Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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Revan said:
Aguero is not better than Icardi. He was, but not anymore.

Icardi actually might be the second best Argentinian player, but he doesn't get called, cause Messi doesn't like him. But yeah, Portugal with their majestic players have a better team than poor little Messi who has only Aguero, Dybala, Higuain and Di Maria to help him.
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I was talking of the time frame 2014-2016 when Argentina made it to three finals. Aguero was benched in two of the three finals, and subbed in the third.

On your second point, they have top forward talent for sure. But the rest of the team is far from special. It's like when Real Madrid lined up with Ronaldo (R9), Zidane, Figo, Beckham, R Carlos and Raul - that team didn't win a league or CL. That team once came 4th.

Portugal lack in superstars but have far better balance with a solid back four marshaled by an experienced warrior in Pepe who at his best was a top defender (+ nasty scrote).

Being top-heavy has got Argentina to three finals, two lost on penalties and the other in extra time to one goal, so it's not been that bad. Maybe they'll strike gold at the forth time of asking.
 
Boycott said:
I was talking of the time frame 2014-2016 when Argentina made it to three finals. Aguero was benched in two of the three finals, and subbed in the third.

On your second point, they have top forward talent for sure. But the rest of the team is far from special. It's like when Real Madrid lined up with Ronaldo (R9), Zidane, Figo, Beckham, R Carlos and Raul - that team didn't win a league or CL. That team once came 4th.

Portugal lack in superstars but have far better balance with a solid back four marshaled by an experienced warrior in Pepe who at his best was a top defender (+ nasty scrote).

Being top-heavy has got Argentina to three finals, two lost on penalties and the other in extra time to one goal, so it's not been that bad. Maybe they'll strike gold at the forth time of asking.
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They are both bad in defense. Pepe plays in Turkey and Fonte play in China, they are both ancient. Otamendi plays for City, and Rojo for United.

Same for midfield, neither are that good, but still Argies have Mascherano, Banega and Di Maria, hardly that much worse than Carvalho, Moutinho and Silva. And in attack it ain't even close.

My point is, Messi has a superior team compared to Ronaldo. Not an ideal team (that was Pep's Barca), btu still a better team. Portugal's second best player is Moutinho, a player whom a big team never touched, and their third best player is a City bench-warmer. Argies have much more.
 
I used to say Messi is the better player but recently, I have become very double minded. Too close to call if you are not stuck on judging football based on 'flair' alone. What I do find odd is that in the GOAT discussions, most people I have listened to, hardly include Cristiano. I hear Messi compared to Maradona, Pele, etc but rarely is Cristiano compared to them. Makes no sense to me because Cristiano must certainly be in that discussion.
 
laid down a marker for the Little Man.

Over to you Messi against lowly Iceland. No pressure like.

Bubbling up nicely. All in the melting pot. Something has to give.

Messi can't win.. even if he bangs in a hattrick people will say "it's only Iceland" so will discount it.. he needs to do it on the big stage against a big team when the lights are on brightest.

1-0 first blood Ronaldo.
 
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I think most people lean towards Messi because around 2010 or so it was nearly a unanimous argument that this was his era and that he was the best. I'd go as far to say Cristiano was considered closer to the rest (Iniesta, Rooney, Robben etc) than he was to Messi, who was doing things that were unprecedented at the time and doing them vs great teams. Since then Ronaldo has basically bent the sport to his will, has matched and often surpassed Messi's previously unprecedented form and has at the very least ensured his name will be synonymous with Messi's. It's their era rather than his.

It's quite incredible what he's done. His self obsession puts a lot of people off but that's what makes him what he is. His desire to score every time his team touches the ball is incredible, his off the ball movement and ability to find space or get on the end of things is the best I've ever seen by a long stretch. Like Jerry Rice - You know it's going to him and you still can't stop it. There's a reason his teammates all seem to adore him - The likes of Keane, Ferguson, Rio speak almost in awe of him. You know that comes from more than just ability - His attitude and desire to win are unparalleled.

As far as international level goes - That was by far the best performance either have produced at a major tournament and Messi will do well to top it. Wouldn't put it past him though. They've blown away every other player I've seen - Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc. - They're just not even close, not in terms of consistency at least. When it comes down to it I think they will be 1A and 1B in the GOAT discussion. They've broken football.
 
