Messi retires from Argentina.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I'm not quite sure of your issue here, I think my points are quite valid and I rate Messi right up there with Pele and Maradona.

Bizarre that you appear so hurt by an critic @Akash :confused:
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Hurt? No lol

I'm sick and tired people making up nonsensical criteria to try and put the players of today down. Happens in every thread when you have same old geezers talking a pile of rubbish and accusing everyone of not watching the old guys play.

I went out of my wand watched Maradona games and it's baffling people can say he was better than Messi. He did nothing than was at Messi's level never mind better than him.
 
4 loses in major finals for your national team is going to hurt.

But for me there's no doubt that Messi is the best player in the history of the game based on a club level consistency that can not be matched not to mention a very solid career at International level too. Pele won all the world cups with Brazil but that Brazilian team were the Barcelona of their time and were a cut above everyone else. 8 La Ligas, 4 Champions league winner medals and a world record for most goals in a calendar year at a time when Real Madrid have been spending like they have a bottomless pit of cash in the last decade......are outragrous achievments from Messi
 
One thing I have learned about Messi and Ronaldo is that people love to see them fail so they can trash them.

Sad sad times.
 
The greatest sportsmen of all time.. someone like Ali. Would he quit like this over failing to win a title. It is pathetic tbh..

Akash said:
I just find these arguments utterly bizarre.

Messi is ahead of Maradona and Pele by almost every conceivable metric both in terms of trophies won and actual playing ability except the world cup. And it's not as if he's been shit either. He's lead Argentina to 3 consecutive finals while being their best player. And yet, you cannot rank him as better because he didn't win the WC.

The argument does not stand up to any scrutiny.
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He's not been shite. Agreed. But quitting like this does not reflect well on his mental toughness in adverse circumstances.

For all time great sportsmen this is such an important attribute. He doesn't need to win the world cup .. just perform like he did last time. He's been excellent in international football past few years which makes it even more bizarre he's quit now.
 
Akash said:
Hurt? No lol
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Have you seen the anger in your posts when responding to valid critique from a Messi fan who rates him right up there with Maradona and Pele? :confused:

Akash said:
I'm sick and tired people making up nonsensical criteria to try and put the players of today down. Happens in every thread when you have same old geezers talking a pile of rubbish and accusing everyone of not watching the old guys play.
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So I'm putting him down now? By saying quitting international football early and only ever playing in one team, the best in the World (in my opinion, the best even when Messi isn't in the side) leaves some question marks?

Akash said:
I went out of my wand watched Maradona games and it's baffling people can say he was better than Messi. He did nothing than was at Messi's level never mind better than him.
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I loved Maradona, and my opinion on him is swayed by the fact that he was much more entertaining to watch than Messi & could do things with a ball that Messi simply cannot. Opinions can differ @Akash and your attitude towards that needs a little work buddy.
 
Randall Flagg said:
wow

I really dont see it like that at all

I think its quite a sad story and probably a very hard decision for him to take
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Oh come on, had he scored and Argentina won last night, he wouldn't be doing this. Toys well and truly out the pram.
 
Akash said:
Hurt? No lol

I'm sick and tired people making up nonsensical criteria to try and put the players of today down. Happens in every thread when you have same old geezers talking a pile of rubbish and accusing everyone of not watching the old guys play.

I went out of my wand watched Maradona games and it's baffling people can say he was better than Messi. He did nothing than was at Messi's level never mind better than him.
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Nothing? This is a bit hysterical Akash. I'm not sure where to start with that one. How do you for example place his 1986 World Cup?
 
Summit said:
Oh come on, had he scored and Argentina won last night, he wouldn't be doing this. Toys well and truly out the pram.
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He might well have retired either way

The guy has barely missed a game for club and country for years. HE gets very few injuries

2 or so years ago he looked like he was burnt out and I didnt think he would return to his best. Luckily he did

But at 29 now, I understand his decision.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Have you seen the anger in your posts when responding to valid critique from a Messi fan who rates him right up there with Maradona and Pele? :confused:



So I'm putting him down now? By saying quitting international football early and only ever playing in one team, the best in the World (in my opinion, the best even when Messi isn't in the side) leaves some question marks?



