Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Rito]

Are some people really trying to imply that Ronaldo has better players around him in NT than what Messi has?

In that case, isn't Messi supposed to "elevate the players around him to stratospheric levels" , like the way he does in Barcelona, where each and every success is attributable to him?

You can't have it both ways, people.

 

[bosnian_red]

Still see Messi as the all round better player, however, honestly I'm starting to believe Ronaldo has the better career so far, 5 CLs, Euro, loads of records, same number of Balloon D'Or with a big chance to gain one more over Messi. His career, number wise, I think it's better tbh.

Basically this. Ronaldo has probably had just about a better career, but at their absolute peak, Messi is king IMO. He scored fecking 91 goals in a calendar year. They've both been incredible for the past decade, but that peak for Messi eclipses anything either of them have done since. The way their careers have panned out will see them as easily up there with Pele and Maradona as the all time best players. When it comes to the very best.... I think it goes to Messi, simply because his absolute peak was higher then anyone has ever reached.

 

[Treble]

Ronnie has started the WC in a fantastic manner. Watch now Messi winning it.

 

[Mindhunter]

Basically this. Ronaldo has probably had just about a better career, but at their absolute peak, Messi is king IMO. He scored fecking 91 goals in a calendar year. They've both been incredible for the past decade, but that peak for Messi eclipses anything either of them have done since. The way their careers have panned out will see them as easily up there with Pele and Maradona as the all time best players. When it comes to the very best.... I think it goes to Messi, simply because his absolute peak was higher then anyone has ever reached.

Not just that. He is South American, has more skills in his repertoire, and considered exotic. Ronaldo on the other hand is pure efficiency.

If I have to watch a movie, I will pick Messi. If I have to select one who will play for my life, it will be Ronaldo every single time.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I feel this world cup is the one the two best GOAT will finally deliver.

 

[Renegade]

Is Ronaldo really the better finisher like everyone says? I don’t have any stats at hand but isn’t his shot conversion much worse? Using last night isn’t really good example as De Gea threw that routine save in the net. Fair play to Ronaldo for making the comparisons between the two so much closer. Funny to think we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion if Higuain finished his chance 4 years ago. That’s probably what I find most funny about the argument and how it’s decided who’s the best between the 2. When all is said and done, Eder and Higuain will probably decide who goes down as the better player.

 

[Rito]

Is Ronaldo really the better finisher like everyone says? I don’t have any stats at hand but isn’t his shot conversion much worse? Using last night isn’t really good example as De Gea threw that routine save in the net. Fair play to Ronaldo for making the comparisons between the two so much closer. Funny to think we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion if Higuain finished his chance 4 years ago. That’s probably what I find most funny about the argument and how it’s decided who’s the best between the 2. When all is said and done, Eder and Higuain will probably decide who goes down as the better player.

Yes, let's just forget Higuain was the scorer against Belgium in the Quarters without which Messi wouldn't even have appeared in the finals, that Messi scored a grand total of zero goals in the knock-out stages, that messi himself missed a relatively simple chance in the finals which he will bury 99 times out of 100 while playing for Barcelona; or that messi missed in the tie-breakers of Copa and then went to "retirement". But hey, let us just blame Higuain to suit our narrative.

 

[MrEleson]

The people blaming higuain. Why couldn’t messi do something in the final himself? From what I recall, Messi also missed a huge chance?

 

[Rito]

The people blaming higuain. Why couldn’t messi do something in the final himself? From what I recall, Messi also missed a huge chance?

We have been brainwashed to think otherwise. After a few years, I am sure some will also forget that messi himself missed in the tie-breaker of Copa and Higuain will be somehow blamed for that as well.

 

[Ahsan_6386]

It's funny how many excuses are made for Messi when Messi fails on the big occasions . While Ronaldo is literally thrown under the bus at the first sight of trouble . He wins champions league but according to most he is still past it . The man has to keep proving himself game after game while Messi keeps getting a free pass when ever it's convenient .

