Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
What the hell is this?
We only talk about Messi fanatics, but these Cristiano fanboys are ridiculous on their own right.
Messi fanboys have a point thoughWe only talk about Messi fanatics, but these Cristiano fanboys are ridiculous on their own right.
Well, i do think Messi is better but i know that the image of the players tend to affect the general perception about them. The fact that people see Messi as a fluffy Ewok and not as someone who would steal your girlfriend probably have some unconsciouss impact.
Your username means 'loving' in portuguese but I'm not feeling the love. If you disagree with what I'm saying, argue it instead of doing that
@Peyroteo Let them believe their own hype, they just flood the Internet while Messi runs away like a schoolboy after watching Argentina being trashed. I wonder if he is going to play this weekend.
This poll is restoring a little bit of my faith in football supporters. I'd actually started to think that the world was gone mad and that Ronaldo would end up being looked back on as the better of the two.
Ronaldo is now better than Maradona?! 
anyways as expected, a landslide in Messi's favour
anyways as expected, a landslide in Messi's favour
@SCP
I'm not trying to just have a discussion about it or mock people who think Messi's better, if anyone thinks Messi's better that's fine. My problem is how people argue about it.
Ronaldo has outperformed Messi in the Champions League and for his country, a lot of people would agree with that and still put Messi as the better player of the two. How can that be possible?
The majority of people here voted in a thread a few weeks ago that Ronaldo was the greatest CL player of all time, even if you think that Messi has been about as good as Ronaldo for his country, how can you have Messi as far away the better of the two?
It's the logic of 'Messi scores about as much as Ronaldo but he creates more therefore he's a better player' that I disagree with as it treats all goals, all matches and all competitions as having the same importance when they don't.
I'm not trying to just have a discussion about it or mock people who think Messi's better, if anyone thinks Messi's better that's fine. My problem is how people argue about it.
Ronaldo has outperformed Messi in the Champions League and for his country, a lot of people would agree with that and still put Messi as the better player of the two. How can that be possible?
The majority of people here voted in a thread a few weeks ago that Ronaldo was the greatest CL player of all time, even if you think that Messi has been about as good as Ronaldo for his country, how can you have Messi as far away the better of the two?
It's the logic of 'Messi scores about as much as Ronaldo but he creates more therefore he's a better player' that I disagree with as it treats all goals, all matches and all competitions as having the same importance when they don't.
I even don't want to be part of that discussion. Just think is honestly ridiculous whatsoever to say Messi is the best player ever, and yes I believe he is better than Cristiano, just feel Messi fanboys, Xavi or Pepistas are unbearable to listen.
It can in the sense you don't judge players only based on numbers. But anyway there is nothing who proves Messi is the best player ever. And they can repeat this 1 million times, put the bald cnut saying that, or Xavi preaching to us how football should be played, its not like they say period.
They can do whatever they want. After all is more easy to like Messi. He pays all his taxes like Cristiano after all
.There is a logic beyond that, and I genuinely think Messi is better, but honestly know its difficult to compare 2 totally different players, 1 is a modern version of a playmaker while the other is the modern version of a forward winger who is now a central forward or goalscorer if you like.
Why is there no option for putting them on the same level?
Read Rado's opening post on this thread
First of all Ronaldo was off injured in the final for Portugal in the EURO. Messi has been in 3 finals, not including 2007 when he was 16/17. So Ron and Messi both didn't contribute to winning in the final. But Messi has been to the WC final, Ronaldo has not.
Below is the important goals for both in the CL. If we start from 2009 as Ronaldo didn't score for his first 30 games in the CL, so not fair to compare vs Messi's start. The goals below show that Messi has scored 31 important goals vs Ronaldo's 46 after 2008 for reasons stated earlier.
Messi has 1 games and 1 goal where his team won by a large margin that didn't matter if Messi scored. Take that away and Messi has scored 30 vital CL goals.
Ronaldo has 7 games and 9 where his team won by a large margin that didn't matter if Ronaldo scored. Take that away and Ronaldo has scored 37 vital CL goals.
However Ronaldo has played 150 CL games and Messi 121. so 29 less games altogether and only 7 less vital goals, 8 if you include the 2008 final vs Chelsea.
