I think Ronaldo will be remembered as the better player in 50 years. I’ll never say it myself, because I’ve seen both live over a dozen times each (Ronaldo significantly more) and I feel that no one could ever give me as much joy watching a game of football as Messi does. When he does something incredible the whole stadium smiles, laughs and it’s as if they can’t believe someone could do what he just did. When Ronaldo does it, it’s just not the same “edge of the seat” feeling. He did that at Man Utd, but at Madrid he’s just not as exciting a player to watch.
When people born in the 2020s start looking back, they’ll see a player who did it at two massive clubs, won an international tournament as a captain, and broke most records that he could feasibly break. A lot of them will likely remain his forever, similar to Wayne Gretzky in hockey. On paper, once they retire, he’ll look the better player and that’ll count for a lot in the future when they have the GOAT debate.
Probably mentioned before, but to me the more fascinating point is that I believe the Messi-Ronaldo duel has elevated both to a level and consistency I can hardly foresee had they ruled the pond alone. They possibly can thank each others that in both level and fame they’ve surpassed anyone
Ronaldo head and shoulders above Messi
Why ?
He has proven himself in the toughest league in the world with United,by a country mile the best ever player to play in the Prem, slagged off by everyone early doors as a show pony he tore the league apart.
He carried a second rate Portugal team on his shoulders to Euro glory.
Top champions league scorer of all time this guy doesn't just score in the easy group games he does it in the toughest games against the very best opposition, he seems to get written off every season and yet still continues to deliver.
Messi a great player but has only done it in Spain which in nowhere near as physical as the prem.Nowhere near the influence on the Argentina team that Ronny is on Portugal, a truly magnificent player but I'm staggered that anyone could think he is as good as Ronaldo
He was incredible in 07-08 but he only scored 20 league goals once in 6 seasons at United. His performances in the big matches also wasn't the best during his time here. At his best, I think he was better than any other player to have played in the league but I'd expect Messi would achieve more if he played on a top PL team for 3 seasons in his prime.
His international performances are not better than Messi's either imo
My comment was just explaining the difference between their career numbers, Messi's scored 595 goals in 742 games (0.8 goals per game). Ronaldo's scored 633 goals in 893 games (0.71 goals per game). But that difference is down to the way their games are distributed throughout their career rather than Messi being the better goalscorer of the two.
the original post you quoted was disputing that Cristiano is by no way the greatest goal machine of all time, and that stats show other wise.
Cristiano being the greatest goal scorer without actual facts to back it up is meh.
I think Ronaldo will be remembered as the better player in 50 years. I’ll never say it myself, because I’ve seen both live over a dozen times each (Ronaldo significantly more) and I feel that no one could ever give me as much joy watching a game of football as Messi does. When he does something incredible the whole stadium smiles, laughs and it’s as if they can’t believe someone could do what he just did. When Ronaldo does it, it’s just not the same “edge of the seat” feeling. He did that at Man Utd, but at Madrid he’s just not as exciting a player to watch.
When people born in the 2020s start looking back, they’ll see a player who did it at two massive clubs, won an international tournament as a captain, and broke most records that he could feasibly break. A lot of them will likely remain his forever, similar to Wayne Gretzky in hockey. On paper, once they retire, he’ll look the better player and that’ll count for a lot in the future when they have the GOAT debate.
That's why I have been always saying this - if looking everything objectively (people born in 2020 etc), you really can't place Ronaldo anywhere lower than Messi, they are at the very least equal, with Ronaldo having a slight edge over Messi. But when subjective mind comes to play (for those who have watched them play, most people would value the beauty of the game more - dribbling, playmaking, passing etc), Messi will always be rated higher.
History will remember Ronaldo as the greater player, but people living in this era will rate Messi higher.
That's why I have been always saying this - if looking everything objectively (people born in 2020 etc), you really can't place Ronaldo anywhere lower than Messi, they are at the very least equal, with Ronaldo having a slight edge over Messi. But when subjective mind comes to play (for those who have watched them play, most people would value the beauty of the game more - dribbling, playmaking, passing etc), Messi will always be rated higher.
