Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Peyroteo]

not really, you are missing a huge point. Football fans are more attracted by aesthetics, and after 30years when people will watch youtube highlights, they will be more pleased and bewildered by Messi.
why are Best\Cruyff remembered as a better player and gets more attention from new generation than Charlton, despite Charlton\Muller winning WC, Ballon Dor, scoring more and assisting more?
answer is simple, Best's and Cruyff's style of play is more pleasing to eye, more wow evoking, and I am completely ignoring the fact that Best and Cruyff were better players, since CR7 advocates only count goals, assists and number of trophies won.



Apart from aesthetics, when they will check stats of Messi and CR7, they will not find much difference in goals or assists.
so it will always be difficult for Cristiano to get nod over Messi, today, tommorow or 100years later, whether fair or not.

Will they? They'll watch a video of Ronaldo and be just as pleased and bewildered... and that's ANY version of Ronaldo. From 2002 to 2018. Aesthetics has nothing to do with it and if it did Ronaldo has that going for him too, can't believe you're arguing otherwise. For a lot of people Best isn't rated higher than Gerd Muller either, Muller's only problem was that he wasn't the best player on his team.

'since CR7 advocates only count goals, assists and number of trophies won.'

No... (arguably) being the greatest player ever in the greatest club competition in the world and having done more internationally is what matters. When people judge current players, they judge how consistently good their performances are, when people judge past players they can separate it and look at what they've achieved more directly. The biggest competitions in the world have few games. I think a lot of people either don't understand this concept or just don't want to which is why for example you had a lot of people arguing Messi had a better 2017 than Ronaldo and should have won the Ballon D'Or...

 

[Givenchy]

Will they? They'll watch a video of Ronaldo and be just as pleased and bewildered... and that's ANY version of Ronaldo. From 2002 to 2018. Aesthetics has nothing to do with it and if it did Ronaldo has that going for him too, can't believe you're arguing otherwise. For a lot of people Best isn't rated higher than Gerd Muller either, Muller's only problem was that he wasn't the best player on his team.

'since CR7 advocates only count goals, assists and number of trophies won.'

No... (arguably) being the greatest player ever in the greatest club competition in the world and having done more internationally is what matters. When people judge current players, they judge how consistently good their performances are, when people judge past players they can separate it and look at what they've achieved more directly. The biggest competitions in the world have few games. I think a lot of people either don't understand this concept or just don't want to which is why for example you had a lot of people arguing Messi had a better 2017 than Ronaldo and should have won the Ballon D'Or...

Ronaldo's youtube compilations will be 20% golazos, 50% tap ins/penalties, 10% pointless stepovers and 20% diving.

Just look at Rio Ferdinands (a player who played with Ronaldo) reaction to watching Messi live.. that about sums it up for me.

 

[Lord SInister]

Like I've already said, you can agree or disagree if they've been better in the Champions League and NT. I'm talking about the way people generally view this debate, not me personally.

If you ask people who the better CL player is Ronaldo will win[\B]. If you ask who's been better for their country, the results will be pretty divided. If you ask who's the better player, people will say Messi... It makes no sense. There are a lot of people who think Ronaldo's done better than Messi in the CL and for his country that would still rate Messi the better player of the two... how can that be possible?

because majority who voted for Cristiano in that thread, also voted for Cristiano in this thread.

Asides, margin of difference between them is not much in CL.
For example, say someone voted for Cristiano in that CL, because he thinks Cristiano is 95/100 in cl, but the same person might be having Messi as 94/100 in cl, while he might give cristiano, 90/100 in domestic scenario, while giving Messi 95/100, while each is rated 80/100 for NT,
plus in output(goals and assists) are same 100/100
and than finally when it comes to individual playing style, they might give Cristiano 85/100, and give Messi 100/100.

So basically Messi triumphs because of style. No matter how much stats is thrown, football players at the end of the day are rated based on style of play.

And especially when there is no difference in output or achievement, than it is very difficult for the player with less pleasing style to win. Like if it was Muller vs Riquelme, Muller wins easily because despite having a more pleasing style, Muller towers Riquelme in performance, output and achievement. But when it comes to Messi and Cristiano cannot tower Messi in terms of performance or output, while style of play, Messi is always prefered by majority, hence votes swing his way.

Plus, I know, you and cal hate this factor but have to do this.

