McKenna or Tuchel?

Zen86 said:
That’s the thing, he can have all the ability in the world but if he can’t command the respect of the egos in the dressing room his ideas will always struggle to materialise. We have some players who really need reining in and I don’t think he’s quite at that level yet. He still needs to take another step up before leading a club like United.
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Who are these egos though? Maguire, Shaw, Bruno and Rashford are basically all the senior players we have (assuming that Lindelof, Eriksen, Martial and Casemiro leave). Bruno is an extremely professional player, Maguire will probably leave soon too. Shaw might be lots of things, but having a huge ego is not one of those, and while it is trendy to hate Rashford nowadays, he is a good guy too.

We do not have a team full of primAdonis. Actually we have a relatively young team. It might not be good enough, but that’s another debate.
 
theatreofdreams777 said:
How is that even a question? Didn't we learn our lesson from the awful Ole experiment? This shows how out of touch some United fans are with the reality. We seriously need a top coach who competed at the highest level; not a guy who's new in management and was working as a scout, academy coach or assistant coach just 2-3 years ago.

Managers who have no pedigree and are novices who have to learn on the job shouldn't be appointed at Man United. We completely wasted our years with Ole and simply can't afford another experiment like it.

Even if it isn't Tuchel, it definitely shouldn't be McKenna either. He's far too unproven and also a part of the past failing regimes. Try to get the best candidate possible.
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We've had 2 of those in the last decade and that didn't work out
 
Carlo1963 said:
I hope you will indulge me in giving a Town fan’s point of view about Kieran McKenna.

First of all it is natural not to take much of an interest in the leagues below yours. Since being promoted from League One in 2023 I’ve had zero interest in League One, whereas in that year it had my undivided attention. So whilst Man Utd fans will have seen McKenna doing well you probably won’t know much about how it’s happened, or how well he’s done.

Since 2021 Ipswich have had an excellent structure in place, cash-rich respectful American owners who enthusiastically keep their distance, a ‘wise-old-head’ chairman and a surprisingly brilliant CEO. Together they have completely rejuvenated the club, all of which has helped McKenna thrive. But he has been the biggest star and believe me he is as good if not better than the hype. Players rave about his attention to detail, and his effectiveness at coaching them. Look how he has turned League One players into Premiership-bound ones, look how they fight for him, look how much he has improved Omari Hutchinson from Chelsea for example. Look at the exciting, attacking football we play, that he preaches. It’s no coincidence we score so many late goals to win matches – not least because he always substitutes two or three attacking players around the 60 minute mark, just when our opponents are tiring. He knows what he wants from the team and chooses players who will suit it. Every player knows they will play at some point, be it from the start or in the second half. He also comes over very well in interviews and is calm and sensible.

At the start of this season I was confident we would finish around the play-offs with him in charge, we surpassed that. With him in charge I am confident we will finish around 10th in the Premier League; you may think I am mad but this is my club. We are not a Burnley or a Sheffield United, although we may be more similar to a Leeds Utd under Bielsa.

So I say, he will be a perfect coach for your club one day, but please give him a year or two at Ipswich first! Let him be an “Aberdeen Alex Ferguson” for us in the meantime. You won’t even need to poach him, he’s coached for you and is a lifelong Man Utd fan anyway.

Thanks for listening.
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Solid post & now I’ve got some good reasons to pull for Ipswich
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I'm confused on what this means, let's not sign the best coaches?
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"We seriously need a top coach who competed at the highest level" - 2 CL winning coaches is the definition of top coaches who competed at the top level, it didn't work for us, I don't think that is or should be the criteria, of all the managers we might employ next only Tuchel really fits that bill, the people in charge need to determine how they want the team to play and select a manager that is most likely to get us there
 
Carolina Red said:
Pretty sure it’s been said to you already, but that doesn’t have any bearing on the next guy if we appoint an accomplished, experienced manager.
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See below to what I was responding to
 
From... What Carrick and Mckenna do? To Mckenna or Tuchel? ... life changes quickly
 
Red in STL said:
"We seriously need a top coach who competed at the highest level" - 2 CL winning coaches is the definition of top coaches who competed at the top level, it didn't work for us, I don't think that is or should be the criteria, of all the managers we might employ next only Tuchel really fits that bill, the people in charge need to determine how they want the team to play and select a manager that is most likely to get us there
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We've tried the hipster choice in Ten Hag and Rangnick, we have tried a consistent and experienced Premier League manager in Moyes, club legends. We have sort of done the gambit profile wise.