History will remember Ronaldo as the greater player, but people living in this era will rate Messi higher.
History will not remember Ronaldo as the greater player. It’ll be similar to how Kobe Bryant has actually gone down a little bit on an all time list as efficiency and advanced stats become more and more prominent. There was a time when Pele was seen as an inarguably GOAT, but things change in modern times as we have more and more ways to measure how effective an athlete is. It’s the same reason why I’d argue if Ronaldo was doing what he was doing before social media and message boards there would be less comments about Penaldo and tap ins and penalties and people would simply look at his goal scoring and be amazed. But in today’s era with more and more people watching the greatest amount of football coverage we’ve ever had (every CL game is on Tv just about everywhere) I think Messi will be seen in an even greater light as that fantastic article “Messi is impossible” discusses. I am too new of a member to be able to post links but if you google that article it really breaks just how incredible Messi is and why we may not see another player like that for a long long time.
Ronaldo having the worst finishing rate in Europe at the beginning of the season wouldn’t have even been mentioned as often in the 80’s but with so many stats being tracked and social media making even a single missed penalty go viral and making player mistakes look worse than they actually are I think players weakenesses also get magnified more than ever.
the original post you quoted was disputing that Cristiano is by no way the greatest goal machine of all time, and that stats show other wise.
Cristiano being the greatest goal scorer without actual facts to back it up is meh.
I wasn't saying he was the greatest goalscorer of all time, I was only saying that those stats didn't prove that he wasn't.
As for the discussion above there's no way Ronaldo will be remembered by a large majority as clearly the greatest of the 2. Unless either of them do something special at the World Cup I think they'll go down as equals with plenty of people prefering one instead of the other, similarly to Maradona and Pelé. Ronaldo's legacy will definitely improve as the years go by when people are more unbiased about it and can look back at what he's accomplished.
Ronaldo having the worst finishing rate in Europe at the beginning of the season wouldn’t have even been mentioned as often in the 80’s but with so many stats being tracked and social media making even a single missed penalty go viral and making player mistakes look worse than they actually are I think players weakenesses also get magnified more than ever.
The only reason that stat was used is because it was Ronaldo, simple as that. It's as crap as stats get and it wasn't even true either, it was the conversion rate just in La Liga from players with X amount of goals and he had about 10 games in the competition... I bet noone will speak of conversion rate ever again, rightly so.
He's surely gonna win the Balon D'Or this year and overtake Ronaldo on that front. It's hard to see Ronaldo winning another one, of they finish their careers 6-4 it'll count for something.
Plus I think it will always be common knowledge that the general consensus among people who saw both play was that Messi was better.
I don't see it that way, the biggest problem players like Di Stefano or Pelé had in their claim for goat was that people thought they were playing in minor leagues, against poor opposition and there wasn't a lot of footage from them beyond big matches,
In 20 years Europe will still be considered the best football continent, both players faced eachother at club level, stats will be there to remember but also hours of footage to judge both players and Messi will have an edge in the eye test imo.
End of the day, it will be similar to the Pelé vs Maradona debate in the 90's, it wasn't much about their football skills or merits and more about their persona, if you were a rebel, liked Rock and Roll and a fan of controversial figures you would choose Maradona without even watching him more than 30 minutes, Pelé was the hipster/pedantic choice, more classic and "boring". Ronaldo vs Messi will just separate the flashy people from the introverted ones, most of the time it won't be a proper football debate.
Doesn't make sense. What does complete player even mean. The great poachers tend to be very complete strikers
Also, if we're going to talk about great winning mentality, the guy who dropped 37 points in a finals game while running a 39° fever and spending timeouts literally trying not to faint has my vote
He's surely gonna win the Balon D'Or this year and overtake Ronaldo on that front. It's hard to see Ronaldo winning another one, of they finish their careers 6-4 it'll count for something.
