distance.
Last year was his best ever season in terms of his overall contribution. His consistency and level of performance were unbelievable. But because Barcelona had one bad game against Roma, somehow Messi is completely to blame for this. And this is a Barcelona team that he has carried time and time again. This is not a great Barcelona team. Yet Messi has put numbers on the board and performances on the field that are at least as good as anything he's ever done before, even at an advanced age, and in a worse team.
It's quite unbelievable that you won't acknowledge this and instead want to pretend that he is now somehow "easily neutralized"!
I haven't even gone down the route of putting up all the videos of Messi's greatest passes, Messi's greatest dribbles, Messi's greatest individual goals, Messi's best 50 goals, Messi versus no space...none of which any other player can come close to equalling. Even just looking at the raw statistics (which should favour Ronaldo, as he plays as an outright forward), Messi is well ahead. If you look at something deeper like overall contribution to play, Messi is absolute country mile ahead of any other player, and shouldn't even be compared to Ronaldo.
It's almost incomprehensible that you could even contemplate for one second that Ronaldo makes more contribution to the general play than Messi.
Of course he leads in those categories when he plays 1000 more minutes than anyone near his quality for fecks sake. You use raw numbers because you don’t even care what the truth is. Saying last season was Messi’s best in terms of overall contribution is insane, the problem is that your ‘overall contribution’ is just things Messi’s good at while ignoring things he’s not good that. You have no clue what ‘overall contribution’ is.
Neymar before his injuries was scoring more than Messi, assisting more, creating more chances, having more key passes, all of that bullshit... turns out football isn’t played on a spreadsheet.
Writing 1000 lines per post while repeating the same thing over and over again does not make it better by the way. Everything you wrote there you had already written in the first comment...
Don't you people have jobs?
Saying the same thing about me and Gareth Bale over and over again does not make it better, particularly as we've already discussed it, but it doesn't stop you from doing it, does it? Some might call that quite childish.
What is Messi not good at exactly? He's the best passer in the world, or at the very least he's up there with the best in the world. He's one of the best dribblers ever. He has scored 620 goals from all over the field, while often not playing as a forward. When he did play as a central striker, he smashed all of the single-season scoring records. He contributes vast numbers of assists and key passes. He goes past more players than anyone else. He scores with both feet, he scores loads of different types of goals, and just broke the La Liga free-kick scoring record.
The only thing I can think of which you might reasonably expect him to be better at is taking penalties. Apart from that, you couldn't possibly expect one player to produce what he has.
And indeed no player ever has. Literally, no player has ever put the number on the board and the performances on the field that Messi has produced. Forget about Ronaldo doing it, because that will never happen.
If you can't recognise and acknowledge this then you are simply incapable of being objective.
You certainly come across as objective.If everyone has their own interpretation then whoever is the best player is subjective (which it obviously is anyway), and therefore you cannot say with any authority that Ronaldo is the best Real Madrid player (ex-Real Madrid player, actually).
Someone could say that they think Luka Modric is the best Real Madrid player. Obviously Modric is never going to score as many goals as Ronaldo, but equally Ronaldo doesn't contribute as much as Modric elsewhere. And if it all comes down to effectiveness being based on interpretation, then no-one can ever say otherwise.
In fact, this is an extremely poorly founded argument that you're making because you have to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi, and therefore you have to pretend that what everyone else knows to be true:
...that Messi has a much more complete skillset than Ronaldo and contributes far more to games in general, somehow doesn't matter. It's only Messi who performs like a midfielder, winger and forward rolled into one because he's a phenomenon. That's why Mascherano said the following:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/mascherano-messi-three-players-one
Ultimately, anyone can believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi. This cannot be literally disproven. But you can never credibly say Ronaldo is a better and more complete footballer than Messi. Because this can, to some extent, be measured statistically, and Messi comes out on top by some distance.
But that's no disgrace because Messi is a unique player who comes out on top statistically against everyone. That's why he's the best player around today by a considerable distance, and can only be compared with the greatest ever players (all of whom, I believe he is better than, but that's more debatable).
Everyone who is objective and understands football already knows this anyway. I mean, you'd have to be an idiot, completely delusional, or utterly biased to claim that Ronaldo is, or has ever been, as good and complete a footballer as Messi. Let alone today.
