Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!

T.banty10 said:
You forgot where I said in compared to Messi? That was exactly one of your formulated lie?
And if saying Totti has a better control on the ball without needing the pace and quick burst Messi need is bullshit, then let it be.
If saying Totti never had the supporting cast Messi had, for him to archive his worldclass potential, then let it be.
If saying Totti has a better style of play than Messi is bullshit, then let it be.
All in all, you can call it whatever you like and infact, build a Messi's statue in your bedroom. However, it doesn't remove a hair strand from me.
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mate, you are absurdly wrong

and is not just that, you admited that you havent seen Roma when totti won the scudetto, so how can you say that he wasnt well surrounded?

seriously, stop it
 
marcosdeto said:
mate. i havent seen fans that prefer ronaldo -which is a very valid assumption- being called "ronaldo fanbois", even when in fact, if you read ronaldo's thread, they are comparing his assist against USA to Pele´s and Maradonas world cups, when the truth is that Portugal is more likely to return home after next game
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You're doing Cal some disservice here. Agree on the assist part. Ridiculous. Nani was pinging balls like that in the second half yet suddenly Ronaldo taught him how it's done just because Silvestre bloody Varela left his marker. Poor tourney from Ronnie so far.

EDIT: We're doing the forbidden here, no more comparisons.
 
Revan said:
Studying computer science causes some things on other spheres of life. Probably



Messi gets heavily criticized here. Just look at the game versus Bosna when he had a poor first half and how a lot of people (well, me too) criticized him for not playing well. I think that the comments on both him and Ronaldo are spot on. Until someone starts comparing them, belittling the achievement's of one of them, exageratting those of the other etc and makes the thread generally shit and impossible to read.
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Wrong.
A look at a thread on Ronaldo not participating in the Worldcup due to injury tells you otherwise. I think the thread was locked by the way.
Obviously, you aint Messi's fanboi indeed.
 
marcosdeto said:
mate, you are absurdly wrong

and is not just that, you admited that you havent seen Roma when totti won the scudetto, so how can you say that he wasnt well surrounded?

seriously, stop it
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I thought we're over this already?
Seriously, are you saying that scudetto winning team is as good as Messi's team? You mean the defensive players people kept metioning as the great players in that team, makes it equal to Messi's team? Jeez..
I still stand by my opinion anyway.
 
Bole Top said:
yessss, you're right about that. still, it doesn't change anything. those two could have won the world cup in Brazil and majority of people would still rate Zidane higher. we even had a thread about that and most people said Zidane was better than Iniesta ever was.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/zidane-and-iniesta.362379/

funny thing, some say that Iniesta played with better players and it was easier for him and here I'm reading that everything was easier for Messi because he played with Iniesta :lol:
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No doubt they complement each other. But one thing people keep forgetting is there's more than one force that kept projecting Barca forward, whereas it was Zidane that was the only force behind Madrid. He was the organizer of the midfield and at the same time, the creative force, which can't be said of Iniesta.
People talks about Makele's loss leading to Madrid's downfall but it wasn't, rather It was finding no adequate replacement for him, instead Madrid signed Beckham, an attacking CM to replace a DM. The only thing Beckham provided, was providing a passing option for Zidane which Makele didn't however, everything else remained constant save for a huge hole in the midfield.
In other words, Zidane was still the controller and creative force despite the aquisition of Beckham.
 
T.banty10 said:
I thought we're over this already?
Seriously, are you saying that scudetto winning team is as good as Messi's team? You mean the defensive players people kept metioning as the great players in that team, makes it equal to Messi's team? Jeez..
I still stand by my opinion anyway.
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i'm not saying that, i'm saying that you didnt see Roma win the scudetto, and yet you are talking as if you did

is not that hard to understand
 
Tomuś said:
What's wrong with saying he had a bad game when in fact he had? I have no problems with all the praise etc. I just don't like the bullying of those who are more attentive to Messi's shortcomings. As far as the current discussion goes, the Messi lovers (let's called them like that just for the purpose of comparison) are spot on and Messi haters are having a shocker. For some reason you assumed I'm getting on his back whereas it's the exact opposite basically.
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who said there was something wrong:confused:
 
marcosdeto said:
i'm not saying that, i'm saying that you didnt see Roma win the scudetto, and yet you are talking as if you did

is not that hard to understand
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I didn't claim otherwise.
That still doesn't change the fact people kept overrating the team and the best thing is to debunk their theory.
 