Plus I think it will always be common knowledge that the general consensus among people who saw both play was that Messi was better.
The reaction is different because if you are an attacking player and you are able to create chances game after game for your team mates you are a better player than if you don't, no matter if they score on these chances or not.
For example If I score a hattrick while also creating three 1-on-1's for my team mates in a game that finishes 3-2 I will have done better than if I had "just" scored a hattrick. Yes the result would be the same in both cases but the fact that my team mates didn't score any goals on those 1-on-1's doesn't mean that my personal performance was the same in both cases.
A guy who sets up 100 chances and get 20 assists is doing better on a personal level than someone who creates 20 chances and gets 20 assists. (and no, before anyone attacks me, that example is not a Messi vs Ronaldo comparison)
Since he's been in Madrid Ronaldo has been scoring at a slightly better rate in a worse team and in the Champions League that gap is not so slight. I don't think it's wrong at all to say Ronaldo's the better goalscorer of the two. Not much of a difference either way though.
Yes Ronaldo played for the poor Levantes and Eibars. I mean come on, Real madrid may not have been better than Barcelona overall since Cris moved there, but they are still the better team almost against all teams in the world when they are not playing Barcelona. Cristiano has the most shots every season, because his team-mates work able to create chances for him, yes his off the ball movement is equally important, but still he needs players who can play accurate passes to him.
And no, Ronaldo cannot be a better goal scorer than Messi, when Messi has almost as much goals than him, and has better conversion rate than Cristiano(yes Cristiano needs 6.5 shots for a goal, while Messi has something around 5 shots.
Sorry but that worse team comment is really FCBarcaish post.
Yes Ronaldo played for the poor Levantes and Eibars. I mean come on, Real madrid may not have been better than Barcelona overall since Cris moved there, but they are still the better team almost against all teams in the world when they are not playing Barcelona. Cristiano has the most shots every season, because his team-mates work able to create chances for him, yes his off the ball movement is equally important, but still he needs players who can play accurate passes to him.
And no, Ronaldo cannot be a better goal scorer than Messi, when Messi has almost as much goals than him, and has better conversion rate than Cristiano(yes Cristiano needs 6.5 shots for a goal, while Messi has something around 5 shots.
Sorry but that worse team comment is really FCBarcaish post.
Using shots per goal as a significant stat in football is misleading for obvious reasons, this isn't the NBA. Claiming a player is a better goalscorer than other because he takes 1.5 less shots per game doesn't make any sense, especially when their shot selection is very different.
Doesn't make sense. What does complete player even mean. The great poachers tend to be very complete strikers
Also, if we're going to talk about great winning mentality, the guy who dropped 37 points in a finals game while running a 39° fever and spending timeouts literally trying not to faint has my vote
A complete player means dominating in all aspects. Getting on the end of stuff means you were very reliant on your team mates. Orchestrating, making defenders shit themselves, controlling the game, creating and scoring make you complete. Poachers aren't complete because they master one aspect. I'm not saying Ronaldo has mastered one aspect of course. He has done so with many. But being dominant on a football pitch entails more and of late he's reduced the aspects he influences in.
Either way if we're talking about proper big game performances, Ronaldo is definitely not the kind of sportsman who comes to mind. He's had a good streak in last year's CL in that respect and generally has improved in his goalscoring in bigger games, but many others spring to mind in great big game/big moment dominant sportsman.
He's certainly had his fair share of great performances and goals in big games for Portugal. Most of his greatest performances and goals ever are in a Portugal shirt. Bosnia in the playoffs, Sweden in the playoffs, Netherlands and Czech Republic in Euro 2012, Hungary in Euro 2016, Wales and Netherlands semifinals... plus countless big moments in qualification. Trade him for any other player in history and I don't believe we'd have done better than we did since he's been around.
He was scoring and assisting in the semis to take us to our first ever final back in 2004, 12 years later he did the same to take us to our second ever final. Big penalties in both England games and he was man of the match in the WC semis back in 2006 too, we weren't worse than France in that game either. He was injured for the last 2 World Cups but that's not a good enough excuse and they're still the only stain in his career. He'll have a last chance to make up for it in Russia this summer.