I loved Maradona, and my opinion on him is swayed by the fact that he was much more entertaining to watch than Messi & could do things with a ball that Messi simply cannot. Opinions can differ @Akash and your attitude towards that needs a little work buddy.
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I'd put Messi behind Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Which is still top five and not that bad.

Not winning major international trophy is a blemish on his career no doubt. Especially since Brazil have been really crap in the last years and the only viable competition for the Copa is Chile.

The difference between players like Cruyff and Maradona is that they elevated much inferior teams to glory(Ajax, Argentina), while Messi played and won everything with probably the best ever team assembled.
 
Would be interesting if a poll is added; bottler? Or not?
 
Messi's a typical elitist. His retirement should hve been decided by referendum.
 
Randall Flagg said:
He might well have retired either way

The guy has barely missed a game for club and country for years. HE gets very few injuries

2 or so years ago he looked like he was burnt out and I didnt think he would return to his best. Luckily he did

But at 29 now, I understand his decision.
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If retiring was on his mind before and the decision was made, then no doubt we would have heard before that game that it would be his last. Snap decision for me, and one that comes across like he's a spoilt little kid. If a certain someone else did the same at 29, he would be slated for acting like a prima dona/Diva/spoilt etc.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I loved Maradona, and my opinion on him is swayed by the fact that he was much more entertaining to watch than Messi & could do things with a ball that Messi simply cannot. Opinions can differ @Akash and your attitude towards that needs a little work buddy.
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How was he more entertaining to watch? And what could he do that Messi couldn't?

People say the same thing about Ronaldinho in comparison to Messi as well (My personal favourite player). The simple truth is Messi is ridiculously consistent at doing amazing things that people have gotten a bit bored of him and how good he is.
 
Summit said:
If retiring was on his mind before and the decision was made, then no doubt we would have heard before that game that it would be his last. Snap decision for me, and one that comes across like he's a spoilt little kid. If a certain someone else did the same at 29, he would be slated for acting like a prima dona/Diva/spoil etc.
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No I doubt he would have revealed his intentions

I dont think he would enjoy the extra attention on the game if people knew it might be his last

You are clearly talking out your arse if you think thats what you think he is really like. Far more likely he is sick of the pressure and having his countries hopes on his shoulders. I cant imagine he enjoys the constant Maradona comparisons either.
 
Gio said:
Nothing? This is a bit hysterical Akash. I'm not sure where to start with that one. How do you for example place his 1986 World Cup?
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I'm talking about their abilities as players not performances across a world cup. Granted, Maradona has done more for the NT (albeit the scale of his achievements are often exaggerated) but even there Messi has hardly been shite. Purely as players, yes, I don't see a single area where Maradona is better. Dribbler, passer, scorer? Nope.
 
Randall Flagg said:
No I doubt he would have revealed his intentions

I dont think he would enjoy the extra attention on the game if people knew it might be his last

You are clearly talking out your arse if you think thats what you think he is really like. Far more likely he is sick of the pressure and having his countries hopes on his shoulders. I cant imagine he enjoys the constant Maradona comparisons either.
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Sorry but all the top stars have weight on their shoulders for their National team and Messi is no different. If that is something he can't deal with, then perhaps giving up is probably the best decision he can make.

As for the bit talking out my arse, sorry but this is how he comes across. I like Messi and imo he is the greatest footballer ever, but my point still stands in which you ignored. If a certain someone else did this at 29 he would be laughed at on this forum from a great height.
 
I blame Maradona, who doesn't allow Messi back to the home after failing to win the Cup.
 
Akash said:
How was he more entertaining to watch? And what could he do that Messi couldn't?

People say the same thing about Ronaldinho in comparison to Messi as well (My personal favourite player). The simple truth is Messi is ridiculously consistent at doing amazing things that people have gotten a bit bored of him and how good he is.
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Agreed, Messi is ridiculously consistent, almost robot like, and that's why I rate him right up there.