That doesn't mean that managers with a really good track record of success are suddenly something to avoid.
 
Carlo1963 said:
I hope you will indulge me in giving a Town fan’s point of view about Kieran McKenna.

First of all it is natural not to take much of an interest in the leagues below yours. Since being promoted from League One in 2023 I’ve had zero interest in League One, whereas in that year it had my undivided attention. So whilst Man Utd fans will have seen McKenna doing well you probably won’t know much about how it’s happened, or how well he’s done.

Since 2021 Ipswich have had an excellent structure in place, cash-rich respectful American owners who enthusiastically keep their distance, a ‘wise-old-head’ chairman and a surprisingly brilliant CEO. Together they have completely rejuvenated the club, all of which has helped McKenna thrive. But he has been the biggest star and believe me he is as good if not better than the hype. Players rave about his attention to detail, and his effectiveness at coaching them. Look how he has turned League One players into Premiership-bound ones, look how they fight for him, look how much he has improved Omari Hutchinson from Chelsea for example. Look at the exciting, attacking football we play, that he preaches. It’s no coincidence we score so many late goals to win matches – not least because he always substitutes two or three attacking players around the 60 minute mark, just when our opponents are tiring. He knows what he wants from the team and chooses players who will suit it. Every player knows they will play at some point, be it from the start or in the second half. He also comes over very well in interviews and is calm and sensible.

At the start of this season I was confident we would finish around the play-offs with him in charge, we surpassed that. With him in charge I am confident we will finish around 10th in the Premier League; you may think I am mad but this is my club. We are not a Burnley or a Sheffield United, although we may be more similar to a Leeds Utd under Bielsa.

So I say, he will be a perfect coach for your club one day, but please give him a year or two at Ipswich first! Let him be an “Aberdeen Alex Ferguson” for us in the meantime. You won’t even need to poach him, he’s coached for you and is a lifelong Man Utd fan anyway.

Thanks for listening.
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Great post, thank you!
 
Revan said:
When is the last time a manager did a double promotion (with pretty much the same team) in these leagues?
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Adkins at Southampton (took over in September of the League 1 season so it counts for me) and Lambert at Norwich.

I think the case for McKenna comes down to 2 things none of us are qualified to say:

1 - How did the players respond to him while he was here as assistant manager?
2 - Just how mediocre is the Ipswich squad? It looks quite poor for a non-playoff promoted side, but maybe some of the guys I'm not familiar with are more talented than they seem. But normally a team that gets promoted, you see genuine talents like Maatsen, Tella and then solid 15th place kind of midfielders like Cullen and Brownhill that you can somewhat scheme to mitigate their weaknesses (small and slow and technically bit meh, respectively). Ipswich look a level below that squad-wise unless the guys in the late 20s and early 30s are just late bloomers, which is fairly rare though not impossible.

I thought Ten Hag would probably do well here after got Ajax playing better off the ball in the CL and going to the Bernabeu and doing what few if any teams have done during the Kroos-Modric era, and yet we've been a mess all season. The squad has massive problems, but Ten Hag also did not address them well in the transfer market (should have thrown his body in front of the Mount deal and demanded a DM, Martial out on loan, a backup striker with at least some sort of tactical utility (false 9, target man, anything really) and a versatile defender).

So managers are basically always a question mark. Unlikely either Lambert or Adkins would have succeeded here obviously. I do think trying out a young manager makes sense generally. I like De Zerbi's insanity and that he'd get us passing the ball. Haven't seen a ton of McKenna's teams.
 
Carlo1963 said:
I hope you will indulge me in giving a Town fan’s point of view about Kieran McKenna.

