Mats Hummels

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Brightonian said:
Kompany got schtick on here this season for a few high-profile mistakes. Hummels makes one of those in every single important game, but gets away with it because people recognise that he's such an offensive, ball-playing sort of CB.

Based on last season's form I'd rate Kompany, Koscielny, Cahill and Distin higher than him. All four of those were generally rock solid last season. I know a lot of people are enamoured of Hummels because he brings the ball forward - which owes a great deal to Dortmund's system, in which he is supposed to do so - but when it comes down to it he needs to be able to actually defend much more reliably before you can start throwing superlatives around about him.

Koscielny, in particular, is probably actually just as good with the ball and going forward, but also a better defender.
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Fair to say, we completely disagree on this matter so we'll leave it here. You're wrong though ;)
 
ManniKaltz said:
At the risk of being accused of being an arrogant cnut: I know he will stay. :cool:
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I wouldnt call you that pal but i would say its a foolish statement to make.

Anything can happen when the money on offer is obscene - both in terms of transfer fee and wages....and most importantly the agent % cut.
 
LonelyFire said:
I wouldnt call you that pal but i would say its a foolish statement to make.

Anything can happen when the money on offer is obscene - both in terms of transfer fee and wages....and most importantly the agent % cut.
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Sorry, pal, but my post is not foolish but evidence-based.

I suggest though that for today we agree to disgree on that topic and wait for the end of the transfer window. :angel:
 
ManniKaltz said:
Cool! I've won already but for the fun of it, let's pretend it's an open scenario. We'll check on him at the latest in early Sep when the window is closed. Be prepared for Hummels still being at BVB. :angel:
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Nah, I was going to say that i'll be the one who bets that he's at Dortmund, you can be the one that thinks he'll leave ;)
 
RedSky said:
Nah, I was going to say that i'll be the one who bets that he's at Dortmund, you can be the one that thinks he'll leave ;)
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:D Did I phrase my proposal wrongly? Of course Hummels will play next season for Dortmund, the very thought him moving this summer is even more far-fetched than as if Reus were allowed to leave: Fantastic click-generating story for the media but far from reality.
 
ManniKaltz said:
Sorry, pal, but my post is not foolish but evidence-based.

I suggest though that for today we agree to disgree on that topic and wait for the end of the transfer window. :angel:
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Fwiw im not saying i disagree with you - im saying anyone who says for definite one way or the other is only guessing.

Money talks. Its that simple.
 
Ruht said:
I suggest you let up. Links are bound to appear every week or so, do you have the strength to continue? :D
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:lol: Indeed I feel sometimes like Don Quixote but have a lot of stamina.

Isn't the beauty of this forum that you get more insights into clubs and players from different leagues by those who follow them more closely? In various threads of the forum Sphaero and others have shared so much about Dortmund and Hummels that those who are really interested could put statements like the ones in the Mirror/Telegraph into a realistic perspective.

OTOH, the forum is funniest when muppetry is in full bloom, the more farfetched, the better. ;)
 
I've just read a Telegraph article with him ruling out a United move this summer, but it could happen in the future. I suppose there's plenty of examples of players coming out with stuff like that only to end up moving though.
 
Shark said:
I've just read a Telegraph article with him ruling out a United move this summer, but it could happen in the future. I suppose there's plenty of examples of players coming out with stuff like that only to end up moving though.
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If we drop a 50m bid on BVB I suspect that tune might rapidly change.
I feel that we can get the players we want, the real question is are the Glazers willing to break the bank on the players LVG requires?
Time will tell.
 
Brightonian said:
I rate him, but I definitely don't think he's the quite top bracket signing people think he is. As many have pointed out, he seems to make one serious screamer every game, and his lack of pace could cost him in the PL.

Having lost Vidic and Ferdinand, I'd take Hummels into our ranks without a second thought. But I wouldn't expect him to be a million miles ahead of our current three - he'd be thrown into the mix to fight for his place.

Anyway, I'm not sure he'll move. If I was him, an offer from Barca is the only one I'd seriously consider and I'd probably leave it another year to see how their imminent reshaping goes first.
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I personally find that such general statements are not worth much, if you can not back it up with some evidence. It should be easy to state at least a dozen scenes per season for a player, who made 30+ (often 40+) games per season. You can safe yourself the troubles, though, because in four of his last five seasons you won´t find them.

I get where this undeserved reputation (outside of Germany) is coming from, though. In his whole career he had one rather poor season (at least for his own standarts) and this was the season, when the International focus was the highest, the season when Dortmund reached the CL-Final. Another point is his less successful career in the national team so far, which has far more reasons than his personal skill set, though.

