Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!

.... yeh so, back to Messi. Maradona shone mostly in the latter stages of the tournament in 1986, it was the England and Belgium games where he really left his mark, in total contributed to 10 of Argentina's 14 goals.

So far, Messi has dragged his team to the knockouts without really over-exerting himself. Scored two of their three goals, both game winners through his own sheer brilliance, and the other an own goal via his free kick.

Performance wise so far? Not quite at the races, but head and shoulders above his team mates. I've a feeling he'll kick it up a gear as soon as the knockouts start, and hopefully so does Di Maria and Aguero.
 
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T.banty10 said:
You can't force your opinion on me brah.
For me, there's nothing Messi did that Totti can't, except not being in one of the greatest team of all time. Also, Totti's technique is never depended on pace or quick burst.
If anyone can't stand my preference, they can go nut for all I care.
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Actually Totti himself doesn't agree with you on this

"There is only one player who is doing things that I could never do and that is Messi," -- quote from Totti

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/86/italy/2013/03/28/3859422/totti-only-messi-is-better-than-me


And Totti isn't exactly the most humble person on earth. He also said this "
"I do not think there is an Italian footballer who I would place above myself in a list, though."
 
T.banty10 said:
You can't force your opinion on me brah.
For me, there's nothing Messi did that Totti can't, except not being in one of the greatest team of all time. Also, Totti's technique is never depended on pace or quick burst.
If anyone can't stand my preference, they can go nut for all I care.
Click to expand...

I just went nut, totally worth it.
 
T.banty10 said:
Those are only names that ring a bell in me, meaning they were the only names that's still being mentioned today as legend eventhough I didn't watch them play.
And as a matter of fact, they were also in their 30's at that time, save for Walter Samuel. That means they went downhill in the subsequent years. Also, Totti played more like a playmaker than a forward, that year.
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Aldair, who played in two world cup finals for brazil, winning it in 1994, one of only 11 roma players to be in their hall of fame, who had his number retired when he left roma in 2003.
Candela who played in the 1998 world cup for france, 2000 euros, and 2002 world cup, winning the world cup and euro.
Emerson, arguably the best DMF in the world in his time, who played for Roma, Juventus, Real Madrid, and Milan. He played in the 1998 world cup finals for brazil, was the captain for brazil in 2002 (prior to injury forcing him out of the tournament), and the 2006 world cup.
Nakata, Japan's greatest ever player? He was a terrific terrific attacking midfielder and it's ridiculous that you don't know who he is. Pele named him in his top 100 living players at the time.
Assuncao, great deep defensive player, always one of the best set piece takers in the world, and a great passer of the ball from deep.
d'agostino, young at the time, but a very very talented and technically skilled deep lying midfielder that provided depth

delvecchio, roma's top scorer in 1998.
Montella, Roma's top scorer for 3 seasons and an italian international player? scored almost 200 goals in his career which is very respectable. In his entire career he had a goals ratio of a goal every other game, which is terrific.

And then you add the pathetically low amount of players you actually knew, Cafu and Batistuta, and that makes a damn ferocious squad.


T.banty10 said:
And as a matter of fact, they were also in their 30's at that time, save for Walter Samuel. That means they went downhill in the subsequent years. Also, Totti played more like a playmaker than a forward, that year.
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pretty shitty fact.

Montella was 26
Emerson was 25
Cafu was 30
Nakata was 23
Assuncao was 24
Candela was 27
D'agostino was 19
Delvecchio was 27

your talking out of your ass and look so damn stupid. you have no clue what you're talking about you moron.

T.banty10 said:
Those are only names that ring a bell in me, meaning they were the only names that's still being mentioned today as legend eventhough I didn't watch them play.
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no, they don't ring a bell because you're some irreputable no name that hasn't watched more then a year or two of football at best. And that's being seriously generous, i doubt you're more then a few monthes experienced with the game given that you can't recognize some of those names.
 
milan4ever said:
Actually Totti himself doesn't agree with you on this

"There is only one player who is doing things that I could never do and that is Messi," -- quote from Totti

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/86/italy/2013/03/28/3859422/totti-only-messi-is-better-than-me


And Totti isn't exactly the most humble person on earth. He also said this "
"I do not think there is an Italian footballer who I would place above myself in a list, though."
Click to expand...
Of course, he didn't score tons of goal. But his technique is better than Messi.
 
TheShedEnd said:
.... yeh so, back to Messi. Maradona shone mostly in the latter stages of the tournament in 1986, it was the England and Belgium games where he really left his mark, in total contributed to 10 of Argentina's 14 goals.
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He was outstanding in the group stages as well, outrageously good really.
 
