Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Messi has never scored in a world cup knock out. His 6 world cup goals are against

Nigeria (2 in 2014, 1 2018)
Iran
Serbia
Bosnia

Not scored against a big team, not scored in knock out. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

MOST overrated player on the planet. He is not god! He is not GOAT.

Now don't get me wrong, still a great record, but all he has shown is he can dominate a weak Spanish league with a wildly disproportionate supporting cast.
 
John Johnson said:
Arbitrary achievements are never going to settle this debate
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It won't settle, but it is a really black mark on his career IMO.

The more you think about it (and actually I laughed about it when the argument was mentioned), Messi hasn't really proven that he can play at GOAT-level without Xavi and Iniesta. Put him in less than perfect circumstances and he sulks. He might be the only GOAT-calibre player for which you can say that.
 
Yeah not convinced criticism of Messi is well placed after this tournament. Anyone with working eyes can see the team is a mess. 2014 final was his moment.

Comparison to Ronaldo is laughable though.
 
He was ok today. Messi played well when France gave him space, as soon as Matuidi went off it became a lot easier on him otherwise it was pretty much the same thing that happened at Stamford Bridge this season with Kante + one midfielder taking turns man marking him. It's always the same strategy to deny him space and man mark him while a second midfielder gives cover and when done well it usually works.

He was poor in the first two games, today could have been better and he disappeared during large periods but it wasn't a bad performance. It was just too little too late for him at this tournament.
 
So, Rojo gives away a stupid penalty. Poor overall.
Messi stood still and watched DiMaria score a world class goal. Despite the assists, average overall.

Let''s see what Ronaldo has got in store for us.
 
Revan said:
It won't settle, but it is a really black mark on his career IMO.

The more you think about it (and actually I laughed about it when the argument was mentioned), Messi hasn't really proven that he can play at GOAT-level without Xavi and Iniesta. Put him in less than perfect circumstances and he sulks. He might be the only GOAT-calibre player for which you can say that.
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The only thing bigger than Messi is the desire from his haters to undermine his career :lol:
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Messi has never scored in a world cup knock out. His 6 world cup goals are against

Nigeria (2 in 2014, 1 2018)
Iran
Serbia
Bosnia

Not scored against a big team, not scored in knock out. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

MOST overrated player on the planet. He is not god! He is not GOAT.

Now don't get me wrong, still a great record, but all he has shown is he can dominate a weak Spanish league with a wildly disproportionate supporting cast.
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And here is the perfect example of why this whole Ronaldo vs Messi discussion is futile. There's far too much bias on both sides. It's impossible to have a reasonable debate.
 
Oh you just know Ronaldo is smelling blood now that messi is out. He’ll put on a show in a couple of hours
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Messi has never scored in a world cup knock out. His 6 world cup goals are against

Nigeria (2 in 2014, 1 2018)
Iran
Serbia
Bosnia

Not scored against a big team, not scored in knock out. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

MOST overrated player on the planet. He is not god! He is not GOAT.

Now don't get me wrong, still a great record, but all he has shown is he can dominate a weak Spanish league with a wildly disproportionate supporting cast.
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Are United, Arsenal, Bayern, Real etc all weak teams? He has destroyed all of them before. No WC final round goals for Ronaldo.

WC doesn't matter that much. George Best is better than Denilson. One has won the World Cup.

Ronaldo and Messi are the best ever.
 
Ishdalar said:
The only thing bigger than Messi is the desire from his haters to undermine his career :lol:
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There are a lot of things bigger than Messi. One of those is the ability of his fan boys to absolve him of any blame.
 
Argentina were a shambles this tournament, nobody was carrying them to a World Cup.

Also, Messi was okay today. Not great but certainly nowhere near being the reason they lost.

All that said, I was very disappointed with him in this tournament. Didn't play near as well as he should have, even in a dysfunctional team. Was also too quick to look defeated for someone who is supposed to be their leader.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Messi has never scored in a world cup knock out. His 6 world cup goals are against

Nigeria (2 in 2014, 1 2018)
Iran
Serbia
Bosnia

Not scored against a big team, not scored in knock out. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

MOST overrated player on the planet. He is not god! He is not GOAT.

