McTominay (Out) | announced - signed for Napoli

[NZT-One]

Keep

Against the bigger teams we need to stop playing Bruno Fernandes in a midfield 3 because it just so so obviously doesn't work. Need 3 proper CM's against these teams and I thought McTominay did that well when United actually did it for once in the FA Cup Final.

Then McTominay shouldn't even be in the conversation.

I think Zirkzee has probably taken his role and he’ll go this summer. I actually have mixed feelings. Last season was his best by far and he’s likeable but he’s so limited on the ball and isn’t any good at winning the ball either. He’s a Fellaini plan B lump it into him and hope for the best. I hope he finds a good club and he has a really good career. He’s done his best here and deserves our best wishes but we need a higher technical level across the board

It may have been his best in terms of individual goal scoring. FFS guys, how is it possible to act as if he was good last year? Next to no player was good last year. Certainly not Scott McTominay.

He should be sold. Urgently. If this new regime of ‘football people’ think we should be rejecting bids for him this summer on the basis of him being an important member of the squad then they receive a vote of no confidence from me as early as this summer. Would be already clear that they are not taking us in the direction we need to be going in.

100% same here.

 

[baskinginthesun]

If he is ever on the pitch for us, it’s a band aid. There’s no vision attached to it, nothing more than trying to get us through that particular 90 mins. Which is what we need to start moving away from. It’s not about the cliché of taking football one game at a time, or take each game as they come. Stop viewing games as individual entities and view them as part of the necessary journey to develop ourselves into the team we are needing to become. Playing Scott, even if he gets us points in any given game, is delaying the journey - a journey we should have been on years ago yet McTominay has probably started as many games, if not the most, out of any Manchester United centre midfielder in the last 5 or 6 years. Now while a winning goal may have felt good at the time, it ultimately took us nowhere of course, now imagine looking back at all those years and realising the team hasn’t been moving forward at all.

It would have been better to ‘invest’ games in a different player who will ultimately take us towards our vision. Even if he didn’t positively impact the result in a given game in 2018, the picture needs to be bigger than the next 90mins. From what I read, that is the whole point of these Technical Director people that fans have been pining for for years, so I’d be very disappointed if Wilcox doesn’t want Scott out, and would question if he has a vision at all beyond hopefully nicking 3 points at the weekend because that is the only purpose Scott serves - although we also know that he’s obviously not going to nick enough points for us to win major silverware so why even persist with it from now? Think about what WILL get us there, and invest those games in that direction. We are better off finishing 6th with players who play in a manner we think will eventually see us to 1st, otherwise we are simply just treading water. Get rid.

Ok. I get it, you don't like him.

He netted us an extra 7 points from his goals last season which for a very limited midfielder (which everybody seems to say) is an extremely good stat to have. If scoring important goals and turning draws into wins is a limited ability then maybe hang on to him for a bit until a proper replacement can be found.

He also stays relatively injury free which enables him to play in more matches.

 

[Rozay]

Ok. I get it, you don't like him.

He netted us an extra 7 points from his goals last season which for a very limited midfielder (which everybody seems to say) is an extremely good stat to have. If scoring important goals and turning draws into wins is a limited ability then maybe hang on to him for a bit until a proper replacement can be found.

He also stays relatively injury free which enables him to play in more matches.

Those 7 points helped us secure an 8th placed finish. So whatever we are doing, it’s probably not the best way to approach our football matches. If we play a game which surrenders midfield battles and has Scott on the field in the hope that he’ll get on the end of something - he couldn’t possibly get on the end of enough to make it worthwhile and not often enough for us to win the league. So ask yourself, how do we need to play in order to win the league, and then ask how Scott fits with that, if at all?

Ole used to win us points off the bench. He wasn’t contradictory to our general philosophy, he was just not as good as those who used to start. I don’t think that’s the case with Scott. Our moves need to be directed by our ambition, and by what we need to become that team. Not who the best players were in a team that finished 8th necessarily.

 

[Superden]

O'Shea was not a gifted footballer. He was a good defender and a great lad but a gifted footballer he was not. I'm all for selling McTominay if we can get a good fee but what is with these weird comparisons?