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InLevyITrust said:
I think that's a bit of a stretch, Argentina have a much stronger squad that Portugal.
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No they really dont

Only thing that Argentina has over Portugal is thier 2 attack positions

GK Defence and Midfield Portugal are better. Wide players, Bernado is better than any wide player Argentina have got. This myth that Argentina have a great squad is baffling tbh.
 
gibers said:
No they really dont

Only thing that Argentina has over Portugal is thier 2 attack positions

GK Defence and Midfield Portugal are better. Wide players, Bernado is better than any wide player Argentina have got. This myth that Argentina have a great squad is baffling tbh.
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:lol: Since when are fonte(china) and pepe(turkey) better than otamendi and rojo? Centre midfield is about par and argentina have a huge advantage in attack.
 
gibers said:
No they really dont

Only thing that Argentina has over Portugal is thier 2 attack positions

GK Defence and Midfield Portugal are better. Wide players, Bernado is better than any wide player Argentina have got. This myth that Argentina have a great squad is baffling tbh.
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I don't think they have a great squad, but Argentina have a better squad than Portugal IMO its pretty clear. Portugal's CBs are relics compared to Argentina's... don't know what your on about.
 
MJJ said:
:lol: Since when are fonte(china) and pepe(turkey) better than otamendi and rojo? Centre midfield is about par and argentina have a huge advantage in attack.
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Rojo is kinda mediocre, we all know that. OTamendi is good.

And Pepe is a great defender, better than Otamendi in his prime, by far. And these kind of tournaments can make'em give an extra to reach a good level. Then, they have a better midfield, no doubt. Only our attack is better "on papers" cause Higuain, Aguero and Dybala have proven nothing yet. And Messi is the only one who saves us, he literally put us in the WC on his own.
 
Irish Jet said:
I think most people lean towards Messi because around 2010 or so it was nearly a unanimous argument that this was his era and that he was the best. I'd go as far to say Cristiano was considered closer to the rest (Iniesta, Rooney, Robben etc) than he was to Messi, who was doing things that were unprecedented at the time and doing them vs great teams. Since then Ronaldo has basically bent the sport to his will, has matched and often surpassed Messi's previously unprecedented form and has at the very least ensured his name will be synonymous with Messi's. It's their era rather than his.

It's quite incredible what he's done. His self obsession puts a lot of people off but that's what makes him what he is. His desire to score every time his team touches the ball is incredible, his off the ball movement and ability to find space or get on the end of things is the best I've ever seen by a long stretch. Like Jerry Rice - You know it's going to him and you still can't stop it. There's a reason his teammates all seem to adore him - The likes of Keane, Ferguson, Rio speak almost in awe of him. You know that comes from more than just ability - His attitude and desire to win are unparalleled.

As far as international level goes - That was by far the best performance either have produced at a major tournament and Messi will do well to top it. Wouldn't put it past him though. They've blown away every other player I've seen - Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc. - They're just not even close, not in terms of consistency at least. When it comes down to it I think they will be 1A and 1B in the GOAT discussion. They've broken football.
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I agree with you, but I still think this comparison is unfair to Messi since he offers way more to the game than Ronaldo who is clearly a finisher, and has been a finisher for a long time since his United days where he did was comparable to Messi IMO.


But I respect him a lot, except when he dives like he did today.


As far as group stage goes, Messi is the only reason we got through in 2014 vs Bosnia, Nigeria and Iran. Vs Nigeria he made an incredible game, and vs IRan he won the game on his own, so what Ronaldo did today is nothing new but of course it's remarcable.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Rojo is kinda mediocre, we all know that. OTamendi is good.

And Pepe is a great defender, better than Otamendi in his prime, by far. And these kind of tournaments can make'em give an extra to reach a good level. Then, they have a better midfield, no doubt. Only our attack is better "on papers" cause Higuain, Aguero and Dybala have proven nothing yet. And Messi is the only one who saves us, he literally put us in the WC on his own.
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In his prime yeah, but that prime was years ago. Rojo is atleast better than fecking fonte.

Midfield I would say is about par and what exactly have the Portugal attackers proven? They bring andre silva off the bench whereas you guys can bring higuain. But yeah Portugal has a stronger rs squad.
 
MJJ said:
In his prime yeah, but that prime was years ago. Rojo is atleast better than fecking fonte.

Midfield I would say is about par and what exactly have the Portugal attackers proven? They bring andre silva off the bench whereas you guys can bring higuain. But yeah Portugal has a stronger rs squad.
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I know, I think Portugal has a better team. Argentina has better players on papers.


I hope after all these days of training they can show movements. I really liked our first half vs Spain when we got to loose 2-1 (before all the other goals in SH). It's the first time the team has real time to prepare.
 
Ronaldo would have won the WC by now had he been Argentinian. Put Messi in that Portugal team and I'm not sure they would even qualify to the WC.
 
Giggs86 said:
Ronaldo would have won the WC by now had he been Argentinian. Put Messi in that Portugal team and I'm not sure they would even qualify to the WC.
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You seem to be an expert in this football thing.

