He was out on his feet but kept going. I was still impressed with him tonight bar one or two moments
Mats Hummels
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Ah, reet.
First of all, he was rock solid against Ghana and the problem was actually Höwedes being over played several times.
Concerning the three pace duels with Messi: Look where the duels took place and how the situtaions occured. Two of them happened directly on left flank line in a counter situation. If a CB is forced into a pace duel with a offensive player there it is a clear sign that mistakes happened prior to that, in these both cases the LB left his side wide open. The third situation happened directly after a horribly misplaced pass from the CM, giving Messi a head start in the pace duel. You don´t beat Messi in such a situation, his acceleration is just too quick. However, in all situations he was forced into pace duels because he was the last standing defender. It was his only choice even if his pace was negatively impacted by his issues with his knee.
He did make one big mistake, though, when he misjudged his timing for a header opening a big chance for Argentina, which could have cost us. On the other hand he made at least half a dozen well timed crucial interceptions and tacklings, effectively breaking down several counter plays by the opposition.
Comparing Vlaar´s performance against Messi is completely ignoring defensive setups. It is a huge difference if you play a high defense line with the commitment to attack and make the game or if you sit extremely deep with two four man lines and simply hope for a counter. This made the Netherlands-Argentina game such a dull affair, because no team commited to actually attack.
Hummels has shown that he can excell in high places defenses, but it of course helps if you have an actual FB as partner and not a CB posing as one.
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Hummels is a good defender, but he tends to be overrated. For instance, I wouldn't say he was "rock solid" against Ghana given that he was partly responsible for Gyan's goal. He was definitely one of the tournament's best defenders, but why is it automatically a fact that he was the best defender? Garay was equally as impressive in this tournament, IMO.
However, Hummels was clearly not fit today and that probably contributed to some of the ground duels he lost out on. He looked very weak. Boateng's athleticism helped him a lot. In the unlikely event that he joins us, he would be regarded as our best centre-back and one of the Premier League's best defenders. He has been exposed in the big games, but the system he would be part of with us would leave him less exposed. He would be a quality signing.
However, Hummels was clearly not fit today and that probably contributed to some of the ground duels he lost out on. He looked very weak. Boateng's athleticism helped him a lot. In the unlikely event that he joins us, he would be regarded as our best centre-back and one of the Premier League's best defenders. He has been exposed in the big games, but the system he would be part of with us would leave him less exposed. He would be a quality signing.
Complemented each other well as the game went on.
He's a player with several excellent qualities. But he looked like a Volkswagen station wagon up against a race car at times in the final. Not just slow - but dangerously slow.
His best asset is bringing ball out of defence, and reading of the game. If United play 3 at the back, a ball playing centre back is vital.
He did seem to be void of any genuine pace on a couple of occasions today.
He did seem to be void of any genuine pace on a couple of occasions today.
So surprised by the comments in here as he was poor yesterday, which is a shame given he's had a great tournament. Was bailed out by Boateng and Bastian on more than one occasion and positionally all at sea throughout the game (could have cost them the game in ET but for pony tail being shit). Was good with the ball at his feet though, I'll give him that. But I'd say that was larely down to Argentina not pressing the ball in the German half all game.
Yes mate.. Some players are slow some are fast. Robben is fast for instance but Thierry Henry who is also fast.. Is quite obviously faster than Robben. Now Hummels who is slow, is distinctively slower than any of our current crop of defenders including Vidic. So i couldn't careless if he got out paced by Usain Bolt...
Speed isn't everything if he positions himself well.
John Terry is viewed as one of the best defenders to have played in the league, and he was never blessed with pace. Nor was Nemanja Vidic.
if Hummels is in anyway shape or form available, we have to go for him. He, and Benatia are the two best and attainable defenders we could sign.
John Terry is viewed as one of the best defenders to have played in the league, and he was never blessed with pace. Nor was Nemanja Vidic.
if Hummels is in anyway shape or form available, we have to go for him. He, and Benatia are the two best and attainable defenders we could sign.
