Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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Holy crap, almost 200 pages of this debate. Props to @Cal? and others for fighting for their man.

I personally feel Messi was a slightly better player than Ronaldo at their respective peaks but this GOAT debate can only be settled at the end of their careers. Ronaldo has had an absurd late surge in past few seasons and large part of that is due to how he takes care of his body. His knee has been buggered since 2015 but he's remained on top of his game. Even at the start of this season he lost a lot of upper body muscle to give him little more speed and agility. Don't think he gets enough credit for how he's molded his game to suit his ageing body. Their CL record will probably be very close considering Messi has few more years on him but it's the International honors which will settle it for me and few others. Coming World Cup is important for their legacies.
 
Kush said:
Holy crap, almost 200 pages of this debate. Props to @Cal? and others for fighting for their man.

I personally feel Messi was a slightly better player than Ronaldo at their respective peaks but this GOAT debate can only be settled at the end of their careers. Ronaldo has had an absurd late surge in past few seasons and large part of that is due to how he takes care of his body. His knee has been buggered since 2015 but he's remained on top of his game. Even at the start of this season he lost a lot of upper body muscle to give him little more speed and agility. Don't think he gets enough credit for how he's molded his game to suit his ageing body. Their CL record will probably be very close considering Messi has few more years on him but it's the International honors which will settle it for me and few others. Coming World Cup is important for their legacies.
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I doubt Ronaldo will retire before Messi, and the difference in age is 2 years and a bit.
 
So Ron scores 2 and the poll changes by 10%, Messi scores a hatrick and it doesn’t change. That is quite fickle especially when this Messi fella is the main reason Barca are so far ahead in La Liga.

I wonder if they would even be first now without him. Saves their skin so many times.
 
Pocho said:
No, it says that he is the best player of the world, did you even read the article? The Madrid sport paper.
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Right, now Marca are the ultimate authority on all time best footballer?
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
So Ron scores 2 and the poll changes by 10%, Messi scores a hatrick and it doesn’t change. That is quite fickle especially when this Messi fella is the main reason Barca are so far ahead in La Liga.

I wonder if they would even be first now without him. Saves their skin so many times.
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Maybe something to do with one being a CL QF against Juventus and other being a league game against bottom half team?
 
Cal? said:
Maybe something to do with one being a CL QF against Juventus and other being a league game against bottom half team?
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Yup, not as ever Messi has ever scored in a big game.
 
Cheesy said:
Yup, not as ever Messi has ever scored in a big game.
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Messi has still put in much better performances in the league than Ronaldo. He is the main reason they are so far ahead.

If these teams in the league that Messi performs against are rubbish then why is has he been performing better than Ronaldo against them all this season?

The point is Messi has been more consistent than Ronaldo this season. It shows who has been better if one has done it week in week out and the other has only done it sporadically.

A 38 game tournament is tougher than a 10 game tournament. Because you have to be at the highest level for longer in the season.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Messi has still put in much better performances in the league than Ronaldo. He is the main reason they are so far ahead.

If these teams in the league that Messi performs against are rubbish then why is has he been performing better than Ronaldo against them all this season?

The point is Messi has been more consistent than Ronaldo this season. It shows who has been better if one has done it week in week out and the other has only done it sporadically.

A 38 game tournament is tougher than a 10 game tournament. Because you have to be at the highest level for longer in the season.
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Oh yeah, I agree, firmly on the side of Messi in this argument and was being sarcastic in my above post. I just think that in general anyone whose mind is being switched by one individual moment or goal is being a bit fickle and reactionary, considering these two guys have literally been doing this for over a decade now. Both have delivered in an array of massive, season-defining games and both have scored an absurd number.
 
Cal? said:
Just not as often as Cristiano...
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Don't you ever get bored of making things up to create further arguments here?

Ronaldo was the one with a questionable record against the top teams up until about 2014. Over the last three or four years he's well and truely burried that critisism, and it's not one you can aim at Messi now either.
 
Cal? said:
Maybe something to do with one being a CL QF against Juventus and other being a league game against bottom half team?
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Messi has still put in much better performances in the league than Ronaldo. He is the main reason they are so far ahead.