You have one player A who is doing the function of three players(dribbler, playmaker and goal scorer) in almost every match while giving as much output as another player B who can match player A in terms of output and goal scoring, but flatter in other two function when compared with player A, people will automatically rate A better.
because at the end of the day, football is much more than stats. We hear the phrase, "they all count", true, very much true. But what that phrase misses out is, in football, emphasis is always given to "how" over "how many", whether you find it fair or not, but that is how football is for majority of people.

 

[Lord SInister]

Will they? They'll watch a video of Ronaldo and be just as pleased and bewildered... and that's ANY version of Ronaldo. From 2002 to 2018. Aesthetics has nothing to do with it and if it did Ronaldo has that going for him too, can't believe you're arguing otherwise. For a lot of people Best isn't rated higher than Gerd Muller either, Muller's only problem was that he wasn't the best player on his team.

'since CR7 advocates only count goals, assists and number of trophies won.'

No... (arguably) being the greatest player ever in the greatest club competition in the world and having done more internationally is what matters. When people judge current players, they judge how consistently good their performances are, when people judge past players they can separate it and look at what they've achieved more directly. The biggest competitions in the world have few games. I think a lot of people either don't understand this concept or just don't want to which is why for example you had a lot of people arguing Messi had a better 2017 than Ronaldo and should have won the Ballon D'Or...[/QUOTE

Cristiano is not better aesthetically than Messi, neither was he in 2002-2008 nor today nor tomorrow. And that have, has and will be always a thing which will go against him when compared with Messi. When individually seen, Cristiano is great, compared to Messi, he flatters visually.

And Cristiano does not tower Messi either in performances nor achievements whether it is domestic or international platform. He is either marginally better or as good. He is not clear cut above Messi in those departments, while departments which attract most of the football fans like dribbling and creative passing , Messi is cut above him
and that swings people over him. Whether it is fair or not, but that is how people are attracted towards football.

George Best will always be seen a better player than Muller, people may rank the latter in all time lists because of his achievements, but when it compared with Best on individual talent, he will be considered inferior.

as for 2017, most people who voted for Messi were Messi fans, most(and I will explain who dints why) of the neutrals gave nod to Cris, while also acknowledging that Messi was better majority of the season, but he failed to finish the season on high while Cristiano took off when it mattered. Hence most of the neutrals voted for Cristiano, while those neutrals who voted for Messi see overall year consistency. I don't agree with them, as Cristiano delivered the goods well enough to deserve the gold.



And finally my answers are on why majority of people of see messi as better player and will continue to see as such.

 

[Peyroteo]

because majority who voted for Cristiano in that thread, also voted for Cristiano in this thread.

This is not true and I'm not talking just about the caf. Most people will agree Ronaldo's done more in the CL.

Asides, margin of difference between them is not much in CL.
For example, say someone voted for Cristiano in that CL, because he thinks Cristiano is 95/100 in cl, but the same person might be having Messi as 94/100 in cl, while he might give cristiano, 90/100 in domestic scenario, while giving Messi 95/100, while each is rated 80/100 for NT,
plus in output(goals and assists) are same 100/100
and than finally when it comes to individual playing style, they might give Cristiano 85/100, and give Messi 100/100.

If people rate their performances the same for their countries, Messi more in the league and Ronaldo more in the Champions League... at the very least it should be a very close decision.

And especially when there is no difference in output or achievement, than it is very difficult for the player with less pleasing style to win. Like if it was Muller vs Riquelme, Muller wins easily because despite having a more pleasing style, Muller towers Riquelme in performance, output and achievement. But when it comes to Messi and Cristiano cannot tower Messi in terms of performance or output, while style of play, Messi is always prefered by majority, hence votes swing his way.

Plus, I know, you and cal hate this factor but have to do this.

You have one player A who is doing the function of three players(dribbler, playmaker and goal scorer) in almost every match while giving as much output as another player B who can match player A in terms of output and goal scoring, but flatter in other two function when compared with player A, people will automatically rate A better.

Yes, they will but I've already explained why I think they're completely wrong to do so. The logic of 'Messi scores about as much as Ronaldo but he creates more therefore he's a better player' treats all goals, all matches and all competitions as having the same importance when they don't.

2017 was the the perfect example of it, Messi's the better dribbler and creator plus he scores about as much.. but in the 4 CL games he played he didn't really do much with it while Ronaldo did and he easily had a better year. Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo, Messi was the better passer, Messi was the better dribbler... and Ronaldo was better.

