He doesnt have to be a winger if we play Rooney behind RVP. He can still be an AM and we grab our width from elsewhere. We dont have to have wingers for width.
Mata | Mourinho says it's just a Mata of time
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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Either way first or second game, it'll be the true test of his ability via the RedCafe.net assessment.
If the deal is done tomorrow and we play well for an hour or so vs Cardiff I imagine Moyes will give him a run out. That's all very unpredictable though!
Cardiff, maybe off the bench.
Not you
Twitter in any matters related to football. It's filled with shit puns, awful jokes (ROONEY LOOKS LIKE SHREK ROFLOMAO XD) ITK bollocks and about 1% is actual news.
It's the Gary Neville effect. You only to see how our "wingers" have been cutting inside and not tugging the line. Moyes is surely trying to move away from playing with traditional wingers, and playing with a more cultured formation.
Moyes liked to play antisymmetric with Everton, with a traditional winger on one side and an inside forward on the other. It's worked well at Klopp's Dortmund, so hopefully we can replicate something similar.
People have been saying the same thing about Kagawa though. It doesn't work under Moyes. We're too careful and gutless, and Rooney simply isn't a playmaker.
Even if Mata is a better winger(and player) than Kagawa, it's a total waste to play him in another position than straight behind the main striker when we pay nearly 40 million for him. Especially considering that Rooney's level doesn't drop at all when he plays as a lone striker.
People: it's not a crisis to have a player like Rooney or RVP on the bench. If anything, that's what a club of United's stature should be able to do. If we're only gonna cater to egos and throw our biggest names onto the field regardless of general play and results, then we might as well just give up right now. It might work under Fergie, but it will not work under Moyes.
ROFLOMAONot you
Twitter in any matas related to football. It's filled with shit puns, awful jokes (ROONEY LOOKS LIKE SHREK ROFLOMAO XD) ITK bollocks and about 1% is actual news.
He was also pretty average last season under Sir Alex, save a few games.
I did not see it.
It is not fair.
They do not allow us to play.
We were kicked off the park.
All metaphors for won feck all, don't blame me.
Wengerisms - Wengerites
Nearly 90% passing accuracy, the highest number of successful through-balls per game, created several chances, worked harder than most, and had the 4th best goals/assist ratio in the team by quite a large margin, if we go by minutes played.
It's been well established that Fergie really rated Kagawa and thought he had a good first season. But what does that old Scot know...
Strange we are not interest in Ozil yet willing to break the bank for Mata. But signing either one of them would fulfill my deepest muppets wet dream.
Well footy is a game where creativity can flourish and being rigid in thinking about where someone HAS to play doesnt really allow players to express themselves. Our problem right now is that we are too careful and rigid. Having Mata play in this singular role is just continuing along the same lines. Mata is quite capable of handling a number of roles during a game.. The game is very fluid right now, we are closer to the Dutch 1970's total football approach today than we (we being football in general) were 10 years ago.
I think we can quite happily have RVP, Rooney, Mata, Adnan or Kagawa on the pitch at the same time and have it work well.
Zero goals Zero assists, season 13/14
I love how Mad Winger is everywhere, just waiting on someone to mention Kagawa. You could mention Kagawa in a thread about golf, and MW would still pop up and come to his aid. It's amazing.
LEAVE KAGAWA ALONE!
It's not his fault he's been shite, it's because he hasn't played in his favourite position!!! Which is about 10 yards away from where he is actually deployed. And 0 yards away from where he inevitably ends up playing anyway...
Without wanting to be too FM-ish, couldn't you fit RvP, Rooney, Kagawa and Mata into a narrow 4-3-3?
Presumably the first three as an interchanging front three and Mata as the furthest forward of the midfield three?
If we're trying to fit everyone in that might make more sense, no?
Presumably the first three as an interchanging front three and Mata as the furthest forward of the midfield three?
If we're trying to fit everyone in that might make more sense, no?
Exactly! And a big part of that problem is because we keep playing our AMs wide instead of behind the striker where they are significantly better. That's the very reason for why Kagawa is great on the left for Japan, but mediocre for us, even though our team is stronger than Japan's.
Playing with Kagawa/Mata behind the striker is essentially the same as playing with 3 cental midfielders and 1 one striker. Playing with Rooney behind the main striker, is the same as playing with 2 CMs and 2 strikers. It forces us to become more rigid and dependent on width, whether we like it or not.
I don't think we'll ever see that, unless we're behind in a game with only 20 minutes left.
He's just to weak mentally, very sad, Juant Mata this time next week we will have someone un afraid if taking the bull by its horns.
Its like the Spanish Inquisition!
Oh look, Shinji Kagawa
BAAAAAAAAM
DID SOMEBODY SAY SHINJI KAGAWA!!!
Hmm... with a new manager. Coincidence?
We'd be killed with width. The only way I'd get the four on the pitch together would be in a 4-2-3-1.
Mata Rooney Kagawa
van Persie
And I'd still be uneasy with that line up. Leaving a lot of work for our two centre midfield players. Our full backs naturally roam forward too so our defence would be crucified.van Persie
I post about how I want MATA to play as an AM instead of Rooney, using Kagawa as an example of how it's better to play your AMs in the AM position instead of on the wing.
Result: people claim Im only out to defend Kagawa.
