Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
shamans said:
Firstly, anyone that suggest Mess "would struggle" outside of Barcelona is not being genuine or has no understanding of the player. Wherever he plays, he will most likely always be in the argument for GOAT. However, there is something to be said about Messi spending his entire career in a Barcelona team that has been catered to his needs. How much does that downplay his success? IMO not really but it is a valid point and if you are going to go down the "Messi vs Ronaldo" debate which I'm not a big fan of, you must take these things into consideration.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The notion that all of a sudden a WC player will not be as successful, is hogwash. It doesn't matter really. There are arguments used by opposing factions that are simply moot points: Like CR's playing style being more direct, more physical is somehow 'lesser' than Messi's twisting runs and dribbles; Different styles same outcome.
Secondly, Ronaldo has not been underwhelming for his nation. He was a key part in them winning Europe last year. Apart from that, no one expects much from Portugals national team so he hasn't really been disappointing anyone. Messi on the other hand has failed in the NT level. People will argue all day that it's not his fault, higuin sucks and all that but it doesn't matter. At the the end of the day him (and all the other Argentine players involved) did not deliver the gold.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The reason Maradona is considered one of the greats is because of what he achieved at the national level (WC 86). Not many remember the Euros 04 which Portugal lost in the final to Greece (at home), but having come so close, CR wanted it at any cost. To say the Argentina squad is more talented than Portugal is a fact, puts CR's achievements in a higher stead I think.
 
Moby said:
Peak Madrid Ronaldo on the left as a goalscorer making darting runs into the box getting the end of Messi's inch perfect lobs from the right.

It's the most unstoppable tandem ever seen in the sport.
Click to expand...

:drool:
 
GailWynand said:
Messi is the sole reason for Argentina's (Di Maria, Mascherano, Higuain, Dybala, Aguero, Tevez) cup triumphs runs while Ronaldo's Portugal who ended up winning the Euros did not have a great tournament? :lol:
'Didn't play in the final' is the stupidest argument I've heard - as if it's the player's fault for getting himself injured.
Click to expand...

Ronaldo was good at most in the tournament and got them to the final. Didn't play in the final. Messi in his tournaments was good but didn't get them over the line in the final.

Don't see how either of them should be gratified anymore than the other considering neither were major influences in the final or all throughout the tournament.

Both are supposedly the best of all time yet I can't think of one stand out international tournament from either, claiming otherwise is playing down the ability of the two. 3 goals all tournament (same as Nani got iirc, who was ridiculed on here) is not a good tournament by the best or second best player in the world. I also already mentioned Messi should have been better.
 
Last edited:
Womp said:
Ronaldo was good at most in the tournament and got them to the final. Didn't play in the final. Messi in his tournaments was good but didn't get them over the line in the final.

Don't see how either of them should be gratified anymore than the other considering neither were major influences in the final or all throughout the tournament.
Click to expand...

One won his country it's first European triumph, the other quit his national team after a final defeat.
That's the difference.
 
Moby said:
It's not exactly an outlandish claim, even if I don't agree with it.
Click to expand...

There seems to romanticism because we have seen them play, the future generation will have their own set of geniuses and they will be touted to be better than CR/Messi and the same cycle will continue. A player is a product of the times - take it out of context and you make a lot of great players world-class and vice versa.
 
One of the main reasons why Messi and Ronaldo haven't excelled at international level is that they are exhausted by the their feats at club level and are not fresh enough after scoring and assisting 60-70 goals during the season.

One is certain: if Klose can score so many goals in WC games, so can Messi and Ronaldo - only if they are fresh enough and their teams are good enough to create chances for them.
 
No way will ronnie be considered greater than Messie, be real, hardly any pundit/pros in football name Ronaldo right now greater then Messi. What makes you think that over time that will miraculously change? Opinion is heavily influenced by media.


The worst argument Ronaldo voters(haha) have about him being the greatest is portugal 2016, which was literally won off the back of great defensive performances.