What I'm trying to say and I think we've drifted off the main subject is that this way of thinking a lot of people have like you said, it won't be the same when people look back on their careers as it is now.

because at the end of the day, football is much more than stats. We hear the phrase, "they all count", true, very much true. But what that phrase misses out is, in football, emphasis is always given to "how" over "how many", whether you find it fair or not, but that is how football is for majority of people.

I don't understand why you keep repeating that football is more than stats to me, I agree with that. I disagree with a lot of what Cal says on this thread too, seems like you're grouping us together and putting his comments as mine when that's not the case.

Goals are a tricky thing. If they're easy or difficult, important or irrelevant, beautiful or ugly, they all count the same. A player scoring as often as another player doesn't make them equally good at scoring goals. Kane scored as much as Ronaldo last season, difference was Ronaldo scored about 20 big goals at the end of the season while Kane scored a bunch in meaningless games.

 

[Peyroteo]

Ronaldo's youtube compilations will be 20% golazos, 50% tap ins/penalties, 10% pointless stepovers and 20% diving.

Just look at Rio Ferdinands (a player who played with Ronaldo) reaction to watching Messi live.. that about sums it up for me.

I don't think I've ever seen a comment summing up so accurately the relationship between Ronaldo and Barcelona fans

 

[Lord SInister]

This is not true and I'm not talking just about the caf. Most people will agree Ronaldo's done more in the CL.

It is not most people though. And many people who give nod to CR, also know that Messi's career is not over, another UCL title and he will be in the front seat again in CL.

If people rate their performances the same for their countries, Messi more in the league and Ronaldo more in the Champions League... at the very least it should be a very close decision

.

Again you are ignoring style of play factor, which is huge.

Yes, they will but I've already explained why I think they're completely wrong to do so. The logic of 'Messi scores about as much as Ronaldo but he creates more therefore he's a better player' treats all goals, all matches and all competitions as having the same importance when they don't.

This is where you get it wrong. You are calling people wrong for having an opinion.

Also let us not forget Messi also has had sensational UCL performances, great performances in big league games, and in performances in El Classico have been phenomenal.
So it is not that he only performs in small games and flatters in big stages.
And a big thing that goes against Cristiano since he moved to Real Madrid, apart from few expectations, matches where he does not score, he is rarely the most impactful player, while Messi most of the time becomes central figure even in matches he does not score.
And kind of things influence people's decision when comparing players.

2017 was the the perfect example of it, Messi's the better dribbler and creator plus he scores about as much.. but in the 4 CL games he played he didn't really do much with it while Ronaldo did and he easily had a better year. Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo, Messi was the better passer, Messi was the better dribbler... and Ronaldo was better.

you cannot outright say Cristiano had better 2016/17 or 2017 than Messi or he was better throughout the year.
He performed better in the CLs final stage, while Messi failed to replicate his group stage performances in KOs.
Hence Cristiano triumphed last year as he proved to be more vital in critical stage for his club helping them win biggest prizes, hence more deserving of the Ballon Dor.
But calling him outright the better is trivalising Messi performances throughout the year.

What I'm trying to say and I think we've drifted off the main subject is that this way of thinking a lot of people have like you said, it won't be the same when people look back on their careers as it is now.

And my point is, the very reason which influences people today in rating Messi over Cristiano will, influence them even after 30years, if they retired today.

I don't understand why you keep repeating that football is more than stats to me, I agree with that. I disagree with a lot of what Cal says on this thread too, seems like you're grouping us together and putting his comments as mine when that's not the case.

sorry if I sound rude but you are a discreet version of Cal. You unconciously say the same thing as Cal. Both of them ignore everything else and concentrate only on CL KO, because that is one area where Cristiano has huge statistical advantage.

Goals are a tricky thing. If they're easy or difficult, important or irrelevant, beautiful or ugly, they all count the same.

they count same, but people always remember the more pleasing goals, and the player who scored them.
hence Maradona goal vs England is still remember in picturesque memory while a much more vital, WC final goal by muller in 1974 is hardly remembered by people.
And these thing hugely influence when deciding who is a better player.

A player scoring as often as another player doesn't make them equally good at scoring goals. Kane scored as much as Ronaldo last season, difference was Ronaldo scored about 20 big goals at the end of the season while Kane scored a bunch in meaningless games.

but we are here comparing with Messi, who throughout his career have scored in big games.
and we cannot just say that only CL knockouts are big games, and other are meaningless.

 

[Suhail]

It is not most people though. And many people who give nod to CR, also know that Messi's career is not over, another UCL title and he will be in the front seat again in CL.