Perhaps and for real, if ARgentina had Eder instead of Higuain, Messi would have 1 WC and two Copa Americas at the moment. And this is way more probable.
 
Argentina has the better collection of players and if they don't perform that's up to them and that's more merit for Portugal, and Cristiano, of performing at that level they're doing.
 
Acheron said:
Argentina has the better collection of players and if they don't perform that's up to them and that's more merit for Portugal, and Cristiano, of performing at that level they're doing.
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How is a merit of Cristiano that portugal performs bettter as a team? Is he their manager?
Argentina is going through the biggest FA crysis ever and if we got to a WC final, Copa America finals and to the group stages of this WC, it's all because of Messi.
 
IFC 1905 said:
I agree with you, but I still think this comparison is unfair to Messi since he offers way more to the game than Ronaldo who is clearly a finisher, and has been a finisher for a long time since his United days where he did was comparable to Messi IMO.


But I respect him a lot, except when he dives like he did today.


As far as group stage goes, Messi is the only reason we got through in 2014 vs Bosnia, Nigeria and Iran. Vs Nigeria he made an incredible game, and vs IRan he won the game on his own, so what Ronaldo did today is nothing new but of course it's remarcable.
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If you're the best in the world at something you don't need to offer more elsewhere as you'd just be wasting what you're great at - Although that's pure revisionism anyways, Ronaldo was a complete force in his peak years and was as dynamic a footballer you'll ever see. He's also rather good at creating when he needs to and is exceptional at incisive counter attacking play but he plays to his strengths, he's adjusted well to losing a little bit of quickness. Ronaldo offers more in other ways too, most obviously as an aerial threat, he's one of the best heading finishers' of all time.

He didn't dive. It's a penalty. Stonewall. Brilliant play too.

Performances against Nigeria and Iran are not really comparable to a hat-trick against Spain, a team tipped by many to win the tournament.
 
Still see Messi as the all round better player, however, honestly I'm starting to believe Ronaldo has the better career so far, 5 CLs, Euro, loads of records, same number of Balloon D'Or with a big chance to gain one more over Messi. His career, number wise, I think it's better tbh.
 
Ronaldo is a beast

Technically Messi maybe the better footballer, but things like this that make me think Ronaldo is better
He is the best finisher and have been doing that for years, also didn't crumble in the pressure and cary his team
 
Irish Jet said:
If you're the best in the world at something you don't need to offer more elsewhere as you'd just be wasting what you're great at - Although that's pure revisionism anyways, Ronaldo was a complete force in his peak years and was as dynamic a footballer you'll ever see. He's also rather good at creating when he needs to and is exceptional at incisive counter attacking play but he plays to his strengths, he's adjusted well to losing a little bit of quickness. Ronaldo offers more in other ways too, most obviously as an aerial threat, he's one of the best heading finishers' of all time.

He didn't dive. It's a penalty. Stonewall. Brilliant play too.

Performances against Nigeria and Iran are not really comparable to a hat-trick against Spain, a team tipped by many to win the tournament.
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Messi is easily capable of a hattrick vs any team as Ronaldo (even more with some help) . All I'm saying is MEssi got us through last time on his own, and no one values that. But our team was mediocre and with al lot of players not fit. If it was Portugal and Cristiano scoring those goals in our group everybody would be hyped with that.

I still watch the play and I'm convinced he already decided to fall before making contact, the corporal gesture seems clear to me and to be honest is nothing new.
 
IFC 1905 said:
How is a merit of Cristiano that portugal performs bettter as a team? Is he their manager?
Argentina is going through the biggest FA crysis ever and if we got to a WC final, Copa America finals and to the group stages of this WC, it's all because of Messi.
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I think it's a merit for him and all his teammates but he's like a key player for them. On the other hand it's a weird spin trying to say that Argentina has a worse team, or that Messi has to play around a poorer players in comparison to Portugal; that's not true at all and that's what I'm saying that if Portugal works better as an unit is more merit for them than an excuse for Messi. Although is not that I think that Argentina are doing poor or that Messi is holding them back, lol, and I hope good performances from them this world cup as well.
 
Miscemayl said:
Messi for Barcelona is out of this world but Messi for Argentina is no where close. So how much of his superlative success is thanks to the system? Still no doubt he's a great great player but there is a drop.
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This is a clear missconcept everyone who does not watch argentina has. Messi plays well everytime for Argentina, is clearly the reason we're at the WC, the reason we got to the final in the last WC and our best player in every tournament and the WCQFs by far. In fact you can search for our points with and without him.

