Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Would it be outlandish to suggest Harry Kane is now better than
Cal? said:
We are just going round in circles now, let's summarize the Messi brigade:

1 Messi scores a bunch in a season without winning anything of note, Messi is better, cos goals...
2 Messi scores fewer in a seasons and wins the biggest trophies, Messi is better, cos trophies...
3 They score a similar number whilst Ronaldo won the big pots, Messi is better cos dribbling is all that matters...
4 Messi leading 4-1 on Ballon D'ors, Messi is clearly better, the football world agrees...
5 They are tied on 5-5, Messi is better, the football world is clueless...
6 Messi wins a final, Messi is better, cos big match...
7 Messi bottles a final/SF/QF, Messi is better, cos "somehow it's better to lose in the QF/SF than to make it to the final and not play well (despite winning)"...

Is that it?
Click to expand...


I really don't think anyone is saying any of that. Messi is just better because he's just better nothing to do with what either wins and it never should be in an individual award

People think Messi is better because they see him as a better performer by some distance. There's no change in the voting system for "Messi fans" he's just better

Out of interest forgetting GOAT...... you'd accept Messi is the better footballer today surely? That he's the best footballer on the planet today? I don't even think Ronaldo is in the top 3 today. There's plenty performing at a higher level than he is now. Am I wrong?
 
Vialli_92 said:
Simple fact is if you break down what each player is good at and how well they do it Messi will come out on top in everything except heading and penalties

To stop Ronaldo being effective you cut the service to him, without service he has very little contributions to the team in a match

If you cut the service to Messi that's fine he will drop deep and get on the ball making plays happen from midfield

Ronaldo will offer pretty much nothing if his team is getting outplayed and is not receiving service

He played in a RM so dominant last season he did not need to worry about not having any service because they pretty much always won the midfield battle with the quality they had in midfield

Ronaldo has never been better than Messi since Messi established himself as a world class player he doesn't have the ability to get on the ball like Messi and make plays happen so no matter what he tries he simply can not be better than Messi at football since Messi has much more in his locker than Ronaldo does

He has had more successful seasons winning more than Messi has in some seasons but that doesn't make him a better player
Click to expand...

so heading ability we should just eliminate or ignore to suite messi is better opinion of yours ?

and talk about Real Midfield now ..well Messi had best midfield in years to come at Barca during his golden days so that point actually is meaningless. It's not like messi takes the ball from goalkeeper and run all the way to other end beating everyone and rounds off keeper and score goal every single time .. this is Team sport so better the teammates , more efficient you are and greater chances of winning trophies.so as much as Ronaldo need teammates , so does Messi.


Just because he do not make eye pleasing pass to team mate , does not make him any lesser player or messi better player . you should actually see their performance and how they have been influential in winning matches/trophies for their team along with showing individual brilliance here and there . I dont think there is much to choose except the style which you like .
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I would assume both are interlinked. With good chemistry comes good services. What's the point of having great chemistry is it doesn't translate into service?
Click to expand...
If someone has good chemistry with his team he can still receive no service so they are completely different

I see your point you are making but they are still independent of each other
 
Hemant said:
so heading ability we should just eliminate or ignore to suite messi is better opinion of yours ?

and talk about Real Midfield now ..well Messi had best midfield in years to come at Barca during his golden days so that point actually is meaningless. It's not like messi takes the ball from goalkeeper and run all the way to other end beating everyone and rounds off keeper and score goal every single time .. this is Team sport so better the teammates , more efficient you are and greater chances of winning trophies.so as much as Ronaldo need teammates , so does Messi.


