Too good to refuse in that case would mean Hummels would break Luiz' (defender-)transfer record comfortably. And yeah, thats very unlikely. ^^
Mats Hummels
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Too good to refuse in that case would mean Hummels would break Luiz' (defender-)transfer record comfortably. And yeah, thats very unlikely. ^^
Kagawa + 15/20 million and they would have to think about it atleast.
Of course it would probably take a world record fee for a defender for us to persuade Borrussia to sell Hummels. But we have paid world record fees in the past for Stam and Ferdinand so its not impossible.
No way, why would he be so cheap if even Benatia is rated 40m€ +? Not even David Luiz is better than Hummels, and Hummels is even younger. Plus Dortmund has no reason to sell him at all. Imo there is a chance of 0,01% for United to sign him this summer. And this small chance just because this is football and for the case that United would break the bank.
And Watzke said that they have no interest in Kagawa anyways, because there is no place for him atm. And they made no good experience with getting back former players, since Sahin never played as good as he was before.
What if we add Kagawa? Every players has a price. Albeit, Dortmund seems adament not to loose anymore of their star players
. We might aswell settle for Vermalen or another centerback as I do not see a move being possible this windowIgnore the Kagawa part, you already answered that in the post above.
Even though it's been pointed out countless times on here, people still keep mentioning a swap deal involving Kagawa. Dortmund don't need Kagawa. Mkhitaryan plays in that no.10 role for them, and their CEO even recently said that they don't need anymore no.10s because Reus can play there too if needed.
What if we add Kagawa? Every players has a price. Albeit, Dortmund seems adament not to loose anymore of their star players
How much is Kagawa rated after 2 bad seasons with not much gametime? 10-15m € maybe? So he wouldn't make much difference. And as i said above, Watzke said a few weeks ago that they are not interested in Kagawa at all since there is no place for him in the squad atm (Reus/Mkhitaryan playing in the middle and left side). And they made a bad experience with getting back Sahin since he never played as good as he did before.
No body has paid 40 million euros + for Benatia right now. He might be rated at whatever. Not every transfer is valued at same anyway.
They were courting Kagawa publicly at the end of last season. According to reports Kagawa said no, as he didn't want to seem as a faliure at United. We already know Klopp rates him highly, he is very marketable young and proven for them plus they haven't been fully pleased with Mkhtirayan so far. Certainly could use another top AM option with Reus injured and probably leaving next summer.
United can also give way higher wages to Hummels and probably add more money too to take the transfer value to 40 million pounds. (with Kagawa at 20 million considering we bought him for 16 with just 1 year left on his contract.)
If Luiz is worth £50 million, what is Hummels worth? There's no chance of this happening this summer I suspect, which is why I imagine we're looking at Vermaelen.
Can we accurately use Luiz from Chelsea to PSG as an indicator? I mean, they're two sugar daddy clubs for whom money really isn't an object. £40 million for Hummels would be money well spent.
If United sign Hummels it'll be because we offered crazy amounts of money and not a swap deal with Kagawa.
Kagawa is not worth 20m now given his form for the past 2 seasons.
2 questions.
1. Why would Dortmund sell 1 of their last 2 world class players (Reus) for no reason? He has no clause and a long contract remaining. He's their future captain and the face from BVB. And they don't need money, they are fine.
2. If he's for sale and United offers £40: Do you think other teams like Barca, Real, PSG, Chelsea, City, etc. wouldn't try to get him and offer more?
I don't rate Kagawa as highly as many do here, but if Shaqiri, Markovic, Lallana, De Bruyne, Willian and the likes are going for a similar price or more amongst others not sure why Kagawa won't be worth that much ? Plus he brings marketing potential too.
Kagawa came for 15m€. I know he was just on 1 year contract but now he's not even half the player he was before plus he is 2 years older now.
Why would he cost 20m€ (i hope you didn't even mean pounds...) now? That would make no sense at all. Hell, even Japan benched him!
As far as i recall Kagawa came for 16 million pounds including add ons. Anyway Transfers don't work like that though. Kroos is signing for Real apparently for 25 million Euros due to being in last year of his contract.
If he doesn't adapt fully for arguments sake and is riding the bench and then gets dropped for Germany and Madrid sell him 2 years down the line he will hardly go for less or let alone half of that.
Anyway, Kagawa while hasn't been great for us has hardly been really bad either to say he is half the player etc.. different systems and leagues.
1. Because they are currently a selling club. I'm not certain they feel fully secure financially yet. The Bundesliga is strange in that it is dominated by Bayern with a pool of 4-5 teams that "challenge" for the title each year on a semi-revolving basis. BVB would need to invest a lot of money in order to solidify thier status as the country's #2 club. They also seeem quite adept at unearthing emerging talent, I doubt they'd be worried about finding yet another player with loads of potential and making them into someone of supreme quality.
2. Sure, why wouldn't they? I'd assume any deal for Hummels would involve a bidding war but, oddly enough, United has the lack of CL football on their side when negotiating a deal with other teams...we won't be hurting any European rivals this season no matter who we sign.
