Whilst you make a habit of cheering on Real Madrid rather than root for the opponent?
Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
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Messi made himself pretty easy to mark in all honesty. Maybe he just is not fit. If Argentina win they will have their defense to thank more than anything, despite all their attacking talent.
He's not on here commenting on Real Madrid at every turn. You do just that with Messi. That's why you're the laughing stock of this forum.
One player lead his country to the world cup final, the other was eliminated in the group stages after missing 6 sitters that would have put his side through to the knockout stage.
Enjoy watching the BPITW
It's the ambling thing that I find inexplicable. Can't recall him even breaking into a sprint. Is it injury? No more Fuentes?! He's definitely lost something.
If I was a stalker like you, which I'm not and I don't, over a player you claim to have no obsession over yet you're always there...like herpes
Messi normally walks around a lot in games but when there is an attack he comes alive. He's been like this at Barcelona for the last two years, I think that is why you rarely see him get injured. His form isn't the best in this tournament despite scoring four, I thought he was better in 2010 he was just missing goals. I think Germany will be very tricky, they weren't even at full throttle when they defeated Brazil which they could of won 10-0 if they wanted. I can see Germany winning 4-1 or more.
No offence Mockney, but that's not entirely accurate.
Both sides were in good form before this tournament, especially in qualifying. Germans are ranked 2nd and Argentinians ranked 5th in the world.
Just because 1 team has struggled to click during the tournament - they wouldn't be worthy winners? Before the Brazil result, the Germans weren't exactly setting the tournament alight either.
For what it's worth - the Germans head into the final as favourites, and rightfully so. But to dismiss the Argentinian side because they've been "winning while playing badly" is nonsense.
edit: unless of course your response was directed at "fanbois" only.
Erm, yes. I want the tournament won by the best people in the tournament. England have always had great qualifying records and a decent FIFA ranking. I'd never use that as a reason they deserve to win the actual thing.
Have they not been winning while playing badly?
Apart from thrashing Portugal, and playing a fantastic game with Ghana, and winning the group of Death, and beating France.
They were amongst the best performing teams in the early rounds. They've had one poor game against Algeria.
Well yes, it's largely directed at people who want Argentina to win BECAUSE of Messi. Which would preclude Argentinians or those with a great affinity for Argentinian football. But then also because I can't really see another reason why you would want Argentina to win it after the tournament's both teams have had. Unless you really dislike Germany of course.
I see it quite a lot like the Spain vs Holland match of last year. One I'd consider a deserving winner, and one who'd I'd consider a poor winner.
I'd always hope for the deserving winners because poor winners slightly undervalue the tournament for me.
Again, for me. This is entirely my opinion of course.
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Messi winning it is a good narrative. Germany are a better team. Nowt wrong with wanting either to win.
Well IMO there is. Wanting the better team to lose the World Cup for the sake of one player's status makes you no better than a One Direction fan.
Again, it's just my opinion. But I will judge you. And judge you harshly.
Nowt wrong with being a big silly girl.
Spain in 2010 are not too dissimilar to Argentina in this WC, IMO. Struggling to play anywhere near their best due to opposing teams' defensive tactics and unable to get their best players to play anywhere near their peak level. Germany are more entertaining, attractive and impressive at all levels than both teams.
I'd like to say I saw Argentina put on a masterful display in the Maracana to win the World Cup and round off the greatest humiliation in football history myself. Messi turning on the style for yet another final would be something I'd welcome as well.
I'd like to say I saw Argentina put on a masterful display in the Maracana to win the World Cup and round off the greatest humiliation in football history myself. Messi turning on the style for yet another final would be something I'd welcome as well.
Nah, fair fecks dude, it's only one's opinion but yours is always respected. You say it as it is.
I'm not trying to justify their rankings or qualifying record as a reason as to why they should win it. I'm saying football they've played this tournament hasn't been anywhere near what they're capable of & maybe there's reason for it, maybe not. But you can't just dismiss them as unworthy winners because, what, the Germans turned it on for 1 or 2 matches this tournament?