.

Again you are ignoring style of play factor, which is huge.




This is where you get it wrong. You are calling people wrong for having an opinion.

Also let us not forget Messi also has had sensational UCL performances, great performances in big league games, and in performances in El Classico have been phenomenal.
So it is not that he only performs in small games and flatters in big stages.
And a big thing that goes against Cristiano since he moved to Real Madrid, apart from few expectations, matches where he does not score, he is rarely the most impactful player, while Messi most of the time becomes central figure even in matches he does not score.
And kind of things influence people's decision when comparing players.



you cannot outright say Cristiano had better 2016/17 or 2017 than Messi or he was better throughout the year.
He performed better in the CLs final stage, while Messi failed to replicate his group stage performances in KOs.
Hence Cristiano triumphed last year as he proved to be more vital in critical stage for his club helping them win biggest prizes, hence more deserving of the Ballon Dor.
But calling him outright the better is trivalising Messi performances throughout the year.




And my point is, the very reason which influences people today in rating Messi over Cristiano will, influence them even after 30years, if they retired today.





sorry if I sound rude but you are a discreet version of Cal. You unconciously say the same thing as Cal. Both of them ignore everything else and concentrate only on CL KO, because that is one area where Cristiano has huge statistical advantage.




they count same, but people always remember the more pleasing goals, and the player who scored them.
hence Maradona goal vs England is still remember in picturesque memory while a much more vital, WC final goal by muller in 1974 is hardly remembered by people.
And these thing hugely influence when deciding who is a better player.




but we are here comparing with Messi, who throughout his career have scored in big games.
and we cannot just say that only CL knockouts are big games, and other are meaningless.

Superb post, plus this concept that Messi flatters to deceive in crucial games, honestly, I don’t bother anymore, the guy is like the ultimate big game player
They just look at goals scored at the knockout stages and try to prove that he’s not as good but if you analyze the games you’d realize what he brings to the table and that’s more important than goals

 

[RedRonaldo]

not really, you are missing a huge point. Football fans are more attracted by aesthetics, and after 30years when people will watch youtube highlights, they will be more pleased and bewildered by Messi.

Err actually a younger Ronaldo in YouTube video are just as eye-pleasing as Messi or any past great. I always think with “YouTube evidence” and insane stats/goals/records/achievements, people born after 30 years would rate Ronaldo the best ever.

 

[Schneckerl]

I tell you all why looking at KO goal totals as some kind of holy grail is very, very misleading.

Cristiano's 08/09 season. If someone is lazy and just looks at his goal scoring / assists one might assume he was nothing special with just 4 goals / 1 assist, but if you take a closer look it was one of his best KO stages imo and he was crucial in 3 rounds vs Inter, Porto and Arsenal.

 

[Suhail]

Err actually a younger Ronaldo in YouTube video are just as eye-pleasing as Messi or any past great. I always think with “YouTube evidence” and insane stats/goals/records/achievements, people born after 30 years would rate Ronaldo the best ever.

Showboating and being predictive while also being aesthetically pleasing will defo be easily distinguishable 30 years from now

 

[Posh Red]

Err actually a younger Ronaldo in YouTube video are just as eye-pleasing as Messi or any past great. I always think with “YouTube evidence” and insane stats/goals/records/achievements, people born after 30 years would rate Ronaldo the best ever.

Ronaldo has never been as good to watch as Messi. Even when he was at United. I can never understand how people can watch the two players and come to these conclusions.

 

[mancan92]

If he was clearly better, we either wouldn't have this conversation at all, or if we actually did this poll would have quite different results. Obviously there are quite a few people who don't share your opinion...

@Peyroteo

I am a bit late with my answer, sorry for that. I don't really browse the internet outside my desktop computer, and I've had difficulty finding time the last couple of days.

I honestly feel you're fighting an uphill battle here, your arguments make sense to an extent IMO, you're just forgetting that football in the end is a pretty visceral sport that strikes an emotive chord with a majority of the people. That's why I've implied that all these Ballon d'Or numbers won't make that much of a difference (if any at all) in the end.

If i understood your argument well (feel free to correct me obviously) you feel that on the ball skills are just a part of a footballer's arsenal, and that they should not be the be all end all, but that they have to be balanced with physical and mental skills (at which Ronaldo mostly excells). Thing is, you just need to take a quick glance at the aforementioned award and you'll realize that, historically at least, those skills were exceptionally valued indeed (obviously much higher than all the others, and it remains to this day, rightly or wrongly).