And no stats don't show who's a more creative player, there's no such thing as a preassist counter. If there was Pogba would be shown as instrumental for us this season

It's amazing though how rash social media like comments from crazed madridistas flood into the REDcafe though. The state of this thread, legitimately looks like a facebook comments section
 
Last edited:
GailWynand said:
One won his country it's first European triumph, the other quit his national team after a final defeat.
That's the difference.
Click to expand...

He ultimately was as effective as Messi has been for his country though, he didn't even play in the final and was poor in the group stages as has been pointed out many a time. If you want to believe that was a good tournament by Ronaldo's standards then so be it, but I don't agree.

Also I don't care to get into a discussion about Argentina's football politics, their whole FA is a shambles, whether or not Messi wants to retire because he doesn't want to play for them is his decision alone.
 
Treble said:
One of the main reasons why Messi and Ronaldo haven't excelled at international level is that they are exhausted by the their feats at club level and are not fresh enough after scoring and assisting 60-70 goals during the season.

One is certain: if Klose can score so many goals in WC games, so can Messi and Ronaldo - only if they are fresh enough and their teams are good enough to create chances for them.
Click to expand...

Playing for Germany isn't the same as playing for Portugal or even Argentina; considering the level these two are on - if they played for any of the heavy-weights, I wonder what would have happened?
 
Obiorahking_ said:
You put Ronaldo over Maradona, Cryuff, and Pele?
Click to expand...


Yeah by a country mile as well.


You mention 3 legends but neither will have a record like Ronaldo once he retires, both personal and team wins he's on another planet. Top goal scorer ever for Madrid while being the top scorer in Champions League history is incredible, you won't feel how truly special Ronaldo and Messi are until they retire.
 
One of the myths about Messi is that he is the best goalscorer, dribbler and passer at the same time. Which is blatantly wrong. When Messi was the best dribbler (age 19-25), he wasn't a great goalscorer or a passer yet. When he became the best goalscorer, he lost some of his dribbling ability and wasn't yet the best passer. And when he has become the best passer, he ain't anymore the best goalscorer or dribbler. Neymar is a better dribbler than him these days and also creates more chances than him. For all his creativity, Messi's rate of assisting CL goals is still worlse than Ronaldo's. Let that sink in for sa moment.

Ronaldo is often underrated because his fantastic skill to create chances for himself and others through his extraordinary movement is underappreciated. His goals and asissts look often easy and it seems that the team creates chances for him and he is lucky to be there to take them. Completely wrong. His movement allows him to be in the right place in the right moment and makes his goals and assists look easy.
 
Womp said:
He ultimately was as effective as Messi has been for his country though, he didn't even play in the final and was poor in the group stages as has been pointed out many a time. If you want to believe that was a good tournament by Ronaldo's standards then so be it, but I don't agree.

Also I don't care to get into a discussion about Argentina's football politics, their whole FA is a shambles, whether or not Messi wants to retire because he doesn't want to play for them is his decision alone.
Click to expand...
The guy is utterly deluded, dont bother too much.
 
Womp said:
He ultimately was as effective as Messi has been for his country though, he didn't even play in the final and was poor in the group stages as has been pointed out many a time. If you want to believe that was a good tournament by Ronaldo's standards then so be it, but I don't agree.
Click to expand...

it wasn't a good tournament, agreed. But if you think winning the European Cup is on par with reaching cup finals and not winning anything, then I'll have to disagree.
 
Treble said:
One of the myths about Messi is that he is the best goalscorer, dribbler and passer at the same time. Which is blatantly wrong. When Messi was the best dribbler (age 19-25), he wasn't a great goalscorer or a passer yet. When he became the best goalscorer, he lost some of his dribbling ability and wasn't yet the best passer. And when he has become the best passer, he ain't anymore the best goalscorer or dribbler. Neymar is a better dribbler than him these days and also creates more chances than him. For all his creativity, Messi's rate of assisting CL goals is still worlse than Ronaldo's. Let that sink in for sa moment.

