Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
wub1234 said:
I know you're supposed to respect the players of the past, and all that. But if you go back and watch videos of the 1958 World Cup that Pele played in (or even the 1966 World Cup that England won) the standard is dreadful. I know the ball is different, but realistically if either Messi or Ronaldo went back and played at that time then they would be the best in the world by a country mile. I mean, the standard is sh*te. The 1970 Brazil team was the first team, in my opinion, to play anything approaching modern football, and consequently they won every game in that tournament.

I'm sure Pele would adapt to some extent if he played in the modern game, but if you look at his technical ability and what he actually did on the pitch at that time, to say that he's a better player than Messi or Ronaldo is laughable, in my opinion. And I personally think Ronaldo is a bit overrated at present, despite being a brilliant goalscorer, but I shudder to think how many he would have scored in the 1950s.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Sorry but that's as stupid a post as you'll ever see.

You can't compare eras. Pele would be an absolute monster if he was playing now, just like Messi or Ronaldo would still be great if they were born in 1950. The footballing ability they all have is consistent across eras, but everything else is different. Pele with modern training and equipment would be unstoppable, just as Ronaldo with thick leather boots and a ploughed pitch to play on would look half the player he does now.
 
Disappointed with rojo removed from the equation.

No matter how you feel about Messi, for him to out of this world cup with very little impact is heart breaking. He's arguably the best player in the world and at worst, shares it with Ronaldo. Last WC, he as magnificent but this has been a disaster. Especially if this is his last world cup, I genuinely sympathize with him. Respect the genius Ronaldo fans, instead of sticking the knife.
 
Arbitrium said:
Ronaldo’s performance v Spain was great, but let’s not catapult it to GOAT individual performance level.

The game was a draw. Against a disjointed team who sacked their manager two days previously.

One penalty, one direct free kick and one abysmal mistake by the goalkeeper.

It was a 9/10 performance and nothing more.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the penalty was caused on him.
 
11101 said:
:lol:

Sorry but that's as stupid a post as you'll ever see.

You can't compare eras. Pele would be an absolute monster if he was playing now, just like Messi or Ronaldo would still be great if they were born in 1950. The footballing ability they all have is consistent across eras, but everything else is different. Pele with modern training and equipment would be unstoppable, just as Ronaldo with thick leather boots and a ploughed pitch to play on would look half the player he does now.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see a video of Ronaldo trying to score a FK like the one vs Portsmouth wearing a pair of Puma King and using a leather ball, maybe just shoot a decent knuckleball, same could be said about Messi attempting his trademark cut inside and curl into the corner :lol:.

I swear, you don't actually understand the difference between eras until you play a game with some generic 10$ fake leather boots, and a 120$ pair of Adidas predators, for chumps like us it's like driving a Fiat 500 vs a Ferrari, I can't imagine the difference between Pelé wearing bricks and today's stars having personalized boots with top-end materials.
 
Revan said:
To be fair, the penalty was caused on him.
Click to expand...

True it was a great piece of play to lead up to it.

You really do need to win the game for a true 10/10 GOAT performance IMO. I’d put it on the same level as arshavin v Liverpool.
 
Messi may fail to make the top 3 of Ballon d'Or this year. Much depends on the WC though. If, for instance, Mbappe continues like that and wins it for France, he will be voted above Messi and may even with Ballon d'Or.
 
Treble said:
Messi may fail to make the top 3 of Ballon d'Or this year. Much depends on the WC though. If, for instance, Mbappe continues like that and wins it for France, he will be voted above Messi and may even with Ballon d'Or.
Click to expand...

Yeah if Portugal goes out here the ballon d’or is the most up for grabs it’s ever been in the last decade
 
Don't want to get dragged into this but I don't how anyone can say Argentina have a better team on paper than Portugal.
 
Treble said:
Messi may fail to make the top 3 of Ballon d'Or this year. Much depends on the WC though. If, for instance, Mbappe continues like that and wins it for France, he will be voted above Messi and may even with Ballon d'Or.
Click to expand...
Would actually be great to have Mbappe (or even Coutinho) win it. And it might even happen, if Ronaldo gets out tonight and they continue playing like this, and eventually win the World Cup.
Arbitrium said:
True it was a great piece of play to lead up to it.

You really do need to win the game for a true 10/10 GOAT performance IMO. I’d put it on the same level as arshavin v Liverpool.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Spain had a much better team, but I kind of agree. I don't think that it will go down as one of the greatest WC performances ever. And let's not forget, it was just a group stage match.
 