Football is an intangible sport. And goal records are among the weakest metrics out there to judge a player on. Goals make up a tiny amount of a football match. In fact at least 90% of a game consists of passing, defending, dribbling, runs, chance creation and so on and only a very small fraction is actual scoring. And even then you actually have to differentiate between the difficulty of the goal, how much the player contributed to the creation of the opportunity and so forth. And every effort to make football more tangible statistically through things like successful dribblings, key passes, chance creation, pass completion, forward passes, successful passes in the final third, preassists, packing rate, goal impact and so on - statistics that are much more though through than raw goal numbers - gets ridiculed by Ronaldo fans in here because it simply doesn't fit their narrative. The amazing thing is that Messi absolutely excells in these areas and still manages to stay comparable to Ronaldo in terms of goal scoring although the latter completely adjusted his game to this metric and therefore sacrificed a lot of what made him one hell of a player to begin with.
The funny thing is also that Messi gets criticized for "shrivelling into his shell" (still dribbling and creating his ass of in those games) while Ronaldo was downright invesible in the most important matches this season with the only difference that his team stepped up and got him out of this mess.
Honestly, who can't see past goal statistics is simply clueless regarding football. Sometimes I think scoring that much is actually Messi's curse regarding his legacy. A player like him should never be reduced to goals yet he was ever since this tiresome debate started because it was the easiest, most lazy way to compare both players.
Your problem is that you only care about the parts of football Messi is great at while completely ignoring everything else. The fact you have to ask what parts of football Messi isn’t great at is hilarious... football isn’t scoring, assisting and dribbling for fecks sake.
He’s a completely irrelevant player in the air, 0 contribution on defensive set pieces and 0 threat in the air on aerial set pieces. Along with meaning he’s absolutely terrible at any hold up play, his lack of ability in the air means the teams he’s playing for can’t rely on crosses and often have 0 variation or adaptability to their game, his movements without the ball are predictable and easy to be man marked which has been happening in a lot of games forcing him to come to midfield to get the ball. He’s not a leader inside the pitch, football is a human game and Messi is below average on communicating and motivating teammates. He often looks like he doesn’t even care when the game isn’t going well. He’s one footed, it’s true he still scores a lot with his right but it’s still true he often forces things to his left foot when he wouldn’t need to if he had a better right foot.
He’s not an adaptable player, he’s very suited to a possession style of play and doesn’t have the speed or power over large distances to be a great counter attacking player. Players like Di Maria or Dembele are different and they’ve suffered because of it when playing next to Messi since they aren’t able to play in transition as often or cross as often. To get the best out of Messi, transition play and crosses are minimized, teams take less risks and try to get control of the ball. That’s good sometimes and bad some other times but it means the team becomes too one dimensional and easier to stop.
He’s nonexistent defensively, he runs 7 kms per game... modern number 10s have to work for the team, he doesn’t which gives a lot of extra work to Suarez and the midfield. He has the advantage over any other attacking player ever of being able to run as little as he does which means he’s fresher to make better decisions and dribble past players.
Finally, for a lot of these reasons he’s not a big game player suited to thrive in knockout football which is a big shame given that’s how the big trophies in this sport are decided.
So yes, Messi isn’t perfect. Like no football player in history is. You can agree or disagree with some points of what I argued, please for the love of God let’s not get into that my point is simple. You do not get to judge football players by only judging the things Messi’s great at while ignoring everything else.
No, they get ridiculed because they’re complete garbage just like you’d know if you knew how they got measured. Goal and assists statistic are 2 of the very few football statistics where we can actually take something away from it, which is why they’re the most used by everyone in the sport. There is a reason there is not a single top football club interested in the statistics you care so much about and that reason is they’re complete nonsense you use to make a point which could be made varidly without those crap stats supporting it.
Statistics like pass accuracy or dribbling success are not only badly measured but they are completely dependent on many other factors besides the player himself.
Players’ impact on the game matters, football is played on a football pitch, not on a spreadsheet where you only count what you believe to be important, you count it wrong and then on top of it you remove it of all context. It would be bad enough if it was a good spreadsheet but whoscored and the likes are obviously trash as you can see if you watch some games and then look into the ratings they gave to the players.
If taglines are careers...
Maybe he's trying to audition for the role.
Modric average rating (whoscored) is around 7.1 and Ronaldo average rating (whoscored) is around 8 last season in Real. It’s not even close.