Totti GOAT Italian. They wasted him Italy, but he still got them a World Cup.....Pirlo and no Totti? Two first round exits. Star, up front, false 9, am, playmaker, he could do it all.
 
T.banty10 said:
Of course, he didn't score tons of goal. But his technique is better than Messi.
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In certain aspects maybe, but Messi's technique is far more consistent as a whole. I would probably agree with rating Totti's playmaking higher -- by how much is up for debate. Personally I'd say it's a slight difference.
 
Malva said:
Aldair, who played in two world cup finals for brazil, winning it in 1994, one of only 11 roma players to be in their hall of fame, who had his number retired when he left roma in 2003.
Candela who played in the 1998 world cup for france, 2000 euros, and 2002 world cup, winning the world cup and euro.
Emerson, arguably the best DMF in the world in his time, who played for Roma, Juventus, Real Madrid, and Milan. He played in the 1998 world cup finals for brazil, was the captain for brazil in 2002 (prior to injury forcing him out of the tournament), and the 2006 world cup.
Nakata, Japan's greatest ever player? He was a terrific terrific attacking midfielder and it's ridiculous that you don't know who he is. Pele named him in his top 100 living players at the time.
Assuncao, great deep defensive player, always one of the best set piece takers in the world, and a great passer of the ball from deep.
d'agostino, young at the time, but a very very talented and technically skilled deep lying midfielder that provided depth

delvecchio, roma's top scorer in 1998.
Montella, Roma's top scorer for 3 seasons and an italian international player? scored almost 200 goals in his career which is very respectable. In his entire career he had a goals ratio of a goal every other game, which is terrific.

And then you add the pathetically low amount of players you actually knew, Cafu and Batistuta, and that makes a damn ferocious squad.




pretty shitty fact.

Montella was 26
Emerson was 25
Cafu was 30
Nakata was 23
Assuncao was 24
Candela was 27
D'agostino was 19
Delvecchio was 27

your talking out of your ass and look so damn stupid. you have no clue what you're talking about you moron.



no, they don't ring a bell because you're some irreputable no name that hasn't watched more then a year or two of football at best. And that's being seriously generous, i doubt you're more then a few monthes experienced with the game given that you can't recognize some of those names.
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The awkward moment when I realize most important players you kept mentioning were DM, as if they contribute much to the attacks. Emerson, Aldair, Cadela, Cafu were all defensive unit in which 2 of them were aging. Nakata and D'agostino weren't in the squad the following year and if having 77 goals in 269 appereances is a worldclass stats for a striker in the case of Delvecchio, then every striker out there has hope. Only Montella has a say in the attacking unit.
How about you forgetting to mention Totti was deployed as a playmaker in his earliest career, even in this your 'great team? Picking out suitable point for ourself, are we?
 
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Revan said:
The number of appearance of Fat 'The Crock' Ronaldo for Real Madrid (counting only the years when he played with Zidane):
2002-2003 44
2003-2004 48
2004-2005 45
2005-2006 27

Only 12 games less than Zidane (average 3 games less than Zidane for year). Not bad for a crock, eh?
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As starters or sub?
 
Lionel Messi is a very good player but I feel like he has been the product of the Barca system and his subpar performances at the World Cups have proven my theory correct. Cristiano Ronaldo had to carry the Manchester United squad on his back during his days here, Messi never had to carry any team. If you take out Ronaldo and Messi and pit the best possible Portugal team over the last 8 years against the best possible Argentina team over the last 8 years. Argentina will win 4-0.
Look at a player like Klose who have clearly outperformed Messi to a shocking degree but because he's not a 'media darling' he never got the hype of Messi and will go down as one of the great under rated players of our generation. I'm not saying that Messi isn't a very good player, I'm saying that he isn't a GREAT player. There is tiers to that.

Great Players(over the last 5 years) Ronaldo/Xavi/Iniesta
Very Good Players(over the last 5 Years) Messi/Suarez/Robben/Bastin/

Messi is able to elevate himself into that first tier because of the system. The Barca system is build for a small agile mover like Messi to excel in. He wouldn't do well at all in a Manchester or Liverpool system. The system of hard ball. He's just not big enough from a physical standpoint. But I hope he does well at this World Cup. I always root for the little guys!
 
Neymar has been the best player in the tournament that isn't named Robben.
 