Revan said:
Would actually be great to have Mbappe (or even Coutinho) win it. And it might even happen, if Ronaldo gets out tonight and they continue playing like this, and eventually win the World Cup.

To be fair, Spain had a much better team, but I kind of agree. I don't think that it will go down as one of the greatest WC performances ever. And let's not forget, it was just a group stage match.
Click to expand...

We suck at the back, Boutaib could easily put two on us.

It's still 3 goals in a World Cup but it's what I said the same day it happened, great game, but not a career-defining moment.
 
el3mel said:
He did nothing at all this tournament, nothing.
Click to expand...
I don't know am I arguing with people who were asleep during the game and look up the headline which team lost/won?

KO round
2014: In 420 minutes Argentina's defence concedes just 1 goal. Messi has 1 assist.
2018: In 90 minutes Messi has 2 assists and Argentina concedes 4 goals. A black mark on his legacy and he's done nothing (except he actually created more goals than he did in the '14 KO round).

How does that make sense?
 
VP said:
Don't want to get dragged into this but I don't how anyone can say Argentina have a better team on paper than Portugal.
Click to expand...

On paper it's a different argument alright. Argentina certainly have more top end talent, even if they have their share of poor players too.

In reality though Portugal are a more cohesive, better functioning and better managed team. Argentina, for all their talent, were an ill-disciplined shambles whose manager suffered serious damage to his reputation over the brief time he was involved in this tournament. Judging them as a unit, I would definitely prefer to be playing in this Portugal side.
 
Okay let’s settle this debate on who has the stronger team.

Rui Patricio is better than Cabalero or that other guy

Portugal’s defence is better

The midfields are pretty similar, hard to call

Argentina’s overall attacking options FAR outweigh Portugal’s.

There are much more “star” names and higher paid players in the Argentina team.

Portugal function significantly better as a team.

All things considered, they are about as good as each other on paper with Argentina just having a bit more superstar appeal.
 
Schneckerl said:
I don't know am I arguing with people who were asleep during the game and look up the headline which team lost/won?

KO round
2014: In 420 minutes Argentina's defence concedes just 1 goal. Messi has 1 assist.
2018: In 90 minutes Messi has 2 assists and Argentina concedes 4 goals. A black mark on his legacy and he's done nothing (except he actually created more goals than he did in the '14 KO round).

How does that make sense?
Click to expand...

It was 1 assist today and it was after the match was already settled. In 4 games overall he had 1 goal and 1 assist, and both weren't that crucial.

He wasn't effective in KO stages in 2014 but scored 3 goals in the group and all were essential for Argentina to get past it.
 
el3mel said:
It was 1 assist today and it was after the match was already settled. In 4 games overall he had 1 goal and 1 assist, and both weren't that crucial.

He wasn't effective in KO stages in 2014 but scored 3 goals in the group and all were essential for Argentina to get past it.
Click to expand...

Who do you think assisted Mercado?
 
Arbitrium said:
Ronaldo’s performance v Spain was great, but let’s not catapult it to GOAT individual performance level.

The game was a draw. Against a disjointed team who sacked their manager two days previously.

One penalty, one direct free kick and one abysmal mistake by the goalkeeper.

It was a 9/10 performance and nothing more.
Click to expand...

As much as I back Ronaldo, even 9/10 is generous.

The free kick was phenomenal so maybe makes up for the softness of the other goals. But De Gea should have stopped his long range goal. The pen is 50/50, yes he earned it, but a pen is always mildly satisfying.

I think the key is more how important it was to the team. He really is a big fish in a very small pond.

There are barely 5 star players in the whole squad.
 
Messi definitely wins on the quality of facial hair - shocking goatee on Ronaldo.
 
el3mel said:
It was 1 assist today and it was after the match was already settled. In 4 games overall he had 1 goal and 1 assist, and both weren't that crucial.
Click to expand...

He wasn't effective in KO stages in 2014 but scored 3 goals in the group and all were essential for Argentina to get past it.[/QUOTE]
It might not have been worse in an absolute sense, but more disappointing relative what can be realistically expected in that situation and circumstances.

In 2014 Argentina had a perfect path to actually win it, a well organized defence and an easy looking group stage. Offense was just as good if not better on paper, but they just couldn't score after the group stage when they face stronger teams.