Messi
2009
2 goals vs Bayern in quarter final first leg
1 vs united in final
2010
4 goals vs arsenal quarter final second leg
2011
1 vs shaktar quarter final second leg won 1 – 0
2 vs real madrid semi final second leg
1 vs man united final
2012
5 vs Leverkusen round of 16 second leg
2 vs Milan quarter final second leg
2013
2 vs Milan round of 16 second leg
1 quarter final first leg vs PSG
13/14
1 vs man city round 16 first leg won 2-0
1 vs man city round 16 sec leg won 2-1
14/15
2 vs Bayern semi final first leg won 3-0
15/16
2 vs arsenal round 16 1st leg
1 vs arsenal round 16 2nd leg won 5-1 on aggregate
Ronaldo
2007
1 vs Milan semi final lost 3-2 on aggregate
2008
1 vs Lyon round of 16. Second leg
1 vs Roma Quarter final. 1st leg
1 vs Chelsea in final
2009
1 vs inter round of 16 second leg
1 vs Porto quarter final second leg
2 vs Arsenal semi second leg
2010
1 vs Lyon round 16. second leg
1 vs Tottenham quarter first leg. 1 in second leg. won 5-0 on aggregate
2011
1 vs CSKA in round of 16 first leg. 2 in second leg won 5-1 on aggregate
2 vs Apoel quarter final second leg won 5-2 that match
2 vs Bayern semi final second leg won 2-1
12/13
2 vs Man United round 16. 1 in first leg 1 in second won 3-2 on aggregate
1 vs Galatasaray quarter final first leg 2 in second leg won 5-3 on aggregate
1 vs Dortmund semi first leg won 4-1
2014
4 vs Schalke over 2 legs. Won 9-2 on aggregate
1 vs Dortmund quarter first leg won 3-0
2 vs Bayern semi final second leg. won 4-0 that match
1 vs Atletico in final, to make it 4-1 from a penalty
2015
3 vs Schalke round of 16. 1 in first leg. 2 in second leg won 5-4
2 vs Juve in semi 1 in each leg lost 3-2 on aggregate
2016
2 vs Roma round of 16. 1 in each leg. won 4-0 on aggregate
3 vs Wolfsburg quarter second leg won 3-0
2017
5 vs Bayern quarter final won 6-3 on agg
3 vs Athletico semi first leg
2 vs Juve final won 4-1
2018
3 vs PSG in round of 16. won 5-2
@The holy trinity 68
That's a very loose definition of vital goals and there's some missing for both but that's not my point. If you want to argue who out of the 2 has been better in the Champions League, we'll argue that.
My point is that if you have a poll here asking which one has done better in the Champions League most will answer Ronaldo as you can see here - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/greatest-european-cup-champions-league-player-s-of-all-time.436607/
If you make a poll asking which one has done better for their country, I'm guessing it will be pretty divided.
And if you make a poll asking which one is better, Messi wins by a big margin.
So... how can that be possible? Maybe it's just different people answering but I just don't agree with the way people think about it and how they argue about it. They're following the logic of 'Messi scores about the same but he creates more therefore he's better' forgetting goals, games and competitions aren't all worth the same.
That's a very loose definition of vital goals and there's some missing for both but that's not my point. If you want to argue who out of the 2 has been better in the Champions League, we'll argue that.
My point is that if you have a poll here asking which one has done better in the Champions League most will answer Ronaldo as you can see here - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/greatest-european-cup-champions-league-player-s-of-all-time.436607/
If you make a poll asking which one has done better for their country, I'm guessing it will be pretty divided.
And if you make a poll asking which one is better, Messi wins by a big margin.
So... how can that be possible? Maybe it's just different people answering but I just don't agree with the way people think about it and how they argue about it. They're following the logic of 'Messi scores about the same but he creates more therefore he's better' forgetting goals, games and competitions aren't all worth the same.
Last edited:
good post. As always goals don't paint the full picture. take the final against juve for instance. Messi didnt score but was the best player on the park. he made Buffon make a hard save which Suarez finished. Even Mourinho alluded to that. He said winning a champions league is one thing but winning it with Messi is different. He makes the difference. And the last 16 tie against City is as good as i've ever seen Messi play Yet he didnt score. Gary neville said he took him to a place hes never really been in terms of watching a performance so great.