There's a lot of people who tend to think like this, and a lot who say Ronaldo plays for poor portugal and Messi for the almighty ARgentina, when the former is clearly the better team.
 
Acheron said:
I think it's a merit for him and all his teammates but he's like a key player for them. On the other hand it's a weird spin trying to say that Argentina has a worse team, or that Messi has to play around a poorer players in comparison to Portugal; that's not true at all and that's what I'm saying that if Portugal works better as an unit is more merit for them than an excuse for Messi. Although is not that I think that Argentina are doing poor or that Messi is holding them back, lol, and I hope good performances from them this world cup as well.
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Portugal has a better football team. Argentina might have better players at some positions. Messi has been holding our back for a long time. And we had a lot of changes of managers and directives, our FA has even been intervened by FIFA. Sampaoli has only a year with like 4 official matches with a couple days of training for each one.
 
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The biggest challenge for Ronaldo and Messi in this world cup is Brazil.

If there are any individuals that can upstage Brazil, it's Messi or Ronaldo. Can't wait for it to happen.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Portugal has a better football team. Argentina might have better players at some positions. Messi has been holding us back for a long time. And we had a lot of changes of managers and directives, our FA has even been intervened by FIFA. Sampaoli has only a year with like 4 official matches with a couple days of training for each one.
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Messi holding you back? Yet when he retired and you guys played games only to get drubbings, you all came crawling back. The entire nation begged him to unretire.
 
Newman123 said:
Messi holding you back? Yet when he retired and you guys played games only to get drubbings, you all came crawling back. The entire nation begged him to unretire.
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Sorry, I meant holding our back :lol::lol: of course man, that's what I'm saying. We're literally nothing without Messi. Wouldn't be playing the WC for sure without him, he's the only hope we've got to be honest.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Portugal has a better football team. Argentina might have better players at some positions. Messi has been holding us back for a long time. And we had a lot of changes of managers and directives, our FA has even been intervened by FIFA. Sampaoli has only a year with like 4 official matches with a couple days of training for each one.
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You might have a point with Sampaoli and the mess they've done sacking so many managers but ultimately I think the only advantage Portugal has over Argentina is having lower expectations and less pressure by their fans/media. Also it's kind of weird how Ronaldo is all smug and egocentric, I mean he's more suited to the archetype of Argentinian players and their football culture so I think he would do very well if he played for Argentina or let's say Spain.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Messi is easily capable of a hattrick vs any team as Ronaldo (even more with some help) . All I'm saying is MEssi got us through last time on his own, and no one values that. But our team was mediocre and with al lot of players not fit. If it was Portugal and Cristiano scoring those goals in our group everybody would be hyped with that.

I still watch the play and I'm convinced he already decided to fall before making contact, the corporal gesture seems clear to me and to be honest is nothing new.
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But hasn't done it against a big side in a tournament so what he's capable of isn't really relevant to my point - That is the most impressive performance bar none. Ronaldo has also dragged his side to a tournament and to a tournament final with teams significantly less talented than any Argentina squad. Both get plenty of hype as Messi will tomorrow if he destroys Iceland.

Whether he decided to fall is irrelevant. It's a stupid foul, the contact was always coming and it's a penalty. What gesture? lol.
 
Acheron said:
You might have a point with Sampaoli and the mess they've done sacking so many managers but ultimately I think the only advantage Portugal has over Argentina is having lower expectations and less pressure by their fans/media. Also it's kind of weird how Ronaldo is all smug and egocentric, I mean he's more suited to the archetype of Argentinian players and their football culture so I think he would do very well if he played for Argentina or let's say Spain.
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Well to be honest we're not egocentric, I don't remember our players being egocentric (of course there's always someone but I can't find that as a characteristic) Portugal has a better oiled team, that's key in this kind of tournaments. You need to think that in our XI, Meza, Tagliafico...are new guys and do not know the other guys timing and stuff. And of course changing managers with such different ideas (Sabella defensive, Martino offensive, Bauza even more defensive than Sabella, and Sampaoli more offensive than martino) in less than 4 years is so crazy that it would be a miracle if we get to play well and win the cup.
 
Irish Jet said:
But hasn't done it against a big side in a tournament so what he's capable of isn't really relevant to my point - That is the most impressive performance bar none. Ronaldo has also dragged his side to a tournament and to a tournament final with teams significantly less talented than any Argentina squad. Both get plenty of hype as Messi will tomorrow if he destroys Iceland.

Whether he decided to fall is irrelevant. It's a stupid foul, the contact was always coming and it's a penalty. What gesture? lol.
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Of course is relevant, It's messi and ronaldo and no one would be surprised if they do this to any team. If in your eyes Messi still needs to prove something, it has to do with your opinion and the way you see football. So the rest of what you said has no sense to me.