He was clearly not fully fit yesterday. Still glad he played instead of Mertesacker, who actually is really slow in comparison to Hummels but does fine in the Premier League. But yeah like I said before, some of you prefer athletes over football players, good luck with that 
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.He was clearly not fully fit yesterday. Still glad he played instead of Mertesacker, who actually is really slow in comparison to Hummels but does fine in the Premier League. But yeah like I said before, some of you prefer athletes over football players, good luck with that
He's quite clearly a brilliant defender but he just wasn't brilliant yesterday. Far from it in my opinion.
Would love him at United. Can't see him leaving Dortmund though.
Yeah, he wasn't good yesterday, made a few mistakes. But I still think his leadership and organisational skills were helpful. He bailed out his teammates countless times during the tournament, so I happily forgive him that he forced his teammates to bail him out once or twice this time. Still a hero in my book.
Looked unfit yesterday. Pace is always his weakness but I think it had more to do with the system, Germany defender line is way too high. Anyone thinks he isn't good at 1v1 I can say you bloody wrong, 1v1 is his strength and one bad game doesn't change that, remember he completely neutralized Ronaldo? Still want
I don't know if you are joking but if you are not, then I would consider you a casual football follower at the most. One bad game and suddenly you want Vermaelen instead? A man that will probably give us a total of 7 games in the season? Hummels isn't the fastest but CB's can be great without being quick. Look at Lionheart Terry or Vidic. Plus, if you put most CBs in a direct race against Messi or Lavezzi, they will probably struggle to catch up...
I actually thought he had some good scenes yesterday but his missed header cloud really have cost and all his great performances at the WC would probably have been forgotten for that one mistake. Still him and Boateng did an excellent job last night for the majority of the game.
The ultimate muppet defender, Id love him to sign, he reminds me of a younger Vidic but with Ferdinands distribution.
While pace isn't everything it does usually mean you either play a deep defensive line or a very disciplined holding midfielder to cover the centre back.
I'd be worried about Hummel's in the future, he has tendonitis in one knee.
I agree, I don't know why Germany played such a high line when they have to play either Hummels or Mertersacker... did not make sense but they won the WC so who cares! Didn't know about the knee thing though... that is worrying
You never know around these parts unless there's white text. There was one guy that was saying Schwein is shit and is awful in big games, and he was being seriousFitting tag line.
Yes, I was obviously being sarcastic.
Let's not forget, he's not been fully either
He's good. But after this world cup I have to say, not suited to Man United. Eventhough he's probably been the best defender in this WC. But IMO too small and especially too slow for the Premier League. Manchester United should be going for Vertonghen.
God I hope not, can't defend to save his life that lad.
Garay was the best defender at the WC I think. You can see why SAF was scouting him so heavily now.
He's 6ft 4, how tall do you want him to be? 7ft?Vidic wasn't exactly the quickest either but he turned out half decent for us.
That's bizarre. He's miles better than Vertonghen, whose only superior attribute is his pace. And what did you mean small? He's 6'4 and one of the most powerful centre halves around.
Boateng was superb too. Makes City look a bit silly, considering they let him go and are considering spending £32m or so on Mangala.
Levi is that you?
We are very grateful to them, however. He was phenomenal last night but he still has the occasional brain-fart. No denying last night was one of the best performances I've seen from him though.
He is too small??? Now I have heard it all
The guy is a tower, which gives him a dominance in aerial and ground duels that is very rarely found. His stature does cost him mobility and pace, though.
Yesterday was not a good performance by him, at least by his standarts. He made one big blunder, which could have cost us dearly and one smaller one, when he fell for a pretty obvious feint of Messi.
What is rubbish is to judge him on the sprint duels with Messi on the flank, though. Not only is Messi one of the best dribbler the world has ever seen, but also Hummels is actually not suppossed to win these duels in the first place. Put a Vidic in his prime in these situations and he gets skinned by a offensive player of the calibre of Messi. All it shows is that the player type of Hummels would not make a good FB, which is undoubtly true. The real flaw in these scenes are not Hummels losing the duel, it is that Hummels has to take over the LB role for these scenes in the first place because the actual LB is nowhere to be found.
If you defend that high, which results into spaces for counters of the opposition you need the necessary movement to cover the flanks, in short you need FBs with proper pace and stamina and wingers who track back. You can´t take out top class offensive players like Messi, Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Reus, Di Maria, etc. individually in this system. They live for situations, where they have multiple options and space to operate. You try to take them out collectively by doubling or if necessary trippling them.
