I hate the idea of another 8 who's really a 10 replacing Eriksen.
Mason Mount | Confirmed
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Ten Hag isn’t some manager that uses players just in 1 position either.
He will use Kane at ST & CAM.
He will use Mount at RW, RAM, CAM, CM, CF and maybe even on the left.
He will use Rice at RCB, CDM and CM depending on what he needs.
Fair! I am curious to what the plan is, my big concern is we just don't have that 'metronome' in midfield to help calm us.
Not DvB, he's done in the PL I think, but long term that could be Sancho's best position
That’s my point as well. We need to sign players in all those positions. Why should we waste resources on Mount now?
We can sell players to raise funds too, you know?
To a varying degree of difficulty to sell:
- Maguire
- Telles
- Bailly
- Henderson
- McTominay
- Fred (?)
- Elanga
and possibly more
Even with him on the pitch we have struggled far too much this season. He is not good enough to play CM especially for a team that has aspirations to compete for titles.
Let me put it this way, if we are going to buy Mount and Rabiot to replace McFred, I would regard this as considerable improvement in terms of squad depth/bench options/quality. Truth is the drop of quality in midfield is huge when we are not playing Casemiro or Eriksen this season, we really need to address that in summer. And point is, they could both come cheap, and we could spend larger part of our funds on other positions we needed to reinforce badly.
He is the jack of all trades, master of none.
The fan base see that he isn’t a master, so don’t value him. The managers value him because they can use the jack of all trades in literally 1000x different tactical ways in and out of possession.
Ten Hag is a tactical beast - he wants the jack of all trades to give him the tactical variability.
Ten Haag obviously wants a box to box 8. Not a DM. Thats why he bought and plays Eriksen who has turned out to be a bit too limited. That removes the likes of Caicedo and Rice. He also wants to add goals and assists from more sources which eliminates the likes of Kovacic. Yes Mount didnt get many this season but he got 11 goals and 10 assists the season before so he is capable of it.
If you look at Man City they have a Rodri and Gundogen who gets 8 goals. MacAlister gets 10 goals next to Caicedo. Xhaka got 7 goals and 7 assists. Mount can match and beat them all for goals and assists.
So the question who is better than Mount in that role. Not who is a better player because Caicedo and Rice are better but they don't fit. Mac Allister maybe but I dont see much difference between them and Mac Allister would cost more and is Argentinian which doesn't help with home grown quota. There is a reason who a lot of teams want him. There are not a lot of players with his all round ability. Sure he's not a sexy player with stand out attributes. But is Gundogen? Is Xhaka? He will do a job and be a critical cog in the system.
If you look at Man City they have a Rodri and Gundogen who gets 8 goals. MacAlister gets 10 goals next to Caicedo. Xhaka got 7 goals and 7 assists. Mount can match and beat them all for goals and assists.
So the question who is better than Mount in that role. Not who is a better player because Caicedo and Rice are better but they don't fit. Mac Allister maybe but I dont see much difference between them and Mac Allister would cost more and is Argentinian which doesn't help with home grown quota. There is a reason who a lot of teams want him. There are not a lot of players with his all round ability. Sure he's not a sexy player with stand out attributes. But is Gundogen? Is Xhaka? He will do a job and be a critical cog in the system.
The first thing they are doing is signing Mac alister and not Mount. Even though mount will be cheaper and will be the far easier transfer to finish than Mac allister. Also there aren’t many rumours regarding Liverpool to Mount.
Let’s calm down for a bit and stop putting people on a pedestal before they deserve it. He is a good manager but has proved nothing yet.
This shows all you know about football.
Exactly. For a cheaper price I’d have him as a squad option. For 55m and wages, it’s going to cost us another crucial transfer.
I never said he is a champions league winner?
I said he is a tactical beast -
Examples:
he uses strikers like Weghorst at CAM.
Sancho at LM, CAM and RM.
Shaw at LCB.
AWB as inverted fullbacks.
Bruno at CAM and CM.
Mctominay at CAM even CF if I remember.
Casemiro at CB during a game if I remember too.
Dalot both at LB and RB.
Ten Hag is very flexible with his tactics and how he uses his players.
He values the Jack of all trades.
I can only
How very condescending of you. A friendly word of advice, tone it down a notch.
