Hummels is underrated by half and grossly overrated by the other half. Clear indication, he is good but has limitations which are clear. Decent at football and smart but limited as an imposing defender and commits mistakes.
Mats Hummels
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Ever since the Euro in 2012 Hummels had problems in my opinion. He usually had a good run for a few months each year but never for a full season. And it wasn't just that he was let down by the rest of the team, he individually made too many silly errors and didn't impress me as an energetic leader who organises his defense anymore. Add to it his several small injuries and the fact that he catches the flu twice each year and you'll get too much inconsistency from your top defender to find stability at the back. Of course other factors played a part as well, but he has to shoulder some blame for Dortmund's significantly worse defensive record since their 2nd title win.
I'd say the World Cup in Brazil was like a mini-season with all the pros and cons of him visible. He had a good run for the first 3 of the 7 games, then missed the first knockout game because of the flu, then had that phenomenal performance against France, a rock at the back and scored the game winning goal after a corner. Then he wasn't fully fit again and had to be subbed off at halftime in the semifinal, before he had a pretty average game in the final with at least one individual mistake that could have cost us the title. Hummels in a nutshell.
Maybe a new club is exactly what he needs, a new challenge to see him being more motivated, more focused. The 2010-2012 version of him still appears from time to time and that was a fantastic centerback. I'm pretty sure after yesterdayby now that we'll find out. After all, Lothar Matthäus overheard during the game yesterday that the deal with United over 45m Euro is done
.@Balu Lothar Matthaus, man would I love a prime era him as one of our #8's.
Has LVG any connection to him?
LvG was the manager when Bayern sold him to Dortmund I think
Nope, he went on loan to Dortmund in the winter of 2008 and it was made a permanent deal in winter 2009, a few months before van Gaal took over.
Cheers, I stand corrected. So no connection with LvG I guess
You could say that Hummels' brilliant performance and crucial goal in Dortmund's 1-3 away win against us in the second half of 2010/11 was one of the bigger nails in van Gaal's coffin. That's as far as I go if you're looking for a connection though.
What style of game were you playing in the time closely before Van Gaal?
Kick and rush or something like that. Not sure how to describe Klinsmann's style, I'd argue he didn't really have one.
Cheers! Hard to imagine Bayern playing kick and rush!
Was just curious, had LvG come in before his exit, would he have left.
Difficult to say. Lucio + Demichelis played an excellent season in 07/08 and we set a new league record for fewest goals conceded. That season Hummels left on loan in January. We had Badstuber as well from our academy and bought Breno as a highly rated young centerback. Maybe it could have been different if van Gaal took over one year earlier, but it really was difficult for any young centerback to get into the team and Hummels didn't want to wait for his turn. In fact he didn't want to return to Bayern at all after his first year on loan at Dortmund, he pushed for the move to be made permanent. Maybe van Gaal and a promise of playing time might have changed his mind, but the way Hummels talked about Dortmund in the following years, I doubt it. He really loved being there.
Ahhhh right, cheers for the answer again mate. Sounds like LvG would have made little, if any, difference to be honest. Can imagine it'd be hard for any CB to break into that kind of setup, hard to blame him for walking for guaranteed first team football with a club he was happy at.
They are/were more powerful than him phisically
These are close to my feelings.
Hummels is not a well rounded player. He is exceptional in some ways but very average in others. I think had we kept with 3-5-2 then he could have been amazing in that central role with Smalling/Rojo flanking him. However considering our current system I don't think he would justify the amount of money being talked about.
More powerful? Hummels is 2 inches taller than Terry and a bit of a unit while Hyypia was a bean pole.
£30m for him sounds like a great deal IMO. World Cup winnong CB and a key component of a side that got to a CL final 2 years ago. Still only 26/27 and fits the managers blueprint. We paid 30 for Shaw and Herrera who were more unproven.
Its also a good deal for Dortmund due to the strength of the pound vs euro.
Its also a good deal for Dortmund due to the strength of the pound vs euro.
I was about to type a very similar thing to the Fifa comments. I think to many people see an obvious need of pace on that game and bring it here.
Terry, Mertesaker and Demichellis are going fine
Does he play right or left centre half?
Left
Thanks. I had been afraid that we would have this future with Rojo is an automatic starter for us by virtue of being left footed, despite being borderline terrible as far as I'm concerned.
Hummels and Smalling sounds like a partnership that could work.
I think it could be an excellent partnership. Hummels brings in all the leadership qualities we need in a defender aswell.
Jones and Rojo as back ups for the left and right gives really good balance in defence
That's because despite making a lot of positional errors and being all over the pitch, he actually made some tackles and interceptions. Yeah, the rating system on whoscored.com is definitely not flawless, especially for defenders because you can't make a statistic on positional errors. But still, the example of Luiz vs Germany is one of few incidents where whoscored is that much off in their ratings.
I still think their ratings over a whole season can be a decent indicator.
Yep. Its not just about the pace issue. Yes, Terry and Vidic weren't exactly fast, but they were/are both naturally incredible defenders, with fantastic positional sense, and proper defenders intuition, Hummels (for my money) just doesn't have that. He's not even in the same league as players like prime Vidic, Rio, Terry etc etc He's good for at least one mistake a game and I honestly think people will end up being very underwhelmed if we sign him.
What i must add though to my original post, I think hummels has what it takes rather than being limited. It's probably in the head or something like that. Pace is something he won't have, but rest he can deliver better. Consistency is one thing, he is still a very good footballer who can rise and has done it on big days. Its a weird case and thus opinions are divided. He won't be prime rio though, no chance.