Sometimes it can reach a ridiculous level. Some fans have no shame, endless debates for their favoritesI've stayed out of this thread for a while so I'm sure it's been discussed, but how does Peyroteo justify Madrid selling Ronaldo, despite him being 'the best player in the world'?
£80m is a lot of money but it doesn't buy you too much these days, it's basically the same price as Pogba/Lukaku/Bale.
£80m is a lot of money but it doesn't buy you too much these days, it's basically the same price as Pogba/Lukaku/Bale.
Isn't really that odd. Perez obviously doesn't like Ronaldo that much for whatever reason and wants RM to move on from the CR7 era. Taking in consideration his wages, age and Ronaldo asking for a transfer, 100M seems like a reasonable price.
He’s 34 in about six months, it made sense to let him go and Real are usually ruthless like this.
Yeah I mean, I know all that because I see Ronaldo for what he is - a very good finisher in a team good at creating chances for him but ultimately replaceable, however many of you argue that he's the best player in the world, better than Messi and some even say the best ever and as such, you'd think be indispensable - so why would Real sell him for a relative pittance? Even if he is 33, a year or two of someone that is meant to still be the best player in the world and a supreme athlete would be worth more than that to a club as rich as Real.
I guess we'll see next season whether it was good business or not - then again Real did come 3rd with Ronaldo in the team although I can't see them winning the champions league again, surely their luck must have run out by now.
I guess we'll see next season whether it was good business or not - then again Real did come 3rd with Ronaldo in the team although I can't see them winning the champions league again, surely their luck must have run out by now.
like they're going to change the other persons mind, anyway.I think you are underplaying him here. I do believe it's less hard to replace him now than it was a couple years ago but how many players can produce a similiar output? And how many are available of that list? You sound like RM just needs to buy someone like Icardi and it's business as usual.
I don't think Icardi could replace him, I think he is the best pure goalscorer in the world and his ability in the air couldn't be replaced like for like, perhaps someone like Kane could but up similar numbers but I'm not sure. Hypothetically, I suspect they could apportion out the goals more evenly and actually be a better balanced team with a creative player like Hazard playing from the left, with a fit Bale playing the same role as Ronaldo but from the right/up front - Ronaldo and Bale are too similar in their instincts to take up both wing spots at this point in their careers imo
Aye, I wish I could get paid. But when I think long and hard about it, I'm barely this passionate about myself, let alone spending the time to idolize ad defend someone else, now matter how big his star.
Because Perez is an idiot, the same one who thought Makelele was useless and sold him to create Real's worst run in the CL for decades.
He asked to leave and he more than earned the right to make that decision himself. How do you justify United letting him go 10 years ago?
I don’t know if you’re actually aware of the values but he’s nearly 34 years old with no resale value and he was just sold for 100 million plus 60 million per year. If you think it’s a low amount of money you’re out of your mind.
You’re unlikely to ever see a deal like this ever again. It was the 6th biggest fee in football history for a 34 year old and you believe the numbers show he’s replaceable and not that important. What the feck.
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The Ronaldo vs Messi debate is a bit weird. If you take into consideration both of their careers and the impact both had in their respective clubs and NT, the margin is actually pretty thin between the two. Does it even matter who is the better dribbler, or who can score from 40 yards or score with the head?
Both had key roles for their clubs success and both are the reason why RM and Barça achieved what they achieved in the last decade.
I would take Ronaldo over Messi any day of the week tbh, and it's not because I think he is way better than Messi or some bs like that. Some people like the "magic" Messi brings to the game, I rather see a player that has the balls to bring the team up when everything seems to be against them.
It's a matter of taste, not skill.
Both had key roles for their clubs success and both are the reason why RM and Barça achieved what they achieved in the last decade.
I would take Ronaldo over Messi any day of the week tbh, and it's not because I think he is way better than Messi or some bs like that. Some people like the "magic" Messi brings to the game, I rather see a player that has the balls to bring the team up when everything seems to be against them.
It's a matter of taste, not skill.
Ahh the patented peyroteo WHAT THE.. - reserved only for when he's defensive about a subject he can't justify! Not only do I think he is replaceable (i'm on the fence personally) and not that important, his employers did - the most successful team in club football. There is no way Ronaldo wanted to leave unless he was pushed/told he wouldn't get a new contract/told he wouldn't be a regular starter. Juve is a great team but it's a step down, it was always Ronaldo's dream to go to Madrid (that's why he left United) and he said many times he wanted to finish his career there.