If these teams in the league that Messi performs against are rubbish then why is has he been performing better than Ronaldo against them all this season?

The point is Messi has been more consistent than Ronaldo this season. It shows who has been better if one has done it week in week out and the other has only done it sporadically.

A 38 game tournament is tougher than a 10 game tournament. Because you have to be at the highest level for longer in the season.
 
Cheesy said:
Oh yeah, I agree, firmly on the side of Messi in this argument and was being sarcastic in my above post. I just think that in general anyone whose mind is being switched by one individual moment or goal is being a bit fickle and reactionary, considering these two guys have literally been doing this for over a decade now. Both have delivered in an array of massive, season-defining games and both have scored an absurd number.
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Sorry mate, that was directed at Cal, I accidently quoted your comment.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Messi has still put in much better performances in the league than Ronaldo. He is the main reason they are so far ahead.

If these teams in the league that Messi performs against are rubbish then why is has he been performing better than Ronaldo against them all this season?

The point is Messi has been more consistent than Ronaldo this season. It shows who has been better if one has done it week in week out and the other has only done it sporadically.

A 38 game tournament is tougher than a 10 game tournament. Because you have to be at the highest level for longer in the season.
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No one has denied that Messi had a better last few months of 2017.

However, that bolded part is clearly false. The better teams in a competition, the tougher the competitions.
 
Cal? said:
No one has denied that Messi had a better last few months of 2017.

However, that bolded part is clearly false. The better teams in a competition, the tougher the competitions.
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I was saying because a lot of people swayed in their choice from one game.

The point being that it is easier to be great in a competition where you only have to perform in 10 ish games or less. In the league you have to perform on a more regular and consistent basis.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
I was saying because a lot of people swayed in their choice from one game.

The point being that it is easier to be great in a competition where you only have to perform in 10 ish games or less. In the league you have to perform on a more regular and consistent basis.
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People are swayed by the bigger games shocker. :eek:

Maradona's goal against England in 86 spring to mind.

In the league you have plenty of chance to make up for bad performances, City will still win the league despite the capitulation last night; but last Wed most likely cost them any chance of the CL.
 
Apocalypse said:
Don't you ever get bored of making things up to create further arguments here?

Ronaldo was the one with a questionable record against the top teams up until about 2014. Over the last three or four years he's well and truely burried that critisism, and it's not one you can aim at Messi now either.
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How have I made things up? Care to go check the number of goals Ronaldo has scored in the CL knockout stage compared to Messi?

Since the demise of Xaviesta, Messi has hardly done that well in the CL.
 
Pocho said:
No, they are biased in Ronaldo's favour but not as much as you are.
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:lol: So if they print an article saying Ronaldo is the best, they're just being biased?

That's a great line of argument. :rolleyes:
 
Don't need a bloody magazine/newspaper to tell you Messi is the greatest of all time. Just watch him.
 
I honestly think that there are only two possible reasons why a person who watches (and understands) football regularly, and particularly watches Messi and Ronaldo play on a weekly basis, could seriously believe Ronaldo is the better player: 1) they are Real Madrid supporters and/or 2) they are Ronaldo fans. In my opinion, there are three main reasons why Messy is so vastly superior to Ronaldo: understanding of the game, passing ability (I can't get my mind around how underrated Messi is in this aspect of the game, he's the best passer ever, hands down) and dribbling. There are other skills in which they are basically on a par (scoring, maybe?) and I think Ronaldo is only superior in "minor" aspects connected to scoring like headers and shooting potency.

Having said that, it's truly admirable how Ronaldo has managed to compete all these years making this debate less stupid than it should have been in terms of actual football talent. He is a beast, and I seriously doubt we'll see another player with his scoring voraciousness and repertoir in out lifetimes. I used to be a hater, but once you manage to leave all that behind, there's no denying how terrific a player he is and has consistently been for so long.
 