Can't agree with that. Oshea had technique and football intelligence othweise he wouldn't have been able to play so many positions, or hold is on in a squad that was up there with any other at the time.

 

[honirelandboy]

The reality is he is no where near good enough, even as a squad player. If we don't have enough squad depth in midfield this Summer we will have to keep him. There is no excuses of the Summer of the 2025 when we qualify for the champions league and he is still in the squad. If someone offers 30 million this summer INEOS should get on their knees and unzip whoever is in front of them.

 

[honirelandboy]

O'Shea was not a gifted footballer. He was a good defender and a great lad but a gifted footballer he was not. I'm all for selling McTominay if we can get a good fee but what is with these weird comparisons?

O'Shea would walk into this current United team, O'Shea was an unbielvable player when he was with us. If you think otherwise you must live on a different planet.

The current squad made Johnny Evans look good last season.

 

[TwoSheds]

Can't agree with that. Oshea had technique and football intelligence othweise he wouldn't have been able to play so many positions, or hold is on in a squad that was up there with any other at the time.

McTominay's touch and technique are much better than O'Shea's and nobody is going to claim he's a gifted footballer. I suppose you could make a case that O'Shea was a better passer / crosser. It's almost like you just watched O'Shea's highlights on YouTube and made a judgement on his whole career.

 

[TwoSheds]

O'Shea would walk into this current United team, O'Shea was an unbielvable player when he was with us. If you think otherwise you must live on a different planet.

The current squad made Johnny Evans look good last season.

Evans was and is a significantly better footballer than O'Shea. I can't believe I'm even having this debate, I'm a big O'Shea fan. He just wasn't a baller at all.

 

[Superden]

McTominay's touch and technique are much better than O'Shea's and nobody is going to claim he's a gifted footballer. I suppose you could make a case that O'Shea was a better passer / crosser. It's almost like you just watched O'Shea's highlights on YouTube and made a judgement on his whole career.

Or I watched him through his whole career?

 

[Rob Bowman]

All fair points apart from the elephant in the room..McTom just doesn't have the skillset to play as midfielder for a top club, the comparison with O'Shea is off, as he was a more gifted footballer

I agree McT is not as gifted but I like his spirit and he does score a fair amount of goals.

We can agree to disagree and we can all move forward, just some naff opinions anyway .

 

[McLvnsMuse]

Better teams have evolved past better players. Our continued reliance on Scott says a lot about how we’ve trended the past few seasons.

I can re-hash all my Fellaini criticisms from way back when - the good moments don’t justify the overall impact on how we play.

 

[devilish]

O'Shea was not a gifted footballer. He was a good defender and a great lad but a gifted footballer he was not. I'm all for selling McTominay if we can get a good fee but what is with these weird comparisons?

I was never a big fan of OShea but he had a skillset that made him appropriate for the positions he played in. McT's skillset is weird. He's got an eye for goal but he lacks the technique of a no 10. He's got great physique but he lacks the work rate, the anticipation and the positioning of a DM and he lacks the passing range and the energy to play as a B2B player. 25m is a good fee for him considering that he's already 27 and it would represent pure profit. That's the first installment for a 70m player

 

[baskinginthesun]

Those 7 points helped us secure an 8th placed finish. So whatever we are doing, it’s probably not the best way to approach our football matches. If we play a game which surrenders midfield battles and has Scott on the field in the hope that he’ll get on the end of something - he couldn’t possibly get on the end of enough to make it worthwhile and not often enough for us to win the league. So ask yourself, how do we need to play in order to win the league, and then ask how Scott fits with that, if at all?

Ole used to win us points off the bench. He wasn’t contradictory to our general philosophy, he was just not as good as those who used to start. I don’t think that’s the case with Scott. Our moves need to be directed by our ambition, and by what we need to become that team. Not who the best players were in a team that finished 8th necessarily.

He was also part of the team that placed 3rd with ETH and 2nd Under Ole. He was also subbed on when we one the League Cup last year and started when we won the FA Cup this year. In other words, he's a seasoned pro now and whatever he brings to the team must be enough that he continues to get picked.