No matter how great the technical flair and natural ease Messi's talent might be . The sheer determination and grit of Ronaldo overpowers it . He is booed and called all sorts of names by opposition fans and is vilified as a cheat and diver at any given point . He channels all the hate and anger into motivation and keeps proving everyone wrong . Mentally I believe he is most strongest in the game right now and maybe of all time . Messi on the other hand is always regarded as the angel and it is depicted at great lengths as to how he can do no wrong . How others are to blame for his struggles and problems . I will be honest I support Ronaldo and Messi equally and like them both but lately I have started to feel Messi is kind of overrated because how easily every one seems to make him the GOAT without him actually winning a big International trophy .

Honestly Ronaldo and Messi both need to win a world cup to be in contention for the trophy of GOAT . People around the world watch the World cup to decide the best . Winning league titles and Champions leagues are great but they are selected viewership . If that was the criteria then Di Stefano would have been the GOAT . In my view both Ronaldo and Messi are still tier 2 and need a world cup win . Tier 1 belongs to Pele, Maradona,Zidane and Beckenbauer . Pele for winning multiple world cups as star player of Brazil and scoring crucial goals . Maradona for single handedly winning the 86 world cup while scoring the greatest world cup goal along with taking his team to another world cup final . Zidane for playing a big part of 98 world cup victory and euro 2000 win .Also single handled taking his team to another world cup final along with winning every trophy possible in club football . Beckenbauer for same reason as Zidane that of leading his team to a world cup victory and another world cup final while winning everything in club football . Also winning the world cup as manager helps his CV .

It's clear that Messi and Ronaldo have done a lot in club football and even inter continental football in Ronaldo's case but history always remembers the world cup legends . Players who inspire their international teams to greatness will always catch the eye of a normal football supporter . I am sure a lot of people will disagree but this is just my view .

 

[Tommy]

Sorry for the daft comparison, but does anyone else get Hendry vs O'Sullivan vibes when comparing the two?

Ronnie is considered by pretty much everyone to be the most naturally gifted snooker player of all time, but is unlikely to match Hendry's world title record, since the latter was just a force of pure motivation & desire to win. That's not to say Hendry lacked natural ability (far from it) or Ronnie lacked drive (well he did at times, but Messi doesn't), but yeah...

For an even dafter comparison, Ronaldo kind of reminds me of John Wick "Ronaldo is a man of focus, commitment, sheer will... something you know very little about. I once saw him score three goals in a world cup group stage match... with a pencil, with a fecking pencil."

 

[Peyroteo]

William was as good as Battaglia during the season, William starts for Portugal while Battaglia doesn't even get called up for Argentina. People complain about Argentina's midfield but there's a bunch of them that would start for us. Argentinian players have no doubt performed at higher standards throughout the season, we just look like a proper team with a coherent system most of the time while Argentina is often the opposite of that.

Messi has it a lot easier being argentinian than Ronaldo does by being portuguse and there shouldn't really be any doubt about that.

 

[royboy16]

Ron can do it with the international team also and that is why if I had to pick between him and Messi to win a game I would pick Ronaldo everytime.

 

[Real Madras]

Ronaldo is the man. Messi better have a plan.

 

[Cal?]

Why doesnt it? Messi puts chances on a plate for them and they all feck them up. If you look at entirely how they play for Argentina, that's how they should be judged as players when discussing Argentina. Also Argentina are dreadful without Messi. They are fecking beyond useless when he isnt on the pitch, while with him they've managed to scrape through to cup finals or even just making the World Cup this year. Messi missed a chunk of qualifiers and they almost fecked it up because of that run of missed games. Needed him to as always put them on his back and do it himself. Messi misses a friendly against Spain, and Spain feck them 6-1.

Look - I think Ronaldo is more influential in terms of bringing the rest up a level and motivating them to play together. But that's also due to the coaching. Messi does his thing all the time, but the others let him down time and time again. He set up multiple sitters in finals for others. It's more on the argentinean coaching and others for their failures then Messi imo.

If you want to make that argument, you can't have it both ways.

Messi misses the Copa America group game against Chile, Argentina win convincingly.

Messi comes back for the final against Chile, Argentina struggle and LOSE.

 

[red4ever 79]

Messi the greatest football player. Messi the better guy

 

[bosnian_red]

If you want to make that argument, you can't have it both ways.

Messi misses the Copa America group game against Chile, Argentina win convincingly.

Messi comes back for the final against Chile, Argentina struggle and LOSE.

