It's not based on names. It's based on what they do on the pitch, and so if you think it's inflated, then it must be because you disagree with how good those actions really were.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Ronaldo has already finished above Messi 6 times in the last 11 years in Baloon D'or voting.
Where have I pushed a Ronaldo narrative or failed to praise Messi? Point me to the posts, please.
Messi being awarded that trophy was a joke at the time and treated as such by pretty much everyone.
You could see the embarrassment upon collecting that.
Wow you guys amaze me at your inability to ever praise Messi for anything and push your Ronaldo narative[/QUOTE]
Come on he was clearly not the best player at the last world cup. There's no harm in pointing that out. Even the man himself looked like he wanted the Earth to swallow him rather than have to walk up and collect that award.[/QUOTE]
He did just lose a world cup final
Have to say using Vialli's logic, this is spot on. If Lewandowski is to be judged based on his game vs. Senegal and Ronaldo was to be judged against Iceland during Euros 2016, Messi has to be judged on his performances so far.Argentina beat Chile in the group stage without Messi and lose in the final with him. That we do know.
They only need one, if Ronnie has an off day. I just have a sneaky feeling. They'll defend much better than anything Portugal have faced so far and despite my earlier praising them I thought Portugal were poor vs Morocco. Portugal also seem to need to be the side without the ball to thrive and vs Iran it will be two teams who don't want it, it will be an interesting if somewhat uneasy on the eye game.
I think people are underestmiating how shockingly bad the Argentinean team is right now. The only they are still called a big team is because they are Argentina.
The answer is obvious:
Ronaldo would do roughly what Lukaku does now, except that he's obviously a better goalscorer so would almost certainly score more goals. But given that United were pretty crap for two-thirds of last season, we don't really know how many chances he would get. We can say quite confidently that he wouldn't get anywhere near the number of chances that he gets for Real Madrid.
Whereas if you sign Messi, you now have the best passer in the world, the best dribbler in the world, the most creative player in the world, the player who broke the La Liga free-kick scoring record last season, and someone who has consistently scored 40-50 goals from the number 10 position, while also topping numerous other statistical categories.
Bear in mind as well that Messi has been Spanish player of the year for season after season. You can argue that Ronaldo has performed better in the Champions League (I don't necessarily accept this, as it's misleading to look at team performances and goals scored, and then draw a conclusion from this), but Messi has massively outperformed him in La Liga. If you sign Messi then you're getting a considerably more complete player, who has performed week in, week out at an incredible level for over a decade, in a way that no other player has ever matched in the history of football. And the league is obviously more important to United at this point in time, and indeed historically and culturally.
Whereas if you sign Ronaldo, you're getting an extremely good target man, who is nearly three years older.
Anyone who would choose Ronaldo over Messi either doesn't understand football, or is incapable of being objective for some reason.
But he has the trophies to show it. Don't backpedal on your stupid arguments now.
If that Golden Ball for Messi means he was genuinely the best player at the World Cup, then Ronaldo's six Ballon d'Ors mean that he has been a better player than Messi, who has five.
I don't agree with the narrative then, Messi has performed well too and Ronaldo has had his bad days too. I just think taking everything into account Ronaldo has outperformed Messi at international level and I was saying that before this World Cup started.
Lionel Messi was not the best player at the World Cup and the Argentine won Fifa's Golden Ball award for marketing reasons, says Diego Maradona.
A dejected Messi picked up the gong for outstanding player of the tournament minutes after Mario Gotze's extra-time winner condemned Argentina to defeat in the World Cup final.
"I would give heaven and earth to Leo, but when marketing people want him to win something he didn't (deserve to) win, it is unfair," said Maradona, the winner of the Golden Ball when Argentina won the World Cup in 1986.
"I could see that he didn't want to go up and collect it (the award)."
Messi scored four goals in Brazil, all of them coming in the group stages of the competition. The Barcelona man missed a glorious chance to put Argentina ahead at the Maracana in the second-half, capping off a disappointing run of matches in the late stages of the competition.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...or-marketing-reasons-says-Diego-Maradona.html
A dejected Messi picked up the gong for outstanding player of the tournament minutes after Mario Gotze's extra-time winner condemned Argentina to defeat in the World Cup final.
"I would give heaven and earth to Leo, but when marketing people want him to win something he didn't (deserve to) win, it is unfair," said Maradona, the winner of the Golden Ball when Argentina won the World Cup in 1986.
