Enough about Ramos, Quarasma and Eder though
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Enough about Ramos, Quarasma and Eder though
Both their teams play worse football than Ingurland.
Much like Quaresma with Ronaldo
Ronaldo has 4 goals to Quaresma's 1, so not quite.
Of all the unimportant things in life I'd choose to avoid, that would be the top one for a bunch of reasons.
Portugal win 1-0 with Ronaldo scoring from a PK anyone else won, "this settles it forever".
Portugal win 1-0 with a goal from Andre Silva, Messi had a good game but loses, "Ronaldo won anyway, he's such a great leader, the way he inspired Silva... Messi failed to lead Argentina at a psychological level".
Portugal get through on penalties, both of them score their part, "still, Portugal are only there because of what Ronaldo did vs Spain and Iran, he led Portugal to this point, he's the GOAT".
Extra tilt points for potentially having to go through that in the "biggest game of their careers", while remembering they already faced off at the peak game of club football (UCL final) with both teams having a treble on the line which Leo ran away with, something already forgotten, or met with a "But he had Xavi and Iniesta" answer.
@Daysleeper I am trolling mate
Ronald's record against United is 1 goal per match. 2 matches, 2 goals in UCL 2013.
Rojo is the GOAT though. 1 match against Nigeria, 1 goal. Messi scored too, but Rojo's goal was better. And Ronaldo is not even in discussion considering that he wasn't good enough even to play against Nigeria.
One could argue that Barca team was the best team ever in football, and it wouldn't be so outlandish! So you probably understand why no one takes any meaningful conclusions from that game, but you're clearly agenda-driven.
If Nigeria had held on for 1-1, Argentina are outIf Iran had won 1-0, Portugal are out
But I'm just trolling
I'm just trolling too
Conveniently ignoring the fact they only got there due to the incompetence of Ovebro.
Yes... because he did. Put Ronaldo in Barcelona and Messi in Manchester and who runs away with it in that final? You complain so much about their pretty similar squads now but when there was actually a big difference you just ignore it.
Your predictions are funny exactly because of that. The most likely scenario if we played Argentina would be us getting dominated as we should only for it to mean that Messi is better... just like in 2009. For Ronaldo the excuses that his teammates are worse doesn't work. If Ronaldo has a bad game you don't get people on twitter making videos scapegoating Quaresma and Andre Silva or the media making articles about how it's totally not Ronaldo's fault that he played poorly.
Ronaldo is a great leader and he does make it easier for the team to be coherently built around him. Messi is not a great leader and he definitely has his fair share of responsability for what's been happening with Argentina and that goes beyond what he does on the pitch too. That's true no matter what the results are. It will get highlighted if the results go one way and downplayed if they go another way but it is true.
If the ref calls the penalty on Rojo or Rojo doesn't score the goal, Messi would be getting criticism for the whole World Cup, for his second half performance, for his leadership, etc.. but as things turned out this way he's getting praise for the good game he played. That's how it works and there's nothing wrong with it.
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Ronaldo.
Messi is better to watch but Ronaldo is better. His movement is ridiculous.
Messi is better to watch but Ronaldo is better. His movement is ridiculous.
It wouldn't be so outlandish that had United won that game, they'd probably be crowned as the best team ever.
Threepeat in the EPL, at that moment the best league in the world.
Would mean the best team ever to get a UCL double (they came from winning the whole thing back in 2008, eliminating... Barcelona in semis).
Best team to get two trebles (or at least, two variations of trebles).
Now you want to paint that final as a one-sided match? Okay, you're free to try and do so, but Barcelona turned into the best team in the world because they dethroned Ronaldo's United, who were themselves on route to claim that era in a fair way, it wasn't some Real Madrid - Liverpool final.
But clearly I'm the one here with an agenda, that's why I mean when I mention how everyone tones down the importance of that game.
I've been enjoying your posts lately and have found some respect for most of your opinions, so I'm not going to start a "posting war" over something that we have actually discussed, with examples from mistakes in other games along the careers of Cris and Leo that have come to shape their legends.
If Nigeria had held on for 1-1, Argentina are out
I'm just trolling too
They'll probably get smashed by France for what it's worth. How you feeling about the Uruguay matchup?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cheering-on-liverpool-2017-18-edition.432256/page-45#post-22453105
@Niall , time to keep to your word
Bale beat Liverpool in the final. Close but no cigar
Man, France could be the first stone in a redemption path.
France in R16 to avenge Griezmann refusing to join us.
Portugal in QF to silence the haters.
Brazil in SF to destroy Neymar.
Germany in the final, revenge for 2014.
