Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Cal? said:
Being 4-5 years younger, there's every chance Nadal ends up being the greatest tennis player ever ever by the time they both retired.

I'm obviously not talking about the Copa del Rey.

CL:
Ronaldo, played 5 won 4 scored in 3
Messi, played 3 won 4 scored in 2

Euro/WC:
Ronaldo played 2 won 1, scored in 0
Messi played 3 won 0, scored in 0

WC:
Ronaldo played 0
Messi played 1 won 0, scored in 0

Anyone who watched the last WC knows that Argentina defender their way into the final, Messi didn't score in the knockout stage at all, was he keeping all those clean sheets? :lol:


Apologies with the misquote.
Click to expand...


So is Ronaldo getting a free pass for that World Cup. Despite being worse than Messi and him not getting to the final?
 
Ronaldo only had 2 good games in the last Euro as well, Eder shows up in the finals, Aguero, higuain and di María didn’t.

And when Portugal played Chile they also lost in penalties the last time they played each other.
 
Argentina have been consistently better than Portugal haven't they? Or am I imagining that. Also the only time Portugal won a final Ronaldo didn't really play
 
Forget about there talent for a minute, what about there personalities?

Ronaldo throwing a 'CR7 Gala" for himself:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...aldo-celebrates-2017-special-gala-honour.html

He milks every minute for money and fame, he is obsessed with himself, a serious narcissistic which for many is different to overlook as it is all part of what makes a great footballer great and loved. He is everything that is wrong with the modern day footballer, but also everything that's right. But you can't ignore the bad stuff he brings into the game and has shown the next generation The Wrong Path.

Messi on the other hand doesn't need to have him and his hangers-on constantly pat him on his back to tell him how good he is. He just does his talking on the pitch, then goes home to spend time with his family without constant cameras and recording every moment. Very much like Paul Scholes and football fans respect that approach more. You don't need to milk everything for all it is worth - sometimes discrete is best.

In a way it mirrors Ronaldo talent, he practically has to squeeze himself to every last drop just to match Messi in goals. But it leaves a sour taste that he is constantly whoring himself out for money/fame - it damages him and football long-term.
 
Last edited:
RedStrudel76 said:
Forget about there talent for a minute, what about there personalities?

Ronaldo throwing a 'CR7 Gala" for himself:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...aldo-celebrates-2017-special-gala-honour.html

He milks every minute for money and fame, he is obsessed with himself, a serious narcissistic which for many is different to overlook as it is all part of what makes a great footballer great and loved. He is everything that is wrong with the modern day footballer, but also everything that's right. But you can't ignore the bad stuff he brings into the game and has shown the next generation The Wrong Path.

Messi on the other hand doesn't need to have him and his hangers-on constantly pat him on his back to tell him how good he is. He just does his talking on the pitch, then goes home to spend time with his family without constant cameras and recording every moment. Very much like Paul Scholes and football fans respect that approach more. You don't need to milk everything for all it is worth - sometimes discrete is best.

In a way it mirrors Ronaldo talent, he practically has to squeeze himself to every last drop just to match Messi in goals. But it leaves a sour taste that he is constantly whoring himself out for money/fame - it damages him and The Game long-term.
Click to expand...
:lol:

To be fair, that self absorbed borderline narcissism is probably the biggest reason he's this good. He can't bear the thought to be second best, so he works and trains and goes all out to be the best and hell, he nearly is.

Bit precious though. Wonder if he loves himself more than Cal?
 
RedStrudel76 said:
He is everything that is wrong with the modern day footballer,
Click to expand...
Yes, spending your entire career working harder than most other footballers, dedicating your lifestyle to attain all time great fitness levels and never touching any harmful substances including alcohol is really something that others should completely avoid. Whatever Fergie was thinking while appreciating his work ethic and telling others about his cancerous habits like spending entire nights practicing free kicks.

Some posts in this thread are truly ban-worthy.
 
