Give it a rest now eh?
Wait see what happens then can argue the toss.
I think how people look at the manager situation depends on what they expect/want the new manager and structure to do. Do we want top 4 and challenging next season? Or are we accepting a couple of years of building and restructuring the team with mixed results to possibly end up in a much stronger position in a few seasons? I don't necessarily think they are mutually exclusive, but what outlook you have will change what type of manager you'd want and how patient you'd be.
I don't think it will be as bad as this season. One of the baffling things the last months is that it is really hard to see what the plan is, and that makes it a lot worse. As long as you see the results (i.e. good, entertaining football) and can see an end goal that makes sense I think patience levels would be higher. Also, if it was made clear from the leadership what the goals are that could help.The problem with spending a couple of yrs restructuring & rebuilding is that it would probably involve us having seasons that look like the one we're having now. Seeing how quickly ETH lost favour, I don't think a manager could survive a bad season.
What did you expect a newly promoted side to do? Finish in Europe? They get relegated back down 9/10 times, hardly a failure.
you can’t call someone crap just because they got a team promoted and then didn’t manage to stay in the next league up
If McKenna gets appointed people will want him fired by October.
….and gone by Christmas, together with Utd’s hopes of top 4
This. Not necessarily saying that McKenna would be the right choice, but if there ever were a time for us to gamble on an upcoming manager this would be now.I don't think it will be as bad as this season. One of the baffling things the last months is that it is really hard to see what the plan is, and that makes it a lot worse. As long as you see the results (i.e. good, entertaining football) and can see an end goal that makes sense I think patience levels would be higher. Also, if it was made clear from the leadership what the goals are that could help.
I don't think it will be as bad as this season. One of the baffling things the last months is that it is really hard to see what the plan is, and that makes it a lot worse. As long as you see the results (i.e. good, entertaining football) and can see an end goal that makes sense I think patience levels would be higher. Also, if it was made clear from the leadership what the goals are that could help.
Interesting that reports say Tuchel is interested in taking the job, whereas with McKenna, they report that United made the contact.
Yup, that's the balance and that was part of my point. Hopefully, a rebuild now will be a lot less reliant upon the manager with the new structure behind the scenes, so changing manager mid-rebuild should not affect the planning and progress too much. That has been the main thing to change and one of the huge issues the last ten years, no continuity from manager to manager. And seeing good football doesn't equal success, necessarily, but it depends on what you define as success for us at this moment in time. A trophy? Top 4? A title challenge? or just better than this season?Obviously it would be great if we could take our time on a rebuild and play good, entertaining football straight away. The question is what happens if we don't see such football... will fans then lose faith in the rebuild? Because if your view is that fans will only support a manager if they play good football quickly, then you're essentially saying that succeeding in the short term is the most important factor, since its the only way he'll survive long enough to see the rebuild through.
It’s a potentially fantastic move for him. If the new management gets recruitment right then that creates a great platform for him. He could stay at Ipswich and they could struggle, like Kompany and Burnley this season, then he has to spend another year in the Championship. Staying put is likely a bigger risk for him in terms of career trajectory.Not a good move for McKenna, hits his career trajectory hard if it doesn’t work out and there’s plenty of problems here to address.
To keep Ipswich up next season would take a miracle, I don't see them making a huge number of signings so the bulk of their squad is going to be the players that were in League 1. If McKenna is thinking about himself then it's probably best to move on now before he unfairly gets the tag of not being able to handle the PL when they're struggling.
I'd have him at the top of the list but he'd need a couple of years and I'm not sure he'd get that time and patience. But at least we should be able to see a clear plan of what he's trying to achieve unlike what we have currently.
You know him well do you?McKenna doesn't have the character for the Man Utd job. It's an absurd option.
Really if you watched Ipswich this season you would know just how good he has had them playing. He comes over very wellin interviews as well.I haven’t heard McKenna speak or have presence. Half of this managerial crap is presence, and we are crying out for that.
Give what a rest? INEOS choosing one way or another does not prove anything.
I have repeatedly argued that everything is a gamble, and so is hiring McKenna. INEOS might not go for this gamble. You argued that Arsenal trusting Arteta, who had never managed a club, was not a gamble. Which is what I found absurd. Does the fact Arsenal chose Arteta somehow make it not a gamble or validate your view that it wasn't gamble? He finished 8th in his first 2 seasons, he wasn't some immediate success.
It’s a potentially fantastic move for him. If the new management gets recruitment right then that creates a great platform for him. He could stay at Ipswich and they could struggle, like Kompany and Burnley this season, then he has to spend another year in the Championship. Staying put is likely a bigger risk for him in terms of career trajectory.
Seems everyone here likes McKenna, but a matter of bringing him now or in 1–2 years time
Again though, for the 100th time. 42% of promoted clubs get relegated and 90% of them get involved in the relegation battle.