Was just showing that Ronaldo hasn’t dominated the CL more than Messi as you stated. They are quite equal, but as the guy below stated, it isn’t always about goals and assists, and Messi has been much better if goals and assists are taken away.
Exactly, i totally agree.
It’s not arguable who has been better in the champions league.
Don’t know what your point is.
Don’t know what your point is.
Of course it is. Look at the stats I posted above. People seem to have short memories and are only looking at the last 2/3 years when making their mind up. Ronaldo had a great last couple CL years, but Messi has better CL campaigns a few years before.
Ronaldo has been the best player in champions league history. I already watched both their careers I know what they both achieved but Ronaldo has clearly pasted him a couple seasons ago.
Did you bother to read the stats and facts that I posted?
Messi reached 100 CL goals in 20 odd games less than Ronaldo. Messi has won 3 CL and Ronaldo 4. Their is barely much difference between them both.
Off topic of Messi vs Ronaldo. But Gento won 6 European Cups, Di Stefano, Maldini and Costacurta 5. Ronaldo scored more goals, doesn't make him the best player in CL history, just because we weren't alive to see past European greats. It seems that people like to argue that players alive in their generation were the best. In 20 years time it will be the same for the players in that time. With argument that "Football is far Superior to when Ronaldo and Messi were playing".
Little correction: They both have won 4.
The statisticians are out in force again I see.
Because they are not.
A couple seasons ago Messi was winning Barcelona their second treble in the space of six years, whilst producing some of the most mesmeric football ever seen in European Cup history.
Ronaldo's stats are undoubtedly mind blowing in the competition over the last few seasons, but I can't think of a single defining moment he's had like Messi did in 2009, 2011 or 2015. Reducing Boeting to a meme, slaloming through the Real Madrid team to score a wonder goal, making a mockery of one of the best defences in Premiership history in a Champions League final, nutmegging half the Man City side in the space of 45 mins. Hell, against us in 2006 he made our near impregnable defence look a bit average at times, and he was just 18 years old! Was unlucky not to chip Cech from about 20 yards out.
What Ronaldo has achieved over the last three years along with his outright consistency since 2008 puts him firmly in the top 10 footballers of all time, that's as high a praise as you can give him and puts him in great company with the best to play the game, but I don't think any sane person can seriously say he's a better footballer than either Messi or Maradona. Those two have/had many games where they didn't score or provide any assists, yet still came away with the Man of the Match award. That's an extremely rare gift.
If he was clearly better, we either wouldn't have this conversation at all, or if we actually did this poll would have quite different results. Obviously there are quite a few people who don't share your opinion...
@Peyroteo
I am a bit late with my answer, sorry for that. I don't really browse the internet outside my desktop computer, and I've had difficulty finding time the last couple of days.
I honestly feel you're fighting an uphill battle here, your arguments make sense to an extent IMO, you're just forgetting that football in the end is a pretty visceral sport that strikes an emotive chord with a majority of the people. That's why I've implied that all these Ballon d'Or numbers won't make that much of a difference (if any at all) in the end.
If i understood your argument well (feel free to correct me obviously) you feel that on the ball skills are just a part of a footballer's arsenal, and that they should not be the be all end all, but that they have to be balanced with physical and mental skills (at which Ronaldo mostly excells). Thing is, you just need to take a quick glance at the aforementioned award and you'll realize that, historically at least, those skills were exceptionally valued indeed (obviously much higher than all the others, and it remains to this day, rightly or wrongly).
I personally have zero problem with Ronaldo, it was his decision to reinvent himself as a primarily off the ball inside forward who scores a boatload of goals, and in terms of trophies and individual awards it has obviously worked. On the other hand, I guess there is a reason why 99% of the people would consider Maradona a better player than Iniesta...Using your achievements based, trophies won, longevity logic you'd probably end up at 50-50 in that particular situation.
Sorry in advance if i sounded confrontational anywhere here, that was the furthest thing from my mind.
Didn't sound confrontational at all and don't worry that I wouldn't take offense either way
My argument is this pretty much, if Ronaldo's generally considered the better CL player of the two and they're pretty equal in terms of performances for their countries why does Messi get considered to be better overall? My point with the legacy comments is that the biggest competitions in this sport are small competitions (CL/WC/Euros) which means how often a player scores, how often they dribble through defenses, etc. doesn't matter as much as to when they do it.
