[Shark]

They do. Januzaj has been disappointing for over a year now. I only used him as an example of a player I would be more forgiving of being inconsistent because there was a time when I felt he played well for us. All Depay has going for him is performances in a nothing league and a game against the worst team we've faced all season against whom even Rooney in the worst form of his career scored a hat trick. Even players just struggling to adjust will normally show what they have in their locker. I don't see it with Depay. All I see is a wide player who struggles to beat players, doesn't pass the ball very well and has erratic shooting.

Me too, but do we even know if he's a wide player yet? LVG has tested him as a number 10 too, which didn't work, but doesn't mean he won't be tried there again by our next manager and does better. Who really knows how he'll turn out, but he has shown glimpses of why we purchased him and I'd trust he's the right people around him to help him kick on next season. The club certainly won't be giving up on him anytime soon, given the investment alone.

 

[prarek]

Next season. First season is very harsh to judge him.

 

[devilish]

And yet I never felt that way about Darron Gibson or Kieran Richardson. Bias has nothing to do with it. Would you think Depay was an extremely talented player if he played for one of our rivals?

Januzaj has talent, gibson/Richardson did not

 

[acnumber9]

Januzaj has talent, gibson/Richardson did not

Which is the point I'm making that you seemed to think was routed in bias. I don't think Depay is as talented as Januzaj. Can you answer the question I asked? Honestly.

 

[devilish]

And yet I never felt that way about Darron Gibson or Kieran Richardson. Bias has nothing to do with it. Would you think Depay was an extremely talented player if he played for one of our rivals?

Januzaj has talent. The likes of Gibson and Richardson did not. That's the difference. Certain supporters tend to be a teeny weeny biased towards their own kids despite them not being very talented (Take Carragher or our OShea for example). If they have a decent amount of talent, than such bias is taken to ridiculous levels (think of Fowler, Fletcher, Butt etc). I still remember a Liverpool fan friend of mine claiming that Fowler was among the top 5 strikers of his generation.

What can I say about Depay? Stats do not lie so the boy does have talent. However much better players have failed to make an impact at top leagues. The likes of Bergkamp and Pancev were unwatchable in the Serie A. Its still early days to say that Depay cant cut it in the EPL. That doesn't mean we shouldn't bring in a first team winger if we need too because of him

 

[Cassidy]

And yet I never felt that way about Darron Gibson or Kieran Richardson. Bias has nothing to do with it. Would you think Depay was an extremely talented player if he played for one of our rivals?

Petty sure him being talented is based mainly on everything he did before coming to United? Which doesn't get erased due to a poor start to his United career.

 

[acnumber9]

Januzaj has talent. The likes of Gibson and Richardson did not. That's the difference. Certain supporters tend to be a teeny weeny biased towards their own kids despite them not being very talented (Take Carragher or our OShea for example). If they have a decent amount of talent, than such bias is taken to ridiculous levels (think of Fowler, Fletcher, Butt etc). I still remember a Liverpool fan friend of mine claiming that Fowler was among the top 5 strikers of his generation.

What can I say about Depay? Stats do not lie so the boy does have talent. However much better players have failed to make an impact at top leagues. The likes of Bergkamp and Pancev were unwatchable in the Serie A. Its still early days to say that Depay cant cut it in the EPL. That doesn't mean we shouldn't bring in a first team winger if we need too because of him

Stats can often lie. They would suggest Di Maria was good last season. Until he can do something outside of Holland then he has it all to prove. Your eyes don't lie and you still won't answer my question.

 

[acnumber9]

Petty sure him being talented is based mainly on everything he did before coming to United? Which doesn't get erased due to a poor start to his United career.

In a vastly inferior league. A league in which Dirk Kiyt has scored 13 in 16 games. That context needs to be applied to Depay's supposed talent.

 

[devilish]

Stats can often lie. They would suggest Di Maria was good last season. Until he can do something outside of Holland then he has it all to prove. Your eyes don't lie and you still won't answer my question.

It's doesn't show the entire truth but it give glimpses of what the player can do. For example this season we aren't creating any chances. Hence one should question whether it was wise to sell last season main assist man.

I think I've answered your question but there again my English is a bit shit. I wouldn't sell depay just yet because his stats in Holland are enough to justify another chance. However he hasn't shown enough to be considered as first team material. So if let's say the club has the opportunity to bring Griezmann in than they should do that with no hesitation. If depay is good enough he will win his place back

 

[devilish]

In a vastly inferior league. A league in which Dirk Kiyt has scored 13 in 16 games. That context needs to be applied to Depay's supposed talent.

Most of the leagues are inferior to the epl

 

[acnumber9]

Most of the leagues are inferior to the epl

Indeed. But we don't sign players from them often and then insist on pretending they're extraordinarily talented.

