Memphis Depay | PSV confirm deal with Man Utd is agreed!

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Invictus said:
Ironic thing is that most of the people poo-pooing Memphis' transfer haven't seen him enough to form an educated opinion, much like Herrera or Blind last season. They just have a preconceived notion of his potential and playing style, with nothing in the way of qualifying said opinion.

FWIW he's not much like Nani, apart from maybe his cockiness and position of play. I really like Nani, he is more technically gifted but unfortunately a bit mentally fragile, and he never quite harnessed that naturally ability, resulting in inconsistencies and stalled development.

Meanwhile, with Memphis even at this stage you can tell that he has immense mental resilience, and has a definitive long term developmental plan. He's progressed every season thus far, from being in the shadow of Maher and Narsingh, and being considered an inferior talent to Bakkali, to emerging as the main man at PSV, polishing his technique and stamina and finishing. And most of his improvement is focused on limiting wasted motion and just streamlining his effectiveness as opposed to Nani's largely virtuoso playing style.

The transfer will probably set us back £20-25 million at a stretch, but considering his substantial talent, it's hardly an obscene amount for a club of United's stature. It's not like signing him will stop us from adding players at other positions. These are the type of dealings that are considered smart business in the long term considering his age profile and the fact that could be an important player for 5 seasons if not more, plus a player of equivalent value might cost us double the amount in 2 or 3 seasons.
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Great post, but you've got a few things wrong about PSV ;). Narsingh done his ACL last year and hasn't been the same since, he's also older and a different type of winger - he gives more assists. Maher was bought for alot of money but didn't have a good first season, he struggled to adapt to a topclub. This year he's showing what he's capable of, but he didn't clearly have a better season than Memphis last year (not really compareable either - a CAM to a LW).

Bakkali only broke trough this year, he wasn't regarded the better talent either. He's good on a football pitch but there were worries about his personal problems. Those doubts were proven right - Bakkali hasn't played a match in months because he doesn't want to sign a contract. He didn't accept Atletico Madrid's offer and wants to leave on a free. PSV don't accept this and he's now only training with the youth and not playing for them.

Devil may care said:
I'm not sure how many times you have to see him to qualify for a credible view, serious question not sarcasm. Between the World Cup, PSV games and Dutch qualifiers I'd say I've seen him in full matches between 12-15 times. I've seen some good things from him but he doesn't carry the ball at speed the way I hoped and his dribbling technique is very loose, those 2 things I think we are missing more than someone that is just fast across 20 yards into open space.

When Hazard was at Lille, Isco at Malaga, Gotze at Dortmund and Sanchez at Udinese you could see real magic there, I just don't see that with Depay. In fact if you compare him to his peers such as Fekir, Dybala, Vietto and Sterling I think he looks less developed and skilled than them.

I'm not saying he can't develop into a very good player, not at all, but the levels to which some are hyping this buy is weird to me, he's not even guaranteed to unseat Young on our left of the front 3 and that is an issue I think needs addressing, as while Young has had a decent season he's not of the required standard in a front 3 to push for the title IMO.
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He's not compareable to those players, maybe that's why you haven't seen him perform magic? You can't judge a fish on his ability to climb a tree.

Memphis Depay is all about contribution in the final 3rd. He can create goals out of nothing or be at the end of a pass to score. His overall play used to be poor and he's still not the finished product yet. It's very clear that he's improving his obvious weaker points and he seems to have great vision already. His final ball may be lacking but if this keeps improving he will be compareable to Ronaldo/Bale in playing style.
 
Looks like a gem of a player. He'll thrive in the PL.
 
ivaldo said:
I'm surprised there isn't more activity on this thread, its pretty much been confirmed we are signing Depay in the summer. Title change perhaps?
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I can't speak for the other (non-)posters here but I make an effort to avoid these threads. I've watched this place melt down too many times over a signing that MUST happen but doesn't (and we forget about it 4 months later) to want to get involved in all the hype and speculation over the potential signing of a player that, in all honesty, I haven't watched. I've only come in here because of the tweets that were shown on the Caf's feed.

By all accounts, he'd be an excellent addition so I hope we get him but there's never a guarantee how these things will work out (who'd have predicted that Fellaini would be one of the first names on the team sheet while ADM would struggle to get a start?) so I try not to put much hope on anyone until I see them play well in a United shirt.
 
