Well football wise there's nothing much between Maradona and Messi, and let's just say Messi is far more consistent, far better goalscorer, and much better execution and productivity than Maradona. Maradona though, has better flair, far more influential and better leadership and arguably performs better on big stage than Messi. On club football level, there's not even a match, Messi easily wins by a margin. On international stage though, hands down, Maradona wins.
Messi retires from Argentina.
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Ok, so explain this:
1. You think that Messi does not have the unpredictability that Maradona (or Ronaldinho) had.
2. You think Maradona wasn't as consistent as Messi.
Fact: Maradonna performed in some of the most important games for his country (Messi hasn't).
Assuming everything else remains equal, doesn't this tilt the argument in Maradonna's favour. Even if you give club level consistency double the weightage, the argument is fairly neutral.
I don't think one is better than the other. Messi is one of the greatest players to play football - especially in my lifetime.
Hopefully he returns.
I can understand how he'd feel this way. The nation needs a reality check and then Messi can return without some of the pressure and enjoy the next world cup.
I can understand how he'd feel this way. The nation needs a reality check and then Messi can return without some of the pressure and enjoy the next world cup.
This
I wouldn't waste my time playing for a nation that doesn't rate me.
I do think there's a clear daylight because of the sheer consistency with which Messi pulls it off. Week after week, season after season for what 10+ years now. Let's face it, Maradona never even came close to achieving the same level of consistency. And I do think Messi is the better dribbler and passer in any case.
Those are intangible qualities and quite frankly I have zero interest in having any kind of debate around that.
Well you are the expert on being a wanker so will take your word on it.
Eh?
No, I think Maradona's supposed unpredictability is down to the very fact that he wasn't as inconsistent and hence that element of surprise.
What? How? Are we going to completely ignore Messi club exploits because it doesn't suit your agenda?
I still believe that Maradona has the highest technical ability I have seen in my lifetime. He was a better passer than Messi, better at escaping pressure and his creativity was much higher. When in a culdesacs he could still advance play with his passing by doing something ingenious where as Messi slows down counters and pirouettes and then passes the ball.
It's difficult to compare the 2 because this era is too conducive to attacking football. Messi's consistency is unparalleled. I think a lot of people doNT rate Messi as highly because we see him too often. Familiarity breeds contempt.
Playing for your national team isn't about being rated. Its about personal patriotism/ pride. I guess Messi wouldn't be very affected by that as he is now more Spanish than Argentinian anyway.
What's crawled up you knickers? Was a joke. Calm down
If Messi played for Portugal he would have retired ages ago..
This Argentina team is the best there will be for a long time, so it is now or never for them..
Regardless , as a professional and sportsman he should be honoured to play for his country and what makes the best players the best is their attitude and determination to carry on after the going gets tough!
This Argentina team is the best there will be for a long time, so it is now or never for them..
Regardless , as a professional and sportsman he should be honoured to play for his country and what makes the best players the best is their attitude and determination to carry on after the going gets tough!
I'd lose a lot of respect for him if he does infact retire. You can't just bail on your national side like that.
And to those who are saying national football is a joke and no one cares about it, particularly @mbb8, you're lying. The players are their most passionate when playing for their country, and as a fan you'll never feel more proud than when your side progresses, or even qualifies in the case of some, through a tournament. Tell the Irish or Icelandic fans that no one cares about national football.
And to those who are saying national football is a joke and no one cares about it, particularly @mbb8, you're lying. The players are their most passionate when playing for their country, and as a fan you'll never feel more proud than when your side progresses, or even qualifies in the case of some, through a tournament. Tell the Irish or Icelandic fans that no one cares about national football.
Agreed, Ajax of 70s were up there with the greatest club side of all time. Most of them played for Netherlands too and I'd personally rate them higher than '82 Brazil when it comes to best NT side to never win the WC. But I rate Cruijff higher because he was a manager on the pitch while playing. Apart from contributing heavily with Rinus Michels for the Totaal Voetbal tactics, Cruijff also made sure the team followed the blueprint on the pitch. He then went to Barcelona and won the La Liga immediately with 5-0 win over Madrid as the icing on the cake. Not to mention coming back to Netherlands and winning with Ajax and Feyenoord again. As a player, I rate Cruijff slightly higher than Messi (and I don't mind people rating Messi higher too - it's so close I don't bother arguing heavily without coming across as underrating either one). But the managerial career is what put Cruijff much higher when we discuss about contribution to the game. All IMO, of course.
Still can't believe Messi retired from Argentina. I have a feeling he will definitely reconsider his decision and come back soon. 2018 is possibly the last time we'll see him before he goes on the wane.
Well, to accurately and objectively define a single player as the greatest of all time is probably impossible in the first place, because it depends on the aspects of the game you define for yourself as the most important ones which varies from person to person and there is no general consensus of what part of the game should be viewed as measuring stick to go by or how to compromise on playing in different eras or leagues. Therefore it's possible to view some defender/midfielder like Beckenbauer as the best or a striker like Pelé. It's very much the same with good food. The way it tastes to you heavily depends on the mood you are in and your general preferences. But the quality of the cooking certainly can get graded to some degree.
People automatically try to assess someones/somethings worth to society/organisations/themselves etc. and usually there's a consesus of how to define that worth. If there wasn't no one would need to study anymore or put in any effort at work. It's only natural to do so and usually triggers effort and performance. It's a good thing imho.
And you misunderstood where I was coming from. I never stated Messi had anything to prove to me or anyone. At least not as a humang being. That's up to his friends and family to decide. But everyone is free to judge his worth as a footballer as are people to judge my worth as a confectioner.