First of all it is natural not to take much of an interest in the leagues below yours. Since being promoted from League One in 2023 I’ve had zero interest in League One, whereas in that year it had my undivided attention. So whilst Man Utd fans will have seen McKenna doing well you probably won’t know much about how it’s happened, or how well he’s done.

Since 2021 Ipswich have had an excellent structure in place, cash-rich respectful American owners who enthusiastically keep their distance, a ‘wise-old-head’ chairman and a surprisingly brilliant CEO. Together they have completely rejuvenated the club, all of which has helped McKenna thrive. But he has been the biggest star and believe me he is as good if not better than the hype. Players rave about his attention to detail, and his effectiveness at coaching them. Look how he has turned League One players into Premiership-bound ones, look how they fight for him, look how much he has improved Omari Hutchinson from Chelsea for example. Look at the exciting, attacking football we play, that he preaches. It’s no coincidence we score so many late goals to win matches – not least because he always substitutes two or three attacking players around the 60 minute mark, just when our opponents are tiring. He knows what he wants from the team and chooses players who will suit it. Every player knows they will play at some point, be it from the start or in the second half. He also comes over very well in interviews and is calm and sensible.

At the start of this season I was confident we would finish around the play-offs with him in charge, we surpassed that. With him in charge I am confident we will finish around 10th in the Premier League; you may think I am mad but this is my club. We are not a Burnley or a Sheffield United, although we may be more similar to a Leeds Utd under Bielsa.

So I say, he will be a perfect coach for your club one day, but please give him a year or two at Ipswich first! Let him be an “Aberdeen Alex Ferguson” for us in the meantime. You won’t even need to poach him, he’s coached for you and is a lifelong Man Utd fan anyway.

Thanks for listening.
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Do you think he could develop Antony into a Premier League player?
 
McKenna would be a long term project. He’s what 38? I read reports yesterday though that the players didn’t really like him or something like that.
 
DJ_21 said:
McKenna would be a long term project. He’s what 38? I read reports yesterday though that the players didn’t really like him or something like that.
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If we appoint him and the players feck around, who do we appoint next?
 
OverratedOpinion said:
We've tried the hipster choice in Ten Hag and Rangnick, we have tried a consistent and experienced Premier League manager in Moyes, club legends. We have sort of done the gambit profile wise.

That doesn't mean that managers with a really good track record of success are suddenly something to avoid.
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I'm not suggesting it should be avoided, all I'm saying it shouldn't be the sole criteria
 
OverratedOpinion said:
We've tried the hipster choice in Ten Hag and Rangnick, we have tried a consistent and experienced Premier League manager in Moyes, club legends. We have sort of done the gambit profile wise.

That doesn't mean that managers with a really good track record of success are suddenly something to avoid.
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Profiling managers by type than excluding them like this doesn't work.

It is like saying, "i dated a blonde haired girl and it didn't work. Never doing that again".

Maybe we recruited the wrong "experienced Premier League manager" or the wrong "hipster choice". Or maybe we recruited the right manager and the wrong time.
 
DJ_21 said:
McKenna would be a long term project. He’s what 38? I read reports yesterday though that the players didn’t really like him or something like that.
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Feck the players opinion. They’re headed out anyway.
 
bondsname said:
Feck the players opinion. They’re headed out anyway.
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Some of them are. The players always win. Look what’s happened with the last few managers… ETH seems like he has a decent relationship with most of them aswell. The young players will love him, Bruno gets on well with him.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
If we appoint him and the players feck around, who do we appoint next?
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Good question. McKenna could be one for the future but I don’t think he has the strictness or mentality for us right now. You have to be strong headed.
 
McKenna, Farke and Maresca have all done well in the Championship this season, but I don't think I'd have any of them among the leading contenders to replace Ten Hag. It's one of the biggest and most difficult jobs in football.
 
I think the best approach would to be go for Tuchel and see how McKenna fares in the PL, I've a feeling he'll be poached by Brighton should De Zerbi leave. If Tuchel doesn't work out then we'll have had time to see what McKenna's achieved and have a better understanding of his ceiling.