I think people are just trying to be negative in the same way they were when we didn't go for Fabregas and went for Herrera, didn't go for Vidal and went for Blind and many of our other signings.

He's got pace and strength by the abundance, traits which make you thrive in the premier league and he's got the mental strength to be able to reach a goal and not let a couple of bad games effect his morale.
 
Walrus said:
@Invictus
I compare him to Nani not in terms of playing style, but his ability, potential, reputation etc. Every summer there are half a dozen such prospects being touted around over Europe, most of whom get a move to a big(ger) club. Some of them turn out like Hazard, a lot of them turn out like Cuadrado.

My gripe is not that I dont think Depay may become a good player, but because it is far from a sure thing. For me, RB and a winger are the two highest priority positions that we need to strengthen. I dont want the club to take risks on these positions, with players who may or may not meet their potential/expectation.

Basically, if we put our eggs in the Depay basket and he doesnt make an immediate impact next season, we are left with a problem because we only have Young (maybe), Di Maria (maybe) and Januzaj (maybe). For a position that we need an established first choice player in, that is what we should sign, not a player who we hope can make the step up to playing for a big club/in the PL etc.

If we sign a Sterling or a Bale, there is a much lower risk involved, which is what I want in that position.
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Fair enough. Sterling is a great prospect no doubt. I'd definitely prefer him over Memphis, and just about any other young player in a similar position for that matter. But from a more realistic perspective, the odds aren't in our favor when it comes to signing him, no matter how much money we shove down Liverpool's throats. If he doesn't renew the contract, Liverpool (even in a diminished state with substantially lower revenues) as his current employer can exert a lot of control over his future. Given the history and intense rivalry between the two clubs, it would be sacrilegious for them to sell him off to United, deals of this magnitude just don't occur between Liverpool and Manchester United (eg. Gerrard to United was proposed in the early 2000s, later Heinze to Liverpool) and IMO if he were to leave they'd much rather sell Sterling to City.

Memphis by comparison would join us 99 % given the chance, and to be honest I like the kind of players whose first destination of choice is United. Van Gaal is an astute evaluator and developer of young players, he turned Dutch players like Kluivert, Overmars, Seedorf etc from potential question marks who could go either way, into world class footballers. He is also a big believer in Memphis, gave him his debut for the national team, carved out a prominent impact role for him in the World Cup, was involved in his decision to stay at PSV last season, and so forth. That in itself speaks volumes for Memphis' ability, since Van Gaal has a great eye for talent, has been there and done that, and brought through some of biggest stars in world football. So the fact that he thinks highly of Memphis is indicative of his potential going forward.

We can sit back and debate the merits of acquiring safer or more proven talent, but at the end of the day we're none the wiser from a purely objective standpoint. None of us can really predict how a player will turn out. Every footballer has to start somewhere, and some are put in a disadvantageous position by virtue of playing in a weaker league, through no fault of their own. But retrospectively, was Ashley Young in 2011 or 2012 (as a safer choice - his improvement nowwithstanding), the better one over say Reus, who was more risky and less experienced in the top flight footballer, was sold by Dortmund because he wasn't strong or good enough.

Does being more of a supposed risk really diminish their potential on an individual basis ? Instead of clubbing Memphis with other who never panned out, let's evaluate him fairly on his individual merit. How many 21 year old wide forwards or wingers scored almost 30 goals in a season in the European leagues, and turned out to be duds at their next clubs ? Should we give up on acquiring young talent all-together just because some other players failed after their big moves ? Yes, we had our fair share of flops. But we also unearthed gems like Ole and Evra and Vidic etc etc, when we could've instead signed safer players.
 
I'd be ecstatic if we brought him in along with Firmino, Hummels and Clyne. Chuck in a midfielder and happy days.

Wouldn't cost a bomb either.

Depay £22m
Firmino £18m
Hummels £35m
Clyne £15m

And Strootman or Schneiderlin for £30m if we've got any spare change.

Not many star names but that's a squad that's ready to win the UCL.
 