I don't disagree with the fact that he should move on. I think he should, mainly because as you rightly pointed out United need to be ambitious and build a team that can go toe to toe with Man City and Real Madrid in the CL and he's not quite the player we need to do that.

However, if ETH and the club said we need to keep him I wouldn't be bothered by that.

 

[Midrich]

I was never a big fan of OShea but he had a skillset that made him appropriate for the positions he played in. McT's skillset is weird. He's got an eye for goal but he lacks the technique of a no 10. He's got great physique but he lacks the work rate, the anticipation and the positioning of a DM and he lacks the passing range and the energy to play as a B2B player. 25m is a good fee for him considering that he's already 27 and it would represent pure profit. That's the first installment for a 70m player

Rubbish.

SAF made bad players look better than they actually were & normally regarded as an easier time for PL football.

John O'Shea, Silvestre, Quinton Fortune, Barthez, Nicky Butt, Tom Cleverley - i can go on and on.

Mctominay is on their level or even slightly ahead due to his international output and playing at a tougher time of the PL aswell.

I don't mind him leaving for a decent price because he is a good player to start for alot of PL clubs or just even be on our bench until we completely reshuffle our squad.

 

[devilish]

Rubbish.

SAF made bad players look better than they actually were & normally regarded as an easier time for PL football.

John O'Shea, Silvestre, Quinton Fortune, Barthez, Nicky Butt, Tom Cleverley - i can go on and on.

Mctominay is on their level or even slightly ahead due to his international output and playing at a tougher time of the PL aswell.

I don't mind him leaving for a decent price because he is a good player to start for alot of PL clubs or just even be on our bench until we completely reshuffle our squad.

SAF was a master in finding balance in the squad. He was obsessed by it to a point that he preferred playing Cleverley even though he knew he was going to lose a generational talent in Pogba for free in the process. That's because Cleverley provided the workrate we needed in that ageing midfield something that Pogba could not.

SAF would never play a player out of Lulz and in his prime he could be quite lethal. Butt was 10 times the player McT was and was sold at 29 while Phil left United in tears at age 28. Both were much better players then McT was and left in their late 20s (McT is 27). To compare McT to a WC winner is wrong. Barthez wasn't able to replace Schmeichel but he was certainly an excellent goalkeeper who had a stellar career.

As said before McT is not a bad player but his skillset is weird. He's got a huge frame that suggest he would make an excellent B2B or DM yet he lacks the workrate, the position, the anticipation and the passing ability to make that work. He's also got an excellent eye for goal. However a No 10 at a club like Manchester United needs more then that and United already have Bruno and Mount in that position. He's basically a British version of Fellaini.

If we want to return to our best then we need to switch from a player focused mentality to a Manchester United squad focused mentality. The manager's job shouldn't be one were he just fits the players he has in his disposal in but to assemble a squad with the right characteristics that can lead us to success

 

[Rozay]

He was also part of the team that placed 3rd with ETH and 2nd Under Ole. He was also subbed on when we one the League Cup last year and started when we won the FA Cup this year. In other words, he's a seasoned pro now and whatever he brings to the team must be enough that he continues to get picked.

I don't disagree with the fact that he should move on. I think he should, mainly because as you rightly pointed out United need to be ambitious and build a team that can go toe to toe with Man City and Real Madrid in the CL and he's not quite the player we need to do that.

However, if ETH and the club said we need to keep him I wouldn't be bothered by that.

He was. That is not the point. The question is, is his personal role something we need to build upon to become the best? That’s all. If the answer is ‘yes’, then keep him. My point is you shouldn’t keep him because he was a key contributor in a team that didn’t meet expectations and needs to be revised anyway.

If Lukaku scores the most goals in a defensive side that finishes 7th playing a certain way, who then get bought by billionaires intent upon building a team to win the PL and CL, it does not mean Lukaku will naturally be the main man for that team. His qualities will be assessed against the suitability for what they want to build, as opposed to what they currently are, given what they currently are is a long way off where they want to be anyway.

