Madrid's star player would be compared to Barcelona's star player, if that's what you meant then of course it's true but noone would be debating about who's better between Higuain and Messi. Come on..
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Madrid's star player would be compared to Barcelona's star player, if that's what you meant then of course it's true but noone would be debating about who's better between Higuain and Messi. Come on..
Ronaldo’s goal at the weekend was the best example of his movement I’ve seen. As bale strikes the ball, he’s moving to the front post but he picks up the flight of the ball in milliseconds and adjusts his run to connect. The defender was watching the same ball, if he had the intelligence of ronaldo he’d have moved with the flight too, but he didn’t.
Reminded me of this that I just laughed off at the time, but when you see that kind of split second analysis by him, he might just have a perfect read of the game.
This year it’s not even a Ronaldo vs Messi debate.
It’s honestly Ronaldo vs Salah for the Ballon d’Or.
It’s honestly Ronaldo vs Salah for the Ballon d’Or.
Exactly and then people talk about how good Bale's cross was. He scores a bunch of goals exactly like that, just changing direction multiple times completely throws defenders off. It doesn't result only in goals either. The problem is that he's constantly doing it all match but he only gets the credit for it when the ball finds him and he puts it in. Here's Gary Linekar talking about it.
What's even more interesting is that the older Ronaldo gets and the more other areas of his game seemingly continue to deteriorate; his goalscoring instincts, reactions, and all-round reading of the game becomes increasingly more ACUTE. It's really unique. As some attributes go down, the others go up. He's arguably the most intelligent goalscorer in history. I was reading on a Barcaforum where users genuinely believed that elite defenders just forgot the basics of defending when they faced Ronaldo and not that it was actually him that was making them look like fools.
No, they are putting Ronaldo on top because he has won 3 of the last 4 UCL, because he has won 4 of the last 5 Ballon D'Ors, he won the 2 FIFA Best Player, the last season he won 5 out of 6 tournaments they played, he has been the top scorer in UCL the last 7 years in a row, and because Messi has disappeared in 4 of the last 5 UCL.
He dissapeared twice vs Atletico, once vs Juve, PSG, Roma, Bayern... while Cristiano always appears in the big games.
You only need to see their stats in the knockout stages on the UCL and suddenly everything becomes very clear.
The difference is that Messi could play in any era.
Ronaldo is thriving in the era of zonal defending. The defensive line shifts together and leaves these blank spots in the box for the 'fox' to score. Whenever a player stops at a dime, the defensive line keeps running together and they are free.
Ronaldo being harassed by someone, hip checked, pushed and being dealt physically. I'd like to see that. He rarely has to grapple someone physically.
Ronaldo in the Serie A would be another Djorkaeff, a good player but nothing to write home about.
Ronaldo is thriving in the era of zonal defending. The defensive line shifts together and leaves these blank spots in the box for the 'fox' to score. Whenever a player stops at a dime, the defensive line keeps running together and they are free.
Ronaldo being harassed by someone, hip checked, pushed and being dealt physically. I'd like to see that. He rarely has to grapple someone physically.
Ronaldo in the Serie A would be another Djorkaeff, a good player but nothing to write home about.
Ronaldo at his absolute peak could do things Djorkaeff could only dream of..
Na, Messi has still been unreal this season. If they get a player 38 lost 0 in the league it’s unique enough to keep him in the hunt.
Go lay down pal.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if Ronaldo played in the EPL or something to prove such a thing?
Oh wait, he did, and did so when he wasn’t even in his physical prime yet and just a boy and still got his way!
Nice little made up bit there. 10/10 would read again
Ronaldo is very hard to mark especially when he is fit physically. Great acceleration, absurd jumping reach, anticipation, off the ball, first touch and striking technique. It's basically a defender's nightmare. Modern footballers would have a field day against old defences. Just another level of fitness and preparation.
Ok I'll just be honest, I don't like Ronaldo's playing style. It looks like he'll break in half when he tries a dribble.
Good luck man marking someone who's faster, stronger and can outjump you. If teams thought man marking and using some physicality with him would stop him everyone would do it. Managers aren't stupid.
Godin is probably the best old fashioned defender of this era and watch him man mark Ronaldo here during a corner, check the replays. I don't care who you are or what era you're from, there's nothing you can do about that.
As a star player he benefits from being protected by refs though, same as Messi.
One thing there is no doubt about is ronaldo is the greatest ever in terms of athletic ability and utilizing it. What’s most impressive about that is that he made himself that way through hard work and dedication. He’s a complete Adonis.
I think my sanity might break in half if you try another post.
He has 23 goals in 76 games, but I did say 'if he were to score at Napoli rate'. He scored 5 in 7 UCL games with Napoli, which is 0'7 goals per game, if he were to keep that same ratio playing for Real Madrid as Ronaldo's 97 games, that would mean him sitting in 67 goals, 4th all time (or 3rd if, like I said, Ronaldo didn't exist). And those number could be better if he had Napoli's form with a squad like Real Madrid behind him.