Fair share of great performances is natural because he's a great player. All top players end up having that sort of record. But in the world cups, he's generally been a bit of a dud. It is the definitive international tournament. In the Euros, no way did he "take you" to the final. He was one of the decent performers in a decent team that won a terrible tournament and he didnt even play the most decisive game. In the early Euros (2004) he played well for a kid. You'd think he was this insane international level genius going by posts here which is far from the truth. His international career seems elevated more by the team's achievement than his own actual performances.
I think we have argued about this before. If you don't think Ronaldo was a factor in Portugal winning the euros then we disagree and nothing to say about it. Given I believe he was a factor, one of the key reasons in fact, I am going to stand by what I said.
He was alright. A few poor games and a few good ones. No chance anyone would look at that Ronaldo and say he was truly special because he didnt have a special tournament and not even a very good one.
Feel free to stand by your view as I will mine. Ronaldo was okay/good-ish in that tournament. It was more a team effort/plucky win/low standard tournament than anything.
For me it is Messi. Ronaldo was a fabulous athlete which made him a better football player and has rightly won Le Balon d’Or several times but Messi was simply a brilliant, brilliant footballer.
Fair share of great performances is natural because he's a great player. All top players end up having that sort of record. But in the world cups, he's generally been a bit of a dud. It is the definitive international tournament. In the Euros, no way did he "take you" to the final. He was one of the decent performers in a decent team that won a terrible tournament and he didnt even play the most decisive game. In the early Euros (2004) he played well for a kid. You'd think he was this insane international level genius going by posts here which is far from the truth. His international career seems elevated more by the team's achievement than his own actual performances.
That's because his performances are the main reason for the team's achievements and these have been nothing short of incredible. He's played 2 great Euros and 2 pretty good ones. 1 very good World Cup and 2 disappointing ones, but he played both of those with an injury. Could have still done better and his record in World Cups is definitely not good enough. He's still been a big game player for us nevertheless.
Anyone who's followed this team closely especially during qualifications will tell you the same, if he doesn't show up several times in big moments we could have easily missed the last 2 Euros and the last 2 World Cups.
That's because his performances are the main reason for the team's achievements and these have been nothing short of incredible. He's played 2 great Euros and 2 pretty good ones. 1 very good World Cup and 2 disappointing ones, but he played both of those with an injury. Could have still done better and his record in World Cups is definitely not good enough. He's still been a big game player for us nevertheless.
I understand you're a supporter of the national team but I fnd his performances for the NT very overrated and simply do not commeasure with the hype especially on the caf. Injuries excuse his world cup performances despite them being the real big games in international football. The Euros he wasn't even great in and didn't play the final. Yet his performances which haven't been extraordinary are billed up into some Maradona-esque feats when underneath the surface there is nothing of the sort. His "influence" is inflated far more than his performances actually merit in these cases.
I suppose we have to agree to disagree given the gap in our views here.
it's actually unbelievable that some are even willing to argue that, mostly Ronaldo fans though. If I ask someone to name top 20 players ever or just type 20 best players of all time in google, some or most of those list will feature brazilian Ronaldo for example. none of those lists will have Henry in it, even though he had much better career. natural ability matters, what a shock.
take 20 goals from Messi every season and most of us would still compare him to Maradona. take 20 goals from Ronaldo every season and he would be more comparable to Henry and Ibra.
I understand you're a supporter of the national team but I fnd his performances for the NT very overrated and simply do not commeasure with the hype especially on the caf. Injuries excuse his world cup performances despite them being the real big games in international football. The Euros he wasn't even great in and didn't play the final. Yet his performances which haven't been extraordinary are billed up into some Maradona-esque feats when underneath the surface there is nothing of the sort. His "influence" is inflated far more than his performances actually merit in these cases.