Just because he do not make eye pleasing pass to team mate , does not make him any lesser player or messi better player . you should actually see their performance and how they have been influential in winning matches/trophies for their team along with showing individual brilliance here and there . I dont think there is much to choose except the style which you like .
Click to expand...
We are talking about who is a better player

Weight up all their attributes and it's not a close contest

Messi brings much more to his team than Ronaldo does and puts out similar goals to him
 
Gareth williams said:
Would it be outlandish to suggest Harry Kane is now better than



I really don't think anyone is saying any of that. Messi is just better because he's just better nothing to do with what either wins and it never should be in an individual award

People think Messi is better because they see him as a better performer by some distance. There's no change in the voting system for "Messi fans" he's just better

Out of interest forgetting GOAT...... you'd accept Messi is the better footballer today surely? That he's the best footballer on the planet today? I don't even think Ronaldo is in the top 3 today. There's plenty performing at a higher level than he is now. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Today? Yes
This month? Yes
Even this quarter? Yes
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Maybe you can explain why he can't replicate his success with NT?
Click to expand...

I'd call that Argentina side reaching 2 America Cup and 1 WC finals a success. Cristiano Ronaldo wasn't able to replicate his club level in international tournaments with Portugal either, the last Euro just saved his career for having the stain on his resume of not winning an international trophy.

The funny thing is that when people bring Ronaldo Nazario in this thread like a couple pages ago they disregard his claim to fight vs Cristiano due to the lack of club level silverware, everyone seems to forget that "Fat Ronaldo" won a World Cup with 8 goals, scoring every game but one and put 2 on the net of Oliver Kahn in the final, mental how arbitrarily people swing what they ask from players depending if they want to praise or attack them.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Chemistry

At Barcelona he knows exactly what run his team mates will make so can make one two passes with them to open up space and he can run into space. He is able to express himself much easier on the pitch with his club

With the NT I never see him make one two passes with his team mates because they are not on the same wave length as his team mates at Barcelona

It's really a case of his National team mates not being on his level of play so his play suffers due to them not understanding him and knowing where he is going to move and when he will release the ball to them etc etc

I don't watch much of Argentina play but from the little I have seen I would put it down to the chemistry seeing as they don't play to as high of a level as Barcelona would so with the little time he is together with the team he will have to play a different game than he is used to
Click to expand...


Never seemed to stop Maradona, when he played for a poorer national team yet still led them to the World cup

To say Messi hasn't succeeded at national level because his team mates aren't on the same wave length is rubbish to be honest .

It's not like he had never played with them before or watched them play so when he turns up and passes he is shocked to see they run the other way .

A great player would be able to lift players around them and lead by example.I never get the feeling watching Argentina that the players sense they can do anything because they have Messi .

In fact you can argue that Portugal an inferior team has shown that they are lifted by having Ronaldo on their side
 
lsd said:
Never seemed to stop Maradona, when he played for a poorer national team yet still led them to the World cup

To say Messi hasn't succeeded at national level because his team mates aren't on the same wave length is rubbish to be honest .

It's not like he had never played with them before or watched them play so when he turns up and passes he is shocked to see they run the other way .

A great player would be able to lift players around them and lead by example.I never get the feeling watching Argentina that the players sense they can do anything because they have Messi .

In fact you can argue that Portugal an inferior team has shown that they are lifted by having Ronaldo on their side
Click to expand...

Portugal won a Euro final without Ronaldo, he didn’t lift them in the Final, it was a media narrative. That was probably the most undeserved Euro win over the last 20 years with awful negative football but Portugal did what they had to do.

Look at Argentina’s record in games without Messi, he literally carries them on his back.

Portugal without Ronaldo would comfortably beat Argentina without Messi.
 
lsd said:
Never seemed to stop Maradona, when he played for a poorer national team yet still led them to the World cup

To say Messi hasn't succeeded at national level because his team mates aren't on the same wave length is rubbish to be honest .

It's not like he had never played with them before or watched them play so when he turns up and passes he is shocked to see they run the other way .

A great player would be able to lift players around them and lead by example.I never get the feeling watching Argentina that the players sense they can do anything because they have Messi .

In fact you can argue that Portugal an inferior team has shown that they are lifted by having Ronaldo on their side
Click to expand...