If you think Real Madrid wouldn't manufacture him as Messi's biggest rival, I don't know how much you know about Spanish football.
Well, I'm entitled to my opinion, I've been arguing against Real Madrid fans that were saying they had someone better than Messi for the last 13 years
And like I said, not only related to this rivalry, it was also Guti vs Xavi, Iniesta vs Ozil, Neymar vs Bale, Ramos vs Pique, Xabi Alonso vs Busquets, Pedro vs Callejon and the list goes on... there's a reason Luis Aragones had to leave Salgado, Guti and Raul at home, and grab Xavi to tell him 'you're going to be the engine of this team, and don't listen to anyone else', or why Del Bosque had to defend Busquets in 2010 when everyone was asking for a single DM in Spain and a lot of people were selling Xabi Alonso as the chosen one for obvious reasons, it's a war between both teams, and Real Madrid closest press are one of the most toxic in the world. If they had to settle for Higuain to dispute Messi, they'd do it without a second thought, and a lot of people would buy it.
That's not even true
What happens if Madrid don't win the CL? Ronaldo still wins it?
How can you have gotten as far as as Messi has in football with 'no mentality'. There is no way you would make it that far no matter how talented you are.
Some of these posts are ridiculous.
Enjoy both players instead of living through Ronaldo. These type of players don't come that often.
Well, I'm entitled to my opinion, I've been arguing against Real Madrid fans that were saying they had someone better than Messi for the last 13 years
Those were at very different times though... Ronaldo also got a lot of comparisons with the likes of Robben or worse
It doesn't mean there was actually a debate about it. The first one is comparing their Copa America performances, the second is asking who's going to be better in a particular game (no comparison at all) and the third is just an objective truth
That's how the media works but it's very different from this. Just like if Messi wasn't playing they'd compare Ronaldo to Iniesta or Suarez, of course if Ronaldo didn't play they'd compare Messi to the star Madrid player. Doesn't mean there would be an actual debate on who's better
I agree.. I wish we could only have Ronaldo play in the EPL to see how he would fare in such a challenging league....
OH WAIT, He already destroyed the PL and won everything with the biggest club there!
Always loved Ronnie's style of stepovers too. Yes I know this isn't his game but the way he did stepovers always felt a bit different with his longer legs
Messi who?
And I doubt that they would play the same way if they had Messi instead of Ronaldo.. so it's a pointless argument. Of course it's more difficult to create chances for Messi if you play a lot of crosses and depend on him to finish them, just as it would be a lot harder to create chances if you give Ronaldo the same role as Messi has in Barca. The only thing that proves is that they are good at different things, that's it.
All these hypothetical situations leads nowhere and this thread is filled with abysmal arguments as it is without them. That Ronaldo would win the WC with Argentina or that Real would lose with Messi is, and I'm being as nice as I possibly can here, wild and extremely biased guesses. Nothing more.
I have been reading ridiculous posts from you for the last couple of days, so I put up a joke comment because some of you lot have been ridiculous with the comments.
Did you watch the two legs vs Chelsea? Messi carried Barca through. He can’t carry them every game, especially when they are quite poor without him. They would not be top of La Liga by a landslide if he didn’t play for them.
Even Ronaldo needs his team mates to help out, more so than Messi actually. Ronaldo has briliant timing and finishing, but if Modric, Isco, Bale, Benzema didn’t provide for him he wouldn’t be able to do what he does as good.
Put him in this Barca team and no way does he do any better than Messi. Because Ron can’t pick the ball up from deep and take it to the other team. That is what Barca are expecting from Messi every game.
Please behave. How many times have you watched Barcelona play this season? Answer truthfully.
Messi has been the main reason Barca are so far ahead at the top of the League. He has won way more games for his team than Ronaldo has this season. Just because Ronaldo is better in 5 games in the CL doesn’t mean he has been better than Messi.
Otherwise why are Real so far behind in the league?
As for Salah, he won’t win any trophy with Liverpool this season. So how can he win the Ballon D’or vs someone who is the main reason for his team winning the league.
On this rate will it get close to 50 vs 50 by end of the season?
Oh, that's a nice call, because that right there is one of the biggest reasons why a guy like Ibrahimovic was doomed to fail for Barcelona
That move Ronaldo does there, shoving Godin (and I'm not arguing that should always be a foul, I'm talking about standards for players) would be called as a foul for Zlatan in Barcelona, not only he almost doubled his fouls/90 at La Liga, there's also the fact that he was involved on way less aerial duels for Barcelona yet he had more fouls called.