I'd contest the resale value point, I reckon Juve could sell him in 2 years to some Chinese/MLS team for £50m unless he falls off a cliff. It's not a low amount of money but it is for a player that is the best in the world, no matter what your age, which is what you claim.
Also the Makelele transfer was during the Galactico era and he was sold to make way for a more glamorous player - Ronaldo is the most glamorous player out there so it's not the same, plus Madrid are a little more considered and well run in their transfer policy so it's not analogous anyway.
For what it's worth I think it might be a mistake for Madrid, depending who they bring in and how they set up. Ronaldo is still a guaranteed goalscorer (for at least 6 months) and you're not going to get a better one for under 88m
Updating this because why not.
Please remember the numbers of assists somehow depend a lot from source to source.
*************
Assists in the CL:
Messi 35 in 128 apps (0.27 assists/app)
Ronaldo 43 in 157 apps (0.27 assists/app)
Goals scored in CL:
Messi 106 in 128 apps (0.82 goals/app)
Ronaldo 121 in 157 apps (0.77 goals/app)
Messi has 66 goals in the group stages (62%) and 40 (37%) in the knockout stages.
Ronaldo has 61 goals in the group stages (50%) and 60 (49%) in the knockout stages.
Round of 16: Messi 24 goals (22%) Ronaldo 20 goals (16%)
Quarter-Finals: Messi 10 goals (9%) Ronaldo 23 goals (19%)
Semi-Finals: Messi 4 goals (3%) Ronaldo 13 goals (10%)
Finals: Messi 2 goals (1%) Ronaldo 4 goals (3%)
Messi goals:
Arsenal 9
Celtic Glasgow 8
AC Milan 8
Bayer Leverkusen 7
Ajax 6
Manchester City 6
Bayern Munchen 4
Panathinaikos 4
Paris Saint-Germain 4
PSV 4
Spartak Moskva 4
APOEL Nicosia 3
Chelsea 3
Kobenhavn 3
Lyon 3
Plzen 3
Shakhtar Donetsk 3
Stuttgart 3
Basel 2
BATE Borisov 2
Dynamo Kyiv 2
Juventus 2
Manchester United 2
Real Madrid 2
Roma 2
Tottenham 2
Borussia Monchengladbach 1
Glasgow Rangers 1
Olympiakos 1
Sporting CP 1
Werder Bremen 1
England 22 (Arsenal 9, Manchester City 6, Chelsea 3, Manchester United 2, Tottenham 2)
Germany 16 (Bayer Leverkusen 7, Bayern Munchen 4, Stuttgart 3, Borussia Monchengladbach 1, Werder Bremen 1)
Italy 12 (AC Milan 8, Juventus 2, Roma 2)
Netherlands 10 (Ajax 6, PSV 4)
Scotland 9 (Celtic Glasgow 8, Glasgow Rangers 1)
France 7 (Paris Saint-Germain 4, Lyon 3)
Greece 5 (Panathinaikos 4, Olympiakos 1)
Ukraine 5 (Shakhtar Donetsk 3, Dynamo Kyiv 2)
Russia 4 (Spartak Moskva 4)
Cyprus 3 (APOEL Nicosia 3)
Czech Republic 3 (Plzen 3)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Belarus 2 (BATE Borisov 2)
Spain 2 (Real Madrid 2)
Switzerland 2 (Basel 2)
Portugal 1 (Sporting CP 1)
Ronaldo goals:
Juventus 10
Bayern Munchen 9
Ajax 7
Borussia Dortmund 7
Schalke 04 7
APOEL Nicosia 6
Galatasaray 6
Malmo 6
Roma 5
Shakhtar Donetsk 5
Atlético Madrid 4
Lyon 4
Marseille 4
Tottenham 4
CSKA Moskva 3
Dynamo Kyiv 3
Kobenhavn 3
Manchester United 3
Paris Saint-Germain 3
Sporting CP 3
Wolfsburg 3
Arsenal 2
Basel 2
Ludogorets 2
AC Milan 2
Zurich 2
Auxerre 1
Chelsea 1
Inter 1
Liverpool 1
Manchester City 1
FC Porto 1
Germany 26 (Bayern Munchen 9, Borussia Dortmund 7, Schalke 04 7, Wolfsburg 3)
Italy 18 (Juventus 10, Roma 5, AC Milan 2, Inter 1)
England 12 (Tottenham 4, Arsenal 2, Manchester United 3, Chelsea 1, Liverpool 1, Manchester City 1)
France 12 (Lyon 4, Marseille 4, Paris Saint-Germain 3, Auxerre 1)
Ukraine 8 (Shakhtar Donetsk 5, Dynamo Kyiv 3)
Netherlands 7 (Ajax 7)
Cyprus 6 (APOEL Nicosia 6)
Sweden 6 (Malmo 6)
Turkey 6 (Galatasaray 6)
Portugal 4 (Sporting CP 3, FC Porto 1)
Spain 4 (Atlético Madrid 4)
Switzerland 4 (Basel 2, Zurich 2)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Russia 3 (CSKA Moskva 3)
Bulgaria 2 (Ludogorets 2)
Please remember the numbers of assists somehow depend a lot from source to source.