This year it was obvious that the team is pure chaos, they barely qualified. They were underdog against a clearly superior France side (probably better than all team they faced in '14 except Germany) and lost like expected. Instead of being completely blown out like in the '10 QF they somehow managed to score 3 goals, even leading 2-1 for a while. With the '14 defence they probably don't allow 3 goals after already leading and Messi created the winner.

They wouldn't have made it past the group stage in 2018 without his goal too though btw.
 
Schneckerl said:
It might not have been worse in an absolute sense, but more disappointing relative what can be realistically expected in that situation and circumstances.

In 2014 Argentina had a perfect path to actually win it, a well organized defence and an easy looking group stage. Offense was just as good if not better on paper, but they just couldn't score after the group stage when they face stronger teams.

This year it was obvious that the team is pure chaos, they barely qualified. They were underdog against a clearly superior France side (probably better than all team they faced in '14 except Germany) and lost like expected. Instead of being completely blown out like in the '10 QF they somehow managed to score 3 goals, even leading 2-1 for a while. With the '14 defence they probably don't allow 3 goals after already leading and Messi created the winner.

They wouldn't have made it past the group stage in 2018 without his goal too though btw.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your general point that he wasn't effective in their run to final in 2014, I just disagree with that 2014 was for worse for Messi than 2018. I think people will remember 2018 as more disappointing for him than 2014 due to different reasons.
 
Messi has never shone in any environment other than the Barcelona team that's built entirely around him. This WC was his last chance to show he could do it without the supporting cast. The argument is settled for me now.
 
11101 said:
Messi has never shone in any environment other than the Barcelona team that's built entirely around him. This WC was his last chance to show he could do it without the supporting cast. The argument is settled for me now.
Click to expand...

He’s been to 3 straight finals with the NT, GTFO
 
Ab
11101 said:
Messi has never shone in any environment other than the Barcelona team that's built entirely around him. This WC was his last chance to show he could do it without the supporting cast. The argument is settled for me now.
Click to expand...
Absolutely right. How dare he claim to be one of the best if his country can’t even produce decent defenders?
 
el3mel said:
So you count this as an assist, and then people blame us for "taking stats as they're". :lol:
Click to expand...

I have no idea whether he wanted to take a shot or wanted to assist, could've been either. I also don't recall people trying to split these hairs before.
 
el3mel said:
So you count this as an assist, and then people blame us for "taking stats as they're". :lol:
Click to expand...

This basically reads as "You know, we can count anything in our favour to bias the argument, you shouldn't count this as an assist because you preach pure football".
 
do.ob said:
I have no idea whether he wanted to take a shot or wanted to assist, could've been either. I also don't recall people trying to split these hairs before.
Click to expand...

You can see clearly he didn't even look at getting the ball for anyone, and Mercado himself found the ball hitting him while he wasn't even focusing. Clearly random. It'll will count as an assist stats wise but anyone who watches the goal know it wasn't.
 
Ishdalar said:
This basically reads as "You know, we can count anything in our favour to bias the argument, you shouldn't count this as an assist because you preach pure football".
Click to expand...

Again it counts as an assist stats wise, but you need to be a pro Messi fanboy to give him a credit for this goal or start including them in stats wise to prove your point.
 
el3mel said:
Again it counts as an assist stats wise, but you need to be a pro Messi fanboy to give him a credit for this goal or start including them in stats wise to prove your point.
Click to expand...

Yeah, right. Because you make those kinds of distinctions for every goal, match and every player. Using "fanboy" as an argument is also among the classic in the moron's repertoire.
 
do.ob said:
Yeah, right. Because you make those kinds of distinctions for every goal, match and every player. Using "fanboy" as an argument is also among the classic in the moron's arsenal.
Click to expand...

Not worse than considering a random shot that hit someone as an assist to boost your argument.
 
Messi played well imo, what people expect is completely unrealistic.
 
el3mel said:
Not worse than considering a random shot that hit someone as an assist to boost your argument.
Click to expand...

I'm using the official metrics, you're using something entirely subjective. Let me see your spreadsheet where I can see what goals and assists count and which don't.
 
el3mel said:
Again it counts as an assist stats wise, but you need to be a pro Messi fanboy to give him a credit for this goal or start including them in stats wise to prove your point.
Click to expand...

If anyone in here would discount Ronaldo's goal after De Gea's mistake he would be called out for it. Messi's assist may not have been intended but he still beat his marker, created the shooting lane and took it. It was a good play that lead to a goal. Not giving him credit for that is completely agenda driven.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.