His 2012/2013 season did not display his general ability, though. It was simply what he himself, the club, the supporters, the press and the experts called it: An off season. A season when he simply could not reach top form consistently. However, Hummels is already around for a while. The 2012/2013 season was preceded by two strong (2009/2010;2010/2011) and one world class season (2011/2012) and more importantly followed by another world class one. These were seasons, when you could count major blunders per season on one hand.

Hummels clearly rose from his slump in the last season and regained his defensive stability. Up until his injury in November 2013 he was on top or near the top in every statistic in the Bundesliga and he came back even stronger in March 2014. I personally rate him as the best CB in the last three months. He was that good. Best player against Real Madrid (taking both games into account) and Bayern Munich in both the league and cup final. His and Reus´ return were the main reasons for Dortmund´s strong form at the end of the season and why we could turn such a difficult season into a very good one in terms of results.

To see his influence in terms of structure, organisation and general defensive stability you just need to compare a game of Dortmund with and without him last season. The difference he made for Dortmund was gigantic. It actually has gotten to a point, where it is really dangerous, because of how hard it is to replace him. The guy is at the age of 25 the institution of Dortmund´s defense: the undisputed leader. The most inlfuential defender Dortmund have had since Matthias Sammer and Klopp´s most important player. I refuse to believe that a player could become so valuable and important for a top team, if he would be prone to make major mistakes every game.


You can write off everything in this post as bias and I admit that I´m biased towards him to an extend just like every supporter would be. However, I also watched every official game of him since he began to wear our colours. I have seen him grow into a lead player and world class defender from the days when he build the leagues youngest CB pair with Subotic to the present, where he is Dortmund´s unofficial captain in pretty much every game (aside the games he actually wore the badge). That does not make him the perfect CB, because he does have deficits in pace compared to some other top class defender. He makes up for that, though.
 
I'll shave off my public hair if he moves anywhere this window and girls dig my smooth curlies.
 
It would be great to have him here. Hummels is one of the few defenders who can pass the ball very well or even drive it forward. So I think he can become a very good defensive midfielder. That might help him avoid the numerous injuries that seem to hamper him from time to time. But as long as Dortmund do not find adequate replacements, he would be playing center back and that is obviously his best position.
IIRC, he was very good in Euro 2012. He made a good impact on me with his allround performances and I have rated him since then as one of the best of the new generation of defenders.
 
Putting him in midfield would probably increase his injury rate considering its the most highly contested part of the pitch in every match. Hes a defender and should always stay that way. We all saw how useless Rio was in being played as a DM when we were desperate.
 
ManUtd43vr said:
It would be great to have him here. Hummels is one of the few defenders who can pass the ball very well or even drive it forward. So I think he can become a very good defensive midfielder. That might help him avoid the numerous injuries that seem to hamper him from time to time. But as long as Dortmund do not find adequate replacements, he would be playing center back and that is obviously his best position.
IIRC, he was very good in Euro 2012. He made a good impact on me with his allround performances and I have rated him since then as one of the best of the new generation of defenders.
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He'd be even more injured as our DMs make the most kilometers.

Besides, Hummels ruled a move to defensive midfield out many times.

Since he's one of the strongest and critical active players in the football world, not afraid by confrontation, chances to see him in that role are close to zero. As is a move to any other club this summer. :D
 
Just read through the last few pages and it seems the Caf really prefers athletes over football players these days. The number of great players who are called not good enough by some of the fans on here because they supposedly lack pace is insane. I mean, even in his weaker seasons Hummels' mistakes weren't because a lack of pace or because he misread the game constantly. He just had a few too many brainfarts for a while, lacked concentration a bit too often (at a time when he himself admitted that he felt burned out in an interview), but it looks like he's back on track to become an outstanding defender (and I really mean 'defender' here, not someone who's decent at defending and makes up for his flaws with his contribution in the build-up).
 
Agent_Edward :lol:

BTW I think failing to gets Hummels, we might as well try to extract Sokratis. He's a top quality defender and even though he's been there for one season Dortmund might just be persuaded by a substantial offer.
 