It was a great side attacking wise. Defensively not so much. Lahm yes is one of the best fullbacks of all time. Boateng is alright and Howedes, a centre back was a make shift left back the entire World Cup. Mustafi was the other full back used. And if Germany had no problem using Mertesacker and Hummels then I don't we will have any problem since Smalling, Jones and Rojo are all quicker than both Hummels and Mertesacker. He was the ever present leader of that defensive line during the WC. He is a terrific passer of the ball from deep and Van Gaal loves that - starting attacks from defense. Pace is the only thing he lacks.
Boateng has been brilliant for Bayern since they signed him from City. Certainly better then Hummels has been over the same period.
Boateng is fantastic, not alright. He's better than Hummels for quite some time now. Höwedes was a makeshift leftback and certainly a bit of a problem, but Hummels, Boateng, Lahm and Neuer with Schweinsteiger as the DM certainly is a great defense. Hummels wasn't really ever-present either. He missed the first knockout game, struggled heavily with fitness in the semifinal (subbed off at halftime) and final (Boateng, Neuer and Schweinsteiger easily outperformed him).
Dortmund has offered him a new contract, he must decide if he wants to leave or not.
Good thing is that this won't drag long and we should find out soon if he will leave or not.
From what I've seen of late, Dragovic is my first choice. He already looks a very good centre half, but at the same time, he is of a profile where he can have a bit of time to adapt. Smalling and Jones are doing well now, and Dragovic can come in and compete, wheras Hummels will need to play from the very off. I have a feeling that he would struggle in the PL, at least initially - which will in turn create an added pressure as the press would be on to him, citing his huge price etc - and there will also be a pressure of LVG not to drop him, again, due to his profile, which could hurt the team.
Dragovic can become world class, and will have room to become become world class basically. Our defence isn't that bad now, so I would prefer a smoother transition back there.
Dragovic can become world class, and will have room to become become world class basically. Our defence isn't that bad now, so I would prefer a smoother transition back there.
We already have at least 3 CBs in that mould, that are good but not quite world class, we need someone with experience and with leadership. Hummels is perfect for that.
By some reason we can't buy Hummels or someone similar, I prefer us to buy a very young CB(Laporte, Marquinhos) than a player that is basically exactly what we already have.
I just realized that Hummels is one year younger than Evans and only one older than Smalling and Rojo.
That sounds to me like an offer is on the table. Dortmund would prefer to keep him and have made a counter offer but are open to him leaving if that is the decision he wants to make.
Although I see his current deal goes to 2017 and was signed in 2012 so it could just be a scheduled offer to bring him in line with his current status.
We already have at least 3 CBs in that mould, that are good but not quite world class, we need someone with experience and with leadership. Hummels is perfect for that.
By some reason we can't buy Hummels or someone similar, I prefer us to buy a very young CB(Laporte, Marquinhos) than a player that is basically exactly what we already have.
I just realized that Hummels is one year younger than Evans and only one older than Smalling and Rojo.
Exactly, if we are getting another CB then it should be someone top class.
I completely agree that there's no point in bringing in another CB at the level of Jones, Rojo or Smalling. We need someone closer to the level of the likes of Vidic/Ferdinand in their prime. Hummels would be perfect for us.
The "it'll all become clear in the next weeks" comment makes it sound like he's going to sign a new contract. Fair play to him if he does.
So it's Mats and not Matt, ok.
On paper he's everything we need; an experienced leader who can organise the back 4, slot straight in next to Smalling and has already played at a level that means he isn't a work in progress. However I still have a niggling feeling that he wouldn't be a success here. I just have feel that he will not replicate his form as one of the best defenders in the world and will fade out, a little like Kompany.
Moving clubs can sometimes have the effect of reinventing a career though; there is a chance that he has just gotten too comfortable. If that's the case he'd be a great signing.
Moving clubs can sometimes have the effect of reinventing a career though; there is a chance that he has just gotten too comfortable. If that's the case he'd be a great signing.
Ever since the Euro in 2012 Hummels had problems in my opinion. He usually had a good run for a few months each year but never for a full season. And it wasn't just that he was let down by the rest of the team, he individually made too many silly errors and didn't impress me as an energetic leader who organises his defense anymore. Add to it his several small injuries and the fact that he catches the flu twice each year and you'll get too much inconsistency from your top defender to find stability at the back. Of course other factors played a part as well, but he has to shoulder some blame for Dortmund's significantly worse defensive record since their 2nd title win.
I'd say the World Cup in Brazil was like a mini-season with all the pros and cons of him visible. He had a good run for the first 3 of the 7 games, then missed the first knockout game because of the flu, then had that phenomenal performance against France, a rock at the back and scored the game winning goal after a corner. Then he wasn't fully fit again and had to be subbed off at halftime in the semifinal, before he had a pretty average game in the final with at least one individual mistake that could have cost us the title. Hummels in a nutshell.
Maybe a new club is exactly what he needs, a new challenge to see him being more motivated, more focused. The 2010-2012 version of him still appears from time to time and that was a fantastic centerback. I'm pretty sure after yesterdayby now that we'll find out. After all, Lothar Matthäus overheard during the game yesterday that the deal with United over 45m Euro is done
Very well put summery. He can be absolute class when fully fit and at his bets but he barely ever reached that stage for more than a couple of games each season.
Of course I would love it if he came here and we got the 2010-12 Hummels back but on the other hand I'm really afraid that he will come her and turn into our new Hargreaves or that he commits a few game costing mistakes early on and his confidence gets totally shot and all I have to read all day on the Caf is how shit he is and how we ever could waste so much money on this overrated shitty player.
Like with the Sterling thing?
Atm he is the best defender in the world imo and also had a better WC than Hummels, especially in the final he was absolutely superb which can't really be said about Hummels.