Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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Red Stone said:
But he has the trophies to show it. Don't backpedal on your stupid arguments now.

If that Golden Ball for Messi means he was genuinely the best player at the World Cup, then Ronaldo's six Ballon d'Ors mean that he has been a better player than Messi, who has five.
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Don't bother with him.

He said he won't remember Ronaldo in 50 years prior to the CL games vs Juve. We all know what happened next.

He constantly puts down Ronaldo.
 
BTW talking about the last World Cup, it is very hard to say who was the best player as it is subjective. But whoscored.com provides a statistical analysis of the players. Here it is for the 2014 World Cup:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...rStatistics/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2014

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Here are the statistics for the 2015 Copa America:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...yerStatistics/International-Copa-America-2015

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They don't have statistics for the Copa Centenario, but Messi scored 5 goals and got 4 assists in this tournament, it was his best ever tournament and he was clearly the best player.

So Messi has effectively been the best player statistically at three separate international tournaments. Here's where Ronaldo was in Euro 2016:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...tics/International-European-Championship-2016

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This is the problem of comparing individuals in a team sport. Almost certainly Messi will never win anything with Argentina, but his performances in tournaments have been better than Ronaldo, at least statistically.

Obviously the current World Cup is an exception, but there is no player who would do anything in this Argentina team. If Ronaldo was playing in this team, he would do exactly what Aguero did; barely touch the ball (Aguero touched it 7 times in the first-half against Croatia). In fact, they wouldn't even be in the World Cup because he would never have been able to do what Messi did against Ecuador.
 
7even said:
Football is a team sport so leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma is all part of the judgement. Another very important factor is the ability to adapt to different teammates, different environment and different challenges. That’s why most of us rank WC results as a very important factor when we judge who’s the GOAT.

Pelé won three WC, scoring goals both in his first and in his last final, twelve years apart. That’s a huge achievement. Maradona almost singlehanded took his NT to a WC trophy 1986. I saw all his games in that tournament and it’s not an overstatement to say that apart from being head and shoulders above every other player around him, he was also a warrior and a general in one persona. His swagger, mentality and charisma was something else. So when comparing Messi it’s hard to overlook Maradona’s WC achievement.

Talanted wise with the ball to his feet and as a playmaker Messi is above Ronaldo. Hands down. But if we include determination, leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma then Maradona and Ronaldo is on another level to Messi. A GOAT can’t give up, he can’t look defeated and he can’t let his team mates down when they need him the most. That’s my view.

Finally. Armando and Cristiano act like superstars, the look like superstars and they perform like superstars when it counts. Just like Michael Jordan and Tom Brady. That’s hard to overlook.
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Your acting like Ronaldo has actually done something at a WC Messi hasn't... I'd like to be enlightened to what it is?
Messi 3 terrible group stages, 1 excellent group stage. Ronaldo 3 terrible group stages, 1 excellent one thus far (that's not over).

Messi has scored in 2 CL finals, Ronaldo 3 (one of which was a 120th minute peno with the tie dead.)

Their records in big games and big finals are very similar.
 
Zehner said:
Since when does Messi play tennis?



That's the objective. The one who scores the goal isn't necessarily the one who contributed the most to it, let alone to the victory or trophy. Messi does so many thinks that help his team which Ronaldo isn't bothered with at all nowadays - and he does them better than Ronaldo did in his younger years when he still cared.

Sorry, that's simply not enough for me to convince me that Ronaldo is better. I'll always rate players like Messi higher than players like the mid to late career Ronaldo because I think dribblings, passes, one twos and so on are much more difficult things to do than converting chances.
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Yeah Ronaldo is the one who gets the goals but look at how many chances are created for him, he's not a one man army like some people have you believe
 
In Rainbows said:
Messi was really good in 2010. The narrative just become a "Messi didn't score, therefore he was bad" kind of thing.
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He wasn't really good. He was the best of a bunch of superstar underperforming players which included Ronaldo, Rooney, Torres, Kaka and so on.
 
padr81 said:
Your acting like Ronaldo has actually done something at a WC Messi hasn't... I'd like to be enlightened to what it is?
Messi 3 terrible group stages, 1 excellent group stage. Ronaldo 3 terrible group stages, 1 excellent one thus far (that's not over).

