Poor man's Cleverley.
We need to keep Fred and have the new Anderson-Cleverley partnership
We need to keep Fred and have the new Anderson-Cleverley partnership
Mason Mount | Confirmed
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
- Status
It seems we will be playing a proper 433 now with Casemiero holding to break up play.
We would be attacking and defending in 2 blocks around him. Shaw, mount and rashford on the left and Dalot, bruno and antony on the right. Bruno's numbers might drop a little but it'll make us a very effective team.
If we get Onana, then him and Martinez will be very adept at the counter press and it'll be far more in the mould that ETH wants than what we have.
We will need a back up for Casemiro though, as Mctominay is just not good enough and a lot will depend on the trio on left and right to press well to ensure that we don't get overloaded in midfield by the opposition.
We would be attacking and defending in 2 blocks around him. Shaw, mount and rashford on the left and Dalot, bruno and antony on the right. Bruno's numbers might drop a little but it'll make us a very effective team.
If we get Onana, then him and Martinez will be very adept at the counter press and it'll be far more in the mould that ETH wants than what we have.
We will need a back up for Casemiro though, as Mctominay is just not good enough and a lot will depend on the trio on left and right to press well to ensure that we don't get overloaded in midfield by the opposition.
Very good (young) player for an okish price
Mount’s a great signing and improves our first XI a lot. We now have four quality midfielders that can play football, including Eriksen if he gets back to early season form from last year when he has less games to play.
I would rank McT as ok as a fifth choice but not as fourth/first reserve midfielder. I would rather sell him and have a younger developing player in the role, but I am ok with him as a backup, part of the problem last year was the number of games Casemiro missed. If you are using McT for lower pressure games with Casemiro on the bench if needed that works for me. Long term would be nice to improve our No 5 midfielder but we have higher priorities for now.
I don’t like Fred as a backup he is just too unpredictable and his off day performances are killers. If we get 15 to 20 M for him it’s great business for everyohe.
All in all I‘m very happy with the signing a good player at an ok price that makes the whole operation feel more solid.
I would rank McT as ok as a fifth choice but not as fourth/first reserve midfielder. I would rather sell him and have a younger developing player in the role, but I am ok with him as a backup, part of the problem last year was the number of games Casemiro missed. If you are using McT for lower pressure games with Casemiro on the bench if needed that works for me. Long term would be nice to improve our No 5 midfielder but we have higher priorities for now.
I don’t like Fred as a backup he is just too unpredictable and his off day performances are killers. If we get 15 to 20 M for him it’s great business for everyohe.
All in all I‘m very happy with the signing a good player at an ok price that makes the whole operation feel more solid.
We didn't bid £80m because we deemed his value with one year left as lower
Would have thought that'd be obvious.
Chelsea valued him around £80m, that's was there price bracket and actually wanted £70m even with his contractual issues.
No one would have paid that due to his contract running out, but if he wasn't due a renewal it stands to reason he'd easily meet £80m.
We could sell Lingard, we just opted not too.
And are you really comparing a bit part squad player at United with Chelsea's player of the season the past two years? Wasn't a brilliant season for him but he was still one of Chelsea's better performers.
There's no logic in that comparison.
I just don’t understand why we would buy an attacking mid and try to play him in a box to box role. Why not buy specialist players for the positions we need? Utterly confused where he would be playing and why did we even buy him
Have a look at Ten Hag's 4-3-3 at Ajax. He'll essentially be playing the VDB role which he'll suit very well I think. Just a shame the actual VDB didn't seem to suit it very well here
Agreed. Bruno-Mount-Casemiro is not a balanced midfield not least against the top 6 teams. Caicedo would have made more sense. But I am no expert...
ETH played similar setup in Ajax - Alvarez as holding midfielder and two attacking mids coming through. His fullbacks also had the ability to tuck in and overload the midfield.
A number 8 isn’t box to box
The signing doesn't make any sense unless we sign Onana or another GK that can play out from the back outside their own area. If we stick with the current GK options Mount will be a massive flop.
Just because it worked at Ajax doesn’t mean it’ll work in the England. At least we should have given that sort of formation with similar personnel a proper go before dropping 55 mil on it.
What if we get slaughtered in the first few games and forced to change, then what? How will we accommodate Bruno, Rashford and Mount in the same lineup?
To an extent it's supposed to be unbalanced, because you'll be moving a fullback into midfield to support the DM.