In the present people judge how consistently well they play while on the future they'll judge their legacy. Even if most people today think Messi is above Ronaldo I think with time that will change as it always does in these types of situations. This is if they finished their careers today, if Messi goes on to dominate the WC and the CL for years to come then I'll be the one changing.
Didn't sound confrontational at all and don't worry that I wouldn't take offense either way
My argument is this pretty much, if Ronaldo's generally considered the better CL player of the two and they're pretty equal in terms of performances for their countries why does Messi get considered to be better overall? My point with the legacy comments is that the biggest competitions in this sport are small competitions (CL/WC/Euros) which means how often a player scores, how often they dribble through defenses, etc. doesn't matter as much as to when they do it.
In the present people judge how consistently well they play while on the future they'll judge their legacy. Even if most people today think Messi is above Ronaldo I think with time that will change as it always does in these types of situations. This is if they finished their careers today, if Messi goes on to dominate the WC and the CL for years to come then I'll be the one changing.
I don't think the majority of people will put Ronaldo above Messi if their careers finished today honestly.
Ronaldo may not have played the full Euro final, but it's also a fact he didn't lose multiple finals for his team, which Messi did.
I didn’t include the 2006 win because he didn’t feature in the quarters, semi’s or final.
But Ronaldo didn’t even reach multiple finals, and they only got to the final because of the best 3rd placed group team. They drew all 3 group games against poor national teams in Iceland, Austria, Hungary. Ron didn’t exactly inspire them in the group.
They then beat Croatia 1-0 after extra time, beat Poland on Penalties, then only had to beat Wales in the Semi’s.
Ronaldo scored 2 in the group stage. Quaresma scored the winner against Croatia, Sanches scored the goal against Poland. Ronaldo scored the 2nd vs Wales so they still would have won without his goal.
So 2 goals in a group game and 1 goal in the Semi’s, whilst playing mediocre teams en route to the final. Not exactly inspiring Portugal to win the tournament is it. Actually quite laughable to say that he has won a trophy for his country and Messi hasn’t. When Ronaldo was average.
not always, sometimes
people arguing in favor of Messi, are more interested in degrading Cristiano rather than presenting Messi in a better manner.
But Ronaldo is hated so he's actually winning 60/40. Or something.The poll is going well
agree.
Today they wouldn't, 30 years from now I think they'll be remembered as equals for the reasons I stated above.
maybe because Cristiano actually has not been better than Messi in CL by convincable margin, hence people don't give him nod when comparing them as a whole?
Plus I don't think Cristiano has been any better than Messi in NT, whether it is luck or destiny, a crap player like Eder scored a blinder in final, while a world class Higuian was missing sitters.
that is the only difference.
Like I've already said, you can agree or disagree if they've been better in the Champions League and NT. I'm talking about the way people generally view this debate, not me personally.
If you ask people who the better CL player is Ronaldo will win. If you ask who's been better for their country, the results will be pretty divided. If you ask who's the better player, people will say Messi... It makes no sense. There are a lot of people who think Ronaldo's done better than Messi in the CL and for his country that would still rate Messi the better player of the two... how can that be possible?
Last edited:
not really, you are missing a huge point. Football fans are more attracted by aesthetics, and after 30years when people will watch youtube highlights, they will be more pleased and bewildered by Messi.
why are Best\Cruyff remembered as a better player and gets more attention from new generation than Charlton, despite Charlton\Muller winning WC, Ballon Dor, scoring more and assisting more?
answer is simple, Best's and Cruyff's style of play is more pleasing to eye, more wow evoking, and I am completely ignoring the fact that Best and Cruyff were better players, since CR7 advocates only count goals, assists and number of trophies won.
Apart from aesthetics, when they will check stats of Messi and CR7, they will not find much difference in goals or assists.
so it will always be difficult for Cristiano to get nod over Messi, today, tommorow or 100years later, whether fair or not.
The problem with that is young Ronaldo on a YouTube video can be made to look just as pleasing on the eye as Messi.
Add in the fact that those people wouldn't have seen them play live and you get the idea that both young skillful Ronaldo and outrageous goal numbers Ronaldo will be mashed into one player as if he did both simultaneously.
- Status