Messi has scored in 2 CL finals, Ronaldo 3 (one of which was a 120th minute peno with the tie dead.)

Their records in big games and big finals are very similar.
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Ronaldo has played badly in 4 CL finals, Messi has played bad in 0 CL finals
 
I don't really get the shock now. I thought it was the general consensus that Messi's award in 2014 was a joke?
 
7even said:
Football is a team sport so leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma is all part of the judgement. Another very important factor is the ability to adapt to different teammates, different environment and different challenges. That’s why most of us rank WC results as a very important factor when we judge who’s the GOAT.

Pelé won three WC, scoring goals both in his first and in his last final, twelve years apart. That’s a huge achievement. Maradona almost singlehanded took his NT to a WC trophy 1986. I saw all his games in that tournament and it’s not an overstatement to say that apart from being head and shoulders above every other player around him, he was also a warrior and a general in one persona. His swagger, mentality and charisma was something else. So when comparing Messi it’s hard to overlook Maradona’s WC achievement.

Talanted wise with the ball to his feet and as a playmaker Messi is above Ronaldo. Hands down. But if we include determination, leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma then Maradona and Ronaldo is on another level to Messi. A GOAT can’t give up, he can’t look defeated and he can’t let his team mates down when they need him the most. That’s my view.

Finally. Armando and Cristiano act like superstars, the look like superstars and they perform like superstars when it counts. Just like Michael Jordan and Tom Brady. That’s hard to overlook.
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The mental aspect is often laughed at but I feel it's perhaps the most important attribute of being a footballer. It's inevitable as a player you'll have bad games, miss a big chance or make a big mistake. How you react to it is what counts, Messi's reaction to Copa Final defeat was to call it quits. To say he doesn't have the bottle to perform in pressure matches would obviously be ludicrous but there's another bloke who performs in those crunch situations more than Messi which is something his supporters have trouble accepting.
 
Revan said:
Nah, Ron in 2006 was better than Messi in any world Cup bar 2014. And it could be argued that Ronaldo this year is already close at matching Messi 2014.
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He was good in 06 while but imho not as good as Ronaldo levels (that he's set since) kind of like Messi in 10 who was good if not unreal. Both weren't poor at the time but by the standards they've set since.
 
Revan said:
He wasn't really good. He was the best of a bunch of superstar underperforming players which included Ronaldo, Rooney, Torres, Kaka and so on.
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I think overall he was as good as anyone, the only one I would say deserved it as much as him was probably Rodriguez but he didn't make it as far which played a part in not receiving it
 
I feel as though if they swapped national teams, Argentina would be better off and Portugal worse. One thing I think where Ronaldo has the advantage over Messi is I think he can fit more easily into other teams without having to change things around too much.
 
Ishdalar said:
Now we're going with Maradona to articulate valid opinions?.

Jesus, if you did the amount of coke and drank the amount of booze he did (and at least drinking, we know he still does) you could end up saying Ronaldo is a tap in merchant, that's how messed up that head is. He has changed his mind about Messi as many times as we can breath a day.
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Well about coke...

:lol::lol::lol:
 
wub1234 said:
BTW talking about the last World Cup, it is very hard to say who was the best player as it is subjective. But whoscored.com provides a statistical analysis of the players. Here it is for the 2014 World Cup:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...rStatistics/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2014

GoubzED.png


Here are the statistics for the 2015 Copa America:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...yerStatistics/International-Copa-America-2015

EGwZIUU.png


They don't have statistics for the Copa Centenario, but Messi scored 5 goals and got 4 assists in this tournament, it was his best ever tournament and he was clearly the best player.