I'm not quite sure how I can explain why I find Maradona more entertaining to watch, it's all in the eye of the beholder, the closest I can describe is that he had more flair and unpredictability. You almost know what Messi is going to do, and it'll be excellent and consistent, as I said above, almost robot-like.
 
Raees said:
The greatest sportsmen of all time.. someone like Ali. Would he quit like this over failing to win a title. It is pathetic tbh..



He's not been shite. Agreed. But quitting like this does not reflect well on his mental toughness in adverse circumstances.

For all time great sportsmen this is such an important attribute. He doesn't need to win the world cup .. just perform like he did last time. He's been excellent in international football past few years which makes it even more bizarre he's quit now.
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Why play for an organisation and nation that doesn't value you and as soon as you lose a final on penalties, a wrath of criticism comes your way. I wouldn't want to play anymore either.
 
Akash said:
I'm talking about their abilities as players not performances across a world cup. Granted, Maradona has done more for the NT (albeit the scale of his achievements are often exaggerated) but even there Messi has hardly been shite. Purely as players, yes, I don't see a single area where Maradona is better. Dribbler, passer, scorer? Nope.
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Maradona had more spunk.
 
sammyvine said:
One thing I have learned about Messi and Ronaldo is that people love to see them fail so they can trash them.

Sad sad times.
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It's not about loving to see them fail. I for one really enjoy watching Messi despite the club he plays for. What irks a lot of people are over-the-top fanboys and deluded self-proclaimed football experts who are so quick to proclaim one player or the other to be the best ever and laughing off every suggestion that it may not be as straightforward and berating everyone who challenges their opinions. I daresay that Messi and Ronaldo would be much more loved and respected had there not been all this PR and social networks to constantly hype them up.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Agreed, Messi is ridiculously consistent, almost robot like, and that's why I rate him right up there.

I'm not quite sure how I can explain why I find Maradona more entertaining to watch, it's all in the eye of the beholder, the closest I can describe is that he had more flair and unpredictability. You almost know what Messi is going to do, and it'll be excellent and consistent, as I said above, almost robot-like.
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Maradonna was robot like as well. I don't see how he differs from Messi. Dribbling like Messi was his main attribute. He rarely used tricks to go past players.
 
I think he will be back for the World Cup. 29 is way too young to for him to give up trying to win something with Argentina
 
Dreadnought said:
It's not about loving to see them fail. I for one really enjoy watching Messi despite the club he plays for. What irks a lot of people are over-the-top fanboys and deluded self-proclaimed football experts who are so quick to proclaim one player or the other to be the best ever and laughing off every suggestion that it may not be as straightforward and berating everyone who challenges their opinions.
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Then you need to quit watching football altogether because fanboys will always exist in sports. It's just how it is.
You can't knock a player for having loyal fans.
 
Summit said:
Sorry but all the top stars have weight on their shoulders for their National team and Messi is no different. If that is something he can't deal with, then perhaps giving up is probably the best decision he can make.

As for the bit talking out my arse, sorry but this is how he comes across. I like Messi and imo he is the greatest footballer ever, but my point still stands in which you ignored. If a certain someone else did this at 29 he would be laughed at on this forum from a great height.
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That certain someone has proved time and time again he is an attention seeking whore. So if he did retire early with the best intentions he would probably get slated unfairly

I would argue Messi has far, far more pressure on his shoulders than any other player in the world when playing for Argentina

Even more than Ronaldo in 1998, and we saw what happened to him back then
 
sammyvine said:
Then you need to quit watching football altogether because fanboys will always exist in sports. It's just how it is.
You can't knock a player for having loyal fans.
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I have just said I am not knocking him and actually enjoy watching him play. Loyal fans are one thing, what I am talking about is something else.
 
Randall Flagg said:
That certain someone has proved time and time again he is an attention seeking whore. So if he did retire early with the best intentions he would probably get slated unfairly

I would argue Messi has far, far more pressure on his shoulders than any other player in the world when playing for Argentina

Even more than Ronaldo in 1998, and we saw what happened to him back then
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Enigma_87 said:
I'd put Messi behind Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and Beckenbauer. Which is still top five and not that bad.