And there's one guy who's the biggest offender at that, named Sergio Ramos. Everything players like Ronaldo and Ramos get away with in the rival area at set pieces is almost directly related to the things Pique, Busquets and Mascherano get away with while defending set pieces.
Call me conspiranoid, but it's harder to beat Real Madrid or Barcelona when they get away with so many things in both areas, and that's also part of why I think this rivalry gets constantly fueled from all sides and that both their numbers (Cris and Leo) are way too skewed at club level to stablish a fair debate between both of them and other greats from the past.
That is the point though, people are using the argument that Ron has won an international tournament and Messi hasn’t even though Ron was average.
If Ron edges him in their opinion because of the Euro win, then surely if Messi wins the WC whilst being average then he trumps Ron.
Besides, the Ronaldo boys will definitely just come out with “but Messi played for Argentina, they are way better than Portugal and should be winning the WC anyway.
And I do laugh at how much emphasis you guys place on the Ballon d'Or.
You must be the type to argue Steve Nash was better than Kobe Bryant.
edit: and I know you don't think Salah is better than Messi therefore you must agree that the Ballon d'Or is awarded based on club and player form for that year rather than a "this guy is better than that guy" thing which then begs the question why you use Ballon d'Or's as an argument for player A being better than player B in the first place.
Close the thread till next year.
And I do laugh at how much emphasis you guys place on the Ballon d'Or.
You must be the type to argue Steve Nash was better than Kobe Bryant.
What is more ridiculous is that the votes have changed to 60-40 over 2 CL games. Quickly forgetting how crap Ron was before Christmas and how Messi has dragged Barca to the league title. Why couldn’t Ron help Real ar least Challenge? But minds get changed because Ron has gone one round further (so far) in the CL.
Literally minds are changed over 2 games vs 20 ish games.
They’re as even as can be with trophies, goals and all that. What separates them for me is style of play. I don’t like Barcelona but I watch their games just to watch Messi. I’ve paid money and travelled to go see a friendly between Argentina and Brazil solely so I can watch Messi play. I wouldn’t do that for Ronaldo.
And I do laugh at how much emphasis you guys place on the Ballon d'Or.
You must be the type to argue Steve Nash was better than Kobe Bryant.
edit: and I know you don't think Salah is better than Messi therefore you must agree that the Ballon d'Or is awarded based on club and player form for that year rather than a "this guy is better than that guy" thing which then begs the question why you use Ballon d'Or's as an argument for player A being better than player B in the first place.
Weirdest part, everyone if forgetting about Neymar, who should arrive at Russia in a better form than anyone else, with the best team in the tournament, and starting in a group with Switzerland, Costa Rica and Serbia, he could pretty much seal 80% of the golden boot in three games, and if he does well and gets to lift the trophy, he's set as the Ballon d'Or winner.
Exactly. The Ronaldo fans have created this alternate universe where only the CL matters. Conveniently in the same season where RM have gave up in the league because they were so awful in the half of the season and have instead focused on the CL.
And I don't care how many CL's, Ballon d'Or's or whatever Ronaldo wins. I'll never see him as being better than Messi simply because I think Messi is a better player than him. I use the eye test to judge who's better not how many awards or trophies they have.
Both all time greats but I'll never be swayed on accolades. I think that would make watching football so joyless.
Very true.
The BdO is a ridiculous award anyway.
Like I pointed out last week, the home nations managers choices for this years was appalling. Southgate didn't even put Messi in his top 3. Chris Coleman didn't put Messi or Ronaldo! His 3 votes went to Ramos, Modric and Kane. Strachan voted Modric, Kante and Messi and Michael O'Neill went Ronaldo, Hazard and Kante.
Oh, and to prove it isn't something in the water over here... Neuer went Kroos, Lewandowski and Vidal (
) while Low chose Kroos, Neuer and Neymar. It's about as mental as the political voting on the Eurovision song contest.
Very true.
The BdO is a ridiculous award anyway.
Like I pointed out last week, the home nations managers choices for this years was appalling. Southgate didn't even put Messi in his top 3. Chris Coleman didn't put Messi or Ronaldo! His 3 votes went to Ramos, Modric and Kane. Strachan voted Modric, Kante and Messi and Michael O'Neill went Ronaldo, Hazard and Kante.
Oh, and to prove it isn't something in the water over here... Neuer went Kroos, Lewandowski and Vidal (
It's about as mental as the political voting on the Eurovision song contest.
That's not the Ballon D'Or. Ballon D'Or is voted by journalists and they do get it right most of the time. Shevchenko above Deco in 2004 is the only big decision I disagree with
Yeah my bad, I forgot FIFA split away to do their own 'Best' award. Nonetheless, in previous years the BDO was definitely voted on by captains and managers and it was every bit as mental.
Journalists know even less about the game than the pros so it doesn't really change my thought process on it. Using awards to argue someone is better is a bit stupid. As a basketball fan I know that all too well.
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