I personally have zero problem with Ronaldo, it was his decision to reinvent himself as a primarily off the ball inside forward who scores a boatload of goals, and in terms of trophies and individual awards it has obviously worked. On the other hand, I guess there is a reason why 99% of the people would consider Maradona a better player than Iniesta...Using your achievements based, trophies won, longevity logic you'd probably end up at 50-50 in that particular situation.

Sorry in advance if i sounded confrontational anywhere here, that was the furthest thing from my mind.

He has been clearly better in the champions league. That is only a debate some Messi fan boys will bring up. It's not really a debate.

Messi has the better of the league performance and records and they are about the same when it comes to international play.

 

[thelittlestelf]

You can't just discount one competition and put the other on a pedestal. League is the measure of consistency and thats where Messi has been better. Ronaldo has stepped it up big time in the Champions league but to put it down to just him would be insane. Ramos, Modric and development of Casemiro has been crucial to Madrid becoming a better side as well.

Pyro you seem extremely desperate, you claim its fine for others to think someone is better but then you go on to tell them why their wrong.

 

[Zlaatan]

Like I've already said, you can agree or disagree if they've been better in the Champions League and NT. I'm talking about the way people generally view this debate, not me personally.

If you ask people who the better CL player is Ronaldo will win. If you ask who's been better for their country, the results will be pretty divided. If you ask who's the better player, people will say Messi... It makes no sense. There are a lot of people who think Ronaldo's done better than Messi in the CL and for his country that would still rate Messi the better player of the two... how can that be possible?

Because being better in one specific tournament (even if that's very much up for debate) isn't the end all be all of what makes a player better than the other. X amount of select matches in the CL isn't the golden standard of which everyone judges the quality of a player. You seem to put a lot of weight into that, and while that is perfectly fine you can't ignore other people's opinion just because they don't use the same metrics to come to their conclusion. IMO it's much more logical to look at a whole career when judging how good a player is, i.e you look at the games where their teams doesn't win, you look at what happens when they attack but fail to score etc. If you only look at the positive ends of what a player achieves, or especially what his teams acheive, you are going to miss out on tons of factors which shows how good a single player is.

You and a couple of other people on here seem to argue that Ronaldo is better because of a couple of very specific aspects over the course of his career. The Messi side seem to just go with "just look at them play, overall Messi is the better player", and I think that's pretty interesting. If you need to twist and turn the achievements of a player to seperate him from the rest you're on a very slippery slope imo.

 

[SCP]

@Peyroteo Its useless to discuss with Messi fans, they just belong to a fanatic cult where facts don't matter, they will do everything possible to dismiss Cristiano, this said by someone who believes Messi is better must be said.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

@Peyroteo Its useless to discuss with Messi fans, they just belong to a fanatic cult where facts don't matter, they will do everything possibel to dismiss Cristiano, this said by someone who believes Messi is better must be said.

It isn’t to do with being “in a cult” that is ridiculous to state, just because a person has a different opinion to yourself. Does that make you “in a Ronaldo cult”?

Some Ronaldo fans seems to ignore the facts and stats about Messi, it works both ways with some people.

Ronaldo is 5th in the greatest of all time in my opinion, Messi is 3rd in my opinion. Ronaldo being only 2 places behind Messi in the greatest of all time is not a criticism of Ronaldo, just that I believe Messi is better.

I am sure many people believe Ronaldo to be one of the greatest of all time, but believe that Messi is better. That isn’t knocking what Ronaldo has achieved.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ronaldo has never been as good to watch as Messi. Even when he was at United. I can never understand how people can watch the two players and come to these conclusions.

In actual match Messi is usually better to watch. But the thing is in youtube, you only get to see a showcasing glimpse of players' talent.

 

[Tostao_80]

Err actually a younger Ronaldo in YouTube video are just as eye-pleasing as Messi or any past great. I always think with “YouTube evidence” and insane stats/goals/records/achievements, people born after 30 years would rate Ronaldo the best ever.

You are just totally wrong. Let me put it this way. Messi envokes more emotion from football watchers than Ronaldo. That feeling that leaves in you in absolute awe after watching one of his games (ie at home to Bayern). The likes of Rio, watching at the time, were so engrossed and entranced by what they’d seen, they were like excited school kids. Even a game where he didn’t score (City away), people were in disbelief at such a performance. Against Chelsea, you had Conte practically grab him and walk him down the tunnel, arms around the shoulders, telling him how much in awe he was. Ronaldo doesn’t even come to leaving this kind of emotional imprint on people. And that is arguably the biggest intangible here. That’s why people remember Best and Cruyff.