T.banty10 said:
Wrong.
A look at a thread on Ronaldo not participating in the Worldcup due to injury tells you otherwise. I think the thread was locked by the way.
Obviously, you aint Messi's fanboi indeed.
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I posted a lot during Argentina-Bosna game and until he scored the goal he was being crucified there. I don't know about the other thread your mentioning, but if he has been locked than likely it was because morons pollite every Messi and Ronaldo thread with comparisons of each other regardless that they are said to not do it and a lot of these threads start with exactly that warning. It is even worse than Sony vs Microsoft 'debates'.

T.banty10 said:
You forgot where I said in compared to Messi? That was exactly one of your formulated lie?
And if saying Totti has a better control on the ball without needing the pace and quick burst Messi need is bullshit, then let it be.
If saying Totti never had the supporting cast Messi had, for him to archive his worldclass potential, then let it be.
If saying Totti has a better style of play than Messi is bullshit, then let it be.
All in all, you can call it whatever you like and infact, build a Messi's statue in your bedroom. However, it doesn't remove a hair strand from me.
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Zidane didn't had an average support crew in no way. Even compared to Barca, that team (at-least on names wasn't any worse). He had the best striker in the world (and also rated as one of the best strikers ever) in attack together with an another striker who was in top 5. Then there was the best winger in the world and one of the best defensive midfielders at that time. The defense was very solid too. Real Madrid had won 2 UCL in the three years before Zidane went there, aberage my arse. In fact it would be a very good debate if Zidane was ever the main man on Madrid or was he just one of their star players like Figo, Ronaldo and Raul.

It doesn't matter that Totti didn't had a supporting cast as good as Messi to realize that he wasn't as good as Messi. I aldo didn't had a supporting cast as good as Messi when I played on high school, that doesn't mean that I am better than Messi. It is one of the most bizarre logic I have ever seen here.

Also yout mentioning that Totti didn't need the speed is absolutely wrong. Totti was a very fast player on his prime and when he played as a No.10 he used his speed all the time. He wasn't exactly as fast as Ronaldo but he was a fast player. Later on his career he adapted his game as a striker and didn't need the speed as much. Anyway, the Totti versus Messi debate is utterly pointless. Messi was the main man in one of the most sccesful teams of all time, Totti while a great player had won a Scudetto (when anyway Batistuta was the main man) and the world cup where he was a peripherical figure.
 
Batistuta wasn't the main man ahead of Totti - no way. Totti was the heart of that side, coming off an exceptional Euro 2000 tournament and being voted Footballer of the Year in Serie A ahead of players like Zidane and Batistuta.
 
Revan said:
I posted a lot during Argentina-Bosna game and until he scored the goal he was being crucified there. I don't know about the other thread your mentioning, but if he has been locked than likely it was because morons pollite every Messi and Ronaldo thread with comparisons of each other regardless that they are said to not do it and a lot of these threads start with exactly that warning. It is even worse than Sony vs Microsoft 'debates'.


Zidane didn't had an average support crew in no way. Even compared to Barca, that team (at-least on names wasn't any worse). He had the best striker in the world (and also rated as one of the best strikers ever) in attack together with an another striker who was in top 5. Then there was the best winger in the world and one of the best defensive midfielders at that time. The defense was very solid too. Real Madrid had won 2 UCL in the three years before Zidane went there, aberage my arse. In fact it would be a very good debate if Zidane was ever the main man on Madrid or was he just one of their star players like Figo, Ronaldo and Raul.