If the club say we need to keep him, then it would be clear that they haven’t, as of yet, happened upon a vision/model which they deem him unable to play a part in. And if they are not yet there, then I can say with all confidence that they are not yet going anywhere. McTominay could indeed stay, and score, and chase after a midfielder at the Etihad. But will the team win the league? Doubt it. Will that be the best team in the land? Unlikely. So until we are deliberately setting upon a path where McTominay in midfield is not compatible with, I can’t have any confidence that we will have stopped approaching our football game by game with no plan other than to try whatever we can do get over the line from match to match. Which won’t get us to where we want to go. So selling McTominay is, to me, as symbolic as much as anything else. Certainly if he is sold for the reasons I have given. I don’t just want him to be sold. I will gain the most confidence if he is sold because our team feel he does not fit in with our football. I will know then that finally, we are taking steps.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

Gala can't afford his transfer fee (we should be looking in excess of £30m) so can't see this happening, but also think he would not want his prime years in that league!

 

[Betson]

Would think that there would be premiership clubs interested , he may not be very top level but he is still a decent player that would improve many premier league clubs.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Would think that there would be premiership clubs interested , he may not be very top level but he is still a decent player that would improve many premier league clubs.

He stinks of a Sean Dyche signing (if they didn't have FFP issues).

 

[MadDogg]

O'Shea was not a gifted footballer. He was a good defender and a great lad but a gifted footballer he was not. I'm all for selling McTominay if we can get a good fee but what is with these weird comparisons?

Calling O'Shea a more gifted footballer than McTominay isn't necessarily the same as calling him a gifted footballer.

O'Shea was comfortably better in his main position (anywhere in defence) than McTominay is in his main position. Hell, a fairly decent argument could be had that O'Shea was better in midfield as well.

 

[jeepers]

Moyes is no longer the manager of a PL club. Everton won’t blow 20-30m on him. Nobody’s going to buy him.

 

[hobbers]

We should have accepted the bid last year. We're never getting close to that now with a year less, and no one in the Prem bar Moyes would want him.

 

[MadDogg]

Rubbish.

SAF made bad players look better than they actually were & normally regarded as an easier time for PL football.

John O'Shea, Silvestre, Quinton Fortune, Barthez, Nicky Butt, Tom Cleverley - i can go on and on.

Mctominay is on their level or even slightly ahead due to his international output and playing at a tougher time of the PL aswell.

I don't mind him leaving for a decent price because he is a good player to start for alot of PL clubs or just even be on our bench until we completely reshuffle our squad.

McTominay on the same level or ahead of Barthez and Nicky Butt? Seriously? The others I can understand (even though I would disagree with O'Shea and Silvestre), but Barthez and Butt were far better.

 

[led_scholes]

When O'Shea was nutmegging Figo, making saves vs Tottenham (while keeping a clean sheet) and lobbying Lehman, other PL players were still trying to figure out how to control the ball.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Th

Moyes is no longer the manager of a PL club. Everton won’t blow 20-30m on him. Nobody’s going to buy him.

Thank you! You're absolutely right but there are still many idiots on here who think we should get 40m for him.

None of the idiots have suggested which club(s) would spend that sort of money when asked though

 

[Rozay]

I’m reading that we are planning on offering him a new deal. Which would mean this lot is as clueless as the last lot as far as I’m concerned.

 

[andersj]

I’m reading that we are planning on offering him a new deal. Which would mean this lot is as clueless as the last lot as far as I’m concerned.

Laughing out loud.

 

[Rozay]

Laughing out loud.

Hope you are able to also laugh next May.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Thank you! You're absolutely right but there are still many idiots on here who think we should get 40m for him.