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meneillosRC said:
I honestly think that there are only two possible reasons why a person who watches (and understands) football regularly, and particularly watches Messi and Ronaldo play on a weekly basis, could seriously believe Ronaldo is the better player: 1) they are Real Madrid supporters and/or 2) they are Ronaldo fans. In my opinion, there are three main reasons why Messy is so vastly superior to Ronaldo: understanding of the game, passing ability (I can't get my mind around how underrated Messi is in this aspect of the game, he's the best passer ever, hands down) and dribbling. There are other skills in which they are basically on a par (scoring, maybe?) and I think Ronaldo is only superior in "minor" aspects connected to scoring like headers and shooting potency.

Having said that, it's truly admirable how Ronaldo has managed to compete all these years making this debate less stupid than it should have been in terms of actual football talent. He is a beast, and I seriously doubt we'll see another player with his scoring voraciousness and repertoir in out lifetimes. I used to be a hater, but once you manage to leave all that behind, there's no denying how terrific a player he is and has consistently been for so long.
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It really is quite incredible that most people on Messi's side of this are absolutely sure of themselves. The football world voted Ronaldo the better player 6 times out of the last 11 years, you are entitled to your opinion, but to be so dismissive of the debate is just pure ignorance.

"understanding of the game", what exactly does that entail? Is this some kind of Xavi-esque view of the game only being allowed to be played in the way of St Pep?

"passing ability", Messi and the word "underrated" in the same sentence? :lol:

"dribbling", how is this a more important part of the game than what you call "minor aspects" like heading or shooting? :wenger: The AIM of football is ultimately to score goals, heading and shooting both directly lead to the scoring of goals.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Do newbies sign up to Redcafe just to debate in this thread?
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Not only redcafe, but a few people I know who in real life became barca fans during 2012-13 (because messi had that 91 goal season) just to be able to take part in this neverending debate.

Coincidentally they are Argentina fans as well. They don't bother to watch a single game when Messi isn't playing. Loads of these will disappear the day Messi retires.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Not only redcafe, but a few people I know who in real life became barca fans during 2012-13 (because messi had that 91 goal season) just to be able to take part in this neverending debate.

Coincidentally they are Argentina fans as well. They don't bother to watch a single game when Messi isn't playing. Loads of these will disappear the day Messi retires.
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Lol you could say it both ways, you say it as if it only happens with Messi fans. Its one of the most tedious debates on both sides.
 
Cal? said:
:lol: So if they print an article saying Ronaldo is the best, they're just being biased?

That's a great line of argument. :rolleyes:
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Of course, only biased people can say Ronaldo is better.
 
I made a pact with myself 5 years ago that i would try and watch every game Messi and Ronaldo played. Reason for this i knew that by the time they hung up their boots both would go down as greats in the game and i wanted to see their respected journeys.

For me personally (and football is subjective) i prefer Messi as he does things that just take your breath away and is more of a team player than Ronaldo.
I get the impression with Messi that he is not bothered whether he scores or not as long as the team wins, whilst with Ronaldo it's an obsession to be on the score sheet (which you have to applaud btw)

I'm glad to say i watched a lot of Maradona in his prime and he was a phenomenal player. I do think however that Messi could do everything Maradona could but also score 50 goals a season consistently.

(I didn't watch Pele and have only seen video footage but he did look a glorious player)

What Ronaldo is unbelievable at is his movement in the box and one touch finishing. It really is incredible. Watch how he loses his marker to create space and then makes the finish look easy. This is something he is the best in the world at.
Like i said football is subjective but for me Messi edges it and has carried for me an average Barcelona to the league title and probably a CDR.

However, let's enjoy them both as they won't be around for ever. Thankfully I've been privileged to watch both players on numerous occasions and when they both retire i expect them to be in the top 5 players of all time.
 
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Cal? said:
The AIM of football is ultimately to score goals
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It's not even clear at all that Ronaldo is the better scorer: his all time ratio is 0.72 goals per game (including 102 penalties, which account for almost 16% of his goals), while Messi's is 0.81 (77 penalties, 13% of his goals); all this while being vastly inferior in almost all other aspects of the game

Not that Messi needs the numbers, he only needs for people to actually watch the matches and not to be hardcore Ronaldo and/or Real Madrid fans
 
meneillosRC said:
It's not even clear at all that Ronaldo is the better scorer: his all time ratio is 0.72 goals per game (including 102 penalties, which account for almost 16% of his goals), while Messi's is 0.81 (77 penalties, 13% of his goals); all this while being vastly inferior in almost all other aspects of the game

Not that Messi needs the numbers, he only needs for people to actually watch the matches and not to be hardcore Ronaldo and/or Real Madrid fans
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There we go again with the all time goal ratio, about the only thing that Messi fans can hang onto. We've been through this numerous times in this very thread and I'm not going to repeat myself again.