Caicedo and Rice do fit though, they're two of the most all rounded 6s on the planet. They have world class potential as a 6 and can cover Casemiro long term, but also have the passing, dribbling and shooting ability to play higher. Rice and Caicedo will get you goals and assists if they play a more advanced position I'm sure of it, they also have the capability of freeing up Casemiro to contribute even more than he is doing at the moment. For me Caicedo for £80 million after signing a new contract, compared to Mount's £55 with a year left, is a much better value deal. If we can afford both, along with Kane, a new GK and RB this summer then fair dos, but utd's financials aren't the prettiest currently so I'm not hugely confident we can.
Alright may be the last one was a bit much. I apologise for that but the poster was basically counting goals Rodri and Gundogan scored. Like that’s their job.
I said it before but he's so good, he's the only player I've ever known have a video titled "What does Mason Mount actually do?".
That should send alarm bells ringing.
Did you even read the post or any of his stats? They are literally the opposite of that. He is a player who is incredibly effective with his passing and moving with the ball, while being very good at pressing and would give us better defensive balance. He is more press resistant than most of our mids, even though it's not a huge strength of his.
He isn't Frenkie de Jong, being someone capable of dictating from deep or someone who slows the game down. But he provides a lot of what we need in addition to combining the good of what Fred and Eriksen provide. So given that we can't spend 140m on the perfect midfielder, it's a very good step in the right direction if we get him.
None of those of are tactical decisions apart from the wan bissaka one. They are decisions borne out of lack of quality players or firefighting due to injuries. If we had competent striker, LCB or CM, none of those would have happened.
this is what I’m crying about wed need competent players for the 11 first and then we can afford to sign squad value options like Mount.
That’s not a very high bar you know. We don’t need to sign the perfect midfielder but at least spend money on a competent central midfielder who is a specialist in that position? Is that too much to ask?
Okay if that’s what you think - you don’t then see why the jack of all trades player would be useful for that?
Mount can and has played - LW, LF, LM, CF, CAM, LCM, RCM, RW, RF, RM - whilst being able to play every position at least to a 7.5/10 standard depending on what and where his manager wants.
At the same time - he is one of the most energetic players that can be the main player of a press whilst also being very creative, technical and has a great finishing ability.
If you don’t see that as useful to a tactically flexible manager - then fair enough - though I’m not sure you can talk to others about their knowledge of football when the managers absolutely love Mason Mount.
"Player has 90th percentile for progressive passing and carries, excellent defensive stats, 24, reasonable price", but that's not a competent central midfielder? He's an 8 or a 10. He's capable of both to a high level. What the feck do you want? You're just bitching because he's English and you lump him in with a certain type of player and disagree with any stat because you have a preconceived notion of what he is, which is far from the truth of what he actually is.
Ten Hag has his plan, and Mount is a big improvement on what we have. You want the perfect signing for every single gap we have? First of all, we don't have 500m to spend, second of all, the perfect player for what we need isn't available. So you adapt and improve with what is realistic.
Gundogan was literally City's top scorer in their league winning 20/21 season and is a player Pep has compared to Scholes in terms of his ability to sniff out goals in the box. And he scored a handful of key goals within just the last few weeks. Goals are very much part of his job.
We can’t compete for the top if we don’t have specialists who can do what the coach expects them to do. It has been apparent for years that we lack a central midfielder. No jack of all trades is going to do the job of a central midfielder. Why is this so hard to understand? PL is going to to get even more cutthroat next season with Newcastle joining. We can’t afford to make any more mistakes wasting resources on players who aren’t going to improve us.
You are saying mount can play all those positions whether that true I don’t know. There was a post in this thread that he primarily occupies the left side attacking midfield. We already have Sancho who seem to be “capable” of playing a new position every game.
You may want to look at the transfer tweet automated thread. Mount has been mentioned as a priority target for klopp plenty of times.
Our coach is adamant about competing for titles and he is prioritising Mount because he’s a very good player
I’ve already said in this thread I’d be extremely happy with Rice or Bellingham. The transfer window has just begun why do we need to adjust so soon? We aren’t linked with any other midfielders. You agree that we don’t have a huge transfer budget okay to spend 55m on a player we don’t need.
I came across some analysis the other day (no idea what specific period were the data based on), basically if we compare him to some other top midfielders (AM) in the game, the result is quite surprising. Maybe we can have a idea why scouts/managers rate him highly there, he is very much comparable to other top midfielders around.