I suppose we have to agree to disagree given the gap in our views here.
Is Real inferior to Barcelona in last 10 years. Yes.
Does that make Cristiano face more difficulties in scoring goals compared to Messi with Barcelona? No.
Using shots per goal as a significant stat in football is misleading for obvious reasons, this isn't the NBA. Claiming a player is a better goalscorer than other because he takes 1.5 less shots per game doesn't make any sense, especially when their shot selection is very different.
They are misleading when you try to use them to mislead. They are not misleading when used in correct correlation.
For example wrong correlation: Higuain is a superior goals scorer to Cristiano in at his best, because he had a shot per goal ratio of 2.84 during his best season in Real Madrid(He scored 25 goals from just 71 shots in 2011/12), while Cristiano's best is 5.10 shots per goal during the 2014/15 season(when he scored 58 goals from 296 shots). That is just plain stupid conclusion because Higuain was never trusted as much as Cristiano during his tenure in Real Madrid, and when he was at Napoli, given full control, he was inferior to Cristiano in terms of goals and while not being as godly in shots per goal as in that 2011/12 season.
So proved that when Higuain was given the same role(the main man of the team) as Cristiano he was not as good.
That is example of using statistics to mislead, using a minor piece to tell the whole picture, while in whole picture, Pipita is not in the same level as Ronnie.
Now the example of a correct correlation: Messi and Cristiano has similar freedom and roles in their respective teams. They can take shots from anywhere they want, they have teammates always trying to find them and so on. Their statistical comparison makes sense, since they are given are both the main goal scorers for the team.
And here below is how they have performed with their respective clubs for Champions League and La Liga(since stats for Copa del rey are not available) since Cristiano moved to Madrid:
In season 2009/2010, Cristiano played 35 appearances and took a total of 243 shots and scored 33 goals at the rate of 7.36 shots per goal.
In season 2010/2011, Cristiano played 46 appearances and took a total of 323 shots and scored 46 goals at the rate of 7.02 shots per goal.
In season 2011/2012, Cristiano played 48 appearances and took a total of 336 shots and scored 56 goals at the rate of 6 shots per goal.
In season 2012/2013, Cristiano played 46 appearances and took a total of 316 shots and scored 47 goals at the rate of 6.72 shots per goal.
In season 2013/2014, Cristiano played 41 appearances and took a total of 289 shots and scored 47 goals at the rate of 6.15 shots per goal.
In season 2014/2015, Cristiano played 47 appearances and took a total of 296 shots and scored 58 goals at the rate of 5.1 shots per goal.
In season 2015/2016, Cristiano played 48 appearances and took a total of 319 shots and scored 51 goals at the rate of 6.25 shots per goal.
In season 2016/2017, Cristiano played 42 appearances and took a total of 231 shots and scored 35 goals at the rate of 6.6 shots per goal.
In season 2017/2018, Cristiano played 25 appearances and took a total of 177 shots and scored 22 goals at the rate of 8.05 shots per goal.
In total Cristiano played 378 appearances and took a total of 2530 shots and scored 395 goals at the rate of 6.41 shots per goal.
In season 2009/2010, Messi played 45 appearances and took a total of 212 shots and scored 42 goals at the rate of 5.05 shots per goal.
In season 2010/2011, Messi played 46 appearances and took a total of 219 shots and scored 43 goals at the rate of 5.09 shots per goal.
In season 2011/2012, Messi played 48 appearances and took a total of 278 shots and scored 64 goals at the rate of 4.34 shots per goal.
In season 2012/2013, Messi played 43 appearances and took a total of 204 shots and scored 54 goals at the rate of 3.78 shots per goal.
In season 2013/2014, Messi played 38 appearances and took a total of 188 shots and scored 35 goals at the rate of 5.37 shots per goal.
In season 2014/2015, Messi played 51 appearances and took a total of 243 shots and scored 53 goals at the rate of 4.58 shots per goal.
In season 2015/2016, Messi played 40 appearances and took a total of 197 shots and scored 32 goals at the rate of 6.16 shots per goal.