 

[PuyolC]

Will they? They'll watch a video of Ronaldo and be just as pleased and bewildered... and that's ANY version of Ronaldo. From 2002 to 2018. Aesthetics has nothing to do with it and if it did Ronaldo has that going for him too, can't believe you're arguing otherwise. For a lot of people Best isn't rated higher than Gerd Muller either, Muller's only problem was that he wasn't the best player on his team.

'since CR7 advocates only count goals, assists and number of trophies won.'

No... (arguably) being the greatest player ever in the greatest club competition in the world and having done more internationally is what matters. When people judge current players, they judge how consistently good their performances are, when people judge past players they can separate it and look at what they've achieved more directly. The biggest competitions in the world have few games. I think a lot of people either don't understand this concept or just don't want to which is why for example you had a lot of people arguing Messi had a better 2017 than Ronaldo and should have won the Ballon D'Or...

No idea how you're missing the point.

Ronaldo is considered the best UCL player because he has more goals and more clutch performances in this competition than Messi.

Messi is considered the better player because in all competitions during a season they score nearly the same amount of goals but one of them dribbles more, has more assists and creates more chances.

Saying that Ronaldo is the best UCL player and that Messi is the best player isn't contradictory, it means one performs better in one competition and the other performs better during a season.

 

[Rajma]

I'm not sure why people can't understand that for most not everything is about stats otherwise Maradona wouldn't be in contention, for majority meaning best "is something you can't replicate with football" and Messi does much more of that than Ronaldo. In fact, that's not to say Ronaldo is not great at what he does, most people simply find it less impressive given the nature of it and as @The holy trinity 68 said he's 5th in that greatest list too for me and that's phenomenal in itself.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You are just totally wrong. Let me put it this way. Messi envokes more emotion from football watchers than Ronaldo. That feeling that leaves in you in absolute awe after watching one of his games (ie at home to Bayern). The likes of Rio, watching at the time, were so engrossed and entranced by what they’d seen, they were like excited school kids. Even a game where he didn’t score (City away), people were in disbelief at such a performance. Against Chelsea, you had Conte practically grab him and walk him down the tunnel, arms around the shoulders, telling him how much in awe he was. Ronaldo doesn’t even come to leaving this kind of emotional imprint on people. And that is arguably the biggest intangible here. That’s why people remember Best and Cruyff.

The keyword is youtube.

 

[breakout67]

I'm quite amused by these absolute claims that some people bring forth for Messi about subjective criteria. Messi is apparently more aesthetically pleasing, envokes more emotion, is more beautiful etc.

I've watched Messi live once, and he looked like a lost child. He does a lot of walking around as if he is a stranger on the pitch, then he comes to life and does something ridiculous. He is what people try to do in video games and fail...he does it in real life.

Ronaldo on the other hand is more predictable, but it's still impossible to stop. He's like that guy that's been in his job for so long that he does difficult things so easily that take years and years of practice for any normal person...even then 99.9% of people won't be able to do what he does with practice.

I think there is something admirable about honing your craft and becoming the best in the world as a result, especially against a freak of nature that is Messi. By all accounts Messi has essentially been the same player since he was a young player, he has improved physically as he grew but as a teenager he was doing things that no one else in his team could do (that goal against Getafe is IMO his best goal ever, and he did that at 19 years old).

 

[Moonred]

Messi is the better player. Water is wet. Thanks for the essays.

 

[Rajma]

I'm quite amused by these absolute claims that some people bring forth for Messi about subjective criteria. Messi is apparently more aesthetically pleasing, envokes more emotion, is more beautiful etc.

I've watched Messi live once, and he looked like a lost child. He does a lot of walking around as if he is a stranger on the pitch, then he comes to life and does something ridiculous. He is what people try to do in video games and fail...he does it in real life.

Ronaldo on the other hand is more predictable, but it's still impossible to stop. He's like that guy that's been in his job for so long that he does difficult things so easily that take years and years of practice for any normal person...even then 99.9% of people won't be able to do what he does with practice.

I think there is something admirable about honing your craft and becoming the best in the world as a result, especially against a freak of nature that is Messi. By all accounts Messi has essentially been the same player since he was a young player, he has improved physically as he grew but as a teenager he was doing things that no one else in his team could do (that goal against Getafe is IMO his best goal ever, and he did that at 19 years old).