 

[Successful]

I dont know much about tattoo's but I am pretty sure it had little to do with evolution..
Keane pretty much said the same thing but it had less gangbangers in it. It goes something like before you act like you're all that. You have to do all that and win all that.
I totally get what he meant, Memphis has been rubbish all season but he acts like he's King of that clan..

Exactly. Thank you very much for that. People who don't understand a word of what I wrote must have a lot to learn about life.

 

[Cassidy]

In a vastly inferior league. A league in which Dirk Kiyt has scored 13 in 16 games. That context needs to be applied to Depay's supposed talent.

Not sure what you're getting at most players who end up in the PL come from inferior leagues. The guy has talent, whether he can realise such talent and become a top player is another story all together

 

[acnumber9]

Not sure what you're getting at most players who end up in the PL come from inferior leagues. The guy has talent, whether he can realise such talent and become a top player is another story all together

It should be pretty obvious. Basing an opinion he's going to be great on how well he did in Holland as opposed to how terribly he's playing now is stupid. I'm not convinced at this talent because he hasn't displayed it outside of games against incredibly weak opposition.

 

[devilish]

Indeed. But we don't sign players from them often and then insist on pretending they're extraordinarily talented.

His stats in Holland were phenomenal

 

[acnumber9]

His stats in Holland were phenomenal

So are Dirk Kuyt's.

 

[devilish]

So are Dirk Kuyt's.

Who wasn't a bad player for Liverpool at all

 

[acnumber9]

Who wasn't a bad player for Liverpool at all

He's also considerably older now. And he was never one of the most gifted attackers in Europe. He's second in the scoring charts at the minute behind Premier League legend Luke De Jong.

 

[ivaldo]

It should be pretty obvious. Basing an opinion he's going to be great on how well he did in Holland as opposed to how terribly he's playing now is stupid. I'm not convinced at this talent because he hasn't displayed it outside of games against incredibly weak opposition.

Almost as stupid as completely writing off a 21 year old whos played the equivalent of less than 15 competitive matches for us.

 

[tarjei2k]

A player really is only as good as his last match around here, isn't he? He's 21 and playing in a new league ffs.

Well, I'm glad none of you have anything to do with the decision-making in or around the club, to put it that way. I'm comfortable with the fact that most of the people in the know in regards to footballing matters seem to regard Depay as one of the greater talents in eorld football.

Doesn't mean he will come good, of course, but I do choose to believe that it warrants him a great deal more patience than many of you seem to be allowing him.

 

[Fazer]

Has anyone noticed in the past few games that Memphis has tried to be more direct,
as in trying to run at the opposing defenders at speed ala Martial?
Seems to be taking more shots from outside the box as well, hasn't really scored
from those but at least he is trying.
I believe that he should be a better fit to our team next season.

 

[simonhch]

I think he is just guilty of trying too hard. He plays in a team that doesn't take risks, yet his game is built around dribbling and beating a man which is essentially a high risk endeavour. He looks like he goes into half his dribbles with fear, knowing if he loses the ball he's going to get bollocked and dropped. Completely the wrong mind set for winger. It's the same affliction Di Maria suffered from when he was here, but luckily one that hasn't struck Martial....who is just a force of nature.

I think he will come good. He just needs a run, some time, and to keep working hard. He's got the talent.

 

[Halftrack]

Ah so he's got the wrong ethnic background go be allowed one then...

I don't know, but that's what I got from Succesful's post, given that he only highlighted people who looked black or Mexican. I, personally, couldn't care less how he looks. He doesn't really dress any different from other young men around his age, and tattoos are very fashionable these days, so I think it's retarded to use his style/tattoos against him.

 

[KikiDaKats]

The one sensible comment and it just slips under the radar.

True. He needs to go back to basics.

 

[Rykker_4united]

He's had a handful of games where he wasn't good. Some of them, he tried to hard. Others, he didn't try hard enough. He's a young lad who is immensely skilled but he's inconsistent, he's raw, but he's not as bad as everyone is making him out to be. I have a lot of faith that he will come good.

 

[Fazer]

Has anyone noticed in the past few games that Memphis has tried to be more direct,
as in trying to run at the opposing defenders at speed ala Martial?
Seems to be taking more shots from outside the box as well, hasn't really scored
from those but at least he is trying.
I believe that he should be a better fit to our team next season.

 

[Cassidy]

It should be pretty obvious. Basing an opinion he's going to be great on how well he did in Holland as opposed to how terribly he's playing now is stupid. I'm not convinced at this talent because he hasn't displayed it outside of games against incredibly weak opposition.

Where the feck have I even said that? I said he has talent, whether he can realise that talent at this level remains to be seen

 

[acnumber9]

Where the feck have I even said that? I said he has talent, whether he can realise that talent at this level remains to be seen

I never said you did but are you paying attention to the conversation that was going on around the post you quoted?

 

[acnumber9]

Almost as stupid as completely writing off a 21 year old whos played the equivalent of less than 15 competitive matches for us.