Because feck logic
I'd shift Rooney out wide, bench Kagawa and have a more solid midfield three behind them. Carrick and two others should be solid enough to let our fullback help with width. Rooney and Mata can easily play number 10 or further out wide depending on how the game develops and they'll have enough to link up with in all of the midfield and through RvP you'd hope. Plus one of our midfield 3 could be someone like Giggs who can provide a bit of width for a few minutes if it's required.
Something like:
RvP
Rooney Mata
Giggs Fletch
Carrick
Maybe. I realise I've left Januzaj out. Don't kill me.
I dunno ! Tell us what you think.
I'd expect more of an offensive diamond rather than a more 'typical' midfield diamond:
de Gea
Rafael Vidic Evans Evra
Fletcher Carrick
Rooney
Mata Januzaj
van Persie
Rafael Vidic Evans Evra
Fletcher Carrick
Rooney
Mata Januzaj
van Persie
Kagawa replaces any of the three behind van Persie (mainly Rooney when he likely leaves in the Summer), they can all interchange and play as a flat three, or try to play out wide on occasion. I think this is the way forward with Valencia and Nani being our from the bench options if the games looks as if it needs 'traditional' width. Once we get a younger left back, we can probably rely on enough width from the full back positions. I think it has potential for our first-team next season, as Evans is no stranger to LB, Carrick can drop into CB, and Fletcher can slot in at RB when one (or both) of the full backs has gone forward, with Rooney/Kagawa staying wary of counter attacks by dropping deeper if they can't find the space to get into a good attack position.
Think it has some potential.
Other option is to play Jones or Fellaini and have a flat three in central midfield, with two of the four 'number 10's' behind RvP, probably in the more difficult away games and against the very top teams at Home.
Antonio Valencia and Danny Welbeck have improved upon their output from last season under new management.
Mata day has been a let down...I hope Vidal day is better.
I can't fecking wait. I can't believe we have our own Spanish wizard now.
I remember thinking "feck, what a volley" when he scored against us. I was in more awe than disappointment at the time - it was just a sweet hit.
Scored some nice ones against us hasn't he
Juan Mata. fecking hell.
Yeah, we'd need a very specific type of cm to make any of this work.
Still, other teams sacrifice width without getting slaughtered. How do more traditionally narrow teams usually operate?
I can't fecking wait. I can't believe we have our own Spanish wizard now.
I remember thinking "feck, what a volley" when he scored against us. I was in more awe than disappointment at the time - it was just a sweet hit.
Scored some nice ones against us hasn't he
Juan Mata. fecking hell.
Going back to that, I just noticed that Torres was more focused on starting on Van Persie rather than watching Mata's freekick go in. What a fecking twat
Welbeck and Valencia will be ahead of Kagawa in pecking order for substitutions and rightly so.
Shinji offers nothing that the Rooney, Mata and Januzaj don't already give you, whereas Welbeck and Valencia create a counterattacking threat that's completely nonexistant in most of the hypothetical line-ups I've seen in this thread.
Shinji offers nothing that the Rooney, Mata and Januzaj don't already give you, whereas Welbeck and Valencia create a counterattacking threat that's completely nonexistant in most of the hypothetical line-ups I've seen in this thread.
-------------De Gea
-----Smallin---Jones---Evans
Rafael----------------------Evra
-------------Carrick---
---------Rooney---Januzaj
--------------Mata
-------------- RVP
Or something...
-----Smallin---Jones---Evans
Rafael----------------------Evra
-------------Carrick---
---------Rooney---Januzaj
--------------Mata
-------------- RVP
Or something...
Carrick.City and Chelsea operate with high energy physical centre midfield players and usually deploy at least one more defensive minded full back. From what I gather anyway.
That's the thing though, as far as substitutions go, that's completely correct.
But if for example, there was an injury, or Rooney left, and the new system and style of the team was to include van Persie as a lone striker with three players who play more infield than out wide, then it is Kagawa who comes in, or Jones, or Fellaini (or even Giggs). Valencia doesn't fit it as he's a winger, and Welbeck would generally play right up top or on the wing as well. He did play a fine no.10 role against Madrid but that has yet to be seen in other games for a while and if he has, it definitely hasn't been as effective. He also still wouldn't fit unless we played more of a flat three behind RvP, not the diamond option.
Kagawa is a replacement for the same system when we play our plan A option, for injury, resting a player, or if we don't have all four players in question come next term. Valencia, Welbeck, Nani, Hernandez change us to a more counter-attacking game with width, which I would class more as in-game changes.
In this hypothetical new system idea, anyway.
Hey, Carrick doesn't need any partners, he can take on a 2 or 3 man midfield by himself.
Evidently.
Chelsea need a high energy midfielders to fill the gaps that their pacy front-line create when they stretch the play. If we plan to use slow-pokes up top, we'd need extremely technical midfielders to keep possession in tight spaces.
1. Offensive fullbacks.
2. Lots of off-the-ball movement, defensively and offensively.
3. Central midfielders who are very good at defending and keeping the ball under pressure.
4. The player behind the main striker is an offensive playmaker, rather than a deep striker. This is in order to keep speed, control and unpredictability in the attacking third, to better make use of the narrow formation and intense off-the-ball running.
If we change to a formation like the one below, then I think we can pull off all the four points above. Evra might be a weak link, but he'll do for now. I still think he can attack fairly well.
-------------- DDG -----------
Rafael - Smalling - Evans - Evra
------- Carrick - Fletcher -----
-- Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa ---
---------- Rooney(?) ---------
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