None of the idiots have suggested which club(s) would spend that sort of money when asked though

Fulham, if they get priced out of a move for Smith-Rowe. Everton, if they sell Branthwaite. Brentford, if they sold Toney. Pretty much any mid table club if they've made some cash from player sales. You're acting like Moyes is the only manager on the planet who rates Mctominay, when in fact they wouldn't have gone in for him (or Maguire) had they not just gotten 105m for Declan Rice.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Fulham, if they get priced out of a move for Smith-Rowe. Everton, if they sell Branthwaite. Brentford, if they sold Toney. Pretty much any mid table club if they've made some cash from player sales. You're acting like Moyes is the only manager on the planet who rates Mctominay, when in fact they wouldn't have gone in for him (or Maguire) had they not just gotten 105m for Declan Rice.

So you think Fulham, Everton or Brentford will spend 40m on McTominay?

Fulham have never spent more than 25m on anyone. Everton are skint and are unlikely to sell Branthwaite (as we're discovering throughout our pursuit) and Brentford have just smashed their transfer record on Tiago for 30m. Expecting 30-40m for McTominay is very ambitious in my opinion.

Thank you for actually providing some examples though.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

So you think Fulham, Everton or Brentford will spend 40m on McTominay?

Fulham have never spent more than 25m on anyone. Everton are skint and are unlikely to sell Branthwaite (as we're discovering throughout our pursuit) and Brentford have just smashed their transfer record on Tiago for 30m. Expecting 30-40m for McTominay is very ambitious in my opinion.

Thank you for actually providing some examples though.

If Brentford or Everton make a significant player sale this summer, then yes. Not sure what point you're trying to make about Fulham as I guarantee they will pay 30m or more for a player this summer, whether that's Smith-Rowe or another midfielder.

 

[DWelbz19]

We should be pushing him out, alongside Eriksen and Casemiro. Not angling for new deals. Frustrating that we will never properly sort out this midfield

 

[Plant0x84]

If we get anything near what West Ham offered last year, we MUST sell him.

I don’t think the supporters trust will want to buy him.

 

[Woodzy]

We should be pushing him out, alongside Eriksen and Casemiro. Not angling for new deals. Frustrating that we will never properly sort out this midfield

We can’t get rid of everyone and replace them in one window. If we keep McTominay for a year with mostly the same role as last season (which was for the most part coming off the bench) then it’s not the end of the world.

 

[DWelbz19]

We can’t get rid of everyone and replace them in one window. If we keep McTominay for a year with mostly the same role as last season (which was for the most part coming off the bench) then it’s not the end of the world.

He has 1+1 year left. We aren’t going to keep him without a contract extension. I’m almost certain if he doesn’t leave this summer he will sign a new contract

 

[Devil81]

Can we not just accept certain players are decent squad options. He is more than good enough to play 20 games a season in lesser games for us.

 

[Rozay]

We can’t get rid of everyone and replace them in one window. If we keep McTominay for a year with mostly the same role as last season (which was for the most part coming off the bench) then it’s not the end of the world.

Is this actually the case though? People say every year that his standards effectively don’t matter because he’s just a squad player, yet I am confident that he has started as many games as any central midfielder for us over the last 6 years or so.

 

[iHicksy]

McTominay on the same level or ahead of Barthez and Nicky Butt? Seriously? The others I can understand (even though I would disagree with O'Shea and Silvestre), but Barthez and Butt were far better.

Indeed, wild saying Mctominay is on Butt's level. Butt was a quality player and would have been first choice if not for Keane. He was only sold because he wanted first team football and Fergie wouldn't stand in his way - not to mention Barthez who was a world cup winning GK and first choice for club and country. Silvestre was also absolute quality at CB and LB.

 

[Woodzy]

Is this actually the case though? People say every year that his standards effectively don’t matter because he’s just a squad player, yet I am confident that he has started as many games as any central midfielder for us over the last 6 years or so.

I’d say he started much less last year than most previous years. I may be wrong and I’m too lazy to look up the stats but he definitely played a bit-part role (and let’s not forget the goals).

Even the year before, he had a slight spell where he kept Casemiro out of the team when we signed him and then went back to the bench for the most part.

I’m far from his biggest fan, and think we should accept any reasonable bid that comes in, but we shouldn’t sell him for peanuts and I think it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if he remained a squad player until we get another summer window to bring in more depth:

 

[Robindinho]