In all the sprint duels Hummels was forced into he was completely left alone by his partner on the flank, because Argentina simply transitioned better. I still don´t understand the high placement of the FBs, though, because it was not needed for the game plan. Its easy to pin the blame on Hummels, because it is the most obvious target here, but football is not that simple.
Saying that Hummels is not suited for the way United defends does not make much sense in my eyes, because your defense line is placed pretty conservatively and Hummels has already proven to play on a very high level for over half a decade in one of the most offensive defenses in Europe. The difference between Dortmund and the National team is that the former is more suited for that style of defense and simply executes it better. Klopp would never have the idea of playing an immobile and slower player like Höwedes (or Hummels for that matter) as FB, because he needs pace, mobility and stamina there. He also demands way more defensive contribution from his offensive players to help in the back. Last but not least, Dortmund simply transitions faster and more efficiently because it is build around this.
What Löw got right was to find the ideal partner in the central defense for a strategic and technical CB like Hummels. It is no secret that an atletic and fast paced defender is the best option as partner for him. Dortmund defends with this combination for ages and Boateng did a fantastic job complementing Hummels´ strengths with his own. Baring injuries I think we are set for at least the next two tournaments in that regard.
The guy is a tower, which gives him a dominance in aerial and ground duels that is very rarely found. His stature does cost him mobility and pace, though.
Yesterday was not a good performance by him, at least by his standarts. He made one big blunder, which could have cost us dearly and one smaller one, when he fell for a pretty obvious feint of Messi.
What is rubbish is to judge him on the sprint duels with Messi on the flank, though. Not only is Messi one of the best dribbler the world has ever seen, but also Hummels is actually not suppossed to win these duels in the first place. Put a Vidic in his prime in these situations and he gets skinned by a offensive player of the calibre of Messi. All it shows is that the player type of Hummels would not make a good FB, which is undoubtly true. The real flaw in these scenes are not Hummels losing the duel, it is that Hummels has to take over the LB role for these scenes in the first place because the actual LB is nowhere to be found.
If you defend that high, which results into spaces for counters of the opposition you need the necessary movement to cover the flanks, in short you need FBs with proper pace and stamina and wingers who track back. You can´t take out top class offensive players like Messi, Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Reus, Di Maria, etc. individually in this system. They live for situations, where they have multiple options and space to operate. You try to take them out collectively by doubling or if necessary trippling them.
In all the sprint duels Hummels was forced into he was completely left alone by his partner on the flank, because Argentina simply transitioned better. I still don´t understand the high placement of the FBs, though, because it was not needed for the game plan. Its easy to pin the blame on Hummels, because it is the most obvious target here, but football is not that simple.
Saying that Hummels is not suited for the way United defends does not make much sense in my eyes, because your defense line is placed pretty conservatively and Hummels has already proven to play on a very high level for over half a decade in one of the most offensive defenses in Europe. The difference between Dortmund and the National team is that the former is more suited for that style of defense and simply executes it better. Klopp would never have the idea of playing an immobile and slower player like Höwedes (or Hummels for that matter) as FB, because he needs pace, mobility and stamina there. He also demands way more defensive contribution from his offensive players to help in the back. Last but not least, Dortmund simply transitions faster and more efficiently because it is build around this.
What Löw got right was to find the ideal partner in the central defense for a strategic and technical CB like Hummels. It is no secret that an atletic and fast paced defender is the best option as partner for him. Dortmund defends with this combination for ages and Boateng did a fantastic job complementing Hummels´ strengths with his own. Baring injuries I think we are set for at least the next two tournaments in that regard.
What on earth did I just read from Daslogisch.
Hummels is taller than fecking Ferdinand.
Hummels is taller than fecking Ferdinand.
He is too small??? Now I have heard it all
The guy is a tower, which gives him a dominance in aerial and ground duels that is very rarely found. His stature does cost him mobility and pace, though.
Yesterday was not a good performance by him, at least by his standarts. He made one big blunder, which could have cost us dearly and one smaller one, when he fell for a pretty obvious feint of Messi.