It doesn't matter that Totti didn't had a supporting cast as good as Messi to realize that he wasn't as good as Messi. I aldo didn't had a supporting cast as good as Messi when I played on high school, that doesn't mean that I am better than Messi. It is one of the most bizarre logic I have ever seen here.

Also yout mentioning that Totti didn't need the speed is absolutely wrong. Totti was a very fast player on his prime and when he played as a No.10 he used his speed all the time. He wasn't exactly as fast as Ronaldo but he was a fast player. Later on his career he adapted his game as a striker and didn't need the speed as much. Anyway, the Totti versus Messi debate is utterly pointless. Messi was the main man in one of the most sccesful teams of all time, Totti while a great player had won a Scudetto (when anyway Batistuta was the main man) and the world cup where he was a peripherical figure.
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The greatest DM? Are you kidding me? Someone who can't contribute the flow of the game nor provide a passing option for his midfielders is the greatest DM of all time? Also, do you think Busquets defensive works has any influence on Messi's performance, the same way you're thinking for Zidane? No doubt Makele's defensive work is of a huge contribution to the team just like Busquets' but no way do Zidane benefitted from him, especially someone who's limited.
And do you mean a crock and Raul were great strikers in the team? Let's just say Ronaldo was phenomenal whenever he played however, Raul isn't the special striker you're making it sound. And you keep forgetting Zidane was the whole midfield itself.
Apart from Figo and maybe Ronaldo, there was nothing special to that side save for players with grit and hardwork.
Also, your claim was Messi receives more criticism than Ronaldo which is a lie, and this can be easily seen by comparing the amount of criticism in Ronaldo thread to Messi's thread. And like I said earlier, there was a thread which entails bashing Ronaldo due to the news about him not being capable of continuing in the tourny because of an injury.
Lastly, I started watching Totti in his 26-27 prime age and I can beat my chest he wasn't fast. Or may be you're confusing agility to speed. Whichever ways, I fancy Totti more than Messi.
 
T.banty10 said:
The greatest DM? Are you kidding me? Someone who can't contribute the flow of the game nor provide a passing option for his midfielders is the greatest DM of all time? Also, do you think Busquets defensive works has any influence on Messi's performance, the same way you're thinking for Zidane? No doubt Makele's defensive work is of a huge contribution to the team just like Busquets' but no way do Zidane benefitted from him, especially someone who's limited.
And do you mean a crock and Raul were great strikers in the team? Let's just say Ronaldo was phenomenal whenever he played however, Raul isn't the special striker you're making it sound. And you keep forgetting Zidane was the whole midfield itself.
Apart from Figo and maybe Ronaldo, there was nothing special to that side save for players with grit and hardwork.
Also, your claim was Messi receives more criticism than Ronaldo which is a lie, and this can be easily seen by comparing the amount of criticism in Ronaldo thread to Messi's thread. And like I said earlier, there was a thread which entails bashing Ronaldo due to the news about him not being capable of continuing in the tourny because of an injury.
Lastly, I started watching Totti in his 26-27 prime age and I can beat my chest he wasn't fast. Or may be you're confusing agility to speed. Whichever ways, I fancy Totti more than Messi.
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Raul wasn't a great striker?
Wow :lol::lol:
 
T.banty10 said:
The greatest DM? Are you kidding me? Someone who can't contribute the flow of the game nor provide a passing option for his midfielders is the greatest DM of all time? Also, do you think Busquets defensive works has any influence on Messi's performance, the same way you're thinking for Zidane? No doubt Makele's defensive work is of a huge contribution to the team just like Busquets' but no way do Zidane benefitted from him, especially someone who's limited.
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I said one of the greatest DM of that time, not ever. And Makelele was one of the best DM of that time. And obviously he benefited from him because with a worse DM, Zidane should have done some defensive duties.