Similarly, Rice/Havertz/Odegaard and Fabinho/Mac Allister/Soboszlai don't strike me as overly balanced midfields either.
Onana looks nailed on to happen even then I’m not sure if Cas-Bruno-Mount will work here’s hoping ETH knows what he’s doing
We did. We've been playing that exact shape increasingly often in the second half of the season just gone, with Eriksen/Fred pushing high alongside Bruno and a fullback tucking into midfield.
As for it not working in England, it already has as other teams have succesfully set up in that shape.
It won't in the way you're thinking about it in our current system, but with a sweeper keeper it will work because we'll have the ball in the opposition half in tight spaces a lot more. Bruno will probably end up paying more on the right side as a wide right playmaker, not a winger.
Fred is different to Mount, he’s much more conservative than Mount. And with Eriksen the team wasn’t working. We looked unbalanced and on the back foot every time. Zero control in the midfield.
Am I the only one who finds this whole numbers discussion completely pointless?
For many years now the game has moved away from this kind of pigeon holing, and yet this kind of arguments come up more often than ever.
For many years now the game has moved away from this kind of pigeon holing, and yet this kind of arguments come up more often than ever.
Which role is Bruno playing then? Frenkie?Have a look at Ten Hag's 4-3-3 at Ajax. He'll essentially be playing the VDB role which he'll suit very well I think. Just a shame the actual VDB didn't seem to suit it very well here
When we played with Casemiro-Bruno, eriksen or fred were always pushed up. This midfield might not cut it against the top 6 away from home, but it should see us get more points against the lower teams. Especially as we fail to create much outside of bruno.
I'm explaining the rationale behind it not whether it will work or not.
Against some of the teams that sit deep won't be a bad option. Against good teams most likely we will get overran.
It not fully working is partly why we've signed Mount, who upgrades our first eleven in that regard.
Because Mount is better technically and offensively than Fred (you don't want a conservative player in that position, as they're there to be an attacking midfielder) but provides far more pressing and physicality than Eriksen is capable off. If you want that #8/#10 hybrid, it's an ideal fit.
That doesn't mean we don't also have to improve elsewhere. Personally I'd particularly like to see us improve RB if they're going to be the ones inverting into CM. But it's one step at a time.
And even then it still might not work. But you seemed confused as to what the plan was and why we opted for an attacking midfielder, so now you know.
The Bruno role
I know what the plan is. The point is the plan won’t work and I hope we have a backup plan.
Is there any other top team that is so scared of the opposition that they fall back and play some double pivot, defensive midfield?
What’s with the chicken shit mentality?
Why isn't this done yet? I thought Chelsea needed it done by today to make their books look prettier?
Reported to have his medical on Monday. I guess they can backdate the payment if everything goes right.
My bad, it seemed like you didn't understand the plan given you didn't know we'd already been playing this shape. And were asking why we signed an attacking midfielder even though this shape requires us to sign an attacking midfielder. But if you actually understood all that then that's great.
Maybe the box-to-box type player that you’re envisioning we isn’t the profile ETH wants?
Mount seems to be a player that ETH has admired for a very long time, even since his time at Ajax, surely has a very clear idea of what hewill bring to his set-up.
Besides, just looking at defensive actions, Mount-Fernandes-Casemiro outperform Citys and Arsenals respective first choice midfield compositions.
True or at least equal to, the problem is the back up. No back up for Casemiro, no real backup for Bruno unless Amad fills that role and Eriksen ( fine a fottballer as he is) does not have the legs anymore to play for 90 minutes. Hopefully Mainoo will push on next season as a realistic back up for Mount
Eriksen has the legs to be a back up for Bruno and Mount. It’s the perfect role for him now.
I agree to a point, he can fall in for either of them for a while but if one of the has a long term injury we can't rely on him to play a couple of games per week for any lenght of time
I think we’ll get lost in the trees if we start recruiting in case of long term injuries to be honest.
And I'm noy saying we should necessarily buy someone as we have other priorities, and so I hope that Mainoo gets more playing time this year
Tbh Klopps pool at its heyday played with a more defensive minded midfield that would contain the opposition and cut the options for counters considering they played with two high flying fullbacks.
Us on the other hand - we don’t have the high flying fullbacks so two attacking mids that can break the lines make sense. I’m just not sure if Mount quality to pull it off.
Fair points and Liverpool will struggle if Fabinho does not recover his form which might be beyond him.
when is his medical scheduled for? I'd like to see this be official soon.
Matt Law reported it is planned for Monday.
Frount
- Status