"I could see that he didn't want to go up and collect it (the award)."
Messi scored four goals in Brazil, all of them coming in the group stages of the competition. The Barcelona man missed a glorious chance to put Argentina ahead at the Maracana in the second-half, capping off a disappointing run of matches in the late stages of the competition.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...or-marketing-reasons-says-Diego-Maradona.html
There we go again with the Messi brigade who cannot be reasoned with.
I'm not saying it'll happen, if Ronaldo scores in every game and leads Portugal to the World Cup in a few weeks, will you change your mind?
You wouldn't, would you?
We are 2 games in and in 2014 Messi was unreal in the groups. We'll have to see how Ronaldo finishes it before calling it his WC. Atm it could be Diego Costa's world cup, of even Cheryshev's, possibly Modric's . Portugal might not get out of the group, all it takes is an Iranian set piece and bit of luck.
Absolutely, there's still a real chance that Portugal don't even make it through. Iran were surprisingly impressive against Spain once they went behind and they have some chance of pulling off the upset. Either way I am sure Ronaldo would go down fighting every step of the way. I was really disappointed by Messi's attitude tonight.
If Ronaldo signed for Stoke he would still bang in 40 goals a season. Messi not so much.
Well then I disagree with that because Messi and Ronaldo have both performed well outside of international finals. Both have yet to perform in an international final. Ronaldo didn't quite get the chance as was injured, but I can't give him credit for something he didn't do.
Next they'll be telling you Maradona doesn't know anything about football.
I'm not Vialli, but I wouldn't, no. I don't judge players based on team accomplishments but on their individual abilities and I'm of the opinion that Messi is better than Ronaldo in the most important disciplines of a footballer.
Well there is always other arguments like "2 of them were penalty", "1 of them hit him accidentally", "The goalkeeper was only 6ft height"
He doesn't get credit for winning the final, but surely Messi gets discredit for losing multiple finals?
He would have to significantly be the best player on the pitch and be the one making the plays happen, if he's just waiting for service mostly and waiting for something to happen I won't be able to call him better than Messi ever
He would no doubt have a greater legacy than Messi even I wouldn't be able to deny that, as a player Messi for me is just much superior
Good thing Messi would contribute in more than just goals as he isn't just a pure goal scorer eh?
You're seeing what you want to see, I guess most on here have seen enough of Messi to see when he is playing at his best and when he isn't. Messi had a great WC last time out but you make it sound like he put in a Zidane/Maradona/Pele level performance in a WC which somehow most are not recognizing. Again, there is no conspiracy at large here where people don't want to give credit to a player. People have seen Messi play better and we saw player put in better performances than what Messi put in 2014 WC. James Rodriguez for starters.
Also, if I'm being completely honest if any other player put performances like Messi did in WC 14 he wouldn't have won the Golden ball.
The answer is obvious:
Ronaldo would do roughly what Lukaku does now, except that he's obviously a better goalscorer so would almost certainly score more goals. But given that United were pretty crap for two-thirds of last season, we don't really know how many chances he would get. We can say quite confidently that he wouldn't get anywhere near the number of chances that he gets for Real Madrid.
Whereas if you sign Messi, you now have the best passer in the world, the best dribbler in the world, the most creative player in the world, the player who broke the La Liga free-kick scoring record last season, and someone who has consistently scored 40-50 goals from the number 10 position, while also topping numerous other statistical categories.
Bear in mind as well that Messi has been Spanish player of the year for season after season. You can argue that Ronaldo has performed better in the Champions League (I don't necessarily accept this, as it's misleading to look at team performances and goals scored, and then draw a conclusion from this), but Messi has massively outperformed him in La Liga. If you sign Messi then you're getting a considerably more complete player, who has performed week in, week out at an incredible level for over a decade, in a way that no other player has ever matched in the history of football. And the league is obviously more important to United at this point in time, and indeed historically and culturally.
Whereas if you sign Ronaldo, you're getting an extremely good target man, who is nearly three years older.
Anyone who would choose Ronaldo over Messi either doesn't understand football, or is incapable of being objective for some reason.
As opposed to people like you who think Bale, Neymar and Salah are better than Ronaldo... those are completely objective and perfectly understand football
Scoring goals, winning trophies are of secondary importance to standing around?