I really do wish he'd keep his shirt bloody on too. Even managed to take it off for that bloody fad where everyone pretends to be still. His teammates have to think he's a bit of a dick.
 
KirkDuyt said:
:lol:

To be fair, that self absorbed borderline narcissism is probably the biggest reason he's this good. He can't bear the thought to be second best, so he works and trains and goes all out to be the best and hell, he nearly is.

Bit precious though. Wonder if he loves himself more than Cal?
Click to expand...

That's what I mean.. what kind of lesson is that to teach the future generations? be an arrogant self-absorbed narcissist d***head to be successful in football and life? so now we will have young players coming through who have the Baby Bentleys etc with a personality of Ronaldo (loving themselves to the point of cringe) because if it works for him.. lovely !

It's the wrong lesson to teach. The Messi way is the right way. Humble and light will always beat arrogance and dark.
 
I think everyone and their mother by now will admit that Messi is the GOAT, but there will always be a handful hardcore Ronaldo supporters trying to tell otherwise.

I have nothing against Ronaldo, in fact I think he is an extraordinary footballer and one of the best to ever have played the game. But, Messi is on another level. Messi is better in every aspect bar perhaps headers. Messi can play CM, CAM, LW, ST, RW. He is a complete footballer and does things on the ball that no one else can do, so consistently. In midfield he is arguably as good, if not better, as two of the most influential midfielders of all time: Xavi and Iniesta. As a forward he is one of the best. Statistically he is one of the best.

Even now at the age of 30 he is an incredible player to watch. Two years younger than Ronaldo and he will by all means go down as the GOAT at the end of his career.
 
Moby said:
Yes, spending your entire career working harder than most other footballers, dedicating your lifestyle to attain all time great fitness levels and never touching any harmful substances including alcohol is really something that others should completely avoid. Whatever Fergie was thinking while appreciating his work ethic and telling others about his cancerous habits like spending entire nights practicing free kicks.

Some posts in this thread are truly ban-worthy.
Click to expand...

You go on like he has lived like a monk.. have you read the stories in the press about him the past 15 years? partying with hookers, shagging models who practically drop their nickers for him, partying hard (yes he has drunk), going away on amazing holidays, being worshipped wherever he goes, getting loads of freebies and whoring himself out like Beckham for commercials and endorsements etc yes he has dedicated himself and deserves credit, but let's not pretend he has dedicated himself like Paul Scholes or Messi have.
 
RedStrudel76 said:
You go on like he has lived like a monk.. have you read the stories in the press about him the past 15 years? partying with hookers, shagging models who practically drop their nickers for him, partying hard (yes he has drunk), going away on amazing holidays, being worshipped wherever he goes, getting loads of freebies and whoring himself out like Beckham for commercials and endorsements etc yes he has dedicated himself and deserves credit, but let's not pretend he has dedicated himself like Paul Scholes or Messi have.
Click to expand...
Now that's a post that very clearly shows everything that is wrong with the way people perceive people.

What a man does in his personal life, without letting it affect his professional life one bit and actually going on to be far more dedicated and hard working than most players ever iss somehow more relevant. 'Going on amazing holidays' :lol: how dare he. Paul Scholes didn't have a social life, but he or most others including Messi don't hold a candle to the amount of effort Ronaldo has put in to get himself to the point he is at now. Your 'criticism' is truly an embarrassment, if you seriously can't look past his media image which has literally nothing to do with his performances on the pitch. I mean what the feck does him having a model as a girlfield have anything to do with the time he's put in for training and fitness?
 
RedStrudel76 said:
That's what I mean.. what kind of lesson is that to teach the future generations? be an arrogant self-absorbed narcissist d***head to be successful in football and life? so now we will have young players coming through who have the Baby Bentleys etc with a personality of Ronaldo (loving themselves to the point of cringe) because if it works for him.. lovely !