Balu said:
Just read through the last few pages and it seems the Caf really prefers athletes over football players these days. The number of great players who are called not good enough by some of the fans on here because they supposedly lack pace is insane. I mean, even in his weaker seasons Hummels' mistakes weren't because a lack of pace or because he misread the game constantly. He just had a few too many brainfarts for a while, lacked concentration a bit too often (at a time when he himself admitted that he felt burned out in an interview), but it looks like he's back on track to become an outstanding defender (and I really mean 'defender' here, not someone who's decent at defending and makes up for his flaws with his contribution in the build-up).
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Personally, my doubts with him have nothing to do with athleticism. If anything I think he's good physically. His problem is the tendency to make mistakes in big matches which you mention. I'd be a bit worried that it's not just a phase or to do with burnout. He's had that tendency for as long as I've watched him.

I also think that as good on the ball as he is, that quality gets exaggerated because he gets so much freedom to do it at Dortmund. The team defends from the front so vigorously that it takes the pressure to actually defend off the centre-backs, and it's part of the system that he have to freedom to stride forward and find a pass. I think if Evans had been first choice in a system like that for a few years he'd have just as much of a reputation for being good on the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I rate him, he's a superb player. But I don't think he's as far ahead of our boys as he's reputed to be, and I think he might struggle to shine in the PL.
 
Balu said:
Just read through the last few pages and it seems the Caf really prefers athletes over football players these days. The number of great players who are called not good enough by some of the fans on here because they supposedly lack pace is insane. I mean, even in his weaker seasons Hummels' mistakes weren't because a lack of pace or because he misread the game constantly. He just had a few too many brainfarts for a while, lacked concentration a bit too often (at a time when he himself admitted that he felt burned out in an interview), but it looks like he's back on track to become an outstanding defender (and I really mean 'defender' here, not someone who's decent at defending and makes up for his flaws with his contribution in the build-up).
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I'm with you on this, it's a nice addition but for midfielders and defenders especially, reading the game and having 'a good football brain' can do so much

You only need to look at the likes of Figo, Mersacker in the last world cup etc to see that pace isn't the be all and end all

There's a guy I play with, he's not the fastest or quickest, but he's everywhere because he can read the game so well, you never get a second when he's around
 
Mainoldo said:
Except Loic Remy would just run straight through them. Love him as a defender but feel he is far to slow for a top premierleague team.
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You do realise he plays in one of the most progressive types of defensive in Europe? Dortmund use a very high line which allows them to play the way they do otherwise there would be huge gaps between defence and midfield. He's an excellent ball playing centre back great in 1v1 duels and building attacks from the back, speed isn't a weakness he has unfortunately every team who plays with a high line is always vulnerable to quick counters and balls behind the defence both of which usually rely on the opposition having pace so the CB's in these sides get slagged off due to the higher amount of mistakes they make compared to the CB's like John Terry who don't go beyond the 18 yard box and make clearances all day.

Look at what happened to John Terry when AVB was the manager and he tried to play with a high line, he was humiliated on a weekly basis until AVB got sacked. If you want to sit deep absorb pressure and counter attack football then sure go for someone else but all you read throughout these forums is fans who wish we could play like Madrid/Dortmund/Bayern and to do that you simply have to have athletic/mobile/technical CB's happy to play 1v1 who allow the side to play higher up the pitch and can for the most part deal with the quick counters and balls over the top. Yes they will make mistakes but looking at the bigger picture every style of play has pros and cons.
 
Balu said:
Just read through the last few pages and it seems the Caf really prefers athletes over football players these days. The number of great players who are called not good enough by some of the fans on here because they supposedly lack pace is insane. I mean, even in his weaker seasons Hummels' mistakes weren't because a lack of pace or because he misread the game constantly. He just had a few too many brainfarts for a while, lacked concentration a bit too often (at a time when he himself admitted that he felt burned out in an interview), but it looks like he's back on track to become an outstanding defender (and I really mean 'defender' here, not someone who's decent at defending and makes up for his flaws with his contribution in the build-up).
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I'm actually a little shocked reading through here and seeing people say he's just decent or hey would prefer someone faster, he'd be the perfect defender for us. As sphaero said, he had one off season because of injuries and just poor form but other then that, he's been a top class defender pretty much always. Such an intelligent player and reader of the game, and obviously his on the ball skills is a great bonus for a defender. Don't think there's any chance on getting him this summer but he'd be a dream signing, if ever a center back could be one.
 
Balu said:
Just read through the last few pages and it seems the Caf really prefers athletes over football players these days. The number of great players who are called not good enough by some of the fans on here because they supposedly lack pace is insane. I mean, even in his weaker seasons Hummels' mistakes weren't because a lack of pace or because he misread the game constantly. He just had a few too many brainfarts for a while, lacked concentration a bit too often (at a time when he himself admitted that he felt burned out in an interview), but it looks like he's back on track to become an outstanding defender (and I really mean 'defender' here, not someone who's decent at defending and makes up for his flaws with his contribution in the build-up).
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I am with you here. Always rated Hummels very highly and I think that he would become the best CB in England if he comes here (or in an another English club).
 