So Messi has effectively been the best player statistically at three separate international tournaments. Here's where Ronaldo was in Euro 2016:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...tics/International-European-Championship-2016

q51njWf.png


This is the problem of comparing individuals in a team sport. Almost certainly Messi will never win anything with Argentina, but his performances in tournaments have been better than Ronaldo, at least statistically.

Obviously the current World Cup is an exception, but there is no player who would do anything in this Argentina team. If Ronaldo was playing in this team, he would do exactly what Aguero did; barely touch the ball (Aguero touched it 7 times in the first-half against Croatia). In fact, they wouldn't even be in the World Cup because he would never have been able to do what Messi did against Ecuador.
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Whoscored != statistics
 
I think that in this World Cup they are 50-50 so far. Yeah, Ronaldo has 4 goals, but Messi has a beard. Ronaldo has to do something with his hair if he wants to win this.
 
I am sure even if Ronaldo wins the WC with Portugal, people will still argue on whether Messi is better :drool:
 
wub1234 said:
BTW talking about the last World Cup, it is very hard to say who was the best player as it is subjective. But whoscored.com provides a statistical analysis of the players. Here it is for the 2014 World Cup:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...rStatistics/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2014

GoubzED.png


Here are the statistics for the 2015 Copa America:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...yerStatistics/International-Copa-America-2015

EGwZIUU.png


They don't have statistics for the Copa Centenario, but Messi scored 5 goals and got 4 assists in this tournament, it was his best ever tournament and he was clearly the best player.

So Messi has effectively been the best player statistically at three separate international tournaments. Here's where Ronaldo was in Euro 2016:

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...tics/International-European-Championship-2016

q51njWf.png


This is the problem of comparing individuals in a team sport. Almost certainly Messi will never win anything with Argentina, but his performances in tournaments have been better than Ronaldo, at least statistically.

Obviously the current World Cup is an exception, but there is no player who would do anything in this Argentina team. If Ronaldo was playing in this team, he would do exactly what Aguero did; barely touch the ball (Aguero touched it 7 times in the first-half against Croatia). In fact, they wouldn't even be in the World Cup because he would never have been able to do what Messi did against Ecuador.
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Just proves my point, Ronaldo was nothing more than a cog in that Portugal team he played his part like everyone else did in the team

Messi was the best player at the 2014 world cup, he won the award and whoscored has the stats to show he's number 1
 
Vialli_92 said:
I think overall he was as good as anyone, the only one I would say deserved it as much as him was probably Rodriguez but he didn't make it as far which played a part in not receiving it
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I was talking for 2010. In 14, I think that Robben and James were quite better as was Muller. And when the business started (KO stage) so were Mascherano and Kroos.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Just proves my point, Ronaldo was nothing more than a cog in that Portugal team he played his part like everyone else did in the team

Messi was the best player at the 2014 world cup, he won the award and whoscored has the stats to show he's number 1
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Messi played 7 games, scored 4 and assisted 1.

James played 4 games, scored 6 and assisted 2.

You "Messi was the best player of the tournament, look at the stats!"

Nothing you say on this topic can be taken seriously.
 
Both are fantastic players. Best two of this generation or most generations for that matter.

But Ronaldo right now reminds me of a prime Jordan. He demands the ball and makes things happen. He's got that killer instinct.

Messi is like LeBron. Once in a generation talent. Drags his team along but something is missing. That last step up to change games on his own.

Fans of both these players will always be split and can never see the other point. We're truly lucky to see such great players through their prime. I've never seen Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Best et all play in their prime so I can never truly say how they'd do. But these two are a class apart.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
If ever you needed evidence that stats can be a load of bollocks, here is a fine example.
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Yet stats will generally back up what history has consistently claimed who are the best players when people have delved in a bit deeper into the history of the game statistically. So you shouldn't get upset when it doesn't quite rank things the way you want them......generally not flawless, but also generally will come to very similar results.

There is a reason why everyone everywhere is paying big for analysts of these numbers. They do tell you so much.
 