Kill 'em all said:
I think people are just trying to be negative in the same way they were when we didn't go for Fabregas and went for Herrera, didn't go for Vidal and went for Blind and many of our other signings.
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Or maybe some just don't rate him as highly as many do.
 
Sammyjunn said:
So what? Ronaldo scored some FK's for us too, Depay is a better free kick taker than anyone we have, how many free kicks have we scored this season? Talking about the ones who arent just missed by everyone. It's a great attribute to have.

The dutch league isnt the strongest, but look how the former top players of that league are doing jn the PL, Verthongen, Alderweireld, Chadli, Tadic, Eriksen, Blind, Suarez all in just recent years. The Netherlands also ended 3rd at the WC with 5 players of the Ed in the starting XI at that time. (Cillesen, janmaat, de vrij, indi, blind).
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So not every players who looks good in the Ed becomes an instant hit. My original point was never about potential or talent, it was about risk, and I dont think it can be argued that Depay isnt a riskier signing than someone like Bale or Sterling.


dasty said:
Comparing Depay to Cuadrado is unfair, simply because Cuadrado is 5 years older than him. Even so, aren't you being too hasty in thinking that Cuadrado is the definition of a failed transfer? As far as I can remember he had only been in Chelsea for a few months. Vidic and Evra weren't exactly lighting the PL up when they first joined but they turned out fine in the end.

LVG had worked with Depay for a long time and even if there are risks involved I'm pretty sure they are calculated risk, instead of us signing a player blindly. And what is indicating to you that we are putting all our eggs in the Depay basket? It's not as if we can only make 1 signing this summer.
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I used Cuadrado as a convenient example but I agree he hasnt been at Chelsea long enough for anyone to form a concrete opinion, I was just being lazy.
Kagawa is perhaps a more appropriate example.

I dont think we will sign more than one winger this summer, when there are other areas of the squad that need strengthening (and I am of the belief that we only need 2-3 players, but these need to be the right ones). If we sign Depay then I would like to see Nani come back to add a bit of depth and security, to give us options.


Invictus said:
Fair enough. Sterling is a great prospect no doubt. I'd definitely prefer him over Memphis, and just about any other young player in a similar position for that matter. But from a more realistic perspective, the odds aren't in our favor when it comes to signing him, no matter how much money we shove down Liverpool's throats. If he doesn't renew the contract, Liverpool (even in a diminished state with substantially lower revenues) as his current employer can exert a lot of control over his future. Given the history and intense rivalry between the two clubs, it would be sacrilegious for them to sell him off to United, deals of this magnitude just don't occur between Liverpool and Manchester United (eg. Gerrard to United was proposed in the early 2000s, later Heinze to Liverpool) and IMO if he were to leave they'd much rather sell Sterling to City.

Memphis by comparison would join us 99 % given the chance, and to be honest I like the kind of players whose first destination of choice is United. Van Gaal is an astute evaluator and developer of young players, he turned Dutch players like Kluivert, Overmars, Seedorf etc from potential question marks who could go either way, into world class footballers. He is also a big believer in Memphis, gave him his debut for the national team, carved out a prominent impact role for him in the World Cup, was involved in his decision to stay at PSV last season, and so forth. That in itself speaks volumes for Memphis' ability, since Van Gaal has a great eye for talent, has been there and done that, and brought through some of biggest stars in world football. So the fact that he thinks highly of Memphis is indicative of his potential going forward.

We can sit back and debate the merits of acquiring safer or more proven talent, but at the end of the day we're none the wiser from a purely objective standpoint. Every footballer has to start somewhere, and some are put in a disadvantageous position by virtue of playing in a weaker league, through no fault of their own. But retrospectively, was Ashley Young in 2011 or 2012 (as a safer choice - his improvement nowwithstanding), the better one over say Reus, who was more risky and less experienced in the top flight footballer, was sold by Dortmund because he wasn't strong or good enough.

Does being more of a supposed risk really diminish their potential on an individual basis ? Instead of clubbing Memphis with other who never panned out, let's evaluate him fairly on his individual merit. How many 21 year old wide forwards or wingers scored almost 30 goals in a season in the European leagues, and turned out to be duds at their next clubs ?
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Regarding Sterling, I mentioned in this thread earlier today my thoughts on that - that basically the rivalry between Liverpool and United obviously exists at club level and fan level, but there is nothing like the level of animosity as in the Fergie/Benitez era, for instance.
Sterling's contract is running out, and Liverpool would be wise to sell him this summer in order to finance the rebuild that they need. If we offer more than the likes of Arsenal (which shouldnt be hard, and City have FFP to consider) then I cant see them refusing to sell to us based on rivalry. I really thing the Liverpool board and Rodgers are a bit more pragmatic than that.

