I agree with this. He isn’t the same player anymore as a few years ago but still, topscorer in La Liga this for example and won the double in Spain.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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While i think Ronaldo is the better player right now, this is hardly the time to bring it up as when he faced Iceland himself he was every bit as bad, if not worse.
Not unbiased, just that you make bad lists.Oh, and before I get accused of being a Ronaldo fanboy, and hating Messi, in 2012 when @Cheesy created the thread on the best players of all time, I had Messi 1st, and Ronaldo 6th.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/redcafes-top-50-footballers-of-all-time.359988/page-3
No idea why I had Pele that low, and why I had Luis Ronaldo and Zidane in top 10.
And in 2016, when we voted on best current player in the world, I had Suarez 1st (Ronaldo second, Messi third)
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/redcafes-best-players-in-the-world-voting.418079/
So there, I am totally unbiased
Playing with better players, but after watching both play I'm not sure messi plays in the better team
Slightly better maybe but this isn't somethine one should choose to say after today
You've epitomised my post in one reply. Good job. Do you say the same when Messi scores brace in a weekend and Ronaldo doesn't?
They're still supposedly much better than Portugal players wise, even if their starts are underperfoming, it's their problem.
On Ballon D'Ors which is by far the most important individual award and players like Ronaldinho cried when they won it, it is 5-5 between them, with Ronaldo favorite to win the 6th.
It is really really close, and a lot depends if people give more weight to the peak (Messi) or longevity and doing in non perfect situations (Ronaldo).
Personally, I had Messi way ahead until 2013 or so, since when Ronaldo was closing the gap, to the point that I pretty much had them as equals (with maybe slight advantage Messi) at the beginning of this season. Now I have Ronaldo ahead with a marginal advantage.
True
Do you?
Lol, that too.Not unbiased, just that you make bad lists.
Patrice Evra talks Ronaldo vs. Messi:
This tournament will be important to their legacies I feel.
Round one to Ronaldo.
Round one to Ronaldo.
It can't be argued that Ronaldo hasn't been the better player post 2015, and Messi better before that, apart for a few seasons where Ronaldo won the CL for us and Real.
Guess we can't really conclude the debate until both players retire to fully evaluate.
Guess we can't really conclude the debate until both players retire to fully evaluate.
Totally agree with Evra's take on their respective mentalities: Ronaldo relishes the pressure, Messi doesn't.
It's absurd to suggest he crumbles under the pressure but I think he finds it more of a chore. Ronaldo loves that it all rests on him. They obviously exist in very different environments where Messi is not only responsible for the clinical moments but for every phase of play, so the pressure is much more constant. Ronaldo has been the key player for over a decade but he's never been the player people look to every time they get the ball. Both he and his team-mates know to limit his involvement to where he can be most devastating. Messi hasn't had that kind of role for a long time and I reckon that takes a much bigger toll.
I don't think Ronaldo has ever been a better player than Messi at their respective peaks, but I think he might well end up being the greater player. Still a long way to go but I didn't think that was possible years ago. What he's done since then is insane.
It's absurd to suggest he crumbles under the pressure but I think he finds it more of a chore. Ronaldo loves that it all rests on him. They obviously exist in very different environments where Messi is not only responsible for the clinical moments but for every phase of play, so the pressure is much more constant. Ronaldo has been the key player for over a decade but he's never been the player people look to every time they get the ball. Both he and his team-mates know to limit his involvement to where he can be most devastating. Messi hasn't had that kind of role for a long time and I reckon that takes a much bigger toll.
I don't think Ronaldo has ever been a better player than Messi at their respective peaks, but I think he might well end up being the greater player. Still a long way to go but I didn't think that was possible years ago. What he's done since then is insane.
This. If I had to chose a player to take a penalty (or indeed even play the game) in a cup final or some clutch game, I know who I would choose.
I know it’s just been one game in the WC for them, but one carried his team almost single handedly against Spain, and the other couldn’t score a penalty against Iceland.
Ronaldo: 06/07, 07/08, 13/14, 15/16, 16/17
Messi: 08/09, 09/10, 10/11, 11/12, 14/15
Those are the clear ones IMO. Even 2013/14 for Ronaldo ended with a horrible world cup while Messi had a great world cup, but Ronaldo still won the ballon dor, while in 14/15 Ronaldo also had a great season and more goals while Messi won the CL. 12/13 was probably the closest to a draw between them (Ronaldo won the ballon for in 2013), while this season Messi without a doubt was far better in the first half and in the league overall but then Ronaldo had his champions league knockout stages and then won the CL. So its tight.
Agree with you overall though, just wanted to put it into individual seasons.
I know and I don't disagree fundamentally but the truth is what it is. When they play for Argentina they're shit so therefore I wouldn't even call them help.
Messi was let down by his poor teammates vs Ronaldo dragged his poor teammates
Significantly higher peak? Doesn’t have anything to do with why said peak happened when it did, does it? Weird how every other player typically has their peak come later in their careers, but Messi’s oddly comes so early in his career. Hmmm, doesn’t have anything to do with a certain group of teammates he had then, those that made up the best national team of all time? Any chance they helped raise this peak? If Ronaldo ever had the chance to play with such teammates, would his peak be significantly higher too?