Barca won't spend so much on a CB given what they are spending in other areas.
Real don't need one and don't spend galactico money on CB's either.
PSG bought Luiz already.
Chelsea maybe, but Hummels really isn't a Mourinho type defender but dunno possible.
City are constraint by FFP, guess they could stretch a bit though.
Real don't need one and don't spend galactico money on CB's either.
PSG bought Luiz already.
Chelsea maybe, but Hummels really isn't a Mourinho type defender but dunno possible.
City are constraint by FFP, guess they could stretch a bit though.
Would much rather Garay
Yeah, very strange all the big clubs needing a CB missed that boat completely. Zenit rejigged their payments to show less price but he wasn't still expensive compared to other prices being touted.
So if they are a selling club: When did they sell a (top) player when they were able to refuse? Götze has had a clause, Kagawa's contract was running out and it was his dream to play for United and Lewandowski is going for free because they decided to keep him 1 more year instead of selling him for round about 25m€.
As of now, they are the #2 in Germany without any competition. And they just made an great sponsoring deal with Evonik and will probably make another one this year. They are healthy, all they want is to compete for titles. And for that they need to keep players like Hummels and Reus. They know that.
Good one.
PSG laughed at FFP's face already.
Even Bayern would make him their record-transfer in history if they could, im sure about that, but they can't.
According to german media he was a done deal for Bayern already. It seems that Zenit just overpay him.
I fecking forgot Zenit bought him!
That wasn't what I meant.
Clauses mean little, really. Dortmund sold Götze because he wanted to move to Bayern. I was a bit surprised that they held on to Lewa but in reality they had to lose him for free or really risk being labelled as a selling club, with the added shame of selling both to Bayern. As it stands, they still display a real knack for selling, or at least losing, their best players. Maybe it's down to wages? That would bring it back to their financial status. I've not been to a bundesliga game in nearly 20 years, are ticket prices as cheap as they say these days? I do find it odd that with their stadium they aren't pushing Bayern harder but if they aren't maximizing matchday revernue that might explain a few things.
Sure they are #2 now but over the last few seasons the Bundesliga has been a real shaker with a lot of different teams pushing for that #2 spot. Don't get me wrong, I like Dortmund but they stumbled for a few years after winning the CL and because of that are stuck in the second tier of European teams, that does mean they'll have to deal with bigger clubs poaching their best players. You can surely appreciate how their sales and losses of players of the last few seasons would give bigger clubs hope of completing deals.
We are doing exactly that right now, investing around 50 Mil. € into the squad and partnering with companies (first Evonik, next is probably Puma) to ensure the 2nd spot we currently have. We have finished top 2 in the last four seasons with a pretty big difference to the other clubs. This has not happened in the Bundesliga since the 90ies, when it was also us who rivaled Bayern. We have quite comfortably the 2nd best squad and are also revenue wise pretty much unrivaled after Bayern. The only club who can invest in a similar manner is Wolfsburg thanks to Volkswagen.
The Hummels situation is not comparable to any other players that left Dortmund in the recent years. He does not have a release clause like Sahin or Götze, he has three years left on contract in difference to Kagawa (one year left) or even Lewandowski, when we willingly gave up any transfer fee and ran down his contract.
Hummels won´t be sold and quite frankly I don´t know if there is a sum right now that could make the officials reconsider. He is that important. Not only on the pitch, where he is the undisputed defense leader and lead player, but also besides it. He is the primary speaker for the team with the press, an absolute crowd favourite and generally the player, who identifies himself the most with Klopp´s football. He is basically Klopp´s right hand man.
It is no secret, that Hummels enjoys this treatment by Dortmund and his standing inside the team. It is probably the main reason why he is so loyal to us. He knows that he is viewed as the face of the era Klopp (at least in Germany, internationally Reus is probably the slightly more profilic player) and could become a club legend here. As long as Dortmund has shots at titles I can see him staying around his whole career despite not earning the maximum in terms of wages. We will go to our limit regarding this, though, for his next (and biggest) contract.
And how exactly do you prevent someone from moving when his contract has a release clause?
You think the fact that Dortmund are losing a lot of their star players means that they are more inclined to sell the ones that they can actually keep?
Dortmund held on to Lewandowski, because they didn't need the €25m from Bayern. After their flirt with bancruptcy Dortmund and especially Watzke would be the last club to risk their future in order to keep up appearances.
The fact that Bayern have a new stadium, have been the biggest and best run German club for the past couple of decades makes it a bit harder to catch up over night. German football does not permit sugar daddies, clubs here have to earn most of their money and that thus growth takes time and patience.
Over the last few seasons Dortmund have had a level of continuous success that (other than Bayern of course) no other team reached in the past 15 years. They are way ahead of the third team in terms of turnover, they made a record profit last season and this season they increased their kit-sponsorship deal by ~50% and they are about to make €110-140m on top of that from selling new shares, while also net spending ~€45m (if they close the Ginter deal) without touching that money.
For what it's worth Hummels himself even stated his desire to stay.