Kompany just went through the average experience of a coach of a promoted club. Nothing better, nothing worse. If he failed at anything, it was to be above average, to punch above his weight. A failure for me, is to punch well below your weight. You know, like we're currently doing under Ten Hag. Kompany is hardly a failure. The fact he didn't save Burnley doesn't mean he would have done poorly with a much better club. Or that he is a poor manager.
Trying to survive with a newly promoted club is a huge challenge. And it's a challenge some managers are lucky to avoid. Pep is fantastic coach, perhaps the best ever, yet he has only ever coached Barca, Bayern and City. All clubs a the peak of their respective leagues when he took over. Never had a newly promoted club to keep up against the odds. Arteta has only coached Arsenal. Would Arteta of 3-4 years ago, have done better with Burnley this season. Debatable. I would argue, no. Yet now he's considered one of the best young coaches.
If Arsenal took a bet on Arteta, why is McKenna a more risky bet for United?
In my opinion there are two lines of thought here, both equally valid.
A- We let Mckenna improve elsewhere. Meanwhile we build our football structure so if or when we go for him both the club and the manager is up for the challenge
B- We use Mckenna's previous experience under Ole and Mou (and two implodes) to quickly identify and root the weed out. Let us not forget that most of our best in class people are still on gardening leave and once they are in it would take them months to fully identify our problems and work on them. The problem with that is that both the club and the manager need to fully understand and embrace that both parties are 'work in progress'
If INEOS can be the mature person in the room then I'll go for B. We need all the help and knowledge that we can get as we lack the budget to make unnecessary mistakes on the transfer market.
The save option is A. Let see how he does in PL with Ipswich. He has to be at least like what De Zebri done with Brighton. Modern exciting attacking football, mid table.
Mckenna is different to De Zerbi. De Zerbi was praised for his style of football (same as Mckenna). But his CV is hardly spectacular. De Zerbi failed at Palermo, he failed at Benevento, he did well with Sassuolo and then he moved to Shakhtar Donetsk which is, in my opinion, the strangest move I've ever seen tbh. Mckenna had been on the high since he became manager. He took Ipswich who were struggling at league 1 and he double their win rate. In just 3 years he earned 2 promotions. These are tangible results
The safe route for Mckenna is probably option A. Let another manager pick up the tab generated by this upheaval only for him to swoop in when the dust had been cleared and everyone is on the same page. However option B is probably what INEOS need. Berrada will join in July, Ashworth will join later on and a flood of new people will join in as well. None of them know what makes this squad tick, why they act the way they do and who are the ones who are the ones who have a tendency to switch on and off according to his own agenda so there's a real risk of them building a squad around an ahole who would simply switch off if things don't go according to his way. On paper ETH can be the guy. However the Dutch man is compromised (he's fighting for his job after all) and there's also that element of cultural clash that come into play. Mckenna on the other hand knows the English culture well, he had seen this squad implode twice and he can easily identify who are the rotten apples.
If INEOS are mature enough to understand that the manager is not the finishing product yet and are planning a surgical removal of what's wrong in United no matter how painful that may be then there's few people out there more suited then Mckenna.
It's obviously better to hire McKenna in 1-2 years time after he has a chance to prove himself in this league.
What if Brighton hire him first and whack on a crazy compensation fee? Expectations are low currently, I think now is the perfect time to take a calculated risk on a manager like McKenna.It's obviously better to hire McKenna in 1-2 years time after he has a chance to prove himself in this league.
He is pretty familiar with the PL, though. A lot more than ten Hag was. There are several examples of coaches who have done well in their first season in the PL as well. I don't really buy that point, especially considering McKenna.Great points. But the worry is the step up from Championship to PL. It's like ETH from Eredivisie to PL. There are huge differences. PL will eat you alive if you don't have enough experience and quality. ETH underestimate the PL a lot by bringing all his players who are more of Eredivisie standards. His style of play also not suitable for PL.
For Man Utd to appoint a manager, the candidate must be at least have been performing reasonably well in higher level. To me, let him try PL with Ipswich and must perform reasonably well i.e good football, mid table.
The other thing is we are in major transition dealing with big players with big egos. We need a manager with higher reputation and track records to at least able to gain respect and control the players until all the changes are implemented.
Once these are all done and if McKenna was still doing well with Ipswich in PL then it will be the right time.
He is pretty familiar with the PL, though. A lot more than ten Hag was. There are several examples of coaches who have done well in their first season in the PL as well. I don't really buy that point, especially considering McKenna.
The respect-point is a bit off to me as well. If he comes in and gets the team performing well, playing good football and getting solid results, will the players not respect him because he hasn't won a league or cup before? The players will be training with him every day, if he is as good a coach as people who have worked with him keep saying that will breed respect in a player group. People who know what they are doing command respect. Sure, he doesn't have the brand recognition of Pep, Klopp and the likes, but who does that are available? Only Tuchel, and he might not be available anymore after all. Of course, he will have to perform to get respect, but he would have to perform to a certain standard either way.