Kush said:
The mental aspect is often laughed at but I feel it's perhaps the most important attribute of being a footballer. It's inevitable as a player you'll have bad games, miss a big chance or make a big mistake. How you react to it is what counts, Messi's reaction to Copa Final defeat was to call it quits. To say he doesn't have the bottle to perform in pressure matches would obviously be ludicrous but there's another bloke who performs in those crunch situations more than Messi which is something his supporters have trouble accepting.
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Many players considered doing the same, Aguero being one. There was (and possibily still is) a shitload more going on with the AFA that I think pushed Messi into doing that. Something is rotten in that camp and who knows Messi may be the cause and not the solution but he wasn't the only one who reacted that way and Kun who was going as well is probably Argentina's best player so far in this one (which is not great considering he's having a 5/10 WC individually)
 
Zen said:
Yet stats will generally back up what history has consistently claimed who are the best players when people have delved in a bit deeper into the history of the game statistically. So you shouldn't get upset when it doesn't quite rank things the way you want them......generally not flawless, but also generally will come to very similar results.

There is a reason why everyone everywhere is paying big for analysts of these numbers. They do tell you so much.
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Nothing wrong with Stats. Whoscored just has a shite rating system.
 
How many of the reactionaries here are just wumming a bit, and how many are deadly serious? I can't tell at this point.
 
breakout67 said:
Mustafi is the 3rd highest rated defender according to Whoscored ffs. It's a useless system.
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You know things are getting desperate when posters are resorting to La Liga POTY awards, Adidas performance awards and whoscored. The same website has Neymar as best player in the world according to ratings :lol:
 
Peyroteo said:
As opposed to people like you who think Bale, Neymar and Salah are better than Ronaldo... those are completely objective and perfectly understand football :lol:
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I know that you don't speak English as your first language, so I will assume that you didn't understand what I said. Even though I've corrected you four times.

I didn't say Bale was a better player than Ronaldo, I said that if he was indulged to the same degree as Ronaldo in the Real Madrid team, and played every minute of every game, he would probably score as many goals.

If you remember, Bale played in a worse team than Ronaldo in Euro 2014, and was statistically the most successful player of the tournament for Wales when indulged in this way, whereas Ronaldo was the 51st best player of the tournament statistically, so I don't find this statement to be controversial.

I didn't say Neymar and Salah are better than Ronaldo, I said that you could argue that they are better than Ronaldo, as they are technically superior players with more to their game than Ronaldo. I also said that I wouldn't necessarily say this myself. I certainly wouldn't say that Salah is better because he's had one excellent season, whereas Ronaldo has been a brilliant player for many years. I think the time is coming where Neymar will go past Ronaldo, and indeed will probably replace him at Real Madrid, but I'm not sure this point has been reached yet. I merely said that you could argue this.

However, you can't argue with anything in my previous post, as it's simply a statistical fact that Messi led La Liga in key passes, assists, goals, free-kicks scored, and completed dribbles last season, which is completely unique. It was absolutely unique across all major leagues, because Messi is a unique player, whereas Ronaldo is a particularly good forward and goalscorer, but quite replaceable by several other strikers.

Obviously you're Portugese and want to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi for some nationalistic or patriotic reason, but if you cannot accept that Messi is a more complete and technically superior player then you're just making yourself look stupid.
 
Dybala, Higuain, Aguero, Mascherano, Di Maria, Biglia, Banega, Fazio, Otamendi. does he need the help of 6 infinity stones too?

Ronaldo is goat
 
Kush said:
The mental aspect is often laughed at but I feel it's perhaps the most important attribute of being a footballer. It's inevitable as a player you'll have bad games, miss a big chance or make a big mistake. How you react to it is what counts, Messi's reaction to Copa Final defeat was to call it quits. To say he doesn't have the bottle to perform in pressure matches would obviously be ludicrous but there's another bloke who performs in those crunch situations more than Messi which is something his supporters have trouble accepting.
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The mental aspect is the most overrated characteristic of a footballer and it is mostly brought up by people as a lazy argument. Some of the greatest footballers were sensitive and introvert characters. It is always the same.