The highlighted bit is spot on, that's what I said. Isn't the mark of a decent side being able to win while playing badly? I know we would all prefer the eventual winners to just kind of play amazing football on their way to the title, but that's not always the case.
I get your point about wanting the best side to win the tournament, especially if you're fairly neutral. It's logical and makes sense. I just don't think the Argentinian side is as poor as they've shown. But I guess we only have the world cup games to base that on, so that's the reality.
In short....I'm just hoping for a great final and may the best team win.
Oh I agree. And I think it's unrealistic to expect them too. You play 7 games in quick succession at the end of the domestic season. It's mental to expect thrashings and great performances every game. People are tired.
And I don't think Argentina are a bad side. But they have played badly. And thus their winners highlight reel in years to come will be dull and uninspiring. Which is why I don't want them to win.
Germany have just been better. Much better. I want that better side to win it. So we can look back on what I've considered a great World Cup and go "yep, the best team won that." Like in 1970 or whatever.
The Messi narrative is interesting. And I'm a bit swayed by it. I just don't think it's nearly enough.
My response doesn't make sense anymore.
People often want the better team to lose, for a variety of reasons. World Cups a bit of an exhibition, it's a knockout cup, allows for better teams to be beat by inferior ones, and Messi winning would be a good story. Individuals are important in football, just look at the majority of discussions on the Caf.
I get it if it was an actual underdog. But Argentina aren't even an underdog. They're a big football powerhouse with the best player in the World, who just so happen to have played really boringly.
I just find it a really weak reason personally. This is the World Cup. Not the Ballon D'or.
Others will disagree. And I reserve the right to call them dickheads.
There's a gazillion people constantly rooting for underdogs for no reason whatsoever other than them not being favorites. Have you never been one of them?
EDIT: And per your response above, of course Argentina is an underdog. In a sense, because everyone considers Germany favourites. They're not massive underdogs, so they are not being massively backed. But they are underdogs, and that alone justifies many people wanting Germany to lose.
90 goals a year is simply in relation to the amount of games he played. His ratio is no better than the ratios of the likes of Pele, Muller, and Eusebio in their best goal scoring years. Mind you, he also achieved that feat in the year he failed to lead barca to anything and there wasn't any big int games that year.
His goal scoring isn't unique. Muller, pele, cristiano, puskas and eusebio all scored at this rate. Saying his club side was the greatest side ever smacks of ignorance. Some are so quick to call him the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel that they lose all sense of perspective. Other sides achieved even more than his barca team.
What is unique to him is how he's failed to carry that form into the international stage. He's slightly worse than a 1 in 2 scorer on that stage, which is quite remarkable. He's led argentina into a world cup final without being the stand out player at the tournament. Failed in another world cup at the very peak of his powers. Failed at the copa america at the peak of his powers. Greatest ever? How?
Stop harping on about him at 21 as if its something that's never been seen. Pele was 17 when he was voted 2nd best player at a world cup, at 21 he was already a legend. Ronaldo at 21 was already the best player in the world. Infact, all those players at the age of 21 were already doing remarkable things, more remarkable than messi in some instances.
By 27 plenty players were legends too. Pele was footballs god by then, cruyff was total football incarnate, already had 3 european cup titles, and 3 ballon d'ors in a row, maradona had just done something no one else ever did, etc etc etc.
Is he one of the greats? Obviously but there are even more obvious questions to his legend and where he features in the list of the greatest to have played the game. Questiong he has failed to answer
Agreed with you on that. Like I said, it's the logical/reasoned/neutral choice.
On the bolded bit. That 1 has me thinking as well. He was almost anonymous last night, but the tactics of both sides literally nullified even (arguably the BPOTWC) Robben.
Up to the QF round, Messi's literally carried them that far. It would be quite a narrative if he showed up in the final to lead his team to glory.
But it's a team sport and as you mentioned, the Germans have been a much better team, in all aspects & their team, would be deserving winners.