No player can win every game, the same way Burruchaga had the moment of his life to score the winning goal, Higuain or Palacio went lights out and had a stinker, that's beyong Messi or Maradona's influence.

Ronaldo lifts Portugal as much as many other players have done for their national team but no one is absolute, he wasn't even on the pitch when Portugal won the final. Saying things like that is like saying Charisteas is better than Messi because he lifted Greece to win the Euro 2004
 
Daysleeper said:
Portugal won a Euro final without Ronaldo, he didn’t lift them in the Final, it was a media narrative. That was probably the most undeserved Euro win over the last 20 years with awful negative football but Portugal did what they had to do.

Look at Argentina’s record in games without Messi, he literally carries them on his back.

Portugal without Ronaldo would comfortably beat Argentina without Messi.
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with negative football if done right. They were unbeaten in the tournament.

Seriously? Argentina should be one of the favorites for the World Cup with or without Messi if they just used the right players.
 
lsd said:
Never seemed to stop Maradona, when he played for a poorer national team yet still led them to the World cup

To say Messi hasn't succeeded at national level because his team mates aren't on the same wave length is rubbish to be honest .

It's not like he had never played with them before or watched them play so when he turns up and passes he is shocked to see they run the other way .

A great player would be able to lift players around them and lead by example.I never get the feeling watching Argentina that the players sense they can do anything because they have Messi .

In fact you can argue that Portugal an inferior team has shown that they are lifted by having Ronaldo on their side
Click to expand...
Ye i guess Ronaldo going off injured in the the final really stopped Portugal from winning the tournament
 
Cal? said:
There's nothing wrong with negative football if done right. They were unbeaten in the tournament.

Seriously? Argentina should be one of the favorites for the World Cup with or without Messi if they just used the right players.
Click to expand...

No, Portugal only qualified because the rules were changed to allow 3 teams from the same group through. They also had the easiest path to the Euro final over the past 35 years. It was some of the most painful/boring football played in the tournament. Which is ironic, considering Ronaldo criticized Iceland for their "small team mentality" which Portugal used to see them through.

And for the record, I also thought Argentina was pretty dire to watch in the 2014 World Cup.
 
Daysleeper said:
No, Portugal only qualified because the rules were changed to allow 3 teams from the same group through. They also had the easiest path to the Euro final over the past 35 years. It was some of the most painful/boring football played in the tournament. Which is ironic, considering Ronaldo criticized Iceland for their "small team mentality" which Portugal used to see them through.

And for the record, I also thought Argentina was pretty dire to watch in the 2014 World Cup.
Click to expand...
The rules were changed years before, so everyone knew it going into the tournament. Portugal did what they had to do to qualify for the 2nd round.
 
I can't believe that people are still using that nonsense 3 teams argument. It wasn't like they changed it for Portugal, every nation knew the rules and therefore changed their play style. Not a good decision for the spectators, but it doesn't lessen Portugal's achievement for one bit.
 
Cal? said:
What has that got to do with my post?

Didn't Messi miss one against Chelsea when they were playing against 10 men?
Click to expand...
You just proved my point

Anyone can miss a penalty and we can go back and forward like this all day proving nothing

Judging a player on a missed penalty means nothing
 
Gareth williams said:
Going forwards? Given he's a little bit younger and in much better form? You'd have to concede probably?
Click to expand...
Who knows? (I'm not religious, otherwise I'd quote Ronaldo)

People basically said the same thing this time last year when he started the seasons slowly after getting injured in the Euro.
 
Has Messi not been a success internationally? He could end his career argentinas greatest ever goalscorer and has already played in 3 finals. He's been comfortably his country's best player for a decade. People talk as if he's been terrible
 
Vialli_92 said:
You just proved my point

Anyone can miss a penalty and we can go back and forward like this all day proving nothing

Judging a player on a missed penalty means nothing
Click to expand...
I'm just saying Ronaldo may have played a small role in the Euro final, Messi played a big role in the Copa final, not in a good way.
 