They will probably go out vs France, but if Argentina wins the WC through that path I might become insufferable for a couple weeks
Yes, you blatantly are when you spend 3 years complaining how Messi has a barely inferior squad around him than Ronaldo in Madrid but then say it's a crap excuse when there was actually a big difference and Barcelona had the greatest team that's ever played the game. If you want to pretend Messi being part of the greatest team that's ever played football didn't have a massive effect into how well he did during those years then you're most definitely biased. If you do that while constantly complaining about Ronaldo having better teammates now while then biased isn't enough.
If there's one guy in this debate who gets to really complain about the teammates he's had throughout his whole career compared to the other it's Ronaldo, by a mile. But that's not how it actually is though is it? Which is the one that gets an incredible amount of people making a billion different scapegoats every single time he has a poor game?
Ronaldo had a poor game yesterday, how many excuses did you read? With Messi, it's the midfield, it's Higuain, it's Aguero, it's Di Maria, it's the manager, the FA, the wind is too strong, the press puts too much pressure on him, it's the Barca board, Suarez is finished, Dybala can't play next to him, his teammates are always all finished and useless. It's both hilarious and pathetic to look at both the Portugal squad and the Argentina squad and seeing that Messi is the one constantly getting excuses for not performing because his teammates aren't good enough.
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You claimed in your previous posts that Dembélé is a better player than Bale, that Piqué and Ramos are at the same level, that Kroos isn't better than Rakitic and that Alba is better than Marcelo who is one of the best fullbacks ever.
I'm sure you don't have an agenda.
Meltdown much?. For someone who was bashing Kroos just a couple days ago you surely like putting your sins on other people.
Barcelona played with a backline of Sylvinho (34 y/o) Pique (first whole season as a first choice CB) Yaya Toure (lol) and Puyol (who hadn't play as a RB in 5 years).
You're implying that final was a duel of 11 players at their peak, Pique wasn't near peaking, Alves and Abidal didn't play, Yaya was a CB, Henry was Barcelona Henry, not EPL terror Henry...
And still, they were playing fecking United, 3 EPL titles in a row, UCL winners, 1 game away from a treble season and with who was considered at that moment the best player in the world, I'm the one that downplays teammates?.
Tell me, why were United the favourites in that final? Are betting houses in the bussiness of losing money? Were they just a bunch of Messi apologists?.
I don't "complain" that Ronaldo has better teammates, I ARGUMENT that what Ronaldo has achieved recently is based on having a team superior to almost everyone in Europe, AS IT HAPPENED with Messi, I always defend as a principle that teams, not players, are the ones that win tournaments. Furthest you would read from me could be "Messi leading Argentina" in 2014, not defending the idea of "single-handedly winning it", maybe I could use that as a hyperbole.
If Ronaldo had been the one to win a UCL final vs Barcelona in 2015, scoring, being the MVP and stopping them from sealing a treble you would relinquish that moment as the best of his career and the ultimate one-up to Messi, saying that I'm the one biased here for asking "hey, can we give him some solid merit for doing that" almost gets in conflict with the bounds of reality.
Great title change
That will be a bloodbath, probably with a penalty shootout at the end for those who are left, as close to a 50-50 as it gets.
You've jumped the shark this time!
It's not just once that Ronaldo has shown his annoyance when a team-mate has scored a goal for his team. That would be unforgivable in itself. It's several times. You can't have failed to have noticed this because it's been massive news at the time. He's not a great leader, he is a self-interested and ultimately selfish individual.
Equally, to claim that Ronaldo "makes it easier for the team to be built coherently around him", when Messi is quite clearly a better team player, is almost stultifyingly ridiculous.
Bashing Kroos? I merely pointed out the stupidity in pretending Casemiro-Kroos-Modric is anywhere as good as Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta which it isn't. Obviously.
Kroos is one of the best midfielders of his generation, but he's not the best, second best, third best or fourth best either. Taking that as me bashing Kroos is incredible. His form for the year simply got completely overlooked, if he was playing next to Messi instead of Ronaldo I guarantee you that wouldn't have been the case. Rakitic was every bit as good as Kroos this season.
Yes, you are... when you implied saying Xavi and Iniesta had a big impact on Messi's success was wrong you did exactly that.
United won 3 Premier League titles in a row... their squad still wasn't as good as Barcelona's which is what I'm talking about. Not about some wrong perception of how they were thought of before the final happened.
Difference is Ronaldo is in one of the best teams in the world, Messi was in the greatest team of all time. You keep pretending like it's the same thing when it absolutely isn't. That's the problem.
Messi also had that huge benefit when he was in his prime... Ronaldo didn't. Regardless of all of this and with worse teammates around him, he still has bigger trophies to show for it.
Oh give me a break.. Did I ever said Messi didn't deserve credit for that final? What the hell.... and you didn't say any of that in your original comment, not one bit of it
Xavi was the best player in that final by the way, not Messi. And one-upping? Players don't go up against eachother, teams do. This isn't boxing. United had beaten Barcelona in the semis just one year earlier...