Brwned said:
Muller didn't turn games around irrespective of his team-mates' performances? 4 European Cup campaigns, 4 EC Final goals. 3 International tournament semi-finals (well, the 1974 WC equivalent), 5 goals. Two international tournament finals, 3 goals. And it's not like they were spread out throughout his career, they're just one after another. And I can assure you that his team were the inferior side in some of those games and wouldn't have won it without him.
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Never watched Muller, might be wrong about him but from the clips I watched, he looks more like a forward who's mostly dependent on his team mates' fashioning chances for him.
 
I think Totti is clearly the better playmaker, his passing is outrageously good. Certainly better than Messi there IMO.

Saying he's more talented than Messi is really, really extreme though - but I think that is more a case of under rating Messi than overrating Totti. Messi's the most talented player since original Ronaldo, the ease with which he runs with the ball just radiates talent. He's such a natural footballer - much more so than Cristiano, who would be a fairer shout in comparison to Totti. Most people would disagree but I don't think that would be a silly view.

I think Malva went really OTT on the quality of that Scudetto winning Roma team as well.. D'Agostino :confused:...

They had a good, but not outstanding defence and Emerson was probably a better played than he gets credit for - though let's not forget, Emerson didn't even play much in that season because he was injured. Batigol had his last fantastic season and combined with Totti and the wingbacks made the side what it was, but someone like Delvecchio was just a good player and nothing to shout about at this level. Totti clearly didn't play with in a Roma side in the same league as Messi at Barca.
 
Skorenzy said:
In certain aspects maybe, but Messi's technique is far more consistent as a whole. I would probably agree with rating Totti's playmaking higher -- by how much is up for debate. Personally I'd say it's a slight difference.
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I prefer Totti's techniques and style of play though. It's my personal preference.
 
Theon said:
I think Totti is clearly the better playmaker, his passing is outrageously good. Certainly better than Messi there IMO.

Saying he's more talented than Messi is really, really extreme though - but I think that is more a case of under rating Messi than overrating Totti. Messi's the most talented player since original Ronaldo, the ease with which he runs with the ball just radiates talent. He's such a natural footballer - much more so than Cristiano, who would be a fairer shout in comparison to Totti. Most people would disagree but I don't think that would be a silly view.

I think Malva went really OTT on the quality of that Scudetto winning Roma team as well.. D'Agostino :confused:...

They had a good, but not outstanding defence and Emerson was probably a better played than he gets credit for - though let's not forget, Emerson didn't even play much in that season because he was injured. Batigol had his last fantastic season and combined with Totti and the wingbacks made the side what it was, but someone like Delvecchio was just a good player and nothing to shout about at this level. Totti clearly didn't play with in a Roma side in the same league as Messi at Barca.
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never suggested that. just saying it was a great team. i like d'agostino as well, he's had a nice little career in italy and has alot of nice qualities, he's a classy technically high quality player. Tbanty suggesting that simply because he didn't know the players of roma, this equaled them being not worthy players... that's a pretty pathetic logic.
 
Theon said:
I think Totti is clearly the better playmaker, his passing is outrageously good. Certainly better than Messi there IMO.

Saying he's more talented than Messi is really, really extreme though - but I think that is more a case of under rating Messi than overrating Totti. Messi's the most talented player since original Ronaldo, the ease with which he runs with the ball just radiates talent. He's such a natural footballer - much more so than Cristiano, who would be a fairer shout in comparison to Totti. Most people would disagree but I don't think that would be a silly view.

I think Malva went really OTT on the quality of that Scudetto winning Roma team as well.. D'Agostino :confused:...

They had a good, but not outstanding defence and Emerson was probably a better played than he gets credit for - though let's not forget, Emerson didn't even play much in that season because he was injured. Batigol had his last fantastic season and combined with Totti and the wingbacks made the side what it was, but someone like Delvecchio was just a good player and nothing to shout about at this level. Totti clearly didn't play with in a Roma side in the same league as Messi at Barca.
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Its an insult to messi to compare totti with him, messi having a superior team or not. Totti was a very good player but thats pretty much it. I won't even put him in the top 5 italian players ever with Pirlo and Del Piero just two of many italian players that were better than him. If Totti played on that Barca team can you see him doing as well? Can you see him scoring 60 goals a season? I can't see how he even fits in with him being a similar player to Iniesta.

Zidane always played on great teams but nobody brings that up. I think Messi will be properly appreciated when he retires but then again fans are fickle. All managers and players speak glowingly of him and they know far more about football than us.
Didn't Wenger call him a playstation player once?
 
