Matthijs de Ligt | Red Devil

criticalanalysis said:
I can agree with your first sentence but Martinez literally won the World Cup (where he was heavily involved throughout the tournament) and the Copa America this summer gone as the undisputed starter.
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He was mostly on the bench at the World Cup. He did not feature at all against France, came on in the second half against Croatia and Australia, started against Netherlands, Mexico. He definitely had a limited role and a very small one in the last two games.

Copa America yeah but I’d need to see him exposed more in big games to really have a shout at top 5.
 
I like it best when at least one CB has pace. So Yoro and Martinez or de Ligt? Although what feet do they all have? Lost track.
 
glazed said:
I like it best when at least one CB has pace. So Yoro and Martinez or de Ligt? Although what feet do they all have? Lost track.
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De Ligt isn't slow either
 
Leftback99 said:
My guess is we'll see more of him at LB this season. Don't disagree that's he's excellent on the ball.
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I can see that happening but we'd need Yoro for that to work well. If Martínez is playing left-back, it's likely that we switch to a back 3 in possession where De Ligt is deployed as the CCB, because of his leadership, organizer and communication skills, and due to the fact that he's too slow to be a wide defender and can easily get done 1v1 in the channels against any pacey attacker in a high line, so that should be a no go. Yoro is the only defender we have IMO that's perfect for this.

So it would be Martínez-De Ligt-Yoro in a back 3 in possession, with Dalot/Mazraoui inverting into the midfield next to Casemiro/whoever plays DM.

This would be a great trio to have in possession and for the high line, and also with Dalot/Mazraoui a great quartet for deep, box defending. The only two issues I see with it is Martínez as a wide defender wouldn't be as fast and athletic as you would ideally like, and would also be probably better at CCB so that he has more and better angles for his line breaking passes...but then De Ligt has to be deployed as a wide defender which won't end well.

It will be very interesting to see how our defense is set up both in and out of possession, and whether we add Branthwaite to the team next year, because he would be great as an LCB/LB/wide defender in a back 3 type, but then we'll have 4 quality CBs and it will be difficult to keep them all happy, although usually we have at least a few injuries so maybe actually more depth is actually needed.
 
Has scored a couple of real daisy cutters which you wouldn't expect for a CB, also that volley assist in Champions League against Lazio and that rocket from outside box against Bochum.
 
Sarni said:
He’s quite obviously not one of the best 5 defenders in the world, whilst being a very good player.

You can’t really have a claim to be a top 5 defender (or any other position for that matter) without ever being exposed to late stages CL / international tournaments football IMO.
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To be fair to Martinez he just won the Copa America while being one of Argentinas best players.
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
Had a new trainer every start of the season since he started in professional football.

2016/17 - Ajax - Peter Bosz
2017/18 - Ajax - Marcel Keizer
2018/19 - Ajax - Erik ten Hag
2019/20 - Juventus - Maurizio Sarri
2020/21 - Juventus - Andrea Pirlo
2021/22 - Juventus - Maximiliano Allegri
2022/23 - Bayern - Julian Nagelsmann
2023/24 - Bayern - Thomas Tuchel
2024/25 - United - Erik ten Hag
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That's almost impressive. Let's hope the trend continues next season
 
V.O. said:
I love how agricultural the strike looks (correct league for such technique of course).

He's basically hit a clearance into the top corner.
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Yeah that's the goal I referenced, what a hit
 
sired44 said:
I have the opposite expectations. I actually think he will be excellent for us.
I'm not sure what went wrong for him at Juventus but i wouldn't read too much into Bayern letting him go. They seem to have been making peculiar moves in the transfer market for around 3 or 4 years now.
Despite maybe a slight lack of pace, De Ligt has all the attributes to be awesome for us. Strong, good reader of the game, superb organiser, composed on the ball..... I think he will be a huge hit and at the end of the season - we will look at his transfer fee as an absolute steel.
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He had all that buzz coming out of Ajax and he's failed to nail down a place at two big cubs. The only hope is that EtH can unlock something like he did back then.
 
Sarni said:
He was mostly on the bench at the World Cup. He did not feature at all against France, came on in the second half against Croatia and Australia, started against Netherlands, Mexico. He definitely had a limited role and a very small one in the last two games.

Copa America yeah but I’d need to see him exposed more in big games to really have a shout at top 5.
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Of course 'limited' is subjective but I'd argue he was closer to heavily involved. Came on 60 mins against Saudi Arabia, started against Mexico, didn't play against Poland, came on 50mins against Australia, started against Netherlands (Quarters + extra time), came on 62 mins against Croatia (Semis) and then didn't play against France in the final. Involved in 5 out of 7 of the games as a starter or half/third as a sub. As a defender those are unusual sub times i.e it shows how he was viewed as a player to come on with lots of the game to play. Made some very important blocks and tackles too.