Still, I can't help think that if di Maria's fit and I doubt the Germans will park the bus (tbf, its what most teams have done against the Argies) - we could be in for a cracker.
But supporting Messi isn't supporting an underdog. It's supporting one player (who definitely isn't an underdog) for his own personal achievement.
People want him to win it so he becomes the GOAT. It's a sideshow for me. Little to actually do with the World Cup.
A great final is by far the most important thing, I agree. It would be a huge shame if this World Cup was capped by a poor one. I'd be happy for Argentina to win a pulsating 5-4 with Messi scoring a hat trick.
But at this point, I'm rooting against them.
By his very high standards I don't think Messi has had a great World Cup. He scored two really nice goals in the opening 2 games and then he was fantastic in the last group game against Nigeria, by far his best performance in this World Cup.
In the Knockouts he's drifted in and out of games and last night he did nothing for the last 60 or 70 minutes of the game. Obviously if he scores the winner in the final all of that will be forgotten. I agree with Mockney in that I'd rather Germany win, they've been the best team in the tournament.
In the Knockouts he's drifted in and out of games and last night he did nothing for the last 60 or 70 minutes of the game. Obviously if he scores the winner in the final all of that will be forgotten. I agree with Mockney in that I'd rather Germany win, they've been the best team in the tournament.
That just makes you the sad old bloke in the corner going on about being a "real football fan".
You're talking about Messi fans there, people who are desperate to watch him succeed. So it's natural they root for his team. If they like Messi more than anyone on the German side, what's incoherent about them wanting him to win? Is football now suddenly a game of logic and not emotion anymore?
I like Messi, but couldn't give a shit if he wins the world cup. I would want Argentina to win even if he was out of the tournament injured. I would back any team in the world against this Germany. Because they won 7-1 against Brazil. Just that (not really, Angela Merkel celebrating is also something I can't see).
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messi doesnt have valdano and burruchaga to recieve his passes
yesterday and against belgium it was painfull to see how messi had the ball, looked up to see who to pass it too, only to find that non of our offensive players were running to recieve the ball freely, so he had to do another move to try to set his players in position
plus he is not playing in messi role, he is playing in iniesta rol, or even in xavi rol, and he is doing it very well
I want Messi to win the WorldCup so all this 'he needs to win a WorldCup' talk is gonna be over. Dude at 27 already won 4 Ballon D'ors, 3 CL's (?), international record for most goals in 1 year, scored goals against almost every big club in Europe in big matches except Chelsea, so a WorldCup would just make it complete.
I do agree with Mockney that those who want Argentina to win purely because of Messi are weird and annoying, but then if Messi loses you'll have people jumping for joy about that as well. It's lose-lose when it comes to the obsessions with individuals in sports so all you can do is ignore it. Just have a look at the Wimbledon thread being dominated by yet another tedious Nadal-Federer argument just hours after a great final which didn't even involve personal success for either player.
You need to take more then just his goalscoring into account. That's the beauty of it all.
And also, he's been 1 of the outstanding players of this WC.
Higuain and Lavezzi did far more running off the ball than Messi did to try and create space and passing angles for their team mates. I agree it's unfortunate that none of the attackers were in top form but part of that is because they spend so much time making selfless runs to benefit Messi.
To compare what Messi is doing to Xavi's role is an insult to Xavi, IMO.
why Maradona didn't have to win champions league but Messi needs to win world cup? simple question.
The obvious answer is Maradona didn't play for a club side capable of winning a European Cup while Messi does play for a national team capable of winning the World Cup.
That would be errr...an inaccurate answer.
One thing that boggles me is people still bringing Ronaldo and Messi's international scoring records as slights on them. That's expected, not surprising. They play week-in-week-out in teams that don't bat an eyelid in spending +40m on a bench warmer or to cover the slightest of unbalances on the team. What's surprising about them being more productive in this setting than in a NT one with all the restrictions that apply?
People have completely forgotten that football is a team sport. That's incredibly sad.
People have completely forgotten that football is a team sport. That's incredibly sad.