Also, I’m assuming “significantly higher” is in reference to Messi’s scoring exploits. If he was so good then... why couldn’t he lead Barcelona to back to back CL titles, while Ronaldo was able to take Real othe THREE IN A ROW?
Oh I know, because Ronaldo doesn’t score shitloads of meaningless goals like Messi did when he scored his 91 goals. What’s so amazing about scoring buckets of goals against Getafe and the like if you can’t even lead your team, the best team in the continent... to CL victory in said season?
Ronaldo delivers against the best. It’s why he’s King of the Champions League. He doesn’t need 91 goal year calendars if they don’t win his team trophies.
And fortunately, he’ll be rightfully remembered as the best when all is said and done.
For one reason only. Because he deserves it.
Ronaldo isn't even in the GOAT argument. He's a highly effective forward, but ultimately a limited player.
Before there was all of the ridiculous hype of the modern era, there was a player called Gerd Muller. He was a more prolific goalscorer than Ronaldo for both club and country, with a better goals per game record. Muller scored 653 goals in 707 appearances, plus 68 for Germany in 62 appearances. He also won the European Cup several times, and the European Championships and the World Cup. And he was decisive in the World Cup, scoring 10 goals in 1970, and the winning goal in the 1974 World Cup final, holding the all-time World Cup scoring record for 32 years. Bear in mind that Ronaldo hadn't scored in the World Cup before yesterday.
Yet I have never on one occasion ever heard anyone suggest that Gerd Muller is the greatest footballer of all-time because it was understood that he was nowhere near as good technically as Cruyff, who played in the same era. People actually understood that there is more to the game than putting the ball in the back of the net back then. And bear in mind that there was a much bigger gulf in goalscoring between Muller and Cruyff than there is between Messi and Ronaldo. In fact, Messi has outscored Ronaldo, particularly when operating as a forward, and still has a better goals per game ratio. Even though he plays as a number 10, and Ronaldo is a pure poacher. Messi basically plays Ozil's position, and also scores 45 goals per season.
And everyone knows that Messi is a better passer, dribbler, and free-kick taker than Ronaldo, has better control, creates more chances, gets more assists, contributes far more to the game, and scores more difficult goals, far more regularly. Even obsessive Ronaldo supporters on this thread have never challenged this because it is blatantly obvious.
That's why Messi has completely dominated Spanish football over the last decade, winning the player of the year numerous times, I think it will be nine once he wins it for the 2017-18 season, which is inevitable, whereas Ronaldo has won it once. That's why in The Guardian's review of the season, the following was said:
Ronaldo is a great player, but he will not go down as even close to being the greatest of all-time, and technically he is miles behind Messi, and always will be. That's why Messi is always bracketed with Maradona and Pele, whereas Ronaldo is compared to Messi.
Players who are the only one playing football in the team tend to be wasteful. He was one penalty shot away from very good performance in people's eyes. He was basically their only player who was noticable on the pitch, for good and bad.
Yep, agree with this. 12/13 season was almost a draw, to be fair, and I think that Ballon D'Or should have gone to Ribery (same as I think that in 2010 it should have gone to Sneijder, with Xavi and Iniesta behind him).
I would give this season to Ronaldo, significantly better in UCL defeats significantly better in the league.
05-06 should go to Ronaldo too, but Messi was very young back then and despite his promise, his season was cut short from Chelsea, and then he didn't play in the latter stages of UCL and the league.
Edit: I don't think that Messi really had a world cup in 2014. Better than Ronaldo by a country mile, but Argies scored just 2 knockout goals in the tournament, 1 of which was an assist by Messi. I don't remember him getting even close to scoring, and the final was quite boring, the only clear thing I remember are the goal and Higuain messing that chance. It looked to me more a political decision of FIFA trying to create the new generation Pele, rather than a just award. The likes of Muller and Robben were significantly better than him in the tournament, and to be fair, neither of those were legendary performances from a World Cup (not even near Zidane 2006, with from what I've heard is not in the level of Garrincga 62, Pele 70, Cruyff 74 or Maradona 86).
Messi moves like a retired player at times. He is almost free of defensive duties. Ronaldo's movement requires much more energy. He always runs further than Messi and has more sprints too. Mentally it might be more difficult to play both as a playmaker and a forward but Messi conserves energy by running less than all players bar the keepers.
Ok alright bro.
That's he best line I could possibly relate to.
Well said.
Well no, because I don't say what you said above. Period.
I even said Ronaldo had a GOAT-like performance yesterday vs Spain. Many people on here wouldn't dream to say that about Messi when he has performances like that.
I was having lunch and only saw this now... you're really unbelievable
You call me childish, fecking hell.I didn't prove you wrong, Ronaldo did. Do you want me to go back and quote some of your posts? Now that would be childish but when put to face on how completely wrong they were on something maybe you'll understand why I'm talking the way I'm talking.