Malva said:
never suggested that. just saying it was a great team. i like d'agostino as well, he's had a nice little career in italy and has alot of nice qualities, he's a classy technically high quality player. Tbanty suggesting that simply because he didn't know the players of roma, this equaled them being not worthy players... that's a pretty pathetic logic.
Click to expand...
I can smell lie.
 
Berginyon said:
Lionel Messi is a very good player but I feel like he has been the product of the Barca system and his subpar performances at the World Cups have proven my theory correct. Cristiano Ronaldo had to carry the Manchester United squad on his back during his days here, Messi never had to carry any team. If you take out Ronaldo and Messi and pit the best possible Portugal team over the last 8 years against the best possible Argentina team over the last 8 years. Argentina will win 4-0.
Look at a player like Klose who have clearly outperformed Messi to a shocking degree but because he's not a 'media darling' he never got the hype of Messi and will go down as one of the great under rated players of our generation. I'm not saying that Messi isn't a very good player, I'm saying that he isn't a GREAT player. There is tiers to that.

Great Players(over the last 5 years) Ronaldo/Xavi/Iniesta
Very Good Players(over the last 5 Years) Messi/Suarez/Robben/Bastin/

Messi is able to elevate himself into that first tier because of the system. The Barca system is build for a small agile mover like Messi to excel in. He wouldn't do well at all in a Manchester or Liverpool system. The system of hard ball. He's just not big enough from a physical standpoint. But I hope he does well at this World Cup. I always root for the little guys!
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This doesnt make sense. You are moaning that Messi plays in a great team and is only a 'good player' but Iniesta and Xavi also playing with the same great players YET are better than Messi. What:lol:

The quality of posts these days are shocking to say the least:lol:

How do you know he wouldn't do well in a 'Manchester and Liverpool system'?
 
sammyvine said:
This doesnt make sense. You are moaning that Messi plays in a great team and is only a 'good player' but Iniesta and Xavi also playing with the same great players YET are better than Messi. What:lol:

The quality of posts these days are shocking to say the least:lol:
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And saying Ronaldo "carried United on his back" is a slap in the face to every player during that period.

He had a massive contribution, but if he did as he said he would be able to get Portugal past the knockout rounds of the WC
 
Banana007 said:
And saying Ronaldo "carried United on his back" is a slap in the face to every player during that period.

He had a massive contribution, but if he did as he said he would be able to get Portugal past the knockout rounds of the WC
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The post is so bad I don't know where to start:lol:
 
Berginyon said:
Lionel Messi is a very good player but I feel like he has been the product of the Barca system and his subpar performances at the World Cups have proven my theory correct. Cristiano Ronaldo had to carry the Manchester United squad on his back during his days here, Messi never had to carry any team. If you take out Ronaldo and Messi and pit the best possible Portugal team over the last 8 years against the best possible Argentina team over the last 8 years. Argentina will win 4-0.
Look at a player like Klose who have clearly outperformed Messi to a shocking degree but because he's not a 'media darling' he never got the hype of Messi and will go down as one of the great under rated players of our generation. I'm not saying that Messi isn't a very good player, I'm saying that he isn't a GREAT player. There is tiers to that.

Great Players(over the last 5 years) Ronaldo/Xavi/Iniesta
Very Good Players(over the last 5 Years) Messi/Suarez/Robben/Bastin/

Messi is able to elevate himself into that first tier because of the system. The Barca system is build for a small agile mover like Messi to excel in. He wouldn't do well at all in a Manchester or Liverpool system. The system of hard ball. He's just not big enough from a physical standpoint. But I hope he does well at this World Cup. I always root for the little guys!
Click to expand...

And I thought I was the biggest Messi hater around. There is so much wrong with this post. Even the biggest of his detractors and haters cant deny that he is easily among the top 10 players ever to play the game and a slightly better footballer than C Ronaldo. I myself despite being a Ronaldo fanboi put him above Ronaldo and among the top 5 to ever play the game. There is no way that you can put Xavi and Iniesta above him and categorize him alomg with Bastian and Robben.
 
sammyvine said:
Its an insult to messi to compare totti with him, messi having a superior team or not. Totti was a very good player but thats pretty much it. I won't even put him in the top 5 italian players ever with Pirlo and Del Piero just two of many italian players that were better than him. If Totti played on that Barca team can you see him doing as well? Can you see him scoring 60 goals a season? I can't see how he even fits in with him being a similar player to Iniesta.
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Not sure what you're talking about man, I never said he was a better player in Messi - in fact if you read again I said the complete opposite. Of course he isn't better than Messi. He isn't better than Ronaldo either, I just suggested that he may be the more natural/talented footballer than Ronaldo. He's quite clearly worse than both though.