Tuchel's actually a far better option than I think any of us could really have hoped for given the state of the market at the minute. He's not quite Klopp or Guardiola level but he was easily 3rd best manager in the league. He's won titles domestically and internationally, he's a no brainer for me.
 
Infra-red said:
McKenna, Farke and Maresca have all done well in the Championship this season, but I don't think I'd have any of them among the leading contenders to replace Ten Hag. It's one of the biggest and most difficult jobs in football.
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Maresca obviously had a pretty good playing career and he was at Parma before he took over at Leicester, he's done a really good job there. Looks a very promising manager. Farke has already managed in the Premier League. Neither took a League One side to the Premier League in his first two full seasons before his 40th birthday. He's done something pretty exceptional. He's also a United fan and he's been at the club in various capacities for years so he knows this beast better than most. I don't think they compare at all.
 
At least, if it's crap under Mckenna he can hypnotise you to think you're doing great.
 
I think it might be too early for McKenna, but I have zero interest in Tuchel. Nothing enticing about his work at Bayern at all and has always seemed like a difficult character. If it's between those two, I'd take the risk and go for McKenna.

Then again, I'd happily take Tuchel over some other names rumoured like Southgate, so here we are.
 
AltiUn said:
I think the best approach would to be go for Tuchel and see how McKenna fares in the PL, I've a feeling he'll be poached by Brighton should De Zerbi leave. If Tuchel doesn't work out then we'll have had time to see what McKenna's achieved and have a better understanding of his ceiling.

Tuchel's actually a far better option than I think any of us could really have hoped for given the state of the market at the minute. He's not quite Klopp or Guardiola level but he was easily 3rd best manager in the league. He's won titles domestically and internationally, he's a no brainer for me.
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this x 2
 
gaffs said:
Profiling managers by type than excluding them like this doesn't work.

It is like saying, "i dated a blonde haired girl and it didn't work. Never doing that again".

Maybe we recruited the wrong "experienced Premier League manager" or the wrong "hipster choice". Or maybe we recruited the right manager and the wrong time.
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I'm unsure if you are reiterating what my post said or didn't read it the conversation. Either way yes.
 
Infestissumam said:
I think it might be too early for McKenna, but I have zero interest in Tuchel. Nothing enticing about his work at Bayern at all and has always seemed like a difficult character. If it's between those two, I'd take the risk and go for McKenna.

Then again, I'd happily take Tuchel over some other names rumoured like Southgate, so here we are.
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Exactly how I feel. The last part bothers me the most. It's picking Tuchel because he's the least shite, not because his football is great or because he has such potential long-term. I get that a lot of people want him as a placeholder so he can feck off after 2 years, but in my mind he's not a guy that builds a team, I would say he's the one that tears them down.

At the same time, who is the right choice.. If you want a manager that gets the players' respect and plays a decent brand of football, I'd say give Zidane a blank check this summer. That won't happen though, sadly. I wouldn't mind Xavi either although I'm not convinced he's a great manager. I liked that he utilized youth players.
 
VP89 said:
Ha, what
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He’s right though, McKenna is doing a great job but like countless managers that have done well and went to a bigger club and then you find out the job is too big for them.
Potter 2 years ago was thrown around here a lot and look what happened at Chelsea, Moyes being another example. McKenna should be nowhere near an option for us at this point in his career
 
DutchSerb said:
I wouldn't mind Xavi either although I'm not convinced he's a great manager. I liked that he utilized youth players.
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Sadly, I think his hand was forced on utilising youth due to their financial problems/levers etc. I agree that Tuchel would be the one to tear a team down though. I was/am hoping this is the trajectory we're trying to steer away from with a new structure/culture. Still leads me to believe that ETH will still be here next season due to the lack of quality in candidates willing to take on this job.
 
Munkehboi said:
Sadly, I think his hand was forced on utilising youth due to their financial problems/levers etc. I agree that Tuchel would be the one to tear a team down though. I was/am hoping this is the trajectory we're trying to steer away from with a new structure/culture. Still leads me to believe that ETH will still be here next season due to the lack of quality in candidates willing to take on this job.
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ETH staying so INEOS can steal Pep in 2025 ;)
 
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