Don't really care about the top 5 shouts although if that was your criteria, my point was more that he's accomplished a lot more at international level than you'd think.
 
Yorkeontop said:
He had all that buzz coming out of Ajax and he's failed to nail down a place at two big cubs. The only hope is that EtH can unlock something like he did back then.
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He started virtually every game he was fit at Juventus (I believe I read somewhere that he played more minutes than any other player in his last season there).

I don't understand where this myth has come from that he failed at Juventus and they wanted to get rid. He may not quite have reached the heights that they were hoping for (ie. he didn't become the best defender in the world), but he was still clearly good for them. They sold him because they were in financial difficulties and he was one of their higher earners, he only had two years left on his contract and wouldn't sign a new one because he wanted to leave, and Bayern were offering basically the same amount they originally paid for him.
 
Yorkeontop said:
He had all that buzz coming out of Ajax and he's failed to nail down a place at two big cubs. The only hope is that EtH can unlock something like he did back then.
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When will people stop peddling this narrative? He was first choice for Juve and basically started whenever he was available. He was sold because he wouldn’t renew his contract and they didn’t want him to walk out the door for free. If he flopped at Juve he wouldn’t have been sold to Bayern for 70m. He was also first choice at Bayern and was even in the Bundesliga team of the season in his first year. Him dropping out the team is a fairly recent thing which I think was down to injuries and personal choice by the manager at the time, it wasn’t down to his ability or lack of.
 
 
Yorkeontop said:
He had all that buzz coming out of Ajax and he's failed to nail down a place at two big cubs. The only hope is that EtH can unlock something like he did back then.
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Was it more of you stopped following him after he left Ajax?
 
I’m pleased with this yet somehow a little skeptical.

Remember watching him at Ajax and thinking what a player because he truly was. Didn’t really follow much of his career after that I had heard he was doing well after a difficult start at Juventus, then I didn’t really hear anything about him at Bayern.

He probably hasn’t lived up to the potential he showed at Ajax but he’s just turned 25 so still plenty of time and hopefully he can do that at United. Hell at the fees paid even if he is just good be worth it.

I really do hope he settles, stays fit and finds that thing from when he was younger because if he does ooooft.

Imagine if these 3 (Deligt, Martinez, Shaw ) could stay fit and play at their best.
 
Sarni said:
He’s quite obviously not one of the best 5 defenders in the world, whilst being a very good player.

You can’t really have a claim to be a top 5 defender (or any other position for that matter) without ever being exposed to late stages CL / international tournaments football IMO.
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he just played for the winning team in the Copa America final? Argentina didn't concede a goal when he played.
 
Fully Fledged said:
he just played for the winning team in the Copa America final? Argentina didn't concede a goal when he played.
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I just don’t consider Copa America a top, top tournament at this stage. With Brazil as poor as they are, and Uruguay/Colombia noticeably weaker than they were 5-10 years ago, it just isn’t the same as WC or Euro. It’s definitely something though.
 
moses said:
You're basically wishing for us to be rubbish. Which is a bit silly really.
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I was being slightly facetious but I ultimately don't see us going anywhere with this manager. Probably not the thread to discuss it but I think the bar should be pretty high now for a man who has received the backing Ten Hag has, especially after the way last season went. I'd be binning him off even if we have a pretty average season this time around, although that's probably wishful thinking given he got a contract extension for finishing 8th.
 
Leftback99 said:
It's an odd situation where so many here are so sure about him, while ex players and the media are not. I wonder whether the reaction here would be the same if he'd gone to another club.
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You can very easily flip that around and ask would the media have such a downer on any other club signing De Ligt for around £40m?

There's always a media desire to search for a negative with our signings that you don't get to anywhere near the same level with other clubs.
 
CM said:
I was being slightly facetious but I ultimately don't see us going anywhere with this manager. Probably not the thread to discuss it but I think the bar should be pretty high now for a man who has received the backing Ten Hag has, especially after the way last season went. I'd be binning him off even if we have a pretty average season this time around, although that's probably wishful thinking given he got a contract extension for finishing 8th.
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Yet he never lost the dressing room and the youngsters speak glowingly of him even after finishing 8th.

Carry on with your "slightly facetious posting".

Wanting the manager to fail :lol:
 
CM said:
I was being slightly facetious but I ultimately don't see us going anywhere with this manager. Probably not the thread to discuss it but I think the bar should be pretty high now for a man who has received the backing Ten Hag has, especially after the way last season went. I'd be binning him off even if we have a pretty average season this time around, although that's probably wishful thinking given he got a contract extension for finishing 8th.
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Imagine back when SAF started if we had social media we would not live to have the greatest manager who ever been at the club.