He is however a better playmaker than Messi and a better passer. He's also just an extremely gifted, technical player which is why when compared to someone like Cristiano it's a fair view to suggest he's a more natural footballer. I think he's about even with Pirlo and slightly ahead of Del Piero, probably a bit behind Baggio but I'm less convinced than most people about that. If Totti had moved to Juve or something his reputation would be much higher.
 
T.banty10 said:
I can smell lie.
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have you not been paying any attention?

I have only said 2 things regarding comparing the squad totti had in 2000 and messi's pep barca.

i said that totti's team is ridiculously good when you look at the squad, and that that it is damn ferocious. Not once did i suggest that it compares to barca's messi. i only responded to your belief that it was a no name team.

Theon said:
Not sure what you're talking about man, I never said he was a better player in Messi - in fact if you read again I said the complete opposite. Of course he isn't better than Messi. He isn't better than Ronaldo either, I just suggested that he may be the more natural/talented footballer than Ronaldo. He's quite clearly worse than both though.

He is however a better playmaker than Messi and a better passer. He's also just an extremely gifted, technical player which is why when compared to someone like Cristiano it's a fair view to suggest he's a more natural footballer. I think he's about even with Pirlo and slightly ahead of Del Piero, probably a bit behind Baggio but I'm less convinced than most people about that. If Totti had moved to Juve or something his reputation would be much higher.
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i fully agree with this.
 
The Robben mania in comparison to the criticism of Messi's overall play is kinda amusing though. When I personally criticized Messi's play I did so knowing what he is truly capable of, not to put him down. But even this current Messi is still far more involved as the creative hub of his team than Robben who is only utilized as a counterattacking outlet upfront to chase balls on the break into oceans of space and run at defenders 1 vs. 1 (his assist today at the end after a Chile corner when their entire team was pushed forward being an example). Messi is averaging 47 successful passes per game so far in the competition. Robben 17. Iran being bad on paper and Spain being the best doesn't mean much either. Robben could run 1 vs. 1 at Pique. Messi had to score vs. 11 Iranians behind the ball.

Think this discussion will be put to bed rather quickly anyway once Agüero and Higuain shake off the dust and provide the movement and Messi slowly gets into his groove. I'm a believer. :)
 
Malva said:
have you not been paying any attention?

I have only said 2 things regarding comparing the squad totti had in 2000 and messi's pep barca.

i said that totti's team is ridiculously good when you look at the squad, and that that it is damn ferocious. Not once did i suggest that it compares to barca's messi. i only responded to your belief that it was a no name team.


i fully agree with this.
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Trying to save face, are we?
I said Totti didn't have the supporting cast Messi has and immediately you jump in and started naming players Totti played in 2001 when Roma won the scudetto.
Meanwhile, I looked at the players and wasn't familiar with most of them, save for some because I didn't watch Roma closely at that time and definately couldn't be more than 9 yrs during the time. However, you continued to brag on how great they were and blah blah.. Now, you're twisting the story, the way you were picking out points that suit your story, minutes ago.
 
Berginyon said:
Lionel Messi is a very good player but I feel like he has been the product of the Barca system and his subpar performances at the World Cups have proven my theory correct. Cristiano Ronaldo had to carry the Manchester United squad on his back during his days here, Messi never had to carry any team. If you take out Ronaldo and Messi and pit the best possible Portugal team over the last 8 years against the best possible Argentina team over the last 8 years. Argentina will win 4-0.
Look at a player like Klose who have clearly outperformed Messi to a shocking degree but because he's not a 'media darling' he never got the hype of Messi and will go down as one of the great under rated players of our generation. I'm not saying that Messi isn't a very good player, I'm saying that he isn't a GREAT player. There is tiers to that.

Great Players(over the last 5 years) Ronaldo/Xavi/Iniesta
Very Good Players(over the last 5 Years) Messi/Suarez/Robben/Bastin/

Messi is able to elevate himself into that first tier because of the system. The Barca system is build for a small agile mover like Messi to excel in. He wouldn't do well at all in a Manchester or Liverpool system. The system of hard ball. He's just not big enough from a physical standpoint. But I hope he does well at this World Cup. I always root for the little guys!
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T.banty10 has infected the thread.
 
T.banty10 said:
more talented and skillful
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That's like saying "water is sweeter that coke'. There's something wrong with your taste buds man.
I jest of course, didn't watch nearly enough of Totti, but if thats true then he either wasted his talent or is massively underrated
 
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