Ronaldo is often underrated because his fantastic skill to create chances for himself and others through his extraordinary movement is underappreciated. His goals and asissts look often easy and it seems that the team creates chances for him and he is lucky to be there to take them. Completely wrong. His movement allows him to be in the right place in the right moment and makes his goals and assists look easy.
Click to expand...
The best passes isnt necessarily the player with the most assists, go ask the likes of Kroos, Scholes, Iniesta, Xavi. Or even our own Pogba. How more forward you play, thenlikelier you are to assist, as when you square an easy ball that counts for an assists, but an amazing pass pre the assists, isnt counted. Compare Ronaldo en Messi's chances created and key passes per 90 mins. Just like how Rooney has 10 assists this season but he's awful and hasnt even played all the time. Dont think Neymar is a better dribbler either, but he's more explosive.
 
GailWynand said:
it wasn't a good tournament, agreed. But if you think winning the European Cup is on par with reaching cup finals and not winning anything, then I'll have to disagree.
Click to expand...
Ronaldo didnt win the cup really as he didnt really play the final. Portugal might as well lost the final but it wouldnt change anything on how he played and thus on how you should judge him. He had no influence as a player in the final.
 
GailWynand said:
it wasn't a good tournament, agreed. But if you think winning the European Cup is on par with reaching cup finals and not winning anything, then I'll have to disagree.
Click to expand...

I never said that though. I just said both have underwhelmed internationally throughout their careers. I don't think one is worth much more praise than the other, considering both were underwhelming in said tournaments.(apart from flashes of brilliance) With the ability both possess it's underwhelming that I can't pick out a single tournament where either of them dominated it.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Ronaldo didnt win the cup really as he didnt really play the final. Portugal might as well lost the final but it wouldnt change anything on how he played and thus on how you should judge him. He had no influence as a player in the final.
Click to expand...

That's essentially what I said but you quote my post and say I'm deluded?
 
Treble said:
One of the main reasons why Messi and Ronaldo haven't excelled at international level is that they are exhausted by the their feats at club level and are not fresh enough after scoring and assisting 60-70 goals during the season.

One is certain: if Klose can score so many goals in WC games, so can Messi and Ronaldo - only if they are fresh enough and their teams are good enough to create chances for them.
Click to expand...

Is that true though? Neymar has been playing at a very high level for Barca for a while now yet he is one of, if not the best national performer around.

Don't think anyone can argue they should have provided more for their national teams.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Ronaldo didnt win the cup really as he didnt really play the final. Portugal might as well lost the final but it wouldnt change anything on how he played and thus on how you should judge him. He had no influence as a player in the final.
Click to expand...

You are finding it so difficult to hide your unabashed bias yet you have the audacity to call me deluded?
 
GailWynand said:
You are finding it so difficult to hide your unabashed bias yet you have the audacity to call me deluded?
Click to expand...
Im not biased at all, I have nothing with Barcelona, Real Madrid, Argentina or Portugal, but you're argument is so poor and doesnt make sense. Ronaldo didnt really play the final, so how does he gets so much credit for Portugal winning the tournament and you discredit Messi for losing the final. It doesnt make any sense, he didnt even play the final, whether Portugal lost or won has no effect on how he played.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Im not biased at all, I have nothing with Barcelona, Real Madrid, Argentina or Portugal, but you're argument is so poor and doesnt make sense. Ronaldo didnt really play the final, so how does he gets so much credit for Portugal winning the tournament and you discredit Messi for losing the final. It doesnt make any sense, he didnt even play the final, whether Portugal lost or won has no effect on how he played.
Click to expand...

If you don't get the context, please refrain from commenting. I was replying to the bloke who said their international achievements are comparable - they are not because one happened to win something tangible. How does that not make sense to you?
 
GailWynand said:
If you don't get the context, please refrain from commenting. I was replying to the bloke who said their international achievements are comparable - they are not because one happened to win something tangible. How does that not make sense to you?
Click to expand...
That's true, Ronaldo has won something and Messi hasnt but if you use that to discredit Messi or uplift Ronaldo, thats where the context gets taken out.
 