Your comparison to Young isnt really accurate either, as nobody is suggesting that we sign a journeyman "doing well for a mid table PL club" type player - the alternatives I have mentioned are Sterling and Bale, and neither of them are remotely like Young in terms of the calibre of the signing.

Having said all that, I trust LVG and his scouts on this one. As you and others have said, LVG has worked with Depay - if he is confident that he can turn him into a star, then by all means, and I am not saying that it cant or wont happen - all I am saying is that there is a distinct element of risk involved, and I feel that risky transfers would be a mistake this summer if we are to truly try to win the league and challenge for the CL next season (which should be our aim).
 
I would love it if we signed Memphis. I have only really seen him at the World Cup but I saw enough to know that he is a great young talent in the Alexsis Sanchez mould. His stats this season suggest that his development is continuing at a pace and that would continue here at United. :)
 
Sammyjunn said:
So what? Ronaldo scored some FK's for us too, Depay is a better free kick taker than anyone we have, how many free kicks have we scored this season? Talking about the ones who arent just missed by everyone. It's a great attribute to have.
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I'm not certain, but I think statistically Mata has the best FK conversion rate in Premier League history.
 
Walrus said:
Having said all that, I trust LVG and his scouts on this one. As you and others have said, LVG has worked with Depay - if he is confident that he can turn him into a star, then by all means, and I am not saying that it cant or wont happen - all I am saying is that there is a distinct element of risk involved, and I feel that risky transfers would be a mistake this summer if we are to truly try to win the league and challenge for the CL next season (which should be our aim).
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I get what you're saying but that kind of risk exists with any signing, even when buying world class established players. We could buy Depay and he turns out to be a 20 goal a season player for us and we could also buy Reus and he completely flops.
 
dasty said:
@NL Max
That Bakkali boy seems to have some serious attitude problem. What do you think of him?
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He didn't like PSV their offer. He was going to be 2nd choice left winger behind Memphis for a year because they were going to sell the latter, Bakkali thought he was good enough already for a guaranteed start at age 17 - he wanted to play more even though he already played much more than intended. They wanted to make him one of the better paid players - he refused because he got better offers. He kept stalling and PSV gave him an ultimatum, he didn't renew so PSV put him on the transfer list. They accepted an offer from Atletico Madrid but he refused this.

As a result he's leaving on a free but will not have played for months.

Seemed a good talent, but he had something like 8 different agents already and loads more people influencing his decisions. He doesn't have the mentality, he might still become good but I doubt it. There have been many cases like him before in the ED who flopped.

Complete opposite to Memphis Depay. He also was too full of himself, but he never complained. He's working hard and stayed even though he had the option to go to Tottenham last year. He's a perfectionist and critisizes himself after matches. He got over his personal trouble and cut off all connections with people who were a bad influence on him (he used to be a 'bad boy' - tough youth, hanging on the streets, petty crimes etc.)

He has a plan to reach the top and so far he's taken the first few steps without too much trouble.
 
Devil may care said:
I'm not sure how many times you have to see him to qualify for a credible view, serious question not sarcasm. Between the World Cup, PSV games and Dutch qualifiers I'd say I've seen him in full matches between 12-15 times. I've seen some good things from him but he doesn't carry the ball at speed the way I hoped and his dribbling technique is very loose, those 2 things I think we are missing more than someone that is just fast across 20 yards into open space.

When Hazard was at Lille, Isco at Malaga, Gotze at Dortmund and Sanchez at Udinese you could see real magic there, I just don't see that with Depay. In fact if you compare him to his peers such as Fekir, Dybala, Vietto and Sterling I think he looks less developed and skilled than them.