Also, Ronaldo is NOT "vastly inferior" to anyone in any aspect of the game, claiming so is pure myopia.

As for your last line, if you seriously think everyone who disagrees with you are hardcore Ronaldo or RM fans, you're even more deluded than your average hardcore Messi fan.
 
Cal? said:
As for your last line, if you seriously think everyone who disagrees with you are hardcore Ronaldo or RM fans, you're even more deluded than your average hardcore Messi fan.
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The only one who is delusional here is you. You are an epitome of delusional fanboi stan and also a running joke on this forum.
 
I don't want to be involved in a hostile and endless argument, I think I made my point, and I apologise if someone took offense at something I wrote, keep in mind I'm not a native English speaker and sometimes I may not be able to find the right words or tone for the point I'm trying to make. But I do want to make it crystal clear that I couldn't care less about Messi, and yes, I've admitted to being a Ronaldo hater in the past, but those days are long gone now, and I'm perfectly capable of enjoying both of them and I've been for years

Regards
 
Semiarty said:
The only one who is delusional here is you. You are an epitome of delusional fanboi stan and also a running joke on this forum.
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Ah yes, a Barcelona fan. I'm sure you're a complete neutral on the subject.
 
On a different note, I heard Pelé comparing Neymar to Messi rather than Ronaldo this morning, but I honestly don't think Neymar will ever come close to the level of those 2 honestly. He just doesn't have the goals in em the other 2 have. He's more like a young Ronaldo with slightly better dribbling skills.
 
KirkDuyt said:
but I honestly don't think Neymar will ever come close to the level of those 2 honestly.
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I'm not talking about Neymar in particular, but I'm sure we'll see loads and loads of Ballon d'Or winners in the next years/decades who won't come close to their level, even if they are fecking great players themselves.
 
JB7 said:
Ah yes, a Barcelona fan. I'm sure you're a complete neutral on the subject.
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On the subject of him being a delusional stan? It doesn't matter what team I support. I didn't say anything about the matter they were discussing, for which I should apologize as I went off topic. It grinds my gears that there are people like him on this forum who berate others for no reason.
 
Cal? said:
There we go again with the all time goal ratio, about the only thing that Messi fans can hang onto.
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Considering the only argument people use for Ron over Messi is his goal scoring.

Considering Ronaldo only has less than 10 more important decisive goals in the CL compared to Messi.

Messi has 90 ish more assists in his career, 30 less goals in 150 less games.

Higher passing success ratio, more successful dribbles, more successful key passes.

They have very similar individual awards, but Messi pisses all over Ronaldo for club trophies and awards.

If we take away goals and assists and key goals (because they are eerily similar in that respect), just watching them both play we can all see who is better.

Stats can’t always be the way to justify who is better, otherwise Gerrard and Lampard would be seen as better than Xavi and Pirlo as the former have more goals and assists than the latter.
 
Imagine one group would suddenly cave and change their opinion due to this thread. It would be amazing.
 
Thing is, Ronaldo is at his best when you read about him. All the records and the stats are mind bending. Then you tune in and see the likes of Isco, Modric and even Marcelo, who seem to have a better command of the football and see Ronaldo fire several shots at defenders or wide before he inevitably gets his goal (granted he's been a lot less selfish recently). It's a bit of a disappointment.

Then you watch Messi and even if he has a bad or ineffectual game, he pretty much always looks head and shoulders above everyone else technically and creatively. Players regarded as highly as Alexis Sanchez and Di Maria look cumbersome and crude when sharing a pitch with him. Can you remember having watched a game where Ronaldo and Messi were on the pitch together and thought Ronaldo was the better player? I can't.
 
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