That's what I mean though, for every argument for or against one of them, anyone can throw examples (and multiple at that) of the opposite or for or against the other. They've been that good for that long and have done anything that for me, overall, they're impossible to separate on pure "greatest ever".

 

[Adisa]

Take both players out from their resoecresp teams and Argentina have the better team. It's not even a debate.

 

[tenpoless]

I thought We've agreed if Ronaldo is the better one out of the two after Kievtanbul?

 

[Revan]

You seem to be an expert in this football thing.

Perhaps and for real, if ARgentina had Eder instead of Higuain, Messi would have 1 WC and two Copa Americas at the moment. And this is way more probable.

This is embarrassingly stupid.

 

[Revan]

The people blaming higuain. Why couldn’t messi do something in the final himself? From what I recall, Messi also missed a huge chance?

He missed a penalty in the last final, not sure about a chance from open play.

One problem of Messi is that he makes other players worse because he has to be involved in everything and everything needs to be centered to him. That is great when you have a fantastic system like Pep's Barca, but not so when playing for your country with players you train a couple of month per year. Add to it that he is really lazy and it becomes a tactical nightmare.

Ronald's best is not as high as Messi's best, but the nice thing of him is that he is far more flexible, and you can put it on any team and he'll be great, while Messi needs a perfect team, otherwise will try to dribble the entire opposing team which really doesn't work.

 

[IFC 1905]

This is embarrassingly stupid.

You seem to have the better arguments mate, congrats.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Hand to admit Ronaldo gives me more wow moment on the biggest stage than Messi

 

[Jagga7]

Funny to look back now but Ronaldo used to always get criticized for not delivering in the big games. But look at him now.

 

[Revan]

You seem to have the better arguments mate, congrats.

Poor Messi that has to play with Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, Dybala (could have played with Icardi if he wanted so). If only he had the ledendary players that Portugal had, Eder, the other striker whose name I don't know, he would have had won 4 World Cups.

 

[Red Pavan]

You think Higuain, Aguero and Di Maria aren't great players? Your standards of 'great' must be ludicrous.

I should have specified that i was talking about their midfield and defence. Their attacking options are amongst the best of any National team.

 

[Revan]

I should have specified that i was talking about their midfield and defence. Their attacking options are amongst the best of any National team.

A midfield of Mascherano, Banega and Di Maria isn't that bad, at very least as good as Portugal', most likely better. And in defense they have a player playing for City and one for United, at their peak. Portugal as CBs have a player playing in Turkey and one in China, the first being 35, the second 34.

Argies have the best attacking options, and okayish defense and midfield. Portugal have pretty shit options all over the pitch, Ronaldo, but still somehow they are making it work.

The quality of teams is not even close. But people in Messi's camp somehow want us to make us believe that Eder is better than Higuain (Eder who wasn't called for World Cup cause he is pure shit) and Portugal has a better team than Argentina, just to justify Messi's failures in international tournaments.

 

[IFC 1905]

Poor Messi that has to play with Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, Dybala (could have played with Icardi if he wanted so). If only he had the ledendary players that Portugal had, Eder, the other striker whose name I don't know, he would have had won 4 World Cups.

They all underperformed for Argentina, but what can I ask from you? It's obvious you don't even watch our games.

Anyways mate won't argue with you anymore, not worth it.

 

[Red Pavan]

A midfield of Mascherano, Banega and Di Maria isn't that bad, at very least as good as Portugal', most likely better. And in defense they have a player playing for City and one for United, at their peak. Portugal as CBs have a player playing in Turkey and one in China, the first being 35, the second 34.

Argies have the best attacking options, and okayish defense and midfield. Portugal have pretty shit options all over the pitch, Ronaldo, but still somehow they are making it work.

The quality of teams is not even close. But people in Messi's camp somehow want us to make us believe that Eder is better than Higuain (Eder who wasn't called for World Cup cause he is pure shit) and Portugal has a better team than Argentina, just to justify Messi's failures in international tournaments.

I don't know if you this was aimed at my comments or just in general to the tune of this thread. I am in neither camp and i enjoy both of these players without having an agenda against the other.

My main post was simply to point out that this is potentially their final big tournament at their peak - where they can leave their mark.