He is fantastic, but the one thing that I'm worried about is that he is very often injured. I would also not want us to spend 35 mill or so on a Central defender, I wan't as much as possible invested in another Central midfielder and a winger.
 
Brightonian said:
Personally, my doubts with him have nothing to do with athleticism. If anything I think he's good physically. His problem is the tendency to make mistakes in big matches which you mention. I'd be a bit worried that it's not just a phase or to do with burnout. He's had that tendency for as long as I've watched him.
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We went over this once in this thread and I have yet to see people actually bringing up the scenes which would back up this tendency outside the 2012/2013 season, which Balu references here.

Brightonian said:
I also think that as good on the ball as he is, that quality gets exaggerated because he gets so much freedom to do it at Dortmund. The team defends from the front so vigorously that it takes the pressure to actually defend off the centre-backs, and it's part of the system that he have to freedom to stride forward and find a pass. I think if Evans had been first choice in a system like that for a few years he'd have just as much of a reputation for being good on the ball.
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You think Dortmund´s system reliefs pressure to defend from the CBs? Do you realize how high we defend, effectively increasing the area to cover for our back line? The collective movement and pressing does help with that, but it would be otherwise also suicidal to play like this.

Hummels is allowed to move forward more (effectively switching places with the DM for a short time), but outside of that he is actually one of the defenders in world football, who is allowed the least amount of time on the ball to build up the game. After his amazing 2011/2012 season opposing teams identified his technical and passing skills and instructed their offensive players to man mark him while he build up the game. This was actually a pretty big topic in Germany when it came up, because it was so rare to see this tactical tool being used with such frequency.

And while Evans is a solid and good CB on the ball, there is a clear difference in raw technical ability and vision between him and Hummels. It is Hummels´ most outstanding set of abilites, but also something people like to reduce him on. He is apart of that an absolute solid defender, strong in tackling, intercepting and organising the defense.
 
I see absolutely no chance to get Hummels. A very intelligent player with the right values, loyal and committed to Dortmund. The club has no reason to sell and so they won't let go anybody else they want to keep.
 
If anyone has watched/watches Revenge he is an absolute ringer for Jack Porter. Watching it right now and the resemblance really is something.
 
There has been a bit a talk about a £20M bid for him today.

They are dangling a potential captaincy in from of him as Kehl is retiring:

Borussia Dortmund captain Sebastian Kehl has confirmed it will be his last season with theBundesliga giants.

The 34-year-old holding midfielder will give up his role as the side’s leader at the end of this coming season, which leaves BVB boss with a huge decision to make over who to make his next permanent captain.

Roman Weidenfeller is his current vice-captain but at 33-years-old, Klopp may decide to give the full captaincy to another player.

A potential option is Manchester United transfer target Mats Hummels, who Kehl has been impressed with so far at the World Cup in Brazil.

“Yes, he’s been very strong when he’s played – He can finally show that the criticism of him in the national team is absolutely unfounded,” Kehl told Bild when quizzed about Hummels’ performances in Brazil.

Hummels fits the bill to become BVB captain in many different ways and it would also help Klopp to fend off various offers from sides looking to come in and buy him during the transfer window.

He’s still a very young man at only 25-years-old so he’s got longevity on his side.

Klopp could opt for an older and more experienced player to become his next skipper but Hummels could arguably be playing in the heart of Dortmund’s defence for another ten years.

He also forms part of the spine, which runs through the current BVB team.

He’s a leader at the back, keeping the back four organised and he’s able to see the play moving forward, which allows him to dictate to the midfield and attack because he can see how the play is unfolding.

His contract expires at the end of the 2016/2017 and it’s won’t be a surprise if BVB try and get Hummels to extend that deal at the end of next season.

Dangling the captaincy in front of him along with improving his personal terms only sweetens the deal and makes it more difficult for the German to consider moving away from the club.

Kehl’s exit is a blow because he’s one of Dortmund’s most experienced players but Klopp has a chance to make a sensible decision making Hummels his next captain and if that reduces the chance of Manchester United, or any other side, buying him, he’ll consider it a bonus.
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They can dangle the captaincy infront of him, but we can dangle £150k+ a week infront of him.
 
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