So really you don't have to be a true expert on German football to realize that a Hummels transfer would be a (very) huge suprise to everyone.
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Thanks for the informative reply. Still, do you think that realistically Dortmund's best players can resist the pull of the larger European clubs? Not just United but Barca and Madrid, especially? I think this coming season will be an extremely important one for BVB, if they can challenge for the Bundesliga right 'til the end, or even win it, things will look good for their future. If they are left in Bayern's wake again you have to consider that some of their best players might get a little frustrated and consider their options.
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Yeah, they are losing players, because they are not huge enough as a club. They can't pay top wages. Not yet. But if they have the option to say no, they WILL say no, i can assure you. Before they lose Reus next summer due to his release clause, they will try everything they can to extend his contract. But the chances are very little, because Reus is one of the best players in the world and every team will offer him crazy money.
btw. Hummels doesn't even want to leave. He said that a thousand times, that's why he has extended his contract without a release-clause. He said for example "for me personally it is more worth to win a title with a club like BVB, than with a club like Bayern, Barca, United etc. where it is nothing special and where you are just 1 star of many". As i said, the chances for United to sign him in this summer are less than 1%. The player doesn't want to leave, and even if so, BVB wouldn't sell. And no, im not BVB fan, im Bayern fan. But i just know that it is almost impossible to get Hummels in this summer.
Claauses mean little, look at Liverpool with Suarez last year. Reports this summer indicate that Arsenal did meet the clause in his contract but the club stood firm. You know as well as I do that Bayern would use its considerable muscle in all areas of German society to bully a club into selling their best talent if necessary.
Indeed, BVB they should be way ahead of most Bundesliga teams in turnover, that's what I'm getting at. They have massive stadium and as such should have excellent revenue from that alone, much more than they need to compete with most other comers...off the top of my head I can only think that Bayern and Hertha are in the same league in terms of available seating at their home ground.
And yes, Lewa was of more value to Dortmund than the paltry fee Bayern offered them everyone knew that but it also allowed them to hold two fingers up to Bayern, something we all enjoyed. I know very well how German football works, it seems club owners over there don't, though because Bayern has been running away with things for some time. Even Dortmund have only been back at their natural level for a short time, I hope it continues because it something the team and its support deserves. But at the same time, the club's past activity with regard to player sales will give other clubs hope that they can poach their talent.
If dortmand won't sell hummles I'd try a bid for subotic as I think he would be great for the pl
Players do say they want to stay all the time, though. It happens in all sports..yet they still move. Everyone does have a price.
and I was going to sing "Colonia, Colonia, Fantastica, Colonia!" for you.
I would love that.
(but you missed one Colonia!!!)
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I would love that.
(but you missed one Colonia!!!)
Bugger! The last time I saw them play live was in '96 and I was probably very drunk. Anyway, I love your town. It's one of my favourite destinations.
That's one example from a different country. Did Suarez even sue? If clauses mean nothing why are players still using them? And there was considerable pressure in Lewandowski's case, but that didn't help him.
And they are way ahead: in this year's fml the gap towards Schalke was >€50m, I assume it will be even bigger in the next one.
German clubs have no real owners, they are controlled by their members. Bottom line of the whole Lewandowski thing is that they turned down €25m for a player who pushed very hard for his move and only had 1 year left on his contract because they could afford it and this year they are probably even a bit richer. So ask yourself how much money might take persuade them to sell their equally important player with 3 years left on a contract with no clause who does not even want to leave and might very well be their next captain.
Trust me, he said that so many times, in an honest way, that even you would believe it. He even made fun about this questions in some commercials with Opel.
Klopp: "So Mats, i heard you want to change (the club)."
Hummels: "Wtf, who said that? I don't want to change!!!"
Klopp: "Fine, i just thought you want to drive the car (change the driver position with me)!
"
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Of course this club is my true love, but i didn't thought that would be interesting for anyone in an english United forum.
So you should come and watch them again. Next season we will be world beaters.
Everything in a contract can be circumvented, really. From my perspective, players typically use clauses to ensure they can move clubs.
Like, I said, it's good for Dortmund that they are getting back to where they belong. Schalke will never be as big as BVB, they're a hole in the wall kind of club, from what I know...decent but no real ambition these days.
Yeah, I meant more like the money men who handle the day to day operations, bit of a hangover from following English football for so long. As to your question, I can easily turn it around and ask why wouldn't Dortmund turn down an opportunity to double their revenue gap over their nearest competitors? As I've mentioned, they've proved themselves highly adept at unearthing and improving emerging talent. Dortmund under Klopp appear to have almost perfected this, in fact it could be the reason why they didn't seem to be overly fussed about losing some of their best players in the last few seasons.
Of course this club is my true love, but i didn't thought that would be interesting for anyone in an english United forum.
So you should come and watch them again. Next season we will be world beaters.
A-ha! Well, I'm Canadian with a lot of family in Germany so..um..surprise! If I'm lucky the next time I'm there it will be football season, nothing beats seeing a Bundesliga match from the stands.
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