GailWynand said:
If you don't get the context, please refrain from commenting. I was replying to the bloke who said their international achievements are comparable - they are not because one happened to win something tangible. How does that not make sense to you?
Click to expand...

I'm not the oldest, I haven't seen Maradonna or Pele's exploits in World Cups with my own eyes live, so I can't comment, I was far too young, but I feel like I've witnessed the two best players I've ever seen in Ronaldo and Messi, but their performances internationally have left a lot to be desired. Yes Ronaldo won the Euros, but I was hardly impressed, he wasn't good at all by his standards in the group stages, came alive in the knockout stages then didn't even participate in the final, which was by far their most difficult game (Yes, I know it wasn't his fault).

Then you have Messi, started off both Copa America's and World Cups flying, was one of the best, if not the best player in the early stages, but lost his spark towards the final.

Both players have had similar influences in their NT exploits, that's what I meant. Even though Ronaldo won, I don't feel like he was any better than what Messi has produced for Argentina in similar tournaments, yet Portugal won and Argentina didn't but that's football and that's why I don't think it's right to use their exploits with their nations as a way to differentiate between the two. Let's be real, players with their ability have dominated Champions League's from start to finish, the pinnacle of football, why shouldn't we expect the same from them for the National teams?

I think both have been very underwhelming throughout their careers in that aspect, which is a shame, because of how good they've been in their club careers.
 
Last edited:
I think a few people here need a rewatch of our Euro 2016 campaign. I wouldn't blame them if they didn't bother though :lol:

There's no doubt Cristiano was our best player and you won't find a single person in the country displeased with his performances for Portugal as a whole.
 
Messi is the better player seems to be a general consensus but Ronaldo just keeps scoring goals and it makes the debate hard to settle. It's weird like that hey?
 
Sammyjunn said:
Ok why do you think Ronaldo won them the cup (your initial claim). Because he got them to the final?
Click to expand...
To be fair, didn't he win the Silver Boot? He was clearly really important to them in the tournament, he obviously didn't do it on his own.
 
WR10 said:
Messi is the better player seems to be a general consensus but Ronaldo just keeps scoring goals and it makes the debate hard to settle. It's weird like that hey?
Click to expand...

Turns out they're both human after all, don't think the gap between them is as big as it use to be. Messi in that dominant Barca side was untouchable, was nutmegging anyone that came near him but he hasn't seemed to have aged as well as Ronaldo has, who's still a beast.

Think the difference between them two now comes down to their form and the state of their squads, as there's not much between them now.
 
Berbasbullet said:
To be fair, didn't he win the Silver Boot? He was clearly really important to them in the tournament, he obviously didn't do it on his own.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, but wasnt Messi equally as important as getting Argentina to the finals 3x in a row? Basically they were comparable in that regard I think. But when Portugal won the final, when Ronaldo got injured (which isnt his fault ofcourse, it seems the notion turned into Ronaldo won the EC and Messi bottled a final..
 
WR10 said:
Messi is the better player seems to be a general consensus but Ronaldo just keeps scoring goals and it makes the debate hard to settle. It's weird like that hey?
Click to expand...

Messi is the better player overall but Chris is also a legend with a legendary career that no other footballer will match. Saying Messi is better doesn't make Chris worse. They are both legends.

Ronald is just not the complete player he was during his last 2 seasons with us and first period with RM. He's now a goal scoring machine that knows how to put the ball in the net. He maintained his perfect positioning in the box and always an easy target for his teammates to find in critical positions to score, he has declined in other perspectives though , which Messi hasn't declined in it yet.
 
Womp said:
I'm not the oldest, I haven't seen Maradonna or Pele's exploits in World Cups with my own eyes live, so I can't comment, I was far too young, but I feel like I've witnessed the two best players I've ever seen in Ronaldo and Messi, but their performances internationally have left a lot to be desired. Yes Ronaldo won the Euros, but I was hardly impressed, he wasn't good at all by his standards in the group stages, came alive in the knockout stages then didn't even participate in the final, which was by far their most difficult game (Yes, I know it wasn't his fault).