Cal? said:
I'm just saying Ronaldo may have played a small role in the Euro final, Messi played a big role in the Copa final, not in a good way.
Click to expand...
Goes to show you need luck to win finals especially in such fine margins
 
Only found out today that Messi only scored one more goal than CR7 this year and CR7 has a better goals to game ratio. I know a few Messi fan boys and they were up in arms about the Ballon Dor but seeing the stats seems a bit much.
 
saivet said:
Only found out today that Messi only scored one more goal than CR7 this year and CR7 has a better goals to game ratio. I know a few Messi fan boys and they were up in arms about the Ballon Dor but seeing the stats seems a bit much.
Click to expand...
Harry Kane should win the Balon D'or on that evidence

I didn't know being a better PLAYER was about who scored the most goals these days

Messi was also playing as CM for most of last season and put out similar goals to Ronaldo
 
Vialli_92 said:
Harry Kane should win the Balon D'or on that evidence

I didn't know being a better PLAYER was about who scored the most goals these days

Messi was also playing as CM for most of last season and put out similar goals to Ronaldo
Click to expand...
Ronaldo scored in the big games and was highly influential in his side winning big trophies. I was somewhat neutral on who won the ballon dor between these two, but the more I think about it, I think Ronaldo was more deserving this year.
 
saivet said:
Ronaldo scored in the big games and was highly influential in his side winning big trophies. I was somewhat neutral on who won the ballon dor between these two, but the more I think about it, I think Ronaldo was more deserving this year.
Click to expand...

I had no problems with Ronaldo winning it this year either even though I think Messi is clearly the better player.
 
Vialli_92 said:
Goes to show you need luck to win finals especially in such fine margins
Click to expand...
Of course you need some luck, but it can't always be just bad luck that Messi loses so many finals.

You can argue Germany were favourites, but the same cannot be said of Chile.
Vialli_92 said:
Harry Kane should win the Balon D'or on that evidence

I didn't know being a better PLAYER was about who scored the most goals these days

Messi was also playing as CM for most of last season and put out similar goals to Ronaldo
Click to expand...
Have you watched Barca this season? He has clearly not been playing CM. :rolleyes:
 
Gareth williams said:
Has Messi not been a success internationally? He could end his career argentinas greatest ever goalscorer and has already played in 3 finals. He's been comfortably his country's best player for a decade. People talk as if he's been terrible
Click to expand...
For one of the best players ever, his international career is something of a disappointment.

Ronaldo is very likely to be the all time 2nd topscorer in international football in the next few months. (Top if you exclude Ali Daei who raked up his numbers against some farcical sides in Asia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_goals_scored_by_Ali_Daei
 
People still comparing CR7 and Messi... they´re not even in the same level....It´s like comparing Federer and Nadal.... Federer has far superior technique..
 
Joakin90 said:
People still comparing CR7 and Messi... they´re not even in the same level....It´s like comparing Federer and Nadal.... Federer has far superior technique..
Click to expand...
Nadal has the better head to head record.
 
Cal? said:
Nadal has the better head to head record.
Click to expand...
I know.. but still Federer is the better overall player...
Nadal only has the edge on the mentality...

Federer/Messi : born gifted with talent. A lot of talent...more than anybody... natural and superior (way superior) technique
Nadal/CR7 : Maybe half the talent but compensate with a lot of hardwork..
 
Cal? said:
Of course you need some luck, but it can't always be just bad luck that Messi loses so many finals.

You can argue Germany were favourites, but the same cannot be said of Chile.

Have you watched Barca this season? He has clearly not been playing CM. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Messi has played, won and scored in more finals than Ronaldo.

Maybe if Ronaldo was carrying his national team to 3 consecutive finals in the last 6 years he would lose a couple more. But again, I'm arguing with you, you probably think Messi should've done more in the 2007 Copa America vs Brazil, but Ronaldo gets a free pass losing vs Greece because he was a kid, while they both were basically the same age at those finals.
 
Cal? said:
Of course you need some luck, but it can't always be just bad luck that Messi loses so many finals.