I haven't completely written him off. Just doubting this supposed unquestionable talent. So as you were.

 

[ivaldo]

I haven't completely written him off. Just doubting this supposed unquestionable talent. So as you were.

But you have, you can pretend all you like you're being balanced but it's evidently clear what you think of him, you've thrown aside his past achievement and downplayed entirely anything hes done in recent weeks (Newcastle) to instead concentrate on slight negatives.

 

[acnumber9]

But you have, you can pretend all you like you're being balanced but it's evidently clear what you think of him, you've thrown aside his past achievement and downplayed entirely anything hes done in recent weeks (Newcastle) to instead concentrate on slight negatives.

But I haven't. I don't think he's very good based on what I've seen. He could prove me wrong. It's like it's a crime to rate a player under the age of 22. He's a lot to do and anyone clinging to his record in Holland is bonkers.

 

[ivaldo]

But I haven't. I don't think he's very good based on what I've seen. He could prove me wrong. It's like it's a crime to rate a player under the age of 22. He's a lot to do and anyone clinging to his record in Holland is bonkers.

After the equivalent of 15 games... under a new manager, playing a new style of football, in a team that is struggling to create chances, in a new country, with a new language, at the age of 21.

 

[acnumber9]

After the equivalent of 15 games... under a new manager, playing a new style of football, in a team that is struggling to create chances, in a new country, with a new language, at the age of 21.

A fine list of excuses. He's played for Van Gaal before and he's supposed to be one of the ones creating chances. He also speaks English. The proof will be in the pudding so I'll draw a line under it for now. How many games before we can judge somebody?

 

[Borys]

"He obviously is very talented" is where we differ. For me he's about Lingard level, and I don't think he's anything special.

Not sure I'm allowed to express my opinion or should I wait until... When exactly?

 

[KikiDaKats]

A fine list of excuses. He's played for Van Gaal before and he's supposed to be one of the ones creating chances. He also speaks English. The proof will be in the pudding so I'll draw a line under it for now. How many games before we can judge somebody?

At the end of his career at United not the start. He is still at a formative age in his career, his early responsibility at PSV is not the norm for a young football. I am not saying people should be patient or arguing his talent because I don't believe he is highly talented but let's allow him to get playing football.
In the same way you feel he is not lived up to expectations, there is bound be people that feel strongly about creating the right environment for an individual to flourish. The environment right now is quite toxic, the constant sniping and rubbishing of his past achievement cannot be helping anyone.. Would like to believe people should be using it to remind him of what he is capable of as a motivational tool.

 

[acnumber9]

At the end of his career at United not the start. He is still at a formative age in his career, his early responsibility at PSV is not the norm for a young football. I am not saying people should be patient or arguing his talent because I don't believe he is highly talented but let's allow him to get playing football.
In the same way you feel he is not lived up to expectations, there is bound be people that feel strongly about creating the right environment for an individual to flourish. The environment right now is quite toxic, the constant sniping and rubbishing of his past achievement cannot be helping anyone.. Would like to believe people should be using it to remind him of what he is capable of as a motivational tool.

So we can't rate a single player in football until the end of their career? That's stupid. I can assure you that anything said on an Internet forum that Depay has likely never heard of let alone read is making any difference to his career. It's up to him to make it work not the fans questioning how good he is.

 

[ivaldo]

A fine list of excuses. He's played for Van Gaal before and he's supposed to be one of the ones creating chances. He also speaks English. The proof will be in the pudding so I'll draw a line under it for now. How many games before we can judge somebody?

Yeah excuses, let's pretend none of these things matter to a young person, that he speaks perfect English and is well adjusted to a new country and culture, let's even pretend he's a creator and not a quite obviously a finisher, whatever suits the arguement hey?

 

[acnumber9]

Yeah excuses, let's pretend none of these things matter to a young person, that he speaks perfect English and is well adjusted to a new country and culture, let's even pretend he's a creator and not a quite obviously a finisher, whatever suits the arguement hey?

That's exactly what they are. Is there a tangible point where we can question him? He's played for Van Gaal, he speaks enough of the language to play football. You're acting as if we've taken a farmer from Mongolia and asked him to perform open heart surgery. He's a wide player. It's part of the job description.

 

[K2K]

He might go either way.

The Dutch league is a very poor one. We've seen plenty of players from there that have come here and flopped mightily. Alfonso Alves, Ryan Babel and Luuk de Jong (after his German stint). So the fear that he could also fail is a real one. He's also struggled for the majority of his games here, leading to him being hooked of at HT or being benched.

Alternatively, he was rated amongst the top young talents in Europe and attracted the attention of many European powerhouses. He was decent in Europe last season too, and performed well for his NT. His playing for a side that creates very few chances, and a philosphy that isnt working in this league.

It really can go either way.People just want to pick a side to be right later on.

 

[Dans]

Good post.

That was a good post - but it begs the question, why did VG buy him?