And as my vision says Ronaldo clearly begins to fall before the contact is done. When I speak about gesture, I speak about his whole body position right before the contact. And he's done it hundred of times, don't know where's your surprise. It's not a clear penalty in my eyes at all, but a one the referee can sign or not, and that he fabricated.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Of course is relevant, It's messi and ronaldo and no one would be surprised if they do this to any team. If in your eyes Messi still needs to prove something, it has to do with your opinion and the way you see football. So the rest of what you said has no sense to me.

And as my vision says Ronaldo clearly begins to fall before the contact is done. When I speak about gesture, I speak about his whole body position right before the contact. And he's done it hundred of times, don't know where's your surprise. It's not a clear penalty in my eyes at all, but a one the referee can sign or not, and that he fabricated.
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Where did I say he needs to prove something. I made a statement and you challenged it. The statement is true.

It is a clear penalty mate. Your blinded with hate.
 
I’ll happily change my mind if ronaldo takes Portugal to the final. The group should be easy for him now, he could go into the second round with 7 or 8 goals.

I don’t think anyone could ever make me enjoy football the way messi did in his prime, but one thing ronaldo has added back into his games in 2018 are moments of magic.

I compared them in my head today to the two characters in good will hunting. Messi is like the professor, thought out and beautiful approach to solving an equation, and ronaldo is like matt damon, just walks right up to the board and solved the equation instantly.

Said it before and I’ll say it again, history will remember Ronaldo as the greatest player of all time. 50 years from now, no one will have came close to his numbers and the two league factor will be an even stronger argument then.
 
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Irish Jet said:
Where did I say he needs to prove something. I made a statement and you challenged it. The statement is true.

It is a clear penalty mate. Your blinded with hate.
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You said what they're capable of is irrelevant....but well, I made it up.

Blinded with hate? Don't be ridiculous. It's a clever penalty he made up, Nacho being innocent and the referee buying it.
 
People seem to judge Argentina's squad on paper instead of performances.

Aguero, Di Maria, and Higuain have routinely been poor for the NT. They also have no midfield. And their likely 2nd best player in Dybala can't play because, him and Messi can't play at the same time.

Their team has plenty of players who massively under-perform.

Not to say that Portgual have this stacked team either, but to say Argentina is stacked is a myth constantly dispelled by their actual performances.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
People seem to judge Argentina's squad on paper instead of performances.

Aguero, Di Maria, and Higuain have routinely been poor for the NT. They also have no midfield. And their likely 2nd best player in Dybala can't play because, him and Messi can't play at the same time.

Their team has plenty of players who massively under-perform.

Not to say that Portgual have this stacked team either, but to say Argentina is stacked is a myth constantly dispelled by their actual performances.
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It’s not a myth. They are stacked with talent. Underperforming is another issue but you can’t say they aren’t stacked with talent.

This is why many say Ronaldo’s leadership abilities are not trivial. He would have by hook or by crook made the team perform one way or another.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Not to say that Portgual have this stacked team either, but to say Argentina is stacked is a myth constantly dispelled by their actual performances.
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I wouldn't have them as the best squad but they're still a very respected football nation with one of the better teams, in terms of players at their disposal, in the tournament. The teams that I would rate above them would be Spain, France, Germany and Brazil.
 
IFC 1905 said:
This is a clear missconcept everyone who does not watch argentina has. Messi plays well everytime for Argentina, is clearly the reason we're at the WC, the reason we got to the final in the last WC and our best player in every tournament and the WCQFs by far. In fact you can search for our points with and without him.

There's a lot of people who tend to think like this, and a lot who say Ronaldo plays for poor portugal and Messi for the almighty ARgentina, when the former is clearly the better team.
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No doubt he plays well but does he replicate his Barcelona form?

No one is saying he's crap for Argentina but he's clearly not as good as he is in a Barcelona shirt.

There is no way Portugal has the better team. They might play better than Argentina but talent and player wise, there's no comparisons.
 
Miscemayl said:
No doubt he plays well but does he replicate his Barcelona form?

No one is saying he's crap for Argentina but he's clearly not as good as he is in a Barcelona shirt.

There is no way Portugal has the better team. They might play better than Argentina but talent and player wise, there's no comparisons.
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Of course he is as good as he is in Barcelona. He's involved in every goal and attacking situation, and he even drops deeper with ARgentina. If you say the oposite then you just don't watch Argentina play.

To be a better team is different to have better players. Argentina have better players who fail to perform while portugal has a solid team with experience and years under the same line of play.
 
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