It's the wrong lesson to teach. The Messi way is the right way. Humble and light will always beat arrogance and dark.
Click to expand...
I don't know, it's a bit double. As a professional athlete he's a fantastic example for young kids showing that with hard work and dedication you can come an immense way. He won't be winning any most sympathetic person alive awards, but I don't think that's a footballers job.

I think he's a complete tool, but if you're a talented kid and are going to pick a role model to get the most of your career, you can't do much better than ol' Ronny.

Dirk Kuyt is even better ofcourse, but he has no talent, so there's that.

Also, can't really blame him for shagging models who practically drop their nickers for him, I know I would :wenger:
 
saivet said:
Only found out today that Messi only scored one more goal than CR7 this year and CR7 has a better goals to game ratio. I know a few Messi fan boys and they were up in arms about the Ballon Dor but seeing the stats seems a bit much.
Click to expand...

This is the part of the problem. Using goals to game ratios to ascertain the best player? There’s a reason Gerd Muller was never mentioned amongst the true pantheon. The best players were (in conjunction with performances in big tournaments) primarily judged on traits like passing, natural ability, vision, technique, game awareness and finishing ability. Pele, El Diego, Cruyff, Di Stefano, these players stood out because they just seemed to be on a different plane to everyone else. It wasn’t because they could head better, or run faster, or Poached better, they were just simply better at football. Ronaldo doesn’t quite fit in there. Messi does. Apart from scoring goals, Ronaldo doesn’t do anything else to the supernatural level those mentioned did. He is still an all time great.
 
RedStrudel76 said:
You go on like he has lived like a monk.. have you read the stories in the press about him the past 15 years? partying with hookers, shagging models who practically drop their nickers for him, partying hard (yes he has drunk), going away on amazing holidays, being worshipped wherever he goes, getting loads of freebies and whoring himself out like Beckham for commercials and endorsements etc yes he has dedicated himself and deserves credit, but let's not pretend he has dedicated himself like Paul Scholes or Messi have.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with any of those tbh.
 
saivet said:
Only found out today that Messi only scored one more goal than CR7 this year and CR7 has a better goals to game ratio. I know a few Messi fan boys and they were up in arms about the Ballon Dor but seeing the stats seems a bit much.
Click to expand...
Might be pertinent to actually watch footballers play football before giving an opinion on them, instead of looking at stats. That's the problem with people these days, they think stat sites and FM/FIFA make them experts.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
Might be pertinent to actually watch footballers play football before giving an opinion on them, instead of looking at stats. That's the problem with people these days, they think stat sites and FM/FIFA make them experts.
Click to expand...
+1.

Although I have no issue with Cristiano winning Ballon Dor, as he did showed up in CL last season, so he was not an undeserving winner, but anyone with straight face tells me that Cristiano was as good as Messi, let alone better overall this term or last term, needs a smack with a fish in his face.
 
People using the word fanboy without any kind of sarcasm or satire should be banned in real life. Honestly, stop it.
 
Joakin90 said:
People still comparing CR7 and Messi... they´re not even in the same level....It´s like comparing Federer and Nadal.... Federer has far superior technique..
Click to expand...


i was talking to a friend few weeks ago and I've used the same exact analogy, fedrer/messi far superior in technique and talent while ronaldo/nadal better athleticism. Only difference is nadal a more likable bloke than cr7
 
Migo said:
i was talking to a friend few weeks ago and I've used the same exact analogy, fedrer/messi far superior in technique and talent while ronaldo/nadal better athleticism. Only difference is nadal a more likable bloke than cr7
Click to expand...
TBH it's a bit harsh on Nadal, more like Federer vs Roddick.
 
Migo said:
i was talking to a friend few weeks ago and I've used the same exact analogy, fedrer/messi far superior in technique and talent while ronaldo/nadal better athleticism. Only difference is nadal a more likable bloke than cr7
Click to expand...

Nadal has a similar problem to Ronaldo, people have been praising his athleticism, grit and results so much that they're actually forgetting that without that, he still has more class than 99% of the ATP tour.

Still, comparing individual vs team sports is apples and oranges. When Federer or Nadal lose they can only potentially blame the ref, injuries or bad coaching, otherwise is really on them. When Ronaldo and Messi lose (or win too) they have those same factors, plus 10 other more in their teams that can screw or win then a game in a single moment.

Comparisons overcomplicate things, this whole debate about Messi with the national team would be over if his father told him 12 years ago "Screw Argentina, go play with Spain" in a spiteful manner close to what Diego Costa did to choose us. Then Spain it's Barcelona 2.0 from 2005 onwards + Ramos, Silva, Villa and other pals. And Argentina default to struggle making it into QF for all these years, just like they were doing from 1994 to 2006. But him pissing on the world with Spain wouldn't actually turn him into a better player, just more successful.
 
shamans said:
Right because Rodick has won bigger trophies than Federrer (Euro 2016) and has the same amount of WOPTY as Fed? Give it a break.
Click to expand...
No, because Nadal has much more talent than he's given credit for and is a very humble and sympathetic person.

Also, the time for extremely serious debate on this topic has long since passed hasn't it? It's basicly the world population arguing with Cal.
 
shamans said:
At the end of the Messi, Ronaldo won a national trophy for his team and Messi didn't and that to me makes Ronaldo the greater footballer.
Click to expand...

There's a list a mile long of players better than Messi then. Everyone who's won an international trophy.
 
Ishdalar said:
Nadal has a similar problem to Ronaldo, people have been praising his athleticism, grit and results so much that they're actually forgetting that without that, he still has more class than 99% of the ATP tour.

Still, comparing individual vs team sports is apples and oranges. When Federer or Nadal lose they can only potentially blame the ref, injuries or bad coaching, otherwise is really on them. When Ronaldo and Messi lose (or win too) they have those same factors, plus 10 other more in their teams that can screw or win then a game in a single moment.

Comparisons overcomplicate things, this whole debate about Messi with the national team would be over if his father told him 12 years ago "Screw Argentina, go play with Spain" in a spiteful manner close to what Diego Costa did to choose us. Then Spain it's Barcelona 2.0 from 2005 onwards + Ramos, Silva, Villa and other pals. And Argentina default to struggle making it into QF for all these years, just like they were doing from 1994 to 2006. But him pissing on the world with Spain wouldn't actually turn him into a better player, just more successful.
Click to expand...

I agree with your first point. People talk about Ronaldo's athleticism so much that they forget what an incredible skillful footballer he was. Yes he has the "hard work" ethic but from a young age it was obvious he was something special. You would think it's like a player of Hazard/Nani's quality just worked hard. Ronaldo has always been naturally gifted

As for your last point, I see where you're coming from but you can't look at things that way. It's not like Messi's team was Gibraltar. He has been part of very capable and talented Argentina sides. He himself bottled a penalty. You could make the same argument about Ronaldo if he played for a side like pep's Barca he would have more trophies and POTY awards.

I think it's neck to neck between the two and 'versus' depends on what you're measuring. Greatest player on the ball? Greatest player with achievement? Greatest player to watch? It all varies. For me, it's Ronaldo but if someone else says Messi I totally see their point.

The only thing that makes no sense is the underrating of Ronaldo by saying the Brazilian one was a greater player or comparing him to Roddick. Also saying Messi is leagues above him and he is 'just' a goalscorer is just being blind to Ronaldo's achievements.
 
Gareth williams said:
There's a list a mile long of players better than Messi then. Everyone who's won an international trophy.
Click to expand...
I've always said Joan Capdevila was a far better player than Maldini.

Joking aside though, football is a team game, you can hardly call winning those euro's the defining factor. Especially since Portugal were utter shite and France bottled the final. A Final Ronaldo didn't even play in. And a final they only reached because for the first time in history numbers 3 werent knocked out at the group stages. They were the worst winners since Greece in 2004. Messi got to a WC final in 2014 and was voted player of the tournament (not fairly imo but still), that's a greater personal achievement if you ask me (no one did, I know).

As for the comparison to Roddick, fine thats extremely harsh on Ronnie :)
 
I believe the eternal guardians of Ronaldo's honor are putting in shifts. When one is absent, another one takes up the mantle and stands in. Commendable dedication, passion and perseverance.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I've always said Joan Capdevila was a far better player than Maldini.

Joking aside though, football is a team game, you can hardly call winning those euro's the defining factor. Especially since Portugal were utter shite and France bottled the final. A Final Ronaldo didn't even play in. And a final they only reached because for the first time in history numbers 3 werent knocked out at the group stages. They were the worst winners since Greece in 2004. Messi got to a WC final in 2014 and was voted player of the tournament (not fairly imo but still), that's a greater personal achievement if you ask me (no one did, I know).
Click to expand...

So now getting to the finals is a bigger achievement than winning the damn thing? :lol:

Ronaldo and Pepe were Portugals main players during the whole tournament. They wouldn't have even made the finals without Ronaldo. If football is such a team game then how about we discredit Messi for all his achievements during the pep/xavi/iniesta era and say it's a team game. He wasn't responsible?
 
shamans said:
So now getting to the finals is a bigger achievement than winning the damn thing? :lol:

Ronaldo and Pepe were Portugals main players during the whole tournament. They wouldn't have even made the finals without Ronaldo. If football is such a team game then how about we discredit Messi for all his achievements during the pep/xavi/iniesta era and say it's a team game. He wasn't responsible?
Click to expand...
Sure, let's discard all trophies and achievements and focus purely on footballing ability. Surely you can't argue Ronaldo is better then? Trophies are quite honestly the only thing keeping him in the discussion.

Getting to the finals can indeed be a greater achievement than winning the finals. For instance, Ajax reaching the final of the EL is an infinitely bigger achievement than United winning it for me. Opinions can vary and your more than welcome to yours, but taking trophies out of the equation is not a wise choice when backing Ronaldo imho.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Sure, let's discard all trophies and achievements and focus purely on footballing ability. Surely you can't argue Ronaldo is better then? Trophies are quite honestly the only thing keeping him in the discussion.

Getting to the finals can indeed be a greater achievement than winning the finals. For instance, Ajax reaching the final of the EL is an infinitely bigger achievement than United winning it for me. Opinions can vary and your more than welcome to yours, but taking trophies out of the equation is not a wise choice when backing Ronaldo imho.
Click to expand...

That is not what the "greatest player" or "greater player" means in my opinion because it is way too vague. How do you define footballing ability? What is the point of football. Score goals? Win trophies? What you can do with the football at your feet?

Who has better footballing ability: Andrew Cole or Berbatov? Who was the greater player? It is too vague.
 
shamans said:
That is not what the "greatest player" or "greater player" means in my opinion because it is way too vague. How do you define footballing ability? What is the point of football. Score goals? Win trophies? What you can do with the football at your feet?

Who has better footballing ability: Andrew Cole or Berbatov? Who was the greater player? It is too vague.
Click to expand...
That's what it comes down to in the end. I actually said something similar a few pages back :) It's not a hard science, that's why this debate can go on untill 2099 and we still won't figure it out.

It's hard to put into words, but simply put Messi is good at everything dribbling / passing / playmaking / vision / scoring / hell, he's probably a good goalkeeper. He just a freak in the talent department. Ronaldo, while immensely talented himself, isnt as good at dribbling / passing / playmaking etc. He has a more powerfull shot, is much better to whip crosses at and is at least as prolific a goalscorer. He might also edge Messi in the big games, but to me the level of competence in the basics I listed above determines who is better and to me that's clearly Messi. Ronaldo is amazing too, but not as amazing as Messi imo.