Now don't get me wrong, still a great record, but all he has shown is he can dominate a weak Spanish league with a wildly disproportionate supporting cast.
Click to expand...

Most over-rates on the planet? Don't be ridiculous. If people don't think he's the GOAT then that's fair game, but he'd still be in the top 5 irregardless.

Making it sound as if he's a top 30 player.

This tournament hasn't changed much for me - he's still the greatest. He can run as much as he likes, there was nothing he could have done to help the shambolic defenders.
 
Messi is fantastic on the ball but lacks the work rate to be the best player. No excuses for his poor movement.
 
K2K said:
Can Uruguay win this next tie so that the rest of us can enjoy the tournament in peace?

The worst thing about Messi v Ronaldo is their respective fanboys. I know one IRL and he is insufferable.
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I lean towards Ronaldo in this debate but I honestly hope this happens, this thread is way too toxic with both sides rushing in as soon as one of them are involved in any game.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
And here is the perfect example of why this whole Ronaldo vs Messi discussion is futile. There's far too much bias on both sides. It's impossible to have a reasonable debate.
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Personally I think all GOAT discussions are futile.

Pele only did his goals in a weak Brazilian League
Maradonas record is fairly poor compared to Messi, Ronaldo, or Pele
Ronaldo....erm took slightly longer to get going?
Messi... most international goals against weak teams, or friendlies.
 
I thought Messi did well, but overall in this WC, he simply underperformed.

I still won't conclude whether Ronaldo or Messi are more worthy for GOAT for now. But this year Ballon D'or, I don't think Messi can beat Ronaldo.
 
sullydnl said:
Argentina were a shambles this tournament, nobody was carrying them to a World Cup.

Also, Messi was okay today. Not great but certainly nowhere near being the reason they lost.

All that said, I was very disappointed with him in this tournament. Didn't play near as well as he should have, even in a dysfunctional team. Was also too quick to look defeated for someone who is supposed to be their leader.
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And that's a massive negative against anyone who lays claim to the title of goat.
 
RedIke said:
Dont like the actual debate itself. Messi is beyond words.

Ronnie is just a bit more beyond words to me.
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Pretty much my take on it. Your not a true football fan if you don’t enjoy watching both of them play. To me Ronaldo and Messi are easily in my top 3 all time or top 4. To put them anywhere lower then that would be ludacris I’m honored to have seen both of them play in their primes in my lifetime.
 
Rado_N said:
What?
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Did you even watch the game? Messi played really well. In the first half, Argentina were dreadful, the manager completely f*cked up, and he barely got the ball. In the second half, he set up two goals, made several excellent dribbles, did his usual set up play and passes, playing against a much, much better team than the team he is playing on.

If anyone believes that Ronaldo would have done more in this game, playing in that team, they either know nothing about football, or they're completely biased, or they're completely stupid, or a combination of the three.

And I'm not saying that to be contentious. Quite honestly, if you can't see that this is a poor Argentina side, and that Messi played as well as could reasonably be expected against a much better team then, as with many things on this thread, it beggars belief.
 
Revan said:
There are a lot of things bigger than Messi. One of those is the ability of his fan boys to absolve him of any blame.
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It's not absolving, he wasn't brilliant today, and still managed to get two assists and was close to score himself.

He should've been absolved from pressure on winning the tournament with Argentina, after they depended on him just to qualify, from that point any argumentation against him failing to do so is just biased, no one would really expect Ronaldo to win a World Cup with Portugal, if he manages, it adds up, if he fails it's not on him, that how this tournament should've been for Leo.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I thought Messi did well, but overall in this WC, he simply underperformed.

I still won't conclude whether Ronaldo or Messi are more worthy for GOAT for now. But this year Ballon D'or, I don't think Messi can beat Ronaldo.
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If Spain win, may be Ramos gets it. If crotia win , modric most definitely gets it but other wise I don't see how Ronaldo doesn't get it as only performances in the CL have been considered in the past few years.
 
kidbob said:
Are United, Arsenal, Bayern, Real etc all weak teams? He has destroyed all of them before. No WC final round goals for Ronaldo.

WC doesn't matter that much. George Best is better than Denilson. One has won the World Cup.