T.banty10 said:
And do you mean a crock and Raul were great strikers in the team? Let's just say Ronaldo was phenomenal whenever he played however, Raul isn't the special striker you're making it sound. And you keep forgetting Zidane was the whole midfield itself.
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Now, you're becoming a child on purpose. If you have watced Madrid at that time you should know well that Ronaldo wasn't a crock. If not, then I gave you the stats of how many games Ronaldo played, which were only 12 games than Zidane during 4 years (an average of 3). So if Ronaldo was a crock, then so was Zidane because both of them had the similar number of appearances. Also, he didn't kept the midfiled by himself. He was their main playmaker but without the defensive job of Makelele he wouldn't have been near as good.

Raul was one fo the top strikers of his time, easily on the category of fat Ronaldo, Henry, RVP and Shewchenko. He scored goals for fun, he has more goals than any Real Madrid player and he still keeps the record for goals on UCL. Yes, he was exactly a striker how I am making, one of the best strikers in the world.
Apart from Figo and maybe Ronaldo, there was nothing special to that side save for players with grit and hardwork.

T.banty10 said:
Also, your claim was Messi receives more criticism than Ronaldo which is a lie, and this can be easily seen by comparing the amount of criticism in Ronaldo thread to Messi's thread. And like I said earlier, there was a thread which entails bashing Ronaldo due to the news about him not being capable of continuing in the tourny because of an injury.
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I never claimed that Messi receives more criticism than Ronaldo. Both of them from the majority of people receives both criticism and praise. Buth then there are the idiots who judge on absolutes and then make every thread a Ronaldo-Messi thread. You know like this thread, when we are discussing Messi and Totti but then you see needless mentioning of Ronaldo.

T.banty10 said:
Lastly, I started watching Totti in his 26-27 prime age and I can beat my chest he wasn't fast. Or may be you're confusing agility to speed. Whichever ways, I fancy Totti more than Messi.
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I think that his prime was a bit more early (2000-2004) and at that time he was a fast player. Go watch the Roma Scudetto year or Euro 2000 or World Cup 2002 and see for yourself.

This is my last post with you on this debate.
 
Lads, I'm going to lock this thread until the Argentina game starts and when it opens we're going to get back to talking about Messi at the World Cup. If you feel this uncontrollable compulsion to talk about Makelele and Roma and everything under the sun then feel free, but let's not de-rail this thread any further.
 
Brwned said:
Lads, I'm going to lock this thread until the Argentina game starts and when it opens we're going to get back to talking about Messi at the World Cup. If you feel this uncontrollable compulsion to talk about Makelele and Roma and everything under the sun then feel free, but let's not de-rail this thread any further.
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ban TBanty from this thread and the problem will be solved
 
marcosdeto said:
ban TBanty from this thread and the problem will be solved
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True, TBanty has been thread banned for a week and now everyone can stick to the topic so I've re-opened the thread.
 
Brwned said:
True, TBanty has been thread banned for a week and now everyone can stick to the topic so I've re-opened the thread.
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Aw, no laughs for a full week? :(

Anyway, on topic, I think Messi is having a good tournament. If anyone, it's Aguero, Higuain etc who should be getting singled out for criticism, they have contributed very little so far in the opening games. Messi alone has won Argentina the opening two games, the rest have been uninspiring.
 
First time in my life I will be cheering for Messi and Argentina tonight.
 
egginsoup said:
Aw, no laughs for a full week? :(

Anyway, on topic, I think Messi is having a good tournament. If anyone, it's Aguero, Higuain etc who should be getting singled out for criticism, they have contributed very little so far in the opening games. Messi alone has won Argentina the opening two games, the rest have been uninspiring.
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Agree. He isn't playing like Messi at his best but still he has been carrying them on his own so far and he has been involved in all three goals (scoring 2 while the other goal was an OG after his cross). Not great as usual, but very effective and so far it has been a good tournament from him.
 
He's going to do this in every game isn't he?
 
What a playa...

Argentina-- 5 goals - 4 Messi, 1 OG (Messi assist, sort of)

Another step up in form and Argies would defo be favorites
 
Genius! so good to see him bringing it on the world cup stage!
 
With this form for both Neymar and Messi, next year Barca would be something else.. :drool:
 
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