I watched Messi once too, scored an individual hattrick away from home and was leaving opposition defenders for dead by going past them with such ease I've never seen from the player before.

What do you mean by subjective criteria? If stats would be the only measurement of the objectivity in football Ronaldo would be considered 5 times the player Maradona was, or you agree with this notion?

 

[KirkDuyt]

Ronaldo has never been as good to watch as Messi. Even when he was at United. I can never understand how people can watch the two players and come to these conclusions.

Some people just really like millions of step overs. And for those people, young Ronaldo is about as eye pleasing as it gets.

Doing away with those pointless step overs and just focussing on his speed, strength and finishing made him the player he is today.

Personally I think Ronaldo's tenacity and visible hunger in his game are very pleasing to watch. Everything about him just screams, I WANT TO FECKING SCORE, he's perpetually possessed. That's why he's not that happy when a teammate scores. He wants to score and he wants to score now. You can view this as selfish, which it probably is, but it's also the reason he's so ridiculously good.

I think raw talent wise there is no Messi vs Ronaldo debate, but the fact that there is such a huge argument who's the better player is a great testament to Ronaldo's willpower.

That said, I prefer Messi and think Ronaldo is an insufferable prick. He's an extremely good insufferable prick who deserves respect though.

Messi is just meh, I don't give two shites about him either way. No discernible personality whatsoever. I prefer a bit of emotion in my footballers.

 

[Cal?]

I didn’t include the 2006 win because he didn’t feature in the quarters, semi’s or final.

But Ronaldo didn’t even reach multiple finals, and they only got to the final because of the best 3rd placed group team. They drew all 3 group games against poor national teams in Iceland, Austria, Hungary. Ron didn’t exactly inspire them in the group.

They then beat Croatia 1-0 after extra time, beat Poland on Penalties, then only had to beat Wales in the Semi’s.

Ronaldo scored 2 in the group stage. Quaresma scored the winner against Croatia, Sanches scored the goal against Poland. Ronaldo scored the 2nd vs Wales so they still would have won without his goal.

So 2 goals in a group game and 1 goal in the Semi’s, whilst playing mediocre teams en route to the final. Not exactly inspiring Portugal to win the tournament is it. Actually quite laughable to say that he has won a trophy for his country and Messi hasn’t. When Ronaldo was average.

Well, he actually made the Euro 2004 final as well, the Euro is much much harder than the Copa America and it's not played all the time.

They got to the final by doing what they needed to, the rules for 3rd place was in place before the tournament began, and ask any Portugal fan and they'd agree that Ronaldo was a key player for them.

The don't understand how a FACT can be laughable.

 

[Cal?]

maybe because Cristiano actually has not been better than Messi in CL by convincable margin, hence people don't give him nod when comparing them as a whole?
Plus I don't think Cristiano has been any better than Messi in NT, whether it is luck or destiny, a crap player like Eder scored a blinder in final, while a world class Higuian was missing sitters.
that is the only difference.

I don't know what you've been watching in the last few years, Cristiano Ronaldo has been miles better than Messi if we look at the CL only. Messi is still in this conversation due to his La Liga exploits.

As for Higuain missing sitters, it also doesn't help when Messi missed penalties.

 

[Rajma]

Some people just really like millions of step overs. And for those people, young Ronaldo is about as eye pleasing as it gets.

Doing away with those pointless step overs and just focussing on his speed, strength and finishing made him the player he is today.

Personally I think Ronaldo's tenacity and visible hunger in his game are very pleasing to watch. Everything about him just screams, I WANT TO FECKING SCORE, he's perpetually possessed. That's why he's not that happy when a teammate scores. He wants to score and he wants to score now. You can view this as selfish, which it probably is, but it's also the reason he's so ridiculously good.

I think raw talent wise there is no Messi vs Ronaldo debate, but the fact that there is such a huge argument who's the better player is a great testament to Ronaldo's willpower.

That said, I prefer Messi and think Ronaldo is an insufferable prick. He's an extremely good insufferable prick who deserves respect though.

Messi is just meh, I don't give two shites about him either way. No discernible personality whatsoever. I prefer a bit of emotion in my footballers.

That’s actually a very good overview and very closely matched with my stance.

 

[SCP]

It isn’t to do with being “in a cult” that is ridiculous to state, just because a person has a different opinion to yourself. Does that make you “in a Ronaldo cult”?