People claiming he was the greatest of all time (assessing Messi's contribution in football as the greatest ever witnessed) while discrediting players like Ronaldo de Lima or others who made it big at the Euros or the World Cup, deserve a bit of criticism. And I stand by what I said about Messi's mentality. It's his decision to play or not play for his country and when to retire. As a human I respect his decisions and he can do whatever he wants, but don't expect me not to let the early ending of his NT carreer (and the reasons he stated) affect my assessment of his exploits in the world of football because it's a part of it as far as I'm concerned.
There not intangible qualities. Incredibly important qualities on a football pitch if you ask me.
Having seen the missed penalty now.. he choked big time and I think this statement is him being deeply upset and in shock. He'll be back.
His antics after the missed penalty weren't particularly helpful to his team mates though. He looked mentally shot to pieces.
And you thought I was serious? Go have a wank, geddit?
Good move. Comparatively speaking, international football is crap anyway and Messi leaving will just reinforce its second class stature. Hopefully this will result in a prolonging of his club career well into his mid 30s.
Being important qualities (Which I agree with) does not preclude them from being intangible.
Indeed, like the weight of an entire nation was purely on him
Which is why those calling him a pussy is really annoying me.
Guess I do need a wank now that I think about it!
You can say Maradona does everything with more flair, and with more wow factor. But Messi does everything just as good and perhaps even more effective.
Really? Less than 10 years ago when Cruyff made his debut the Eredivisie was founded.
What was Ajax's league position at that time? Weren't they 13 at the time when he made his debut 3 points off relegation zone? Didn't he give them the title the very next season being a top goalscorer in the league on top of that? Neeskens established himself first long after in the 70's first playing as a right back.
Hulshoff and Muhren established themselves after Cruyff has already made that Ajax team double champions at a tender age. Ajax were average team when Cruyff made his breakthrough. Icing on the cake is pure bollocks. Without Cruyff Ajax would never turn the same team as they were.
Do you know how many years Barca were without a title before he won it in his first season? 14 years - the biggest gap since the 30's.
On the national team - do you know how many wins had the Dutch national side before that 74 WC at the biggest stages? Zero. 0, nada. The first win at the 74 was their first win at either World Cup or EURO's.
Cruyff was the pioneer and the biggest figure in both his national team and at club level. No one comes close to him in terms of importance for the team. He was the conductor in Clockwork Orange. Without him most likely you won't ever have heard of Total Voetball as it wouldn't have been that successful.
So yeah, Cruyff not doing anything for the national team was pure bollocks as well, there was no national team before his time.
Compare to Messi. When Messi was coming into prominence he played alongside Ronaldinho - the best player in the world at that moment, in a Barca team that won the CL with abundance of talent. That and coinciding with the golden generation of the Barca academy.
I don't have an agenda here, but you surely do!
I am not ignoring his club exploits, but I don't see why its important to claim that a player is the BEST EVER to have played the sport. He is one of the 2 best players of his generation should be good enough. If we have to make such claims, you definitely can't make a player who has failed to win a single international trophy with his national team (and btw Argentina are no mugs!) the beneficiary of this claim only on the basis of his club exploits. The club team is built around him to be able to do what he does best. The national team is a fit of various players who are on the top of their game.
Anyway, I really enjoy watching Messi play. Don't want to get dragged into this debate with you. If you think he is the best ever, Kudos! I don't think you need everyone to agree with you.
Felt for him watching that. He looked so pained. I hope this doesnt scar him.. never seen him in such a state.
Pay me what Messi is making each year, put my face on the cover of everything from video games to t-shirts, and I will gladly let you put the weight of any nation on me for as long as you dam desire.
I expect more from a champion. Champion of Barca, maybe. Never once for his country.
I'd be very surprised if he doesn't play at the World Cup in 2018, even if he sticks to his retirement claim until them. The allure of one last chance would hopefully prove irresistible to him. Feel sorry for him and I hate this fascination with him having to win something at international level just because Maradona did.
I'm sorry but missing a penalty isn't choking. I've never understood that angle. Penalties are a lottery. We have seen the best players miss and the lesser players score.
I'm too young to have lived through the prime of Maradona's career and nor did I watch Boca, Barcelona and Napoli every week so it's difficult to judge to what extent that is the case. Even moreso when considering the completely different environment the club game operated in.
Wrong place then.
Here you go, knock one out!
His beard looks like it's smeared with poop.
Personally I think Messi is the greatest of all time, have said this in other threads but the idea that he "shits" all over Maradona and Pele is simply moronic.
I think thats in homage to his international performances.
He'll be back.
Many people just don't know how bad our FA institution is. And how the media blames Messi for everything.
Maradona would've been retired a couple years ago if he was Messi. He never was in Messi's shoes. He exploded in 1986 as an underdog. Argentina didn't expect to win that WC and Maradona wasn't the main man of the tournament at all. When Argentina was focused on Maradona, he sent himself off vs Brasil, in the 1982 WC.
Maradona would've been retired a couple years ago if he was Messi. He never was in Messi's shoes. He exploded in 1986 as an underdog. Argentina didn't expect to win that WC and Maradona wasn't the main man of the tournament at all. When Argentina was focused on Maradona, he sent himself off vs Brasil, in the 1982 WC.
Come on mate?
Won the golden ball, and was your best player by a mile. 5 goals, 5 assists in the tournament, one of the goals is still remembered as possibly the best of all time. You only scored 4 goals in the tournament that Maradona didn't either score or create.
Scored both of your goals in the quarters, and both of your goals in the semis.
So stop talking out of your arse.
The greatest player of our generation missing a penalty in a cup final is the very definition of choking. Like Baggio in 94:
He'll be back before the next World Cup.
If the keeper has to make a save.. yes lottery. Skying it is choking.
Penalty taking is a skill. You can miss them of course but the best takers I.e. a Zidane or Shearer turn it into an art form.