Praising
Your praise for his performance yesterday was to downplay everything he did and then claim you hadn't seen him do any better in years...
Couldn't agree more.
Most people in the poll voted when Ronaldo was in poorer form and Messi was in great form. Madrid were playing like crap and Barcelona were great. That's why. Ronaldo is also much more disliked due to his antics which will have an impact.
And I said it wasn't about one game and one goal because it's about a series of games and goals.
It's not ok, not at all. What I said perfectly encapsulated the game that just happened and it is a big difference between them that too many people ignore but it has a huge impact on how both of their teams play.
Ballon D'ors are a fair point but the GOAT status will be decided by people's perception more than anything else. Pele for example is way ahead of Maradona by awards, goals, and trophies yet people still can't decide who is better. Same is going to happen with this debate unless something drastic happens like Ronaldo doing what he did yesterday for the whole tournament.
oh now it’s because Messi’s level dropped? How about he no longer has Xaviesta to make him look amazing?Are you saying that he had a good performance? If that's a good performance by his standars, then he is clearly inferior to Ronaldo. For a start, his movement isn't good at all.
I wanted Messi to have a great game today and wish him to have a great tournament. He was disappointing today though.
I actually agree with that. First time watching Argentina in a long while and it's crazy how he's essentially picking up the ball from the defence and trying to be the one to score. Good shots and everything from outside the box, he has the technical ability to score those, but it's just rendering the whole team a bit useless.
They really need a system that isn't essentially pass to Messi and see what he can do, because it's not a good system for anyone. I'm not sure Sampaoli is the man for that though, playing both Mascherano and Biglia against a conservative Iceland side and only bringing Higuan on with 7 minutes to go is stupid.
Watching Portugal though Ronaldo's versatility does really stand out. For Real he largely plays as a striker, but for Portugal he shows he can play both the striker and the creator. Messi doesn't really have the in-box versatility that Ronaldo does. I'm sure Ronaldo would make a solid defender or midfielder if he was asked to play those roles.
That said, as always have to sign off by saying I think they're both great before the fanbois pounce.
The last 24 hours should put this argument to bed.
Messi was perhaps the best in the world during Pep’s Barca, but since then Ronaldo won four CL’s with Madrid and the Euros with Portugal.
Messi is a phenomenal player, but melts like butter under pressure. Ronaldo is a phenomenal player and an ice blooded leader.
Ronaldo owned Spain, one of the best teams in the world all by himself, while Messi failed against Iceland with the help of world class players like Aguero and Di Maria.
Messi was perhaps the best in the world during Pep’s Barca, but since then Ronaldo won four CL’s with Madrid and the Euros with Portugal.
Messi is a phenomenal player, but melts like butter under pressure. Ronaldo is a phenomenal player and an ice blooded leader.
Ronaldo owned Spain, one of the best teams in the world all by himself, while Messi failed against Iceland with the help of world class players like Aguero and Di Maria.
Dear Cristiano,
How do you score a penalty?
Plz reply.
Leo'
How do you score a penalty?
Plz reply.
Leo'
FFS, it was a draw in a group where both teams will comfortably get 7 points.
Same old arguments from Messi hardcore supporter, where technical superiority = greatest of all time, regardless of everything else. Perhaps not the appropriate time to make such one-sided statement too right after Messi poor show and penalty miss against a minor team vs Ronaldo jaw-dropping performance and hattrick against one of the favourites on the biggest stage.
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I always find this argument incredibly dense because it totally ignores the player Ronaldo was at United. The free-roaming, all dribbling creative winger. To say he's just a 'highly effective forward, but ultimately a limited player' imo just completely ignores how good he was for us, especially in his last three seasons.
The fact that he's been a world class winger and a world class forward should be a plus for him, not a negative.
Totally agree with the sentiment but that overlooks one important dimension of international football. The inherent limitations that exist in international football are that the possible pool of players is so limited that teams are typically very imbalanced, and the components of that squad have very little cohesion because they spend so little time together. On top of that the leadership structure becomes entirely different because the manager has so little time to establish his imprint on the team. There's loads of stories of great national teams that more or less managed themselves, and the genius of the manager was creating the environment for that to happen. There's a reason why really successful international managers struggled so much more on the club side.
What Cruyff, Pelé, Platini, Maradona, Eusébio, Beckenbauer etc. did on the international stage which cemented their legacy was impose themselves on their national team in a way Messi or Ronaldo have never come close to. It wasn't their success that was so impressive, it was the fact that they were quite clearly the key to making those teams tick, they created that cohesion, they were able to rise above the limitations of national football and create something beautiful. It's difficult to know how to fit Ronaldo into that discussion because he's the only player who has never really been the focal point of the attack, so it's much harder to define what his influence should be and what it is. But for Messi it's clear as day. They need him to be the leader and to bring it all together and he doesn't have the personality to relish that role, and that in itself is a major cause of their lack of success IMO.
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