 

[Boycott]

A midfield of Mascherano, Banega and Di Maria isn't that bad, at very least as good as Portugal', most likely better. And in defense they have a player playing for City and one for United, at their peak. Portugal as CBs have a player playing in Turkey and one in China, the first being 35, the second 34.

Argies have the best attacking options, and okayish defense and midfield. Portugal have pretty shit options all over the pitch, Ronaldo, but still somehow they are making it work.

The quality of teams is not even close. But people in Messi's camp somehow want us to make us believe that Eder is better than Higuain (Eder who wasn't called for World Cup cause he is pure shit) and Portugal has a better team than Argentina, just to justify Messi's failures in international tournaments.

Except he hasn't failed.

Argentina have made the final of the last three tournaments they have played (2014 World Cup, 2015 Copa, 2016 Copa)

Whether you agree with Messi getting the Golden Ball is another topic in 2014. Only James Rodriguez and Muller scored more.


In 2015 Messi scored just once, made three assists and received four MOTM so he must have had a good performance level.



In 2016 Messi scored five goals and made four assists.



Those are pretty impressive highlights reels for a player who failed. It's not just about the goals and assists. It's the overall play to run the games. The skill level. I give Ronaldo his due - he is an awesome player and last night was a throwback in respect to his overall play in deep positions and playmaking being sublime. He's a far more charismatic, chest out leader of his team. But to make Messi out to be a failure at internationals just because he doesn't have a medal yet is rubbish. He's been the catalyst to Argentina making three finals - if one went his way would that instantly push him above Ronaldo? If one penalty shot out against Chile went his way would that put him above and beyond Pele? One game decides that and a strike of the foot of another player can determine such claims? That's not how I view it in my personal opinion.

 

[Zlaatan]

The game last night was the best I've seen Ronaldo in years, and that's with me not giving him much credit for two of the three goals since I thought one was a pen and one was a terrible mistake by De Gea. The freekick was pure magic though. He was involved in the play, created chances and was by far the best player on the pitch imo, very interesting start to the tournament.

Messi might be technically better but I have no doubt who is the better player overall - Ronaldo easily.

More CL, titles in multiple leagues, major international wins.

Messi for Barcelona is out of this world but Messi for Argentina is no where close. So how much of his superlative success is thanks to the system? Still no doubt he's a great great player but there is a drop.

For Ronaldo, he's done it in multiple teams, in different leagues, and his performances don't drop when he's playing for Portugal. Today he almost singled handedly dragged the team through. It is much clearer to me that Ronaldo's success is less reliant on others.

The first are team honors, why would you use that to compare two individual players?

The second is a very interesting statement to make a few weeks after the CL semi-finals and final.. It's interesting how much one game or one goal can influence people's views on a players career.

And FWIW, can everyone please stop saying things like "if Ronaldo/Messi played for team X then Y would/wouldn't happen" or any of these bullshit "if" statements? This thread is littered with abysmal arguments already so starting to make up terrible hypothetical situations to praise or bash a player isn't exactly making things better. Especially when you have NO basis for what you're claiming anyway.

 

[Zlaatan]

Except he hasn't failed.

Argentina have made the final of the last three tournaments they have played (2014 World Cup, 2015 Copa, 2016 Copa)

Whether you agree with Messi getting the Golden Ball is another topic in 2014. Only James Rodriguez and Muller scored more.


In 2015 Messi scored just once, made three assists and received four MOTM so he must have had a good performance level.



In 2016 Messi scored five goals and made four assists.



Those are pretty impressive highlights reels for a player who failed. It's not just about the goals and assists. It's the overall play to run the games. The skill level. I give Ronaldo his due - he is an awesome player and last night was a throwback in respect to his overall play in deep positions and playmaking being sublime. He's a far more charismatic, chest out leader of his team. But to make Messi out to be a failure at internationals just because he doesn't have a medal yet is rubbish. He's been the catalyst to Argentina making three finals - if one went his way would that instantly push him above Ronaldo? If one penalty shot out against Chile went his way would that put him above and beyond Pele? One game decides that and a strike of the foot of another player can determine such claims? That's not how I view it in my personal opinion.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Peyroteo]

The game last night was the best I've seen Ronaldo in years, and that's with me not giving him much credit for two of the three goals since I thought one was a pen and one was a terrible mistake by De Gea. The freekick was pure magic though. He was involved in the play, created chances and was by far the best player on the pitch imo, very interesting start to the tournament.