What a goal by the GOAT
More or less ridiculous than claiming Bale is a better football player than Ronaldo? Which you did, if you haven't forgotten. Just 2 weeks ago. And what I said is not ridiculous at all if you know the first thing about the sport, most people would agree with that.
Those videos and the conclusion you got out of them
'You've jumped the shark this time!'
I definitely understand how Ronaldo continuously doing what he does has tilted people like you but there's a point where the bitterness turns into blind stupidity and you've crossed it long ago.
If you argue things that make the tiniest bit of sense and I disagree, I'll argue that. If you want to keep acting as the most bitter man to have ever lived by saying nonsensical thing one after the other then continue doing so but you won't get any football discussion out of it either. Not from me but from anyone.
Man, France could be the first stone in a redemption path.
France in R16 to avenge Griezmann refusing to join us.
Portugal in QF to silence the haters.
Brazil in SF to destroy Neymar.
Germany in the final, revenge for 2014.
They will probably go out vs France, but if Argentina wins the WC through that path I might become insufferable for a couple weeks
Shame Argentina couldn't find themselves on the other side of the bracket.
I still hope Pavon becomes a starter (and Aguero returns to the starting XI) and that Dybala can make his mark as a super sub in this WC.
One game at a time, France's defense is much better than Argentina's, but they haven't looked amazing this tournament either.
Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets may be part of one of the greatest midfields in history, but it's no surprise that once Ronaldo had a better team behind him than Messi, he began winning trophies. Same with when Messi had better teammates than Ronaldo, he was winning more of the bigger trophies.
Madrid have the greatest midfield in the world, a multiple defenders who are on the all time CL scoring list for defenders, and players like Ramos who have had been amazing in the CL finals 90% of the time.
Madrid have the greatest midfield in the world, a multiple defenders who are on the all time CL scoring list for defenders, and players like Ramos who have had been amazing in the CL finals 90% of the time.
Why do Barcelona fans turn into Argentina fans when international football comes but Madrid fans don't turn into Portugal fans?
I've seen a ton of Madrid fans support Portugal, but I'm Canadian myself so for these international tournaments I have no problem supporting Argentina until Canada makes the WC (2026).
I imagine there are a lot of non-Spanish Madrid fans who have no problem supporting Portugal. Both Portugal and Argentina play fairly dire football anyway.
You surely claimed that Dembélé>Bale when comparing Barca and Madrid and everyone laughed at you
You also consider Ramos and Piqué at the same level which is blatantly wrong. Piqué is terrible in 1vs1 situations and has been probably the worst player for Spain in this WC.
You claimed that both Kroos and Rakitic are top 5 in the world and there's not much difference between them. Actually Kroos is better than Rakitic and one bad season from one player and one good match against Argentina don't change that.
Rojo is a better defender than the two. No comparison.
More or less ridiculous than claiming Bale is a better football player than Ronaldo? Which you did, if you haven't forgotten. Just 2 weeks ago. And what I said is not ridiculous at all if you know the first thing about the sport, most people would agree with that.
Those videos and the conclusion you got out of them
'You've jumped the shark this time!'
I definitely understand how Ronaldo continuously doing what he does has tilted people like you but there's a point where the bitterness turns into blind stupidity and you've crossed it long ago.
If you argue things that make the tiniest bit of sense and I disagree, I'll argue that. If you want to keep acting as the most bitter man to have ever lived by saying nonsensical thing one after the other then continue doing so but you won't get any football discussion out of it either. Not from me but from anyone.
Agree with you. Don't bother with this lass anymore. Glaringly obvious she is just trying to troll if she doesnt appreciate Ronaldo as a player.
There is no way Ronaldo would have scored the goal that Messi did. Pure class. Argentina should reach the final now.
There are goals Ronaldo would score and messi wouldn't to be honest.
But yeah, that might be my favorite Messi goal with Argentina. The control and touch with the left foot without letting the ball touch the ground is amazing.
This is my favorite barcelona goal
Because Madrid is in Spain and Spain don’t like Portugal.
This is where the understatement lies among this type of debate. Yes I think Messi is technically a better player, and easily the best player in La Liga this season too. But then you also have to give credits due to the other side too. Ronaldo didn’t singlehandedly win “every” CL game for Real, but he’s still top scorer of tournament (15 goals), and scored in 10 games out of 13 this season (majority of them are crucial match winner). This is as good as anyone could have achieve in CL history, if you keep an open mind to this.
Also, do you realize Ronaldo had up to date 208 assists throughout his career? That’s not as far behind to Messi career stats as you think (250 assists for Messi).
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