When he had to revamp everything got rid of lots of players changing the attitude and atmosphere at the club. Fan were angry press was calling for his head. Things like “Dull football” “ fergie the flop” “the worst record of any United manager of modern times''. all sounds too familiar

Guess we had a long time being patient but it’s the first manager that’s had the longest run at it. So let’s stop this crap and give the guy a chance. We been here before

Edit : didn’t want to derail the thread.
 
De Ligt is a good addition to the defense. I see him as being on par with Maguire, but with the potential to be even better if he gets his development going again.
First of all, though, I hope that the central defense gets better protection from the midfield this year and that they can stay injury-free.
 
MadDogg said:
He started virtually every game he was fit at Juventus (I believe I read somewhere that he played more minutes than any other player in his last season there).

I don't understand where this myth has come from that he failed at Juventus and they wanted to get rid. He may not quite have reached the heights that they were hoping for (ie. he didn't become the best defender in the world), but he was still clearly good for them. They sold him because they were in financial difficulties and he was one of their higher earners, he only had two years left on his contract and wouldn't sign a new one because he wanted to leave, and Bayern were offering basically the same amount they originally paid for him.
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ShinjiNinja26 said:
When will people stop peddling this narrative? He was first choice for Juve and basically started whenever he was available. He was sold because he wouldn’t renew his contract and they didn’t want him to walk out the door for free. If he flopped at Juve he wouldn’t have been sold to Bayern for 70m. He was also first choice at Bayern and was even in the Bundesliga team of the season in his first year. Him dropping out the team is a fairly recent thing which I think was down to injuries and personal choice by the manager at the time, it wasn’t down to his ability or lack of.
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I am humbled and grateful to be informed.
RDCR07 said:
Was it more of you stopped following him after he left Ajax?
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Indeed. How wrong I've been.
 
V.O. said:
I love how agricultural the strike looks (correct league for such technique of course).

He's basically hit a clearance into the top corner.
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Thats actually incredible technique. Beckham used to drive passes like that where you wedge your foot under and stop without follow through. He just did it into the top corner
 
Martinez on De Light and Mazraoui

“I’m so excited about Matthijs about Nouss [Mazraoui]. We are here to help them and they are really good players.”

“That’s why Manchester United bought them.”

“They will show that quickly because they have really good qualities and they like to play football and they are special for our system.”


Martinez added, “I think Matthijs will give us a strong personality, playing from the back, defending high. I can’t wait to play with him.”

From the same article…

Martinez especially knows Mazraoui well from their time together at Ajax. They played 65 times together, tasting defeat on just 12 occasions.

Martinez did not get the opportunity to share the pitch with De Ligt.

Martinez joined Ajax in the summer of 2019, just as De Ligt was leaving the Johan Cruyff Arena for Serie A giants Juventus.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Go on then, name your top 5
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I would have more than 5 defenders ahead of him but let’s say I have Saliba, VVD and Dias in PL, and then Marquinhos and Rudiger outside. I have learned though that discussing Martinez here is impossible after I was told I passionately hate him for saying he’s very good instead of great / best / whatever I was supposed to say.

In fact I would not discount the possibility of de Ligt himself and Yoro being better than him eventually. His on the ball ability is valuable though so he will always be in there.
 
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Sarni said:
I would have more than 5 defenders ahead of him but let’s say I have Saliba, VVD and Dias in PL, and then Marquinhos and Rudiger outside. I have learned though that discussing Martinez here is impossible after I was told I passionately hate him for saying he’s very good instead of great / best / whatever I was supposed to say.

In fact I would not discount the possibility of de Ligt and Yoro being better than him eventually. His on the ball ability is valuable though so he will always be in there.
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It was just a question, but interesting you put Saliba in there considering he's not played deep into an international tournament nor in any sort of CL matches.

Personally I think he's borderline. Has some limitations athletically and can be exposed defending wide spaces but he's also the best CB in the world on the ball and is excellent defending on the front foot as well as in his own box. I certainly wouldn't say he's "obviously" not in that category because I don't think it's obvious at all.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
It was just a question, but interesting you put Saliba in there considering he's not played deep into an international tournament nor in any sort of CL matches.

Personally I think he's borderline. Has some limitations athletically and can be exposed defending wide spaces but he's also the best CB in the world on the ball and is excellent defending on the front foot as well as in his own box. I certainly wouldn't say he's "obviously" not in that category because I don't think it's obvious at all.
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Not true. Got to CL QF with Arsenal last year and Euro SF with France (who had a very good defensive record throughout tournament), as a starter. Not a huge sample size but he’s also been part of the best defense in the league. He’s only established himself recently but seems supremely talented and strong physically as well.
 
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