You can argue Germany were favourites, but the same cannot be said of Chile.

Have you watched Barca this season? He has clearly not been playing CM. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
IF YOU CAN READ MY POST IT CLEARLY SAYS "the majority of last season"

you are worse than the media with your selective quotes unbelievable

Cal? said:
Nadal has the better head to head record.
Click to expand...
Federer is still the GOAT, he has the best technique, shot selection and execution of anyone

saivet said:
Ronaldo scored in the big games and was highly influential in his side winning big trophies. I was somewhat neutral on who won the ballon dor between these two, but the more I think about it, I think Ronaldo was more deserving this year.
Click to expand...
With the trophies won and his status in the team I can see why he won it, however Messi is a better overall player and was the better player last season
 
Last edited:
Joakin90 said:
I know.. but still Federer is the better overall player...
Nadal only has the edge on the mentality...

Federer/Messi : born gifted with talent. A lot of talent...more than anybody... natural and superior (way superior) technique
Nadal/CR7 : Maybe half the talent but compensate with a lot of hardwork..
Click to expand...


Oh well i guess mentality doesnt count then
 
Really need to stop reading these threads. Cal? is like Glaston for me, he's so annoying, that I'm starting to "hate" a player/team without much reason other than him.
 
Joakin90 said:
I know.. but still Federer is the better overall player...
Nadal only has the edge on the mentality...

Federer/Messi : born gifted with talent. A lot of talent...more than anybody... natural and superior (way superior) technique
Nadal/CR7 : Maybe half the talent but compensate with a lot of hardwork..
Click to expand...
Being 4-5 years younger, there's every chance Nadal ends up being the greatest tennis player ever ever by the time they both retired.
Ishdalar said:
Messi has played, won and scored in more finals than Ronaldo.

Maybe if Ronaldo was carrying his national team to 3 consecutive finals in the last 6 years he would lose a couple more. But again, I'm arguing with you, you probably think Messi should've done more in the 2007 Copa America vs Brazil, but Ronaldo gets a free pass losing vs Greece because he was a kid, while they both were basically the same age at those finals.
Click to expand...
I'm obviously not talking about the Copa del Rey.

CL:
Ronaldo, played 5 won 4 scored in 3
Messi, played 3 won 4 scored in 2

Euro/WC:
Ronaldo played 2 won 1, scored in 0
Messi played 3 won 0, scored in 0

WC:
Ronaldo played 0
Messi played 1 won 0, scored in 0

Anyone who watched the last WC knows that Argentina defender their way into the final, Messi didn't score in the knockout stage at all, was he keeping all those clean sheets? :lol:

Vialli_92 said:
IF YOU CAN READ MY POST IT CLEARLY SAYS "the majority of last season"

you are worse than the media with your selective quotes unbelievable

Federer is still the GOAT, he has the best technique, shot selection and execution of anyone
Click to expand...
Apologies with the misquote.
 
Cal? said:
Being 4-5 years younger, there's every chance Nadal ends up being the greatest tennis player ever ever by the time they both retired.
Click to expand...

By that same logic, there should also be in your mind every chance that Messi will end up the greatest of the two being 3 years younger and so far performing much better than CR7 this season.
 
Sayros said:
By that same logic, there should also be in your mind every chance that Messi will end up the greatest of the two being 3 years younger and so far performing much better than CR7 this season.
Click to expand...
There’s that possibility.
 
Cal? said:
For one of the best players ever, his international career is something of a disappointment.

Ronaldo is very likely to be the all time 2nd topscorer in international football in the next few months. (Top if you exclude Ali Daei who raked up his numbers against some farcical sides in Asia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_goals_scored_by_Ali_Daei
Click to expand...
lul :lol: 4x vs Andorra, 5x vs Faroe Islands only in the last half of the year. (btw I am just highlighting your double standards and not defending Messi or attacking Ronaldo; they both have had their share of games against weak national teams) You truly are special.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.