What is rubbish is to judge him on the sprint duels with Messi on the flank, though. Not only is Messi one of the best dribbler the world has ever seen, but also Hummels is actually not suppossed to win these duels in the first place. Put a Vidic in his prime in these situations and he gets skinned by a offensive player of the calibre of Messi. All it shows is that the player type of Hummels would not make a good FB, which is undoubtly true. The real flaw in these scenes are not Hummels losing the duel, it is that Hummels has to take over the LB role for these scenes in the first place because the actual LB is nowhere to be found.
If you defend that high, which results into spaces for counters of the opposition you need the necessary movement to cover the flanks, in short you need FBs with proper pace and stamina and wingers who track back. You can´t take out top class offensive players like Messi, Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Reus, Di Maria, etc. individually in this system. They live for situations, where they have multiple options and space to operate. You try to take them out collectively by doubling or if necessary trippling them.
In all the sprint duels Hummels was forced into he was completely left alone by his partner on the flank, because Argentina simply transitioned better. I still don´t understand the high placement of the FBs, though, because it was not needed for the game plan. Its easy to pin the blame on Hummels, because it is the most obvious target here, but football is not that simple.
Saying that Hummels is not suited for the way United defends does not make much sense in my eyes, because your defense line is placed pretty conservatively and Hummels has already proven to play on a very high level for over half a decade in one of the most offensive defenses in Europe. The difference between Dortmund and the National team is that the former is more suited for that style of defense and simply executes it better. Klopp would never have the idea of playing an immobile and slower player like Höwedes (or Hummels for that matter) as FB, because he needs pace, mobility and stamina there. He also demands way more defensive contribution from his offensive players to help in the back. Last but not least, Dortmund simply transitions faster and more efficiently because it is build around this.
What Löw got right was to find the ideal partner in the central defense for a strategic and technical CB like Hummels. It is no secret that an atletic and fast paced defender is the best option as partner for him. Dortmund defends with this combination for ages and Boateng did a fantastic job complementing Hummels´ strengths with his own. Baring injuries I think we are set for at least the next two tournaments in that regard.
Vidic in one on ones against fast strikers, we all know how that ended when Torres was still one of the fastest strikers out there.
It is certainly true that pace is probably Hummels one big weakness (something that was made worse yesterday by his lack of fitness). It is certainty something that should be taken into account. However...
You'd think he's get caught more often than that, wouldn't you? I mean the defensive line his teams play should result in him being regularly exposed, especially if his fullbacks go awol like they did yesterday. In fact you'd think that having a CB with that weakness would force you to play a far deeper defensive line generally, no? Yet Hummels has actually flourished in these systems, despite his lack of pace. Think that says a lot about his intelligence and ability, doesn't it?
So why should his relative lack of pace really put us off when we're likely to play with a far more conservative defensive line than he's used to? He's already shown he can compensate for that weakness in a set up that should leave him far more exposed, so why wouldn't he flourish in a set up that will offer him more protection?
You'd think he's get caught more often than that, wouldn't you? I mean the defensive line his teams play should result in him being regularly exposed, especially if his fullbacks go awol like they did yesterday. In fact you'd think that having a CB with that weakness would force you to play a far deeper defensive line generally, no? Yet Hummels has actually flourished in these systems, despite his lack of pace. Think that says a lot about his intelligence and ability, doesn't it?
So why should his relative lack of pace really put us off when we're likely to play with a far more conservative defensive line than he's used to? He's already shown he can compensate for that weakness in a set up that should leave him far more exposed, so why wouldn't he flourish in a set up that will offer him more protection?
Ok, I was clearly wrong about his height. He really looks quite small to me. It's surprising to me he's actually that tall. Looks can deceive I guess.
Don't laugh so hard, Balu. Some tall people just look short.
He's the best CB we can buy. World class.
A duo of Hummels and Vertonghen at the back would be a dream.
A duo of Hummels and Vertonghen at the back would be a dream.
Not sure we can buy him
The club might just not sell to anyone and if they did sell clubs equally as glamorous if not more so than ourselves would want him (eg barca) and if it came to a pure bidding war god knows what psg would pay but he is better than Luiz so potentially a lot more than we would
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