*************
Assists in the CL:
Messi 35 in 128 apps (0.27 assists/app)
Ronaldo 43 in 157 apps (0.27 assists/app)
Goals scored in CL:
Messi 106 in 128 apps (0.82 goals/app)
Ronaldo 121 in 157 apps (0.77 goals/app)
Messi has 66 goals in the group stages (62%) and 40 (37%) in the knockout stages.
Ronaldo has 61 goals in the group stages (50%) and 60 (49%) in the knockout stages.
Round of 16: Messi 24 goals (22%) Ronaldo 20 goals (16%)
Quarter-Finals: Messi 10 goals (9%) Ronaldo 23 goals (19%)
Semi-Finals: Messi 4 goals (3%) Ronaldo 13 goals (10%)
Finals: Messi 2 goals (1%) Ronaldo 4 goals (3%)
Messi goals:
Arsenal 9
Celtic Glasgow 8
AC Milan 8
Bayer Leverkusen 7
Ajax 6
Manchester City 6
Bayern Munchen 4
Panathinaikos 4
Paris Saint-Germain 4
PSV 4
Spartak Moskva 4
APOEL Nicosia 3
Chelsea 3
Kobenhavn 3
Lyon 3
Plzen 3
Shakhtar Donetsk 3
Stuttgart 3
Basel 2
BATE Borisov 2
Dynamo Kyiv 2
Juventus 2
Manchester United 2
Real Madrid 2
Roma 2
Tottenham 2
Borussia Monchengladbach 1
Glasgow Rangers 1
Olympiakos 1
Sporting CP 1
Werder Bremen 1
England 22 (Arsenal 9, Manchester City 6, Chelsea 3, Manchester United 2, Tottenham 2)
Germany 16 (Bayer Leverkusen 7, Bayern Munchen 4, Stuttgart 3, Borussia Monchengladbach 1, Werder Bremen 1)
Italy 12 (AC Milan 8, Juventus 2, Roma 2)
Netherlands 10 (Ajax 6, PSV 4)
Scotland 9 (Celtic Glasgow 8, Glasgow Rangers 1)
France 7 (Paris Saint-Germain 4, Lyon 3)
Greece 5 (Panathinaikos 4, Olympiakos 1)
Ukraine 5 (Shakhtar Donetsk 3, Dynamo Kyiv 2)
Russia 4 (Spartak Moskva 4)
Cyprus 3 (APOEL Nicosia 3)
Czech Republic 3 (Plzen 3)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Belarus 2 (BATE Borisov 2)
Spain 2 (Real Madrid 2)
Switzerland 2 (Basel 2)
Portugal 1 (Sporting CP 1)
Ronaldo goals:
Juventus 10
Bayern Munchen 9
Ajax 7
Borussia Dortmund 7
Schalke 04 7
APOEL Nicosia 6
Galatasaray 6
Malmo 6
Roma 5
Shakhtar Donetsk 5
Atlético Madrid 4
Lyon 4
Marseille 4
Tottenham 4
CSKA Moskva 3
Dynamo Kyiv 3
Kobenhavn 3
Manchester United 3
Paris Saint-Germain 3
Sporting CP 3
Wolfsburg 3
Arsenal 2
Basel 2
Ludogorets 2
AC Milan 2
Zurich 2
Auxerre 1
Chelsea 1
Inter 1
Liverpool 1
Manchester City 1
FC Porto 1
Germany 26 (Bayern Munchen 9, Borussia Dortmund 7, Schalke 04 7, Wolfsburg 3)
Italy 18 (Juventus 10, Roma 5, AC Milan 2, Inter 1)
England 12 (Tottenham 4, Arsenal 2, Manchester United 3, Chelsea 1, Liverpool 1, Manchester City 1)
France 12 (Lyon 4, Marseille 4, Paris Saint-Germain 3, Auxerre 1)
Ukraine 8 (Shakhtar Donetsk 5, Dynamo Kyiv 3)
Netherlands 7 (Ajax 7)
Cyprus 6 (APOEL Nicosia 6)
Sweden 6 (Malmo 6)
Turkey 6 (Galatasaray 6)
Portugal 4 (Sporting CP 3, FC Porto 1)
Spain 4 (Atlético Madrid 4)
Switzerland 4 (Basel 2, Zurich 2)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Russia 3 (CSKA Moskva 3)
Bulgaria 2 (Ludogorets 2)
Ronaldo's stats after the group stages are something else. He is Mr. Champions League.