Next time he has two 6/10 performances in a row you'll have forgotten this game, he'll be back to being a poacher that relies on his teammates for everything and you'll say the same thing again when he has a great game. He's played loads of better games, he was better against Juve away for example if you want a high profile game. For Madrid he's had a few better games than this in the past couple of years.

I should go back and quote people here that spent the last two years pretending he scores goals because of the great players around him. Where are they now?

The first are team honors, why would you use that to compare two individual players?

Because it's the goal of the game, to actually win things. Obviously judging players solely on what they won is very stupid, but winning matters especially when you're the star of the team the way Messi and Ronaldo have been.

The second is a very interesting statement to make a few weeks after the CL semi-finals and final.. It's interesting how much one game or one goal can influence people's views on a players career.

It's not one goal or one game and you know it.

Ronaldo's ability to adapt makes it a lot easier for managers to build a team around him. People say we are a one man team but that's not the case just like it's not the case with Madrid, Ronaldo carrying us won't work because it's not a system that works in modern football if you want to win the big trophies. We play for the team and the players actions should come organically, not by passing to Ronaldo and hoping for the best. That will work sometimes but it's not how a great team is built.

 

[Zlaatan]

Next time he has two 6/10 performances in a row you'll have forgotten this game, he'll be back to being a poacher that relies on his teammates for everything and you'll say the same thing again when he has a great game. He's played loads of better games, he was better against Juve away for example if you want a high profile game. For Madrid he's had a few better games than this in the past couple of years.

Seriously? You can't even deal with me praising Ronaldo now, how childish are you? I literally said in the post you're qouting that people should stop with the hypothetical arguments and the first reply I get is an assumption about what you feel I will do in the future. Great stuff.
And I don't see all of Madrid's games so last night was the best I have seen him in years.

I should go back and quote people here that spent the last two years pretending he scores goals because of the great players around him. Where are they now?

I don't know what this has to do with what I've said.

Because it's the goal of the game, to actually win things. Obviously judging players solely on what they won is very stupid, but winning matters especially when you're the star of the team the way Messi and Ronaldo have been.

Yes it matters, but to use it as your main argument is what I have a problem with and you'll also have to look at how they won the trophies, not just look at who has got the most on wikipedia. @Boycott explained the trophy vs individual performance perfectly a couple of posts above yours.

It's not one goal or one game and you know it.

It is one goal or one game. The way the poll in this thread changed after Ronaldo's bycicle kick against Juventus and the hyperbole immediately after Ronaldo or Messi has a great game is obvious for everyone to see. If not I would love to hear your explanation for why the poll went from 70-30 in Messi's favor to 55-45 in a little over a week.

Ronaldo's ability to adapt makes it a lot easier for managers to build a team around him. People say we are a one man team but that's not the case just like it's not the case with Madrid, Ronaldo carrying us won't work because it's not a system that works in modern football if you want to win the big trophies. We play for the team and the players actions should come organically, not by passing to Ronaldo and hoping for the best. That will work sometimes but it's not how a great team is built.

Ok.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@Peyroteo

Exit the thread for good.

 

[KirkDuyt]

At the moment I think it’s pretty simple.

Messi is a more gifted football player, but Ronaldo has achieved more.

In the end it’s trophies that matter, you don’t get points for potential.

 

[Peyroteo]

@Peyroteo

Exit the thread for good.

Spent hours here rebutting terrible arguments and completely stupid statements by people pretending to be unbiased that I don’t feel like leaving when they’ve so blatantly and hilariously been proven wrong

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Spent hours here rebutting terrible arguments and completely stupid statements by people pretending to be unbiased that I don’t feel like leaving when they’ve so blatantly and hilariously been proven wrong

No one cares anymore. Choose one, enjoy the other. No one has any right to argue either way.

 

[MS4]

This one match changes all opinions?
Was it a dive? I dont know - a Penalty, a bad save from de gea and a goal from freekick he rarely scores these days
Please dont start a hype here.

 

[Moiraine]

The defining tournament for either one of those. Neither have great players surrounding them.

wow ... that must be a contender for post of the year.