Beside the fact I already said Messi is better?

Some Ronaldo fans seems to ignore the facts and stats about Messi, it works both ways with some people.

Do you know if I am a fan, superfan or no fan?

Ronaldo is 5th in the greatest of all time in my opinion, Messi is 3rd in my opinion. Ronaldo being only 2 places behind Messi in the greatest of all time is not a criticism of Ronaldo, just that I believe Messi is better.

And what does have to do with what I mentioned before?

 

[Zlaatan]

I don't know what you've been watching in the last few years, Cristiano Ronaldo has been miles better than Messi if we look at the CL only. Messi is still in this conversation due to his La Liga exploits.

As for Higuain missing sitters, it also doesn't help when Messi missed penalties.

So the only metric to go by when deciding who is the better player is the last few years of the CL and everything before that is irrelevant? Or did you argue as passionately about Messi being the CL goat 4 years ago?

 

[Tostao_80]

The keyword is youtube.

People won’t need to look at YouTube in 30 Years in order to know who was better, they’ll know (the majority) that it was Messi. You don’t need YouTube to know that Maradonna is better than Platini. Most people see Messi as better, there’s no logical reason to assume that it will change over time.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Beside the fact I already said Messi is better?
Do you know if I am a fan, superfan or no fan?
And what does have to do with what I mentioned before?

You misunderstood, i didn’t mean it to sound like it was directed at you. I was talking about fans in general.

 

[Cal?]

It isn’t to do with being “in a cult” that is ridiculous to state, just because a person has a different opinion to yourself. Does that make you “in a Ronaldo cult”?

Some Ronaldo fans seems to ignore the facts and stats about Messi, it works both ways with some people.

Ronaldo is 5th in the greatest of all time in my opinion, Messi is 3rd in my opinion. Ronaldo being only 2 places behind Messi in the greatest of all time is not a criticism of Ronaldo, just that I believe Messi is better.

I am sure many people believe Ronaldo to be one of the greatest of all time, but believe that Messi is better. That isn’t knocking what Ronaldo has achieved.

Personally I have no problems with people who have a similar opinion to you (even though I disagree). But I'm sure you can see their are members of the Messi "cult" who cannot even acknowledge Cristiano Ronaldo as a top player.

We've had people claim fat Ronaldo, Rivaldo, etc were better players.

 

[Cal?]

So the only metric to go by when deciding who is the better player is the last few years of the CL and everything before that is irrelevant? Or did you argue as passionately about Messi being the CL goat 4 years ago?

I literally pointed out that Messi is still in the debate because of his La Liga exploits. How did you arrive in the conclusion that I think "the only metric to go by when deciding who is the better player is the last few years of the CL"?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Personally I have no problems with people who have a similar opinion to you (even though I disagree). But I'm sure you can see their are members of the Messi "cult" who cannot even acknowledge Cristiano Ronaldo as a top player.

We've had people claim fat Ronaldo, Rivaldo, etc were better players.

Yes I totally agree with you, some people wont acknowledge Ronaldo as one of the greats. Especially saying R9 and Rivaldo were better. Fair enough if they think that at their peak as it is their opinion, but for their whole career it is ludicrous.

 

[Zlaatan]

I literally pointed out that Messi is still in the debate because of his La Liga exploits. How did you arrive in the conclusion that I think "the only metric to go by when deciding who is the better player is the last few years of the CL"?

Looked to me like you argued that Ronaldo is the better player because of the last few years of the CL and that's why I asked if you used to think that Messi was the best 4 years ago. Your constant "CL GOAT" posts may have something to do with it as well. Anyway, who do you think was the better player 4 years ago?

 

[Zlaatan]

How many people in here have said that Ronaldo isn't one of the all time greats? Even if you thought he was the 10th best of all time that surely puts him in that category no? It's more like the Ronaldo fans are throwing a fit when people say that they think player x, y and z are better.

 

[Cal?]

Looked to me like you argued that Ronaldo is the better player because of the last few years of the CL and that's why I asked if you used to think that Messi was the best 4 years ago. Your constant "CL GOAT" posts may have something to do with it as well. Anyway, who do you think was the better player 4 years ago?

Messi had a much stronger case 4 years ago. I’ve always maintained that Cristiano is better and the last few years have proven me right.

 

[SCP]

You misunderstood, i didn’t mean it to sound like it was directed at you. I was talking about fans in general.

Ok no problem.