In season 2016/2017, Messi played 43 appearances and took a total of 217 shots and scored 48 goals at the rate of 4.52 shots per goal.
In season 2017/2018, Messi played 29 appearances and took a total of 160 shots and scored 23 goals at the rate of 6.96 shots per goal.
In total, Messi played 383 appearances and took a total of 1918 shots and scored 394 goals at the rate of 4.81 shots per goal.
The above stats, just shows that there is not much to be said to come to the conclusion that Cristiano is a greater goal scorer than Messi.
it's actually unbelievable that some are even willing to argue that, mostly Ronaldo fans though. If I ask someone to name top 20 players ever or just type 20 best players of all time in google, some or most of those list will feature brazilian Ronaldo for example. none of those lists will have Henry in it, even though he had much better career. natural ability matters, what a shock.
take 20 goals from Messi every season and most of us would still compare him to Maradona. take 20 goals from Ronaldo every season and he would be more comparable to Henry and Ibra.
Natural ability doesn't matter, how good of a football player someone is matters. Obviously natural ability will play a huge part in that, but it's not everything and it should never be the only atribute players get judged on.
As for the goals, it depends what goals you took away. Take 100 La Liga goals away from Messi and have him score this one and he'd be rated higher than he is.
They are misleading when you try to use them to mislead. They are not misleading when used in correct correlation.
For example wrong correlation: Higuain is a superior goals scorer to Cristiano in at his best, because he had a shot per goal ratio of 2.84 during his best season in Real Madrid(He scored 25 goals from just 71 shots in 2011/12), while Cristiano's best is 5.10 shots per goal during the 2014/15 season(when he scored 58 goals from 296 shots). That is just plain stupid conclusion because Higuain was never trusted as much as Cristiano during his tenure in Real Madrid, and when he was at Napoli, given full control, he was inferior to Cristiano in terms of goals and while not being as godly in shots per goal as in that 2011/12 season.
The above stats, just shows that there is not much to be said to come to the conclusion that Cristiano is a greater goal scorer than Messi.
No, it shows absolutely nothing since it's a pretty much irrelevant stat which can be easily put on the different kind of shots they take. According to those stats Ronaldo has scored 22 goals in 116 shots this season... what about the 3 goals Madrid have scored on the rebound after a Ronaldo shot? What about the amount of corners, free kicks or chances they had because of it?
Having a player that shoots at goal from any position helps in opening defenses, you can only score goals if you shoot the ball and possession isn't so valuable in football than if the ball goes out for a goalkick it's a disaster. Like I said, this isn't the NBA. Ronaldo has more shots because he shoots from worse positions, not because his team creates more for him. He's a volume shooter, similarly to Kane who has been the best goalscorer in the world this season but he's nowhere near having the best shots per goal ratio.
Is Real inferior to Barcelona in last 10 years. Yes.
Does that make Cristiano face more difficulties in scoring goals compared to Messi with Barcelona? No.
Is Real inferior to Barcelona in last 10 years. Yes.
Does that make Cristiano face more difficulties in scoring goals compared to Messi with Barcelona? No.
They are misleading when you try to use them to mislead. They are not misleading when used in correct correlation.
For example wrong correlation: Higuain is a superior goals scorer to Cristiano in at his best, because he had a shot per goal ratio of 2.84 during his best season in Real Madrid(He scored 25 goals from just 71 shots in 2011/12), while Cristiano's best is 5.10 shots per goal during the 2014/15 season(when he scored 58 goals from 296 shots). That is just plain stupid conclusion because Higuain was never trusted as much as Cristiano during his tenure in Real Madrid, and when he was at Napoli, given full control, he was inferior to Cristiano in terms of goals and while not being as godly in shots per goal as in that 2011/12 season.
So proved that when Higuain was given the same role(the main man of the team) as Cristiano he was not as good.
That is example of using statistics to mislead, using a minor piece to tell the whole picture, while in whole picture, Pipita is not in the same level as Ronnie.