Cross per 90/accuracy %:
1. De Bruyne - 5.22/35.87
2. Bruno - 2.77/33.16
3. Mount - 2.05/34.09
4. Gavi -2.2/30.17
5. Musiala - 0.84/21.88
(comparable to Bruno/Gavi)
Non-penalty goals per 90/xG/Shots on target %:
1. De Bruyne - 0.43/0.25/38.17
2. Musiala - 0.36/0.27/42.86
3. Mount - 0.23/0.29/31.71
4. Bruno - 0.25/0.24/30.58
5. Gavi - 0.05/0.09/28.13
(comparable to Bruno, which is surprising)
Dribbling per 90/success dribble/progressive run per 90
1. Grealish - 5.44/65.14/5.57
2. Musiala - 8.12/55.1/2.87
3. De Bruyne - 3.49/57.98/2.45
4. Gavi - 3.32/49.14/1.76
5. Mount - 2.49/49.53/1.84
(apparently not his strength, but he is quite similar to Gavi there, which isn't bad)
Long pass per 90/accuracy %
1. Bruno - 5.61/59
2. De Bruyne - 3.8/61
3. Mount - 1.59/70
4. Gavi - 1.78/61
5. Musiala - 0.74/57
(he is actually the most accurate long passer out there, but not doing it as many as other top long passer, can be good or bad thing)
Pass per 90/accuracy %/forward pass
1. Bruno - 47/78/14
2. De Bruyne - 46/77/13
3. Gavi - 42/87/9
4. Musiala - 37/84/8
5. Mount - 37/83/10
(comparable to Gavi and Musiala, which isn't bad, again his accuracy is quite good)
Assist per 90/xA/accurate through pass
1. De Bruyne - 0.41/0.3/39.83
2. Mount - 0.34/0.23/33
3. Musiala - 0.28/0.18/38
4. Bruno - 0.27/0.26/31
5. Gavi - 0.15/0.09/44
(quite a surprising one, I didn't know when he was that good)
Successful def action per 90/duel won/interception per 90
1. Gavi - 8.46/52.88/3.19
2. Bruno - 6.73/56.72/3.03
3. Mount - 6.37/61.87/2.33
4. Musiala - 6.04/63.24/2.82
5. De Bruyne - 3.58/53.42/1.89
(as expected, he is good at defending from AM perspective)
I look at them more than enough and there hasn’t been any links to Liverpool the past few days but plenty about finalising Mac Allister deal first.
Ornstein on TOTD said he communicated to Arsenal, Liverpool, and Chelsea we are his favourite
Fair enough. That’s the only thing that can’t be discussed. EtH has earned his right to demand players and if he wants Mount then it’s going to happen no matter how much I cry about it here.
Good post, I don't rate Mount as highly as others do but when you see managers like Tuchel, Potter playing him regularly (With their 101 options) and then managers like Klopp, EtH trying to sign him it's obvious that as a casual viewer I'm missing something.
If we sign him, hopefully he will be worth the money as he will take big percent of available funds this summer.
@redIndianDevil
Looks at these stats. His stats are good as the specialists whilst being able to play in literally any position not defensive.
He is a good player whilst playing in multiple positions.
Watch the video - they tell you where he has played in CL’s and everything whilst putting good stats and performances in multiple positions.
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Me and Ten Haag.
If Ten Hag wants him then thats good enough for me if we sign him.
May not be my first choice personally but Im not in charge and he must want him for a reason.
May not be my first choice personally but Im not in charge and he must want him for a reason.
Completely agree.
And when you play like that where you want your two interior midfielders to push high with a pivot behind them. Then not only is it a requirement for the interiors to have the ability to progress play but also have the ability to resist the counter upon losing the ball by pressing effectively. Our current players aren't good at all when it comes to pressing from the front imo. And if you can't effectively press/defend from the front, you will lose the initiative to opponent's who have physical and athletic players who will have the potential to hurt us in transition. The press high up the pitch has to be enforced.
I think Mount will be a good signing and he won't necessarily be popular amongst many fans. But if ten Hag can strengthen the back 5 and have a goalkeeper who can take advantage of being the free man in the build up phase against the opponent's press, then we can raise the defensive line and play the game in the opponent's half. I think another midfielder will also be sought and potentially a RB. And from ten Hag's quote below, it seems like a keeper will brought to the club.
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