Ronaldo has:
-Most Goals in a single CL campaign (17) [next best is still him with 16 & 15]
-Most Goals in the CL group stage in one campaign
-Most Goals in a CL calendar year
-Most headed Goals in CL history
-Most Free kicks in CL history
-Most Hat-tricks in CL history
-Most Penalties in CL history
-Most Goals against a single opposition in CL history
-Most away Goals in CL history
-Most home Goals in CL history
-Most seasons as top-scorer (7)
-Most consecutive seasons as topscorer [12/13; 13/14; 14/15; 15/16; 16;17 & 17;18].
- Most seasons of scoring 10 or more goals (the next best person has only done it 3 times compared to him - 6)
-Most wins in CL history
-Most stadiums scored in in UCL history
-Most assists in CL history
-Most KO stage Goals in CL history
-Most QF Goals in UCL history
-Most semi-final Goals in UCL history
-Most final goals in CL history
-All-time topscorer
-Most UEFA Champions League Titles
-Only player to score a hat-trick in consecutive KO stage games
-Only player to score in all 6 group stage games.
-Most consecutive games scored in (11)
- First player to score 3 hat-tricks in a single CL season
-Only player is to have scored in 3 UEFA CL finals.
*he didn’t score in his first 26 games in the competition.
This thread back on the front page... 
https://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Seri...gruppo-meglio-real-madrid-3101123990664.shtml
"Can we say you miss Messi?" Ronaldo: "No, maybe he misses me. I played in England, Spain, Italy, Portugal, while he is always been in Spain. Maybe he needs me more than I need him. But I would like him to come to Italy. Accept the challenge like me. But if he is happy there, I respect it."
"Can we say you miss Messi?" Ronaldo: "No, maybe he misses me. I played in England, Spain, Italy, Portugal, while he is always been in Spain. Maybe he needs me more than I need him. But I would like him to come to Italy. Accept the challenge like me. But if he is happy there, I respect it."
Accept the challenge of moving to a smaller club in a weaker league?
He's joking as it was a stupid question.
After saying that, he answers it seriously: "He's a fantastic player, a great guy but I don't miss playing in the same league as him. This is my new life and I'm happy"
It will inevitably be taken seriously by a lot of people though, he should be more careful before saying things like that.
After saying that, he answers it seriously: "He's a fantastic player, a great guy but I don't miss playing in the same league as him. This is my new life and I'm happy"
It will inevitably be taken seriously by a lot of people though, he should be more careful before saying things like that.
Should have ended the non-serious part with: I am just Messi-ing with you hehe.
I'll accept the thread ban now.
For me, Cristiano Ronaldo will always be the greatest ever...but I've got to give it to messi, he's the greatest pure dribbler I've seen, and though I may not be a fan of it because he doesn't use flicks and tricks which turn me on, he's the greatest pure dribbler.
He's only second to Ronaldo, for me and he has totally earned the right to be mentioned among the pantheon of few footballers regarded as the greatests.
I'd certainly try to watch all his dribbling highlights in due time
He's only second to Ronaldo, for me and he has totally earned the right to be mentioned among the pantheon of few footballers regarded as the greatests.
I'd certainly try to watch all his dribbling highlights in due time
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