I don't think that will be as big of an issue as some people think. There has been big changes to the squad since then, and there will be more changes this summer. I think it'll come down to how quick we can get the new structure in place and working behind the scenes rather than the issues that plagued Rangnick. It might be too soon to add a coach like McKenna at this point in time given that the structure isn't in place, but if we go for another coach it'll always be a little "what if" for me with McKenna. I'm a notorious optimist so I have a feeling he could be our answer to the Artetas, Peps and Alonsos of the world. Unlikely, but still, I like him a lot.You must be forgotten that our players refuse to run and press under Rangnick. Rangnick had to revert back to Ole balls. There are also many half hearted performance from our players under other managers. We need a strong character manager in the interim, that's why Tuchel has been linked to us and is bookies favourite.
As for PL experience, I was referring to being a Manager managing the team. Make no mistake I have no problem if he was appointed. Just my opinion that it may be too soon for all parties.
I don't think that will be as big of an issue as some people think. There has been big changes to the squad since then, and there will be more changes this summer. I think it'll come down to how quick we can get the new structure in place and working behind the scenes rather than the issues that plagued Rangnick. It might be too soon to add a coach like McKenna at this point in time given that the structure isn't in place, but if we go for another coach it'll always be a little "what if" for me with McKenna. I'm a notorious optimist so I have a feeling he could be our answer to the Artetas, Peps and Alonsos of the world. Unlikely, but still, I like him a lot.
I don't disagree but I'm just stating the obvious really. Do you think you and many others will still be asking for McKenna if he gets Ipswich relegated? I get the overriding circumstances, and that it's expected almost for them to be relegated, but am I wrong?
Great points. But the worry is the step up from Championship to PL. It's like ETH from Eredivisie to PL. There are huge differences. PL will eat you alive if you don't have enough experience and quality. ETH underestimate the PL a lot by bringing all his players who are more of Eredivisie standards. His style of play also not suitable for PL.
For Man Utd to appoint a manager, the candidate must be at least have been performing reasonably well in higher level. To me, let him try PL with Ipswich and must perform reasonably well i.e good football, mid table.
The other thing is we are in major transition dealing with big players with big egos. We need a manager with higher reputation and track records to at least able to gain respect and control the players until all the changes are implemented.
Once these are all done and if McKenna was still doing well with Ipswich in PL then it will be the right time.
I would love Mckenna and he definitely deserves a chance to move up, he knows the prem and he knows and loves Utd, shame we didn't give it to him not Ragnick, the reason I do not think we should have McKenna though is the group of players we have, I am not sure how they would respond to him, I would like to think they were professional but the evidence is to the contrary, I think the fans would give him time, I think we would give anyone a fair crack as long as we can see progress.
If he did come in and part of me really hopes he does, I think he would need very strong backing and a constant presence from the board, Brailsford etc... to reinforce his authority
The risks are always there however I still think its far lower then when we signed ETH. Don't take me wrong I love Dutch football. Some of the finest players I've ever seen playing were Dutch. However these people are set in their way and they are pretty stubborn about it. Both ETH and LVG were obsessed with short CBs, Eredivisie players and they couldn't come out with a plan B to their plan A. Mckenna on the other hand had been incredibly adaptive at Ipswich switching things around multiple times. He understands the EPL, he understands the club, he knows the youth academy (he coached there) and the squad. If Mckenna walked into United then he would probably know more about how things really work inside the club as opposed to SJR, Brailsford, Blanc and Wilcox. That's the sort of experience we need at the club as we know very well that these players are more then capable to switch on and switch off according to how the manager act with them.
Regarding reputation that's not really important. As said this is a head coach role which is a clear downgrade to the manager's role. Transfers, discipline, hiring and firing of staff etc will all be handled by people who sit above Mckenna. What's important is his man management and his tactics.
ETH is old regime something INEOS should value. If we stick to ETH and he does badly next season then they won't be blamed for it. That's something to consider especially since we're going to kick a proper hornet nest by changing the football structure from top to bottom which in turn will cause unrest. Considering all that I think we should
a- stick to ETH for next season
b- I'd gather as much information of what went wrong at the club as humanely possible (interviews with Ole, Mou, Mckenna, Phelan, Carrick, Fletcher etc)
c- I'd make all the upheaval now. That include bringing all new people in and selling/sacking all the rotten apples
d- I'd open communication channels with Mckenna now so he'll know that we're keeping close tabs on him. We would get his opinion on whom we should sell and whom we should buy. That would motivate him to do better while keeping an eye on what's going on at our club
If ETH sink in such upheaval then tough luck. He would be just another failure from a failed regime.
That's pretty much what City did prior to Pep's arrival. They hired Pellegrini specifically to warm the bench (and take the hits) on Pep's behalf