Now the example of a correct correlation: Messi and Cristiano has similar freedom and roles in their respective teams. They can take shots from anywhere they want, they have teammates always trying to find them and so on. Their statistical comparison makes sense, since they are given are both the main goal scorers for the team.
And here below is how they have performed with their respective clubs for Champions League and La Liga(since stats for Copa del rey are not available) since Cristiano moved to Madrid:
In season 2009/2010, Cristiano played 35 appearances and took a total of 243 shots and scored 33 goals at the rate of 7.36 shots per goal.
In season 2010/2011, Cristiano played 46 appearances and took a total of 323 shots and scored 46 goals at the rate of 7.02 shots per goal.
In season 2011/2012, Cristiano played 48 appearances and took a total of 336 shots and scored 56 goals at the rate of 6 shots per goal.
In season 2012/2013, Cristiano played 46 appearances and took a total of 316 shots and scored 47 goals at the rate of 6.72 shots per goal.
In season 2013/2014, Cristiano played 41 appearances and took a total of 289 shots and scored 47 goals at the rate of 6.15 shots per goal.
In season 2014/2015, Cristiano played 47 appearances and took a total of 296 shots and scored 58 goals at the rate of 5.1 shots per goal.
In season 2015/2016, Cristiano played 48 appearances and took a total of 319 shots and scored 51 goals at the rate of 6.25 shots per goal.
In season 2016/2017, Cristiano played 42 appearances and took a total of 231 shots and scored 35 goals at the rate of 6.6 shots per goal.
In season 2017/2018, Cristiano played 25 appearances and took a total of 177 shots and scored 22 goals at the rate of 8.05 shots per goal.
In total Cristiano played 378 appearances and took a total of 2530 shots and scored 395 goals at the rate of 6.41 shots per goal.
In season 2009/2010, Messi played 45 appearances and took a total of 212 shots and scored 42 goals at the rate of 5.05 shots per goal.
In season 2010/2011, Messi played 46 appearances and took a total of 219 shots and scored 43 goals at the rate of 5.09 shots per goal.
In season 2011/2012, Messi played 48 appearances and took a total of 278 shots and scored 64 goals at the rate of 4.34 shots per goal.
In season 2012/2013, Messi played 43 appearances and took a total of 204 shots and scored 54 goals at the rate of 3.78 shots per goal.
In season 2013/2014, Messi played 38 appearances and took a total of 188 shots and scored 35 goals at the rate of 5.37 shots per goal.
In season 2014/2015, Messi played 51 appearances and took a total of 243 shots and scored 53 goals at the rate of 4.58 shots per goal.
In season 2015/2016, Messi played 40 appearances and took a total of 197 shots and scored 32 goals at the rate of 6.16 shots per goal.
In season 2016/2017, Messi played 43 appearances and took a total of 217 shots and scored 48 goals at the rate of 4.52 shots per goal.
In season 2017/2018, Messi played 29 appearances and took a total of 160 shots and scored 23 goals at the rate of 6.96 shots per goal.
In total, Messi played 383 appearances and took a total of 1918 shots and scored 394 goals at the rate of 4.81 shots per goal.
The above stats, just shows that there is not much to be said to come to the conclusion that Cristiano is a greater goal scorer than Messi.
Problem is, one key factor which is completely hidden in this kind of stats (shots per goals), is that some players may have the ability in making better runs and getting more goalscoring position, or even attempting on half chances/shooting from impossible angles throughout the match on more frequent basis than others. Hence such stats is completely irrelevant and meaningless. At the end of the day, only no. of goals scored is relevant.
Technically we scored more goals than barcelona in most of the seasons. Whether that meant we had a better attack, or found it easier to score, i can only give my opinion, which would be: sometimes, and it depends a lot on the opposition
Technically we scored more goals than barcelona in most of the seasons. Whether that meant we had a better attack, or found it easier to score, i can only give my opinion, which would be: sometimes, and it depends a lot on the opposition
Since Ronaldo has been in Madrid, Barcelona have scored 6 more goals than Madrid in the league with 1 more game played. It's been pretty much the same.