Yup imho he's been the best player in the first 2 rounds but less than half the teams have even played that. It's Ronaldo's best WC of the 4 he's been at regardless though, his last 3 were kind of like this one for Messi.
Football is a team sport so leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma is all part of the judgement. Another very important factor is the ability to adapt to different teammates, different environment and different challenges. That’s why most of us rank WC results as a very important factor when we judge who’s the GOAT.
Pelé won three WC, scoring goals both in his first and in his last final, twelve years apart. That’s a huge achievement. Maradona almost singlehanded took his NT to a WC trophy 1986. I saw all his games in that tournament and it’s not an overstatement to say that apart from being head and shoulders above every other player around him, he was also a warrior and a general in one persona. His swagger, mentality and charisma was something else. So when comparing Messi it’s hard to overlook Maradona’s WC achievement.
Talanted wise with the ball to his feet and as a playmaker Messi is above Ronaldo. Hands down. But if we include determination, leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma then Maradona and Ronaldo is on another level to Messi. A GOAT can’t give up, he can’t look defeated and he can’t let his team mates down when they need him the most. That’s my view.
Finally. Armando and Cristiano act like superstars, the look like superstars and they perform like superstars when it counts. Just like Michael Jordan and Tom Brady. That’s hard to overlook.
Pelé won three WC, scoring goals both in his first and in his last final, twelve years apart. That’s a huge achievement. Maradona almost singlehanded took his NT to a WC trophy 1986. I saw all his games in that tournament and it’s not an overstatement to say that apart from being head and shoulders above every other player around him, he was also a warrior and a general in one persona. His swagger, mentality and charisma was something else. So when comparing Messi it’s hard to overlook Maradona’s WC achievement.
Talanted wise with the ball to his feet and as a playmaker Messi is above Ronaldo. Hands down. But if we include determination, leadership, winning mentality, swagger and charisma then Maradona and Ronaldo is on another level to Messi. A GOAT can’t give up, he can’t look defeated and he can’t let his team mates down when they need him the most. That’s my view.
Finally. Armando and Cristiano act like superstars, the look like superstars and they perform like superstars when it counts. Just like Michael Jordan and Tom Brady. That’s hard to overlook.
He can be the one to create space.
Do we think Portugal's opponents set out to mark Nani or Quaresma?
If its not happening then make it happen. He did it in the final run in during the qualification stage after all
It's different not performing in a final because you were injured and not performing because you simply didn't but that's fair enough. Ronaldo won't get a chance to play another final anyway, Messi has a Copa America next year which Argentina are good enough to get there.
Messi winning the golden ball in 2014 was hilarious, because Messi had a disgusted look on his face when he was awarded it as if he clearly knew he didn't deserve it. I'd consider Neymar and Rodriguez to have been better than him in the 2014 world cup.
Not a hope, maybe in the championship where they will have one of the best sides but thats a myth. Both would excel at Stoke in the Championship, but would do well but not close on 40 goals for Stoke in the Premier League.
Holt gave it to Mascherano.
Nah, Ron in 2006 was better than Messi in any world Cup bar 2014. And it could be argued that Ronaldo this year is already close at matching Messi 2014.
Now we're going with Maradona to articulate valid opinions?.
Jesus, if you did the amount of coke and drank the amount of booze he did (and at least drinking, we know he still does) you could end up saying Ronaldo is a tap in merchant, that's how messed up that head is. He has changed his mind about Messi as many times as we can breath a day.
They scored 2 goals in all four matches, one of which didn't have much to do with Messi.
That team reached the final cause of defense, not attack. And there aren't many - if any - players who contribute less than Messi in defense.
FIFA considered changing the voting system.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...den-Ball-and-distances-himself-from-vote.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...den-Ball-and-distances-himself-from-vote.html
Since when does Messi play tennis?
That's the objective. The one who scores the goal isn't necessarily the one who contributed the most to it, let alone to the victory or trophy. Messi does so many thinks that help his team which Ronaldo isn't bothered with at all nowadays - and he does them better than Ronaldo did in his younger years when he still cared.
Sorry, that's simply not enough for me to convince me that Ronaldo is better. I'll always rate players like Messi higher than players like the mid to late career Ronaldo because I think dribblings, passes, one twos and so on are much more difficult things to do than converting chances.
Messi was really good in 2010. The narrative just become a "Messi didn't score, therefore he was bad" kind of thing.
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