I'm not saying he can't develop into a very good player, not at all, but the levels to which some are hyping this buy is weird to me, he's not even guaranteed to unseat Young on our left of the front 3 and that is an issue I think needs addressing, as while Young has had a decent season he's not of the required standard in a front 3 to push for the title IMO.
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No doubt Memphis isn't quite Hazard or Isco class. They had like you said, some magical stuff in their locker which made them future Ballon D'Or candidates. What I'm arguing however is that while Memphis isn't exactly in their vicinity from an individual skillset standpoint, he's no agricultural grafter by any means either, the type of tangible output and the ability to play within the constraints of a structure defined by the manager that he exhibits is an oftentimes overlooked factor while evaluating players and their long term development.

Van Gaal always judges his players by their footballing intelligence, determination, attention to detail, ability to work hard for the team-mates around him and effectiveness in his overall philosophy so to speak. He doesn't care if a player can beat 5 defenders, or pull an impromptu rabona, or nutmeg a player of the edge of the box or execute other superficially brilliant things of that nature. Because those things don't add anything tangible to the overall result, and the ball always travels better in space, than by a player running with it.

Jari Litmanen wasn't the most skilled player in the world, he certainly was no Gheorghe Hagi or Jean-Pierre Papin. But he was arguably the biggest offensive difference maker in Van Gaal's Ajax team that dominated Europe for a period of 3 seasons. No one will mistake Thomas Muller for Rui Costa, but he's superbly efficient in what he does and arguably the better player despite his individual shortcoming.

Memphis has enough individual talent to one day day be a Top 15 or even 10 caliber player, I truly believe that. He might never be an Isco or Hazard or even Sterling who are more naturally gifted, and if they develop properly, seem destined for greater individual accomplishments.

But if can come in, show good defensive workrate (like he did vs Spain for example), produce interspersed moments of magic, be productive, score in the neighbor-hood of 15 or 20 goals per season, and help further Van Gaal's philosophy, then he'll be an excellent addition considering the price tag. You don't always need multiple superstars to win or play attractive football. Teamwork, tactical intelligence, execution of the game-plan and productivity is paramount.
 
Walrus said:
So not every players who looks good in the Ed becomes an instant hit. My original point was never about potential or talent, it was about risk, and I dont think it can be argued that Depay isnt a riskier signing than someone like Bale or Sterling.
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Depay might be a little more risky but, he is much more probable of a signing. His club already expects him to leave. We should make a quality signing like this and if Bale or Sterling become available great. ale only leaves Real Madrid if his situation there becomes completely untenable and Liverpool are still in control when it comes to the Sterling situation.
 
Excited for this (potential) signing he has all the attributes to be a special player.

All those questioning the league There's plenty of Top qualitycome out of the Dutch league so I've no doubt he will be a success here
 
Tyrion said:
I can't speak for the other (non-)posters here but I make an effort to avoid these threads. I've watched this place melt down too many times over a signing that MUST happen but doesn't (and we forget about it 4 months later) to want to get involved in all the hype and speculation over the potential signing of a player that, in all honesty, I haven't watched. I've only come in here because of the tweets that were shown on the Caf's feed.

By all accounts, he'd be an excellent addition so I hope we get him but there's never a guarantee how these things will work out (who'd have predicted that Fellaini would be one of the first names on the team sheet while ADM would struggle to get a start?) so I try not to put much hope on anyone until I see them play well in a United shirt.
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What surprised me is its solid evidence we are in for the player, not just some vague rumour from a nobody. I just thought it would've brought a little more excitement.
 
Walrus said:
I dont regard the goals this season as proof of anything - he is their penalty and FK taker, and the Dutch league is not the strongest by a long stretch.

It is impressive, but not "he is definitely the next Messi" material.
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Being a good free kick taker is definitely a huge asset, he doesn't take penalties and only 2 of his 27 goals were from the spot.

There will be no next Messi for 20 years.
 
NL Max said:
He didn't like PSV their offer. He was going to be 2nd choice left winger behind Memphis for a year because they were going to sell the latter, Bakkali thought he was good enough already for a guaranteed start at age 17 - he wanted to play more even though he already played much more than intended. They wanted to make him one of the better paid players - he refused because he got better offers. He kept stalling and PSV gave him an ultimatum, he didn't renew so PSV put him on the transfer list. They accepted an offer from Atletico Madrid but he refused this.

As a result he's leaving on a free but will not have played for months.