Totally agree. Its a shame that a peak Messi didn't play in the 2006 world cup side... I think the tempo and style of that side would have brought the best out of him. He is clearly at the moment not the same player he was physically. He has barely any stamina, but even so he showed he is on a different level to Robben and even took on more players last night...
Plus side - he doesn't seem phased by the international stage, looks pretty calm and composed on the ball .. abit too composed, got tackled from behind a fair bit due to not noticing people running in behind him
Negative - lack of express pace and energy, he isn't dictating the tempo due to not having enough energy to move into pockets of space and direct the game, he's waiting for the game to come to him. Reminds me of a much more talented version of Rooney.
I think Messi needs a massive kick up the ass, otherwise he may not age as well as people think... Maradona in 90 had lost his pace, but he was still energetic.
interesting. every time I see people discussing about Maradona and his days in Napoli, italian league is always mentioned as the ultimate test of player ability and the strongest european league, but now you say that the champions of that league can't be competetive in Europe. maybe I'm missing something, but that doesn't make any sense.
maradona played for barcelona
I don't want Argentina to win just because of Messi. But I'd love to him turn it on in the final and win the game for them against the odds. I think that'd be a more compelling footballing spectacle than a Germany win. And he'll have earned the accolades from doing that.
Of course, if he's gonna jog around and not strutting his stuff, then by all means, let's have a Germany win. They've earned it.
Of course, if he's gonna jog around and not strutting his stuff, then by all means, let's have a Germany win. They've earned it.
It's pretty clear that Argentina are capable of winning the World Cup so which of Maradona's teams do you think were capable of winning a European Cup? Napoli, a team who have only made it past the first round twice in their history? When Maradona was at his peak they came up against a brilliant Madrid side in the first round, and by the time it got to '89 he was already on the decline after being kicked to pieces (as you saw in the '90 WC). Barcelona didn't compete in the European Cup when he was there because they won just one title in the 80s.
Maradona won the UEFA Cup which meant he succeeded on the European level. Messi for me has now succeeded on an international level by reaching the final.
I suppose the fact that it's been a particularly good World Cup contributes to it a lot. I'd be less bothered if it'd been a crap one. But it's been such a good one, for posterities sake, I'd like it to be won by the best side. The free scoring, most team driven one. People still moan about great World Cups that weren't won by the best sides (Brazil 82, Holland 74) I'd ideally like this to be remembered as one of the greats, and I consider that the last stumbling block.
Before the tournament started I would've much prefered Argentina to Germany as it happens, but as it's played out, I feel its been a competition Argentina have somehow managed to contribute very little to despite getting to the final. Their biggest contribution to 2050's "Best moments from Brazil 14" so far has been Messi vs Iran. Which even on paper sounds pretty wet.
Though such is the nature of internet arguments, it seems like I care more than I do. I don't really. As @Ish84045 said, if Argentina win a stunning final, that's all that matters. I still won't think they've deserved it (No, the "anyone who wins deserves it" stuff doesn't fly. It's a 7 game knock out comp. Greece didn't deserve 04) but I'll certainly be very happy with the outcome.
Yeah. I think Twitter was getting to me. A lot of people on my timeline were posting pictures of Messi and silly over the top "judgement day" type rhetoric after the final whistle. That's probably whats tipped me into FFFUUUUUUUUU stance.
messi was never able to pass the ball to higuain and lavezzi
that's why sabella subbed them for palacio -he recieved a great pass from messi- and maxi -he recieved a great pass from messi
and i wasnt comparing messi to xavi, i ment to say he was trying to play like xavi, that's why i said "role"
That bit is actually true. You always sound pretty invested in your discussions
Sweet 'ol Mockney! That last bit drives me nuts as well. There's such a huge expectation on Messi to deliver - no wonder whatever he does is a let down
Yeah, in the end, I just hope Argentina show up, so too the Germans, and we can have a proper end to end attacking slugfest and end the WC in the manner in which it began - GOALLLLAZO!. No overly complicated tactics to stop the opposition from playing etc.
May the best team win.