Ronaldo and Messi are the best ever.
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WC has always mattered though. A lot.

They aren't compared with the likes of Denilson. Pele was arguably as good as them on club's level, and miles better in World Cups. If Di Stefano had matched Pele in WC, then in all likelihood he would have been rated as the greatest ever. Had Best played a good world cup, he would likely been put on pair with Cruyff, etc etc.

When you compare all time greats, everything should matter IMO. And the most important competition of them all, should matter a lot.
 
So is this goat debate about achievements and stats then? No one seemed to be talking about pure ability, skill, etc.
 
RedTillI'mDead said:
Messi has never scored in a world cup knock out. His 6 world cup goals are against

Nigeria (2 in 2014, 1 2018)
Iran
Serbia
Bosnia

Not scored against a big team, not scored in knock out. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

MOST overrated player on the planet. He is not god! He is not GOAT.

Now don't get me wrong, still a great record, but all he has shown is he can dominate a weak Spanish league with a wildly disproportionate supporting cast.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo hasn't scored in one either. Messi however has four assists in the KO stage. Ronaldo hasn't scored at all, neither assists nor goals. Not that it matters, it is just an unimportant fact that's worth nothing without context.

I'm not sure if Messi is the greatest of all time, I have never really seen the likes of Pele, Puskas, Di Stefano etc. play and the existing footage isn't enough to judge. But in my opinion, he is definitely the best I have seen. Especially his peak wasn't reached by anyone in the game.
 
Kush said:
I lean towards Ronaldo in this debate but I honestly hope this happens, this thread is way too toxic with both sides rushing in as soon as one of them are involved in any game.
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It's just embarrassing. Juvenile even.

You see some comments here even that makes you cringe no matter what side of the divide you fall.

Worst thing is that it's spilling over into other threads.

I hate myself for this, but I can't wait for the next Non Messi/Ronaldo Balon d'Or winner.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Most over-rates on the planet? Don't be ridiculous. If people don't think he's the GOAT then that's fair game, but he'd still be in the top 5 irregardless.

Making it sound as if he's a top 30 player.

This tournament hasn't changed much for me - he's still the greatest. He can run as much as he likes, there was nothing he could have done to help the shambolic defenders.
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I just think Messi fan boys make out like everyone else is a mile away from Messi. And the level of blindness is what I call the level of overrating

Who else has such a big level of blind rating, with literally no appreciation for the competition.

So yes I'm talking relatively and yes Messi still top 3 of which I wouldn't even bother trying to say whose better because circumstances are too different when trying to separate at that level.

What Messi isn't is in a league of his own and entirely untouchable as the Messi Brigade argue.
 
Messi has been given every privilege and every opportunity, ranging from growth hormones at la masia, to having one of the world's best clubs built solely around him. He performed exceptionally and graced the world of football with unquestionable talent. However, he's also shown that he's built a career, standing on the shoulders of giants and when you take him out of his comfort zone, he hasn't got the mentality to lift or inspire in a lesser team, or raise his game enough to carry a lesser team, when it counts.

He's well able to make a good team a great one but not so much when it comes to making a mediocre team, good.

Which is why I personally rank one or two players above him in the Goat debate.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
If Spain win, may be Ramos gets it. If crotia win , modric most definitely gets it but other wise I don't see how Ronaldo doesn't get it as only performances in the CL have been considered in the past few years.
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Ronaldo has been phenomenal for most part of this year, and in some biggest early game in this WC. He is easily leading this year Ballon D'or, unless some crazy shite happen later in this WC.
 
Revan said:
WC has always mattered though. A lot.

They aren't compared with the likes of Denilson. Pele was arguably as good as them on club's level, and miles better in World Cups. If Di Stefano had matched Pele in WC, then in all likelihood he would have been rated as the greatest ever. Had Best played a good world cup, he would likely been put on pair with Cruyff, etc etc.

When you compare all time greats, everything should matter IMO. And the most important competition of them all, should matter a lot.
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Fair enough, honestly both of them are close to inseperable but it's tiresome that people have to attack each player with false over the top statements to score points. Both are incredible but I would never expect one player to be able to win a tournament on their own.

It goes 2 ways. If Portugal lose tonight watch the knives come out for Ronnie too.
 
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