As for the goals, it depends what goals you took away. Take 100 La Liga goals away from Messi and have him score this one and he'd be rated higher than he is.
If Messi sat out the game due to injury and Argentina somehow manged to win it, a big chunk of people (I wouldn't ofc) would rate him higher than they do now.
No, it shows absolutely nothing since it's a pretty much irrelevant stat which can be easily put on the different kind of shots they take. According to those stats Ronaldo has scored 22 goals in 116 shots this season... what about the 3 goals Madrid have scored on the rebound after a Ronaldo shot? What about the amount of corners, free kicks or chances they had because of it?
We are strictly talking about goal scoring, why are you bring other factors? if we are going to use the same, let us also bring the chances created by Messi through the same things. Which will even more complicates things for Cristiano.
Sorry but when we are talking strictly about goals, we talk about only it.
Having a player that shoots at goal from any position helps in opening defenses, you can only score goals if you shoot the ball and possession isn't so valuable in football than if the ball goes out for a goal kick it's a disaster. Like I said, this isn't the NBA. Ronaldo has more shots because he shoots from worse positions, not because his team creates more for him. He's a volume shooter, similarly to Kane who has been the best goalscorer in the world this season but he's nowhere near having the best shots per goal ratio.
Cristiano has 1429 shots(1288+141) shots from inside the area in which he scored 339 goals(3.79 ratio), which obviously means he is being assisted by his teammates as much as Messi(who has 1216 shots from the same region and scored 340 goals with ratio of 3.19), even if we discount how many times Messi dribbles his way to the box, without being assisted by his teammates. Let us take it as Messi takes all shots from inside area assisted by teammates. So here also there is not much difference between either.
See I am have not once said Messi is better than Cristiano in goal scoring, my point is simple just as good as Cristiano. So don't take it as me trying to make Messi look better in goal scoring.
because the difference between Real Madrid and Barcelona is negligible when it comes to their strength vs rest of the teams.
Real vs Barcelona head to head is a different thing, but Real Madrid vs others, is same as Barca vs others.
We are strictly talking about goal scoring, why are you bring other factors? if we are going to use the same, let us also bring the chances created by Messi through the same things. Which will even more complicates things for Cristiano.
Sorry but when we are talking strictly about goals, we talk about only it.
Cristiano has 1429 shots(1288+141) shots from inside the area in which he scored 339 goals(3.79 ratio), which obviously means he is being assisted by his teammates as much as Messi(who has 1216 shots from the same region and scored 340 goals with ratio of 3.19), even if we discount how many times Messi dribbles his way to the box, without being assisted by his teammates. Let us take it as Messi takes all shots from inside area assisted by teammates. So here also there is not much difference between either.
See I am have not once said Messi is better than Cristiano in goal scoring, my point is simple just as good as Cristiano. So don't take it as me trying to make Messi look better in goal scoring.
because the difference between Real Madrid and Barcelona is negligible when it comes to their strength vs rest of the teams.
Real vs Barcelona head to head is a different thing, but Real Madrid vs others, is same as Barca vs others.
But you're the one who's doing the exact opposite of that? You're the one bringing the amount of shots they take into consideration and obviously shots don't only result in goals. Ronaldo's quality of chances inside the box when he takes a shot isn't the same as Messi's obviously since Ronaldo takes lower percentage shots, making the shots per goal stat completely useless. Comparing their expected goals to their actual goals would be a much better way to compare their finishing although it still wouldn't say a lot about who the better goalscorer was.
Problem is, one key factor which is completely hidden in this kind of stats (shots per goals), is that some players may have the ability in making better runs and getting more goal scoring position, or even attempting on half chances/shooting from impossible angles throughout the match on more frequent basis than others. Hence such stats is completely irrelevant and meaningless. At the end of the day,only no. of goals scored is relevant.