Not winning major international trophy is a blemish on his career no doubt. Especially since Brazil have been really crap in the last years and the only viable competition for the Copa is Chile.

The difference between players like Cruyff and Maradona is that they elevated much inferior teams to glory(Ajax, Argentina), while Messi played and won everything with probably the best ever team assembled.
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Ajax an inferior team? No offence but you clearly don't know anything about our clubs history. There is a reason that our team in the 70s is ranked as #1 greatest club team by multiple football magazines. Our Ajax team were the Barcelona of that era. Cruijff elevated us and was the icing on the cake much like Messi is for Barcelona.

As for inferior players, Piet Keizer was the best winger in the world, Krol was one of the best LB, Neesken's was one of the best cms, Hulshoff and Muhren were all world class players. Surrubier was the only technical weakness on that team and perhaps Stuy. The team was great because the system we played under made the whole greater than the sum of its part.

What about Cruijff not doing anything with our NT? He didn't have to adapt in 74 because Michels used exactly the same system that Cruijff was a part of for 3 years where we won everything. What about Cruijffs Euro 76? He then retired before 78 and we reached the final without him did we not?

I agree about Maradona but that wc was a few games. Messi has outperformed him at club level to the point where there is no comparison and Napoli were the man City of their time. In fact I remember Milan fans complaining that they were trying to buy the league.

It's getting strange where people want to see Messi and CR fail at international level. Very strange stuff. You would think either of these 2 men have committed heinous crimes.
 
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Really didn't expect this news this morning. Hoping he does a u-turn in a few months.

I thought he had a very good Copa, really showed his magic in most games. Such a shame.

Whether it affects his legacy or not, I can still comfortably say that he's the best club player to ever play.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Agreed, Messi is ridiculously consistent, almost robot like, and that's why I rate him right up there.

I'm not quite sure how I can explain why I find Maradona more entertaining to watch, it's all in the eye of the beholder, the closest I can describe is that he had more flair and unpredictability. You almost know what Messi is going to do, and it'll be excellent and consistent, as I said above, almost robot-like.
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Personally, the unpredictability and flair can again be put down to the fact Messi is inhumanely consistent. People don't even bother bringing up his mazy dribbles or fifa like through balls anymore. Maradona wasn't as consistent and hence the unpredictability factor. Same with Ronaldinho.
 
Akash said:
Personally, the unpredictability and flair can again be put down to the fact Messi is inhumanely consistent. People don't even bother bringing up his mazy dribbles or fifa like through balls anymore. Maradona wasn't as consistent and hence the unpredictability factor. Same with Ronaldinho.
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4-5 posts in a Messi thread this morning and I've already decided I won't be entering into one again. Some people's reactions to stuff are bizarre.

Quite obviously Ronaldinho had a shit load more flair than Messi, but quite obviously he was nowhere near the player. Anyway, I'm out of here, with serious regrets.
 
Akash said:
I'm talking about their abilities as players not performances across a world cup. Granted, Maradona has done more for the NT (albeit the scale of his achievements are often exaggerated) but even there Messi has hardly been shite. Purely as players, yes, I don't see a single area where Maradona is better. Dribbler, passer, scorer? Nope.
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It gets very subjective deciding who the better dribbler or passer between the two was. They are probably the two greatest dribblers of all time: all of this clear daylight between the two you mention just seems hard to fathom. Same for passing - they are both right at the top there as well. As a goalscorer, Messi's record for Barcelona is very persuasive and having also played more advanced during his club career, I would agree with you there.

There are other areas you've not touched upon though. Maradona's leadership, influence and force of personality really catapulted him away from the two other truly great players of the 1980s in Zico and Platini.
 
This could just be another master-stroke from Messi. He was poised to bear the brunt of the Argentina press for skying his penalty (it was quite bad tbh). Came out and said - screw it, let me retire from international football. Then let's see what these guys think.

Unfortunately, this also shows a lot of petulance on his part. The best players in the World find a way to win, or keep trying! You DON'T throw in the towel.
 
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