Seemed a good talent, but he had something like 8 different agents already and loads more people influencing his decisions. He doesn't have the mentality, he might still become good but I doubt it. There have been many cases like him before in the ED who flopped.

Complete opposite to Memphis Depay. He also was too full of himself, but he never complained. He's working hard and stayed even though he had the option to go to Tottenham last year. He's a perfectionist and critisizes himself after matches. He got over his personal trouble and cut off all connections with people who were a bad influence on him (he used to be a 'bad boy' - tough youth, hanging on the streets, petty crimes etc.)

He has a plan to reach the top and so far he's taken the first few steps without too much trouble.
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Wow I've seen a bit of Bakkali and thought he is quite talented but he seems to be a pain in the arse. He is still young enough to change but like you I really doubt it. Such a waste though, and with him not playing for so long he might even have regressed, and that is hardly a good thing for a youngster.

Depay on the other hand seems to have quite a determination to succeed. I can learn a lot from him.
 
Be surprised if we don't get him, what with our financial muscle currently. Depay is going to be great for us, gut feeling.
 
NL Max said:
@Hernandez - BFA
Don't think so, especially not under van Gaal. He's never played as a striker before and I don't think he fits van Gaal's profile of a striker. To play as a striker for van Gaal he needs to be able to play with his back to goal and hold up the ball, he could maybe do this (but he's not the tallest) and it wouldn't make use of his strengths. Van Gaal likes real #9's like van Persie, he doesn't even like Messi as striker. So I seriously doubt he'd consider Memphis a striker.

He's a left winger who might play right winger (but again - that would limit him).
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Not necessarily. He's used Robben upfront quite effectively for the Dutch team. He tried something similar with Di Maria with not the same results.

But if we continue with 4-3-3 then I'd see Memphis playing as a left winger cutting in.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Not necessarily. He's used Robben upfront quite effectively for the Dutch team. He tried something similar with Di Maria with not the same results.

But if we continue with 4-3-3 then I'd see Memphis playing as a left winger cutting in.
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He never played Robben on his own up front. Always alongside RvP/Huntelaar - both fit his ideal of a striker. LW is Memphis position.
 
Rooney, Rvp or wilson central
Di Maria, deepay, Mata, Januzaj, young for the wings
Rooney, Mata, Fellaini or Januzaj behind the striker.
It would be a very solid and flexible group of players - possibly with another striker to add into the mix when falcao goes.
 
ivaldo said:
What surprised me is its solid evidence we are in for the player, not just some vague rumour from a nobody. I just thought it would've brought a little more excitement.
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I think there are so many false rumours that most people take everything related to transfers with a pinch of salt. Plus alot of players get hyped up so there's more distrust of these reports from other posters and sources online. That said, look at last years Vidal thread.
 
Flamingo Purple said:
Aside from the World Cup I've never seen him play so I'm naturally apprehensive. Can someone describe him to me?
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Short guy, very strong, not Bale fast but fast, right footed left winger, likes to shoot a lot, very high work rate, goes past players even if he doesn't know how, scores many goal. No, seriously the ball sometimes just sticks to his feet.

From the 8 or so PSV games I've watched this season he seems to miss a few easy chances although that's gotten better as the season progressed. It is also very apparent that sometimes he just over-complicates things when he has a much easier option available but that has also improved from last year. He's progressed very fast especially his end product. Now he's making much better decisions and is cutting the annoying things out of his game although there's still a lot to improve. Under van Gaal he would become a very good player.
 
I think it was @NL Max who said that, in the worst case scenario, Memphis would end up a Mirallas level player. So really, its a no brainier to buy him, especially for £20 odd million. At best, we end up with a player who develops into a world beater, at worst we end up with a great squad player who already knows what LVG demands (on and off the pitch).

Of course, he could completely flop, but that's the risk you take with any signing. And with his age, you'd imagine he'd still have some sort of decent resale value if that was to happen.
 
Gambit said:
He' an incredibly exciting signing.
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Is he any better than adnan though?
I'd like him to come but I wouldn't expect too much in his first season as he adjusts to the premier league... Still with adnan, Wilson, periera and Depay we would potentially have a lot of our attacking options in place for the next decade or so If they all developed well
 
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