"Oh, look at XYZ's body language. I know he played some good passes and so on, but we lost so he is to be blamed. He should play more like ZYX. I mean, he may have misplaced half his passes, ran less and left his position constantly, but at least he did look like he tried!"

Besides that, the fact that someone is no bird of paradise like Ronaldo, Ibra or Maradona doesn't make him a bad leader. Look at someone like Andres Iniesta, Xavi or Philipp Lahm. Very shy and quiet but responsible individuals who lead their teams to great accomplishments. I'm pretty sure someone like Maradona or Ronaldo would not work as a leader in a team with characters like Germany or Spain.
 
Zen said:
Yet stats will generally back up what history has consistently claimed who are the best players when people have delved in a bit deeper into the history of the game statistically. So you shouldn't get upset when it doesn't quite rank things the way you want them......generally not flawless, but also generally will come to very similar results.

There is a reason why everyone everywhere is paying big for analysts of these numbers. They do tell you so much.
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I haven't said who I think the best player in history is so I've no idea what you're talking about.

What I AM saying is that the Whoscored shit posted above is a load of bollocks. In no way was Messi the best player at the last World Cup.
 
padr81 said:
Your acting like Ronaldo has actually done something at a WC Messi hasn't... I'd like to be enlightened to what it is?
Messi 3 terrible group stages, 1 excellent group stage. Ronaldo 3 terrible group stages, 1 excellent one thus far (that's not over).

Messi has scored in 2 CL finals, Ronaldo 3 (one of which was a 120th minute peno with the tie dead.)

Their records in big games and big finals are very similar.
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Ronaldo plays for Portugal, not Argentina. Expectations couldn't be more different.

Their goal records in the CL knockouts are incredibly different and it's the main reason Ronaldo's played in 6 CL finals to Messi's 3.

Ronaldo didn't have 3 terrible WC group stages and he never had one as bad as Messi's currently having. Even when he was on one knee. He was great for the whole tournament in 2006, so much so that after the great games he had in the group stages in 2006 the Netherlands players kicked the shit out of him and he was out of the pitch by the 20th minute in what started the battle of Nuremberg. Then he was decisive in the quarters vs England and was by far our best player in the semifinal against France outshining the likes of Figo, Zidane or Henry.
 
Revan said:
They scored 2 goals in all four matches, one of which didn't have much to do with Messi.

That team reached the final cause of defense, not attack. And there aren't many - if any - players who contribute less than Messi in defense.
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Oh, he didn't?

Pressures opposing player into a bad pass (we're judging defensive effort if we compare him to Masche, so it counts as something, right?), beats two players in midfield, drags 3 players into him, pulling Witsel out of position, Higuain, freed of Witsel's cover makes Belgium's LB close in, leaving more space for Di Maria who now gets the ball in an advantage situation.

"But he wasn't the scorer, neither gave the direct assist", because Messi, playing as deep as a midfielder (it's in that video) has to score, we're going to disregard anything he does in that position, doesn't matter he wins the ball back, dribbles two players and attracts 3 guys, which opens that play up for Argentina :lol:.
 
vk20legend said:
Both are fantastic players. Best two of this generation or most generations for that matter.

But Ronaldo right now reminds me of a prime Jordan. He demands the ball and makes things happen. He's got that killer instinct.

Messi is like LeBron. Once in a generation talent. Drags his team along but something is missing. That last step up to change games on his own.

Fans of both these players will always be split and can never see the other point. We're truly lucky to see such great players through their prime. I've never seen Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Best et all play in their prime so I can never truly say how they'd do. But these two are a class apart.
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It's true actually.

Messi has always been more Lebron-like. He can dominate like no other, but when the going gets tough, sometimes he just checks out.

His teams are highly dependent on him almost to a fault. Messi has become a conundrum lately. It's actually easier to build a team around Ronaldo than Messi.
 
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