I'd end it with a "lets be happy we can enjoy both" statement, but that makes me nauseous so I won't. Really to each his own though, not looking to be a dick about it (I tend to fail).
 
shamans said:
That's not how logic works.

Won an international trophy AND same amount of POTY as Messi AND more goals than Messi in the champions league. Now can you refine that list?
Click to expand...


So if Portugal hadn't won Messi would be the better player? Would Ronaldo become less talented in that situation or Messi more? Just so I understand your logic
 
RedStrudel76 said:
You go on like he has lived like a monk.. have you read the stories in the press about him the past 15 years? partying with hookers, shagging models who practically drop their nickers for him, partying hard (yes he has drunk), going away on amazing holidays, being worshipped wherever he goes, getting loads of freebies and whoring himself out like Beckham for commercials and endorsements etc yes he has dedicated himself and deserves credit, but let's not pretend he has dedicated himself like Paul Scholes or Messi have.
Click to expand...


I thought this thread was about who is better football player but post like these are pathetic and uncalled for .

just shows you are obsessed with Ronaldo ... All Players and people who have worked with him speak highly about his professionalism and attitude so i guess their opinion is much valid than yours ..something is wrong with you mate . Messi may be ( not sure ..i think it's 50-50 ) better football player but you don't really need to go this low .
 
shamans said:
At the end of the Messi, Ronaldo won a national trophy for his team and Messi didn't and that to me makes Ronaldo the greater footballer.
Click to expand...

That's an awful way of looking at it, Ronaldo didn't even play in the Euro final.
 
shamans said:
That's not how logic works.

Won an international trophy AND same amount of POTY as Messi AND more goals than Messi in the champions league. Now can you refine that list?
Click to expand...

shamans said:
So now getting to the finals is a bigger achievement than winning the damn thing? :lol:

Ronaldo and Pepe were Portugals main players during the whole tournament. They wouldn't have even made the finals without Ronaldo. If football is such a team game then how about we discredit Messi for all his achievements during the pep/xavi/iniesta era and say it's a team game. He wasn't responsible?
Click to expand...

shamans said:
That is not what the "greatest player" or "greater player" means in my opinion because it is way too vague. How do you define footballing ability? What is the point of football. Score goals? Win trophies? What you can do with the football at your feet?

Who has better footballing ability: Andrew Cole or Berbatov? Who was the greater player? It is too vague.
Click to expand...
shamans said:
Look above and at previous posts. We're not discussing talent. We are discussing the greatest player.
Click to expand...

With the arguments you're using, the discussion for greatest player ever should be between Iniesta and Xavi, not Messi and Ronaldo.

2 Euros, 1 WC, 8 League titles, 3 and 5 Cups, 4 UCL and two treble seasons, they were key part on two of the best teams in the history of football, so if you're really looking for the greatest player in terms of success in this sport, you can't look beyond those two, doesn't matter that they aren't goalscorers, no one comes close to their accolades.

If you really wanted to discredit Messi for playing with those two guys, then they're in the lead for being the engine of two top 10 teams in football history.
 
Ishdalar said:
With the arguments you're using, the discussion for greatest player ever should be between Iniesta and Xavi, not Messi and Ronaldo.

2 Euros, 1 WC, 8 League titles, 3 and 5 Cups, 4 UCL and two treble seasons, they were key part on two of the best teams in the history of football, so if you're really looking for the greatest player in terms of success in this sport, you can't look beyond those two, doesn't matter that they aren't goalscorers, no one comes close to their accolades.

If you really wanted to discredit Messi for playing with those two guys, then they're in the lead for being the engine of two top 10 teams in football history.
Click to expand...
Oh absolutely.

Xavi is in the Pele and Beckenbauer tier when it comes to what they achieved. Unmatched talent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.