Then you have Messi, started off both Copa America's and World Cups flying, was one of the best, if not the best player in the early stages, but lost his spark towards the final.

Both players have had similar influences in their NT exploits, that's what I meant. Even though Ronaldo won, I don't feel like he was any better than what Messi has produced for Argentina in similar tournaments, yet Portugal won and Argentina didn't but that's football and that's why I don't think it's right to use their exploits with their nations as a way to differentiate between the two. Let's be real, players with their ability have dominated Champions League's from start to finish, the pinnacle of football, why shouldn't we expect the same from them for the National teams?

I think both have been very underwhelming throughout their careers in that aspect, which is a shame, because of how good they've been in their club careers.
Click to expand...

Agree with a lot of points here. There is a long discussion I don't want to get into but there is a difference in styles which leads to an assumption that CR doesn't do a whole lot; Messi is the marauding dribbler with his world-class ball control which is pivotal in setting up and creating goals for FCB; CR is the all-action powerhouse up front who is responsible for the goals and relies on his anticipation and off-the-ball movement; When each is having not that good a game - Messi still creates passes and chances but doesn't amount to much. CR mops around waiting for the ball, and is frankly disgusting to watch. The point is when CR gets it right - it's luck and not his repetitive attempts to get at the end of those balls while if Messi does it - it seems he had a great game - that is what baffles me. I hope you get this subtle distinction.
 
Last edited:
el3mel said:
Messi is the better player overall but Chris is also a legend with a legendary career that no other footballer will match. Saying Messi is better doesn't make Chris worse. They are both legends.

Ronald is just not the complete player he was during his last 2 seasons with us and first period with RM. He's now a goal scoring machine that knows how to put the ball in the net. He maintained his perfect positioning in the box and always an easy target for his teammates to find in critical positions to score, he has declined in other perspectives though , which Messi hasn't declined in it yet.
Click to expand...

Which are those? Ronaldo isn't as fast as he used to be, but he showed plenty of pace yesterday. To me, it looks like he has played with a bit of an injury for parts of the season. Messi also has clearly lost some pace. Neither are as good dribblers as they used to be as both have developed their style to a more pragmatic approach and fewer flashy moments.
 
el3mel said:
Messi is the better player overall but Chris is also a legend with a legendary career that no other footballer will match. Saying Messi is better doesn't make Chris worse. They are both legends.

Ronald is just not the complete player he was during his last 2 seasons with us and first period with RM. He's now a goal scoring machine that knows how to put the ball in the net. He maintained his perfect positioning in the box and always an easy target for his teammates to find in critical positions to score, he has declined in other perspectives though , which Messi hasn't declined in it yet.
Click to expand...
Think I agree with this sentiment. I persinally think Messi is the best but Ronaldo is absolutely insane as well, the guy almost never disappoints when it matters. What he has done the past two matches outweights the 5 goals vs Malmo etc, vs two of the best defences in the world, hat tricks like they're nothing. I think his consistency in deciding big matches the last few years has even bettered Messi's.
 
Rossa said:
Which are those? Ronaldo isn't as fast as he used to be, but he showed plenty of pace yesterday. To me, it looks like he has played with a bit of an injury for parts of the season. Messi also has clearly lost some pace. Neither are as good dribblers as they used to be as both have developed their style to a more pragmatic approach and fewer flashy moments.
Click to expand...

Not pace, he's just not the great dribbler who can get past defenders with ease anymore. At time when he left us he was excellent in most everything, skills, dribbles, headers, shots , corners, FKs, penalties, nearly everything, he was the complete player at this time.

He traded his skills and dribbles for few years now for excellent positioning and becoming a machine scoring goals non stop. I think it's also normal